Rank-'em: Top NFL Coaches not named Bill Belichick

EricFeczko

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One thing unmentioned about Andy Reid is that he was the head coach AND GM for the Eagles for 14 years.
The Eagles, whose fan base booed Santa Claus and once had a stadium with a courthouse and jail cell.
If you consider how many coaches (e.g. Mike Mularkey) get sidelined by the owners/FO/fans/media, Andy Reid has been a master at maintaining control.
 

Infield Infidel

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I suppose if we couldn't have BB, I'd go:

1. Reid: I think he's overall really good just has one quirk with time management. Hall of Famer for me. Arguably 2nd best of his generation in total.
Reid for HOF is an interesting question. George Allen is the only coach in the HOF from the Super Bowl era who didn't win a Super Bowl, or coach in at least two Super Bowls, and it took 20 years for him to get in.
 

Oppo

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Marvin Lewis with an honorable mention for keeping his job for 14+ years with an 0-7 playoff record. That is quite a feat.
 

Cellar-Door

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Where are people getting their info on Tomlin being a cheerleader?
The term came from Terry Bradshaw. Tomlin has always had a rep as a guy who wasn't particularly involved in the x's and o's of his team though, he's a motivator and he manages the lockerroom, but his coordinators have always had a lot of leeway in terms of what schemes they run, playcalling, etc.
 

Euclis20

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In the next tier, I'd probably have guys like Harbaugh, McCarthy, Tomlin and Payton (who i think is woefully overrated, and for some reason, people just seem to assume a head coach shouldn't be responsible for the putrid play of their defense).
Agreed about Payton. I've never quite understood why he glides by unquestioned with now 3 straight losing seasons, while at the same time people call for McCarthy's head as he wins 10ish games each year. Brees isn't Rodgers, but he's a HOF QB still playing at a pro-bowl level.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Agreed about Payton. I've never quite understood why he glides by unquestioned with now 3 straight losing seasons, while at the same time people call for McCarthy's head as he wins 10ish games each year. Brees isn't Rodgers, but he's a HOF QB still playing at a pro-bowl level.
Mainly because Payton doesn't have a top tier GM doing the shopping for him like McCarthy does and because Payton has shown himself to be a very good in game strategist while McCarthy has shown himself to be kind of an idiot in terms of strategic decision making.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Mainly because Payton doesn't have a top tier GM doing the shopping for him like McCarthy does and because Payton has shown himself to be a very good in game strategist while McCarthy has shown himself to be kind of an idiot in terms of strategic decision making.
Then he needs to either find himself a qualified defensive coordinator, and give him the freedom to buy the groceries on that side of the ball, or he needs to be held accountable for the failures on that side of the ball, as much as he's given the credit for the successes of the offensel. I'll give Payton all the credit in the world for an offense that consistently lights it up, and of course, the amazing Super Bowl run, but it's been a number of years since then, and now, he just seems to put together .500 teams that win or lose games every other week by scores of 40-35 or whatever. The bloom is off. It's time to actually win games, and if one of the most important parts of a head coaches job is finding the right coordinators, he's been an absolute failure in that respect for 50% of the job description.
 

edmunddantes

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Also haven't the saints been constantly fighting to fill roster due to horrible cap management? As much as Felger says the cap is crap every year they have mortgaged the next year to stay just ahead. It's finally been catching up to them.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Then he needs to either find himself a qualified defensive coordinator, and give him the freedom to buy the groceries on that side of the ball, or he needs to be held accountable for the failures on that side of the ball, as much as he's given the credit for the successes of the offensel. I'll give Payton all the credit in the world for an offense that consistently lights it up, and of course, the amazing Super Bowl run, but it's been a number of years since then, and now, he just seems to put together .500 teams that win or lose games every other week by scores of 40-35 or whatever. The bloom is off. It's time to actually win games, and if one of the most important parts of a head coaches job is finding the right coordinators, he's been an absolute failure in that respect for 50% of the job description.
Some criticism of Payton is totally fair. I'm just explaining why McCarthy might deserve more, despite having a better W/L record the last three years.

I think the biggest issue with the Saints is the players. They just don't have a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball and that's been the case for a while now. Payton probably deserves some of the blame but (afaik) he doesn't have total control over player acquisition. He doesnt have the advantage of coaching a team put together by a top tier GM like McCarthy, Harbaugh, or Tomlin.
 

Michelle34B

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4. Sean Payton. Loved by football stat-heads for his EV-maximizing gambles on things like 4th down and kicking, he has a very creative offensive style that has gotten the most out of Drew Brees's gunslinging. Probably deserves a lot of the credit for what success Parcells had in Dallas, too.
Mike Zimmer was Parcells' DC in the Dallas years, I guess I don't see if Payton then why not Zimmer? There other more obvious coaches to mention related to Parcells, so I'll leave it at that.

Marvin Lewis with an honorable mention for keeping his job for 14+ years with an 0-7 playoff record. That is quite a feat.
Marvin has had his contract run out once or twice, and coached in the final year of his contract a couple of times including 2017 if there is no extension before the season. He is also one of the lowest paid head coaches.

I like your honorable mention. I'll add Chip Kelly, the Eagles and 49ers can figure how many millions he gets paid next year for not coaching.
 

InstaFace

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Mike Zimmer was Parcells' DC in the Dallas years, I guess I don't see if Payton then why not Zimmer? There other more obvious coaches to mention related to Parcells, so I'll leave it at that.
Not as long a track record, I guess - he only became a HC in 2014. I didn't really have a strong opinion once I got down to #5.

I'd put Zimmer in the "hot prospect, but too soon to dub him top-tier" category, like Gase. In 2011 people thought Rex Ryan was the hottest shit around.
 

SMU_Sox

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Zimmer's DB wouldn't follow his directions for one half of play and the results were awful. That's some serious insubordination.
 

dbn

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Posted this in the coaching carousel thread but move it here, and now see that it's already been discussed here a bit, but whatever:

Why have we so quickly established that Mike Tomlin is a cheerleader? It seems that was something posited, repeated, and accepted around here without good explanation. A lot of NFL teams would be very happy to have someone lead their team for 10 years without a losing season, win 2 conference championships, and win a SB.
 

Tony C

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Because in our media society if one person says something negative, it's repeated?

Whether or not he is, either scenario paints a good picture. One is that it's a totally false statement from those who think he's too...(impassive; young; black; whatever) ...to be a strategist -- but in fact he does have control of Steelers' schemes and is making the most of their talent, as witness a team that seems to consistently be well run. Two is that he's a delegator who is smart enough to know that his job is to motivate and make sure the machine is running smoothly, and lets others handle the x and o stuff. Either way (probably some combo)....he's doing a good job.
 

Stitch01

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Putting everything else aside (and I think he has other flaws), having McCarthy on any top coaches list after the 2014 NFCCG is like putting Grady Little on a top manager list.
 

Ralphwiggum

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So hypothetically if you owned an NFL team and BB was available to coach your team for the next 5 or so years until he retires, how much would you pay him?
 

Hoya81

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So hypothetically if you owned an NFL team and BB was available to coach your team for the next 5 or so years until he retires, how much would you pay him?
15-20 million, with an option to continue as GM/Head of Football ops indefinitely once he's done coaching.

Payton is highest paid at 8 million, have to assume bids for BB would open north of 10 million.
 

dcmissle

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Posted this in the coaching carousel thread but move it here, and now see that it's already been discussed here a bit, but whatever:

Why have we so quickly established that Mike Tomlin is a cheerleader? It seems that was something posited, repeated, and accepted around here without good explanation. A lot of NFL teams would be very happy to have someone lead their team for 10 years without a losing season, win 2 conference championships, and win a SB.
Poor Bradshaw is brain addled and backed off his comment in a radio interview. Tomlin is not exceptional, IMO, but fine for how the Steelers roll. A key part of that is continuity. They don't get caught up in quarterly performance. They are focused on the long term. Contrast Cleveland.

Chuck Noll installed this vision, and Noll is one of the GOATs. Before him, Steelers were miserable for 3+ decades.
 

InstaFace

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I didn't realize Jim Harbaugh makes $1m more than any NFL coach.
BB has long been rumored to make ~$12M/year. I'm not sure where "Payton is highest at $8" is coming from. The truth, however, is that nobody actually knows what he makes, publicly. That article explains why there are bad estimates that have been repeated often enough that they're now discussed as fact.
 

Super Nomario

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BB has long been rumored to make ~$12M/year. I'm not sure where "Payton is highest at $8" is coming from. The truth, however, is that nobody actually knows what he makes, publicly. That article explains why there are bad estimates that have been repeated often enough that they're now discussed as fact.
This is where, again, Bob Kraft is underestimated. You never hear word one about Belichick's contract. It just gets handled.
 

Ale Xander

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Over the past few months, I've seen seemingly 31 NFL head coaches get savaged for their roster-building, in-game tactics, and a wide range of other things. But it's both silly and a bit boring to sit around and say "Everybody sucks but Belichick!" So let's see your ranking of "top 5 NFL coaches", other than BB, since involving him doesn't really enhance the conversation.

My picks:

1. Andy Reid. Laugh at his clock management all you like, the man has an incredible track record of performance. Rex Ryan's loins ache for Reid's 4 straight CCGs. Alex Smith's career was considered dead and buried until Reid traded for him as basically his first act as KC HC, and cut his INT% in half. He hasn't had unbridled success or anything, but his teams have made the playoffs 11 of his 18 years, an incredible run. Who else could last 14 years in the Philly sports environment, even as maligned as he was?

2. Jim Harbaugh. As the only active coach to have a higher Win% than the sainted BB, the performance of SF before and after his tenure should strongly suggest his skills. Whether those skills wither with increasing time in CFB, I can't say, but right now I'd want him as my HC over nearly any other. The complaints about him ("players get tired of him!", etc) seem like small beer indeed.

3. Pete Carroll. 44 years in coaching, 24 in the NFL, 9 as HC of USC, 3 above-average years as HC of the Bledsoe-led Patriots, and now 7 highly successful years as HC of Seattle. Consistently aggressive and surprising, with few head-scratchers, and his teams are always ready to play. Tough to allocate credit for their recent strong drafts, but he surely deserves some.

4. Sean Payton. Loved by football stat-heads for his EV-maximizing gambles on things like 4th down and kicking, he has a very creative offensive style that has gotten the most out of Drew Brees's gunslinging. Probably deserves a lot of the credit for what success Parcells had in Dallas, too.

5. Mike McCarthy. 21-11 with Favre, 93-50 (65.0%) with Rodgers, and got rid of Favre at the right time too. Mocked for some questionable tactical decisions in particular playoff games, he has nevertheless made the playoffs every year but Rodgers' first, with a perennial top-10 offense. His 2000-04 Saints teams had a top-half offense basically every year too, even with the immortal Aaron Brooks at QB.

#5 was a tough choice between him, John Fox, Wade Philips and Bruce Arians. Decided Tom Coughlin was retired rather than merely unemployed, but you hear rumors every so often.
No sir

No fin way
 

dcmissle

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Don't understand why he does not recognize game management as a weakness and arm himself on the sideline with somebody who is really good at it. I'm talking mainly about the clock during crunch time. It's ok Andy -- no one is A + in every facet of their job.
 

Cellar-Door

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The thing about Reid is that it isn't even last 3 minutes type stuff. He just can not get his offense to hurry up and it eliminates all margin for error.

This is the final chiefs drive. They started at 9:49 on their own 25 (having previously wasted at timeout tryng to avoid a delay of game)
  • 9:49 - 4th) C.Boswell kicks 65 yards from PIT 35 to end zone, Touchback.

  • 1st and 10 at KC 25
    (9:49 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short middle to T.Kelce to KC 49 for 24 yards (L.Timmons; J.Harrison).

  • 1st and 10 at KC 49
    (9:03 - 4th) S.Ware up the middle to PIT 40 for 11 yards (M.Mitchell).

  • 1st and 10 at PIT 40
    (8:21 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass incomplete deep left to J.Maclin.

  • 2nd and 10 at PIT 40
    (8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass incomplete deep left to T.Hill (A.Burns). PENALTY on KC-S.Ware, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at PIT 40 - No Play.

  • 2nd and 25 at KC 45
    (8:08 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass deep right to T.Kelce to PIT 38 for 17 yards (R.Cockrell).

  • 3rd and 8 at PIT 38
    (7:21 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass incomplete. A.Smith intentionally threw away the pass. No intended reciever.

  • 4th and 8 at PIT 38
    (7:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short right to C.Conley to PIT 26 for 12 yards (R.Shazier).

  • 1st and 10 at PIT 26
    (6:25 - 4th) T.Hill up the middle to PIT 23 for 3 yards (R.Shazier).

  • 2nd and 7 at PIT 23
    (5:43 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short right to A.Wilson to PIT 25 for -2 yards (R.Cockrell).

  • 3rd and 9 at PIT 25
    (4:53 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass incomplete deep middle to C.Conley (S.Davis). KC-C.Conley was injured during the play. PENALTY on PIT-S.Davis, Unnecessary Roughness, 13 yards, enforced at PIT 25 - No Play.

  • 1st and 10 at PIT 12
    (4:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short left to C.West to PIT 6 for 6 yards (M.Mitchell; S.Davis). PIT-S.Davis was injured during the play.

  • 2nd and 4 at PIT 6
    (4:14 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass short middle to T.Kelce to PIT 4 for 2 yards (W.Gay).

  • 3rd and 2 at PIT 4
    (3:34 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass incomplete short right to D.Harris.

  • (3:29 - 4th) Timeout #2 by KC at 03:29.

  • 4th and 2 at PIT 4
    (3:29 - 4th) A.Smith pass short right to A.Sherman to PIT 1 for 3 yards (S.Davis; R.Cockrell).

  • 1st and Goal at PIT 1
    (2:43 - 4th) Spencer Ware 1 Yard Rush TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. A.Smith pass to J.Maclin is incomplete. ATTEMPT FAILS.


Not only did they burn a timeout to diagram a play on 4th and 2, but they used the full play clock every time the game clock was running. it took over 7 minutes for them to get into the end zone.
 

PedroKsBambino

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This is where, again, Bob Kraft is underestimated. You never hear word one about Belichick's contract. It just gets handled.
The one time they made a somewhat public thing about Belichick's contract? Extending it immediately after the Spygate penalties were announced. They know who their guy is, and they don't let things get anywhere near losing him.

I think Tomlin gets undersold. He is not the great X and O coach, but guys love him and play hard for him
 
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BigMike

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The thing about Reid is that it isn't even last 3 minutes type stuff. He just can not get his offense to hurry up and it eliminates all margin for error.

This is the final chiefs drive. They started at 9:49 on their own 25 (having previously wasted at timeout tryng to avoid a delay of game)


Not only did they burn a timeout to diagram a play on 4th and 2, but they used the full play clock every time the game clock was running. it took over 7 minutes for them to get into the end zone.
Yeah 2 of the freaking snaps the clock hit 0 on the snap.

Was Reid trying to shorten the game leaving Ben no time for a late drive? That doesn't seem to make sense since of course you are down 8, and everything has to be perfect for that to work.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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This is where, again, Bob Kraft is underestimated. You never hear word one about Belichick's contract. It just gets handled.
Does anyone else recall a book/article where they talked about the way BB and RK dealt with salaries for BB and the assistants, where the arrangement was that RK gave BB an "all-in" amount for coaches' salaries and BB worked out individual terms with his assistants, with the remainder as his salary? I swear I read this sometime in the mid-2000s but can't find it now.
 

Van Everyman

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From that article. Holy shit is this embarrassing:

The most concerning Quinn decision in recent memory came last season. Down 17-13 to the 49ers and facing a fourth-and-1 on the San Francisco 4-yard line with three minutes to go, Quinn bizarrely chose to kick a field goal and try to regain possession instead of attempting to convert for a first down against one of the league's worst defenses. His Falcons never got the ball back and lost. Quinn suggested after the game that he thought his defense was capable of forcing a three-and-out to return the ball to his offense, but even if he had the '85 Bears, the numbers were strongly in favor of going for it. NumberFire suggested Quinn's decision reduced Atlanta's win expectancy by 37.3 percent even after the field goal was made, dropping them from a 50.7 percent favorite to a 13.4 percent underdog.
 

InstaFace

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I didn't know there was something you could do, within the normal bounds of NFL Head Coach in-game calls, that could affect win expectancy by 37%. I mean, short of an INT in overtime or something, which isn't the coach's decision at all. Maybe go for it on 4th down when on the opposing 10 yard line, down by 2 with 30 seconds left? I mean that number sounds absolutely crazy to me.