Ray Bourque meet Dewey

Red Right Ankle

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What a jackass.

Bet he could still have gotten at least 3 targets in the shooting accuracy competition though.
 

The Napkin

wise ass al kaprielian
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year of probation and loses his license for 45 days

Bourque apologized in a statement Wednesday after admitting in Lawrence District Court that prosecutors have enough evidence to convict him of driving under the influence when he rear-ended a minivan in Andover on June 24.

Bourque’s “admission to sufficient facts” plea will resolve the case without a guilty finding if he successfully completes a year of probation. A judge also suspended Bourque’s driver’s license for 45 days.

Police said Bourque had a blood-alcohol level of 0.249, three times the state’s legal limit to drive. In his statement, Bourque said he takes full responsibility for his actions.
 

mauf

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Sounds like he got a pretty standard sentence for a first-time offender, but it's terrible that we let people with BACs so high off so lightly -- this isn't a case of someone who had one or two too many.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Huh? A 45 day license suspension and no guilty charge in exchange for a year probation is hardly standard. And a lot of states have mandatory jail sentences and ignition locks for blowing twice the legal limit, let alone three times it.

Edit: I will amend by obviously stating I don't know the laws in all states, just the ones of lived in, which doesn't include Massachusetts. If that's standard for Mass, that's pretty sad.
 

TheRealness

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.249 is ridiculous. The license suspension seems lenient, but I don't handle MA OUI stuff so I'm not sure where this would fit on the plea scale.

That is just an absurd number for Bourque to hit and get behind the wheel.
 

mauf

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Huh? A 45 day license suspension and no guilty charge in exchange for a year probation is hardly standard. And a lot of states have mandatory jail sentences and ignition locks for blowing twice the legal limit, let alone three times it.

Edit: I will amend by obviously stating I don't know the laws in all states, just the ones of lived in, which doesn't include Massachusetts. If that's standard for Mass, that's pretty sad.
45 days on top of the administrative 180-day penalty for refusing to submit to a breathalyzer test.

Not saying that's sufficient, but he's not going to be driving for several months.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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Jul 7, 2016
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Huh? A 45 day license suspension and no guilty charge in exchange for a year probation is hardly standard. And a lot of states have mandatory jail sentences and ignition locks for blowing twice the legal limit, let alone three times it.

Edit: I will amend by obviously stating I don't know the laws in all states, just the ones of lived in, which doesn't include Massachusetts. If that's standard for Mass, that's pretty sad.
Put away the pitchforks, folks. As background, I'm an attorney and a former assistant district attorney.

Ray's disposition is a standard first time OUI offender plea pursuant to MGL Ch. 90 Sect. 24. Penalties include a menu of fines, fees and offender education classes not specified in any of the reports I've read (they generally aren't). The .249 BAC is NOT the worst I've seen to receive this disposition. (Also, not to quibble, but to say Ray was "three times over the limit" [.08] is, medically speaking, completely wrong for a number of reasons I won't delve into here).

The 45 day suspension is absolutely standard, no surprises there. In fact, should his attorney seek to have his license restored under the hardship provisions (DMV), it's likely Ray could have his license back much sooner. As a prosecutor, when a first-time OUI defendant, or his/her attorney, offered me a green sheet (plea form) with this disposition, I would sign it 100% of the time as this is the maximum sentence a trial court judge would impose even if the Commonwealth prevailed at trial. My opinion is that Ray did not receive the golden pillow treatment by either the District Attorney or trial court judge; he simply got what numerous other OUI offenders receive per the MGL statute.
 

Red Right Ankle

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Put away the pitchforks, folks. As background, I'm an attorney and a former assistant district attorney.

Ray's disposition is a standard first time OUI offender plea pursuant to MGL Ch. 90 Sect. 24. Penalties include a menu of fines, fees and offender education classes not specified in any of the reports I've read (they generally aren't). The .249 BAC is NOT the worst I've seen to receive this disposition. (Also, not to quibble, but to say Ray was "three times over the limit" [.08] is, medically speaking, completely wrong for a number of reasons I won't delve into here).

The 45 day suspension is absolutely standard, no surprises there. In fact, should his attorney seek to have his license restored under the hardship provisions (DMV), it's likely Ray could have his license back much sooner. As a prosecutor, when a first-time OUI defendant, or his/her attorney, offered me a green sheet (plea form) with this disposition, I would sign it 100% of the time as this is the maximum sentence a trial court judge would impose even if the Commonwealth prevailed at trial. My opinion is that Ray did not receive the golden pillow treatment by either the District Attorney or trial court judge; he simply got what numerous other OUI offenders receive per the MGL statute.
Good stuff. I think PP was saying that MA goes light on OUI offenders relative to other states, though, not that Ray was given the golden pillow treatment.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Good stuff. I think PP was saying that MA goes light on OUI offenders relative to other states, though, not that Ray was given the golden pillow treatment.
Yes. I lived in VA for a long time. That would have been a year suspension, 15 days in jail and an ignition lock, even for a first offense. I know VA is known to be somewhat Draconian, but I assumed most states fell somewhere a little south of that. 45 day suspension, especially for a number that high, seems crazy to me. I' in NH now and have a friend that just got busted at a .11 and even he lost it for 6 months.
 

joe dokes

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Yes. I lived in VA for a long time. That would have been a year suspension, 15 days in jail and an ignition lock, even for a first offense. I know VA is known to be somewhat Draconian, but I assumed most states fell somewhere a little south of that. 45 day suspension, especially for a number that high, seems crazy to me. I' in NH now and have a friend that just got busted at a .11 and even he lost it for 6 months.
That's where I am.
If I read the statutes right, Bourquw would have been charged with a felony in NH.
Getting to .25 requires an unbelievable fuckton of drinking. .25 is also within spitting distance of possibly killing yourself.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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Yes. I lived in VA for a long time. That would have been a year suspension, 15 days in jail and an ignition lock, even for a first offense. I know VA is known to be somewhat Draconian, but I assumed most states fell somewhere a little south of that. 45 day suspension, especially for a number that high, seems crazy to me. I' in NH now and have a friend that just got busted at a .11 and even he lost it for 6 months.
It all depends on the fact pattern of the incident of course. Mass. may have been settled by Puritans, but jurisprudence has moved away from focusing on the offenders' sin to offender rehabilitation. Obviously, OUIs resulting serious injury, damage or death can result in sentencing multipliers. As I mentioned above, I would accept a first-offender continuance without a finding plea on an OUI, no matter how high the BAC level, without a second thought (note that MA statute already allows for more severe penalties for "second and subsequent offenses" and multipliers like injury or death; too many OUIs = prison time if convicted). (Note: "CWOF", aka admission of sufficient facts -- is not the same as a guilty finding, which remains on your CORI forever; a "CWOF" allows the case to be "dismissed" after successfully completing a certain amount of probation, usually 6 months.)

Other states may seem harsher on OUIs but that does not mean they are always more hard line. I was involved in a NH OUI case in which we were able to plead the OUI down to a reckless operation offense, thereby avoiding the NH OUI statute altogether and the penalties pursuant to it, resulting in a much friendlier disposition for the defendant, and arguably a more efficient (see below) outcome for the state (avoiding trial is considered efficient). By and large, MA District Attorneys do not accept pleas to a lesser offense as in other states (my office had a "policy" that prohibited reductions or "nolle pros" -- declining to prosecute -- although more than once I have "packaged" two OUIs into a single plea by dismissing one OUI charge for the sake of efficiency and, um, justice. This is done in every criminal court in the nation; each state has its own version of the OUI statute, and each state's legislature sets forth their own peculiar penalties.

Rarely considered by laymen are the notions of efficiency and time standards. For example, prosecuting every offense to the trial phase would result in a meltdown in the criminal justice system; the district court (jurisdiction in garden variety OUIs) is the filter that flushes out as many cases as possible (via, e.g., pleas) so that such a meltdown/gridlock does not occur. Also, judges are under a great deal of pressure from "Boston" (the Trial Court brass) to meet time standards: cases must make their way through the system within a certain time frame to preserve efficiency. Hence, mechanisms such as Ray's "CWOF" are an effective, if imperfect, means by which to keep the system running smoothly.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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That's where I am.
If I read the statutes right, Bourquw would have been charged with a felony in NH.
Getting to .25 requires an unbelievable fuckton of drinking. .25 is also within spitting distance of possibly killing yourself.
Just a rough estimate, but .25 BAC works out to about 5 shots of whiskey over about 4 hours of drinking for a 220 lb man. Or thereabouts. Certainly nowhere near alcohol poisoning/comatose/near death levels.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Rarely considered by laymen are the notions of efficiency and time standards. For example, prosecuting every offense to the trial phase would result in a meltdown in the criminal justice system; the district court (jurisdiction in garden variety OUIs) is the filter that flushes out as many cases as possible (via, e.g., pleas) so that such a meltdown/gridlock does not occur. Also, judges are under a great deal of pressure from "Boston" (the Trial Court brass) to meet time standards: cases must make their way through the system within a certain time frame to preserve efficiency. Hence, mechanisms such as Ray's "CWOF" are an effective, if imperfect, means by which to keep the system running smoothly.
And this is the reason I always tell anybody that will listen to always fight traffic tickets. If everyone fought their traffic tickets, the system would get bogged down and they would be forced to severely reduce the number of tickets issued.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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And this is the reason I always tell anybody that will listen to always fight traffic tickets. If everyone fought their traffic tickets, the system would get bogged down and they would be forced to severely reduce the number of tickets issued.
Agree. Unlikely this would cause PD stop writing tickets -- police aren't terribly concerned about actually prosecuting cases, that's the DA or magistrate's problem -- but just showing up to contest a citation usually results in the judge/magistrate at least reducing the fine to something less unsavory. Judges tend to adopt King Solomon's baby-splitting method just to get the detritus off their goddamn docket.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Agree. Unlikely this would cause PD stop writing tickets -- police aren't terribly concerned about actually prosecuting cases, that's the DA or magistrate's problem -- but just showing up to contest a citation usually results in the judge/magistrate at least reducing the fine to something less unsavory. Judges tend to adopt King Solomon's baby-splitting method just to get the detritus off their goddamn docket.
Police Officers would definitely reduce the tickets they write, they would not possibly be able to show up to court for the amount of time required to defend the citation volume. I mean, they could just not show up, but in that case all of those tickets get tossed anyway.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Just a rough estimate, but .25 BAC works out to about 5 shots of whiskey over about 4 hours of drinking for a 220 lb man. Or thereabouts. Certainly nowhere near alcohol poisoning/comatose/near death levels.
Wow, that's not even remotely accurate. It's not near poisoning/death levels, but the liver handles a drink in about an hour. There's no way a 220 lb man is at .25 BAC after 4 hours and five drinks. I understand you're a prosecutor in these kinds of things, but that's extremely inaccurate. A .25 BAC is a lot of drinking. Five drinks over four hours does not get a man to .25 unless he has a severe problem with his liver.
 

Ale Xander

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Just a rough estimate, but .25 BAC works out to about 5 shots of whiskey over about 4 hours of drinking for a 220 lb man. Or thereabouts. Certainly nowhere near alcohol poisoning/comatose/near death levels.
This is very very wrong. Death becomes possible around .28
5 drinks for a 220 lb man brings you to around .10
 

TheRealness

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I've handled some DUI's up here, and the general minimum for a first time offender if found guilty is 6 month loss of license for the criminal end, and 3 months on top of that at the administrative level. This is reduced down to a 3 month loss of license upon the completion of an alcohol prevention course. Our system is bifurcated in a sense, as someone faces an administrative suspension at the DMV hearings level, and then a subsequent criminal hearing for the criminal conviction. So, I've lost at the administrative level (preponderance of the evidence standard), and won at the criminal level. This invariably forces some pleas on cases that are on the line of which way they go.

A reckless plea is a common way around this for prosecutors on weaker cases. The ALS is withdrawn, and the reckless goes through at the criminal level.

All that being said, Bourque is a fucking moron for getting behind the wheel at that BAC level. I also agree with The Flaw that he's a hockey player so maybe he's like superhuman or something and is not like us mere mortals. I could buy that. He was my childhood hero.
 

timlinin8th

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This is very very wrong. Death becomes possible around .28
5 drinks for a 220 lb man brings you to around .10
That is pretty consistent with this and a few other charts I found via google:
http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html

Rounding off to ~.02 bac/drink assuming Bourque is still at least well over two bills weight-wise, mean to push up to .25 he had to have had at least 13 drinks, and factor in the time quotient a couple more. Or, in news not surprising to anybody, he hit it hard - not five drinks.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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Jul 7, 2016
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Wow, that's not even remotely accurate. It's not near poisoning/death levels, but the liver handles a drink in about an hour. There's no way a 220 lb man is at .25 BAC after 4 hours and five drinks. I understand you're a prosecutor in these kinds of things, but that's extremely inaccurate. A .25 BAC is a lot of drinking. Five drinks over four hours does not get a man to .25 unless he has a severe problem with his liver.
You're correct, my rough estimate was off the mark. And I'm not trying to minimize Ray's drinking or culpability. At that level, he was without a doubt intoxicated regardless of the number of beverages, had no business getting behind the wheel, placed lives in jeopardy, and everyone involved was lucky to wake up whole the next day.

My central point was simply that .25 is not an unprecedented level. I've prosecuted cases where defendants blow .30s on the breathalyzer and live to enjoy the hangover. There are multiple ways to attack breathalyzer tests at trial, such as machine maintenance and calibration, officer training, timing of the sample, testing during absorption, etc. I suspect Ray had the best counsel money can buy and their advice was to plead out. Or maybe Ray just felt he had to take responsibility for his actions. At the end of the day, he got the going rate in terms of criminal penalties and is fortunate enough to be able to move on with his life and hopefully commit himself to a lifetime of sober driving. If so, we can say the criminal justice system worked, at least in Ray's case.
 

Hyperion's Satyr

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Police Officers would definitely reduce the tickets they write, they would not possibly be able to show up to court for the amount of time required to defend the citation volume. I mean, they could just not show up, but in that case all of those tickets get tossed anyway.
They can appear, but most departments have a duty officer assigned to the courthouse to handle motor vehicle violations such as speeding tickets and who appears on behalf of all that department's officers, e.g., in magistrates' hearings. The burden on the issuing officer to appear usually does not apply unless the citation is tied to another charge, such as reckless operation or some other criminal violation and his/her appearance is necessary to further the prosecution.