Rafael Devers
- Thread starter Jed Zeppelin
- Start date
No, they were playing in Charleston tonight. It's funny how things work out, but a few of our close friends all decided to move to South Carolina independent of one another, within the span of a few months.
The reason it's kind of funny how things work out is one of my best buddies ended up deciding on Charleston. He's also my biggest Yankee foil in the group of buddies. So he ended up in Yankee farm territory and I ended up in Sox territory. Once we get settled we'll make trips to follow our favorite teams. His son and mine are good buddies too.
So that's the long answer. The short answer is he texted me from the game
It's awesome down here man. Greenville is a really cool place. Google some pics of the town around the stadium, it's pretty amazing. I'm up for catching games with anyone who wants to make the pilgrimage !
The reason it's kind of funny how things work out is one of my best buddies ended up deciding on Charleston. He's also my biggest Yankee foil in the group of buddies. So he ended up in Yankee farm territory and I ended up in Sox territory. Once we get settled we'll make trips to follow our favorite teams. His son and mine are good buddies too.
So that's the long answer. The short answer is he texted me from the game
It's awesome down here man. Greenville is a really cool place. Google some pics of the town around the stadium, it's pretty amazing. I'm up for catching games with anyone who wants to make the pilgrimage !
AlNipper49 said:No, they were playing in Charleston tonight. It's funny how things work out, but a few of our close friends all decided to move to South Carolina independent of one another, within the span of a few months.
The reason it's kind of funny how things work out is one of my best buddies ended up deciding on Charleston. He's also my biggest Yankee foil in the group of buddies. So he ended up in Yankee farm territory and I ended up in Sox territory. Once we get settled we'll make trips to follow our favorite teams. His son and mine are good buddies too.
So that's the long answer. The short answer is he texted me from the game
It's awesome down here man. Greenville is a really cool place. Google some pics of the town around the stadium, it's pretty amazing. I'm up for catching games with anyone who wants to make the pilgrimage !
Welcome to Greenville!
Posted on the last page on July 15th.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/82018-rafael-devers/?p=6140529
Worth a watch if you haven't seen it, though. Hell, worth a watch if you have.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/82018-rafael-devers/?p=6140529
Worth a watch if you haven't seen it, though. Hell, worth a watch if you have.
Detts said:
Looks like he needs to remove a few hitches from his swing - seems to pull his hands back and that lengthens it quite a bit. You can probably get away with that in Greenville but in AA/AAA he's going to see some real breaking stuff that could expose that. However, you can also see with his body type and bat speed why scouts drool.
I think what you are seeing as a hitch is a bit of an optical illusion. His hands move back, but not down. He waggles his hands a bit before loading, and he does it with them more forward toward the front of the plate than is perhaps normal. He then brings his hands back to a more natural position for his load and then begins his swing. Excepting extreme situations, what a hitter does before loading their hands isn't really all that important so long as they load consistently and the swing itself is good. His actual swing is smooth, clean and very much in control. His stride is pretty small because he starts from a fairly wide stance in the first place. He looks like he's got good balance, generates good torque with his hips and as you point out, his bat speed is excellent.
I wouldn't worry about his hands moving back like that. It looks more like a timing mechanism than a hitch to me. Plus, even if it is a hitch, he has the bat speed to get away with it, even at the highest level.
I wouldn't worry about his hands moving back like that. It looks more like a timing mechanism than a hitch to me. Plus, even if it is a hitch, he has the bat speed to get away with it, even at the highest level.
The hands moving back aren't the issue. It's the bat waggle at the end that tilts the barrel forward and can create a little bit of loop in a swing, as opposed to point to point.
Mechanically, the cleanest swing is one where the hips turn, the hands fire straight out, and the bat head follows. When the top hand on the bat gets physically in front of the bottom one, the hitter has to play catch-upto get to the contact point, which usually involves the back elbow dropping and a shitload of infield pop-ups and short fly outs.
Now, at this level, his bat is quick enough that it isn't causing problems. And it's still a really, really pretty swing. But if I were a hitting coach, I'd be working on gradually cleaning that up, because it is wasted movement that can develop into worse.
Mechanically, the cleanest swing is one where the hips turn, the hands fire straight out, and the bat head follows. When the top hand on the bat gets physically in front of the bottom one, the hitter has to play catch-upto get to the contact point, which usually involves the back elbow dropping and a shitload of infield pop-ups and short fly outs.
Now, at this level, his bat is quick enough that it isn't causing problems. And it's still a really, really pretty swing. But if I were a hitting coach, I'd be working on gradually cleaning that up, because it is wasted movement that can develop into worse.
A friend of mine here where I work played at Clemson with Billy McMillon and made it to A+ in the Angels organization until a back injury ended his career.
I showed him the Devers video (he was a great hitter and knows his shit) his reactions:
1) Stance was perfect. Said that is the first thing he looks for (centered stance, centered head, etc).
2) Noted head is on the ball all the way through the swing.
3) Bat speed was amazing.
4) Hands are ungodly quiet. He commented on this a couple of time. Just couldn't believe how quiet they were on an 18 year old kid with that bat speed.
5) 'We're going to see him in the majors sooner rather than later'.
I asked about the hitch in his swing at the beginning and he said 'not a big deal now as he won't be challenged until he hits AA...which needs to be sooner rather than later as A ball has to be too easy for him'.
I then showed him the Espinoza video. First thing out of his mouth was 'he looks like Pedro'.
When he started seeing him from the home plate side he let out a 'Holy Shit' when he saw the movement on the fastball. A lot of gasping at the pitches.
At the end he said 'it's just not fair what he can do'.
Edit, hit post by accident
I showed him the Devers video (he was a great hitter and knows his shit) his reactions:
1) Stance was perfect. Said that is the first thing he looks for (centered stance, centered head, etc).
2) Noted head is on the ball all the way through the swing.
3) Bat speed was amazing.
4) Hands are ungodly quiet. He commented on this a couple of time. Just couldn't believe how quiet they were on an 18 year old kid with that bat speed.
5) 'We're going to see him in the majors sooner rather than later'.
I asked about the hitch in his swing at the beginning and he said 'not a big deal now as he won't be challenged until he hits AA...which needs to be sooner rather than later as A ball has to be too easy for him'.
I then showed him the Espinoza video. First thing out of his mouth was 'he looks like Pedro'.
When he started seeing him from the home plate side he let out a 'Holy Shit' when he saw the movement on the fastball. A lot of gasping at the pitches.
At the end he said 'it's just not fair what he can do'.
Edit, hit post by accident
Don't stop the :fap: Devers, but he hasn't posted above a .300 OBP/month for the past three months.
Saw him live again last night. I'm a bit worried about the hitch in the swing and how that is going to play against better pitching as he moves up. If you go to 1:20 of the video, he points the barrel end of the bat at the pitcher before he swings, which is just a long timing move. I saw him last night and he was facing a guy throwing 92-95 and he was having trouble squaring things up. May have been just a few at bats, but I saw him live earlier in the season and I don't recall it being that exaggerated.
I don't know if numbers exist on A level ball, but I'd be curious to see splits on fastballs v offspeed. I'm guessing he may be having trouble with the heat. Worth watching.
I know we've had discussions about JBJ and his hitch, this one rivals that if not worse
I don't know if numbers exist on A level ball, but I'd be curious to see splits on fastballs v offspeed. I'm guessing he may be having trouble with the heat. Worth watching.
I know we've had discussions about JBJ and his hitch, this one rivals that if not worse
Here is what I'm referring to regarding the hitch I see. In that video several posts above, watch the first 2-3 BP swings. He cocks the bat so the barrel points at the pitcher as he loads. But it's BP and its not very pronounced and he's smooth, compact, and strong on those swings.
Now compare that with the swings in the game at 1:15 and 1:18 and beyond, on the video. Do you see how pointing the barrel is more dramatic, more pronounced? That's what I'm talking about. I think that "hitch" is effecting his timing and he needs to back off of it some, because the pitching is going to get better as he moves up.
I saw him last week in Greenville and the pitcher was throwing hard, and he was having trouble. Small sample I know, but he was late on some swings.
Now compare that with the swings in the game at 1:15 and 1:18 and beyond, on the video. Do you see how pointing the barrel is more dramatic, more pronounced? That's what I'm talking about. I think that "hitch" is effecting his timing and he needs to back off of it some, because the pitching is going to get better as he moves up.
I saw him last week in Greenville and the pitcher was throwing hard, and he was having trouble. Small sample I know, but he was late on some swings.
Hm, is that traditionally called a "hitch?" His hands aren't really moving away too much. That looks more like a little loop or extra length in the swing, to me. I thought a "hitch" was generally dropping your hands during loading, and many of the best hitters in baseball have had a hitch. Ted Williams had a crazy hitch. So did Barry Bonds. Hunter Pence has an absolutely absurd hitch, but of course everything he does is absolutely absurd. Hitches can get a bad rap, anyway.
I'm not sure you'd find too many scouts who would consider that very troublesome.
I'm not sure you'd find too many scouts who would consider that very troublesome.
I don't want to get into a semantic discussion, but yes, traditionally a hitch is dropping the hands. Some expand the use of the word to include batters that do something that effects their timing or makes them late to the ball.
This in my mind qualifies. Bat has to travel a long way once he gets his foot down. I think it could be a problem (hope its not), and I've seen him live several times, I think it's more pronounced than before, so it bears watching. That's all I'm saying.
Also if you go to the same video and see the swings in the red jersey starting at about 2:00 even, you can see the difference. The load isn't as pronounced in those swings that follow, especially the oppo HR.
This in my mind qualifies. Bat has to travel a long way once he gets his foot down. I think it could be a problem (hope its not), and I've seen him live several times, I think it's more pronounced than before, so it bears watching. That's all I'm saying.
Also if you go to the same video and see the swings in the red jersey starting at about 2:00 even, you can see the difference. The load isn't as pronounced in those swings that follow, especially the oppo HR.
Yup that's the same thing I had issue with above as well. It just makes the swing get a little loopy sometimes, and can cause other timing problems. It shouldn't be too hard to clean up, as it isn't a major issue, but he's not taking the most direct path to the ball right now because of it.
Agreed. People also don't take into account the weight of the barrel and the strength required to move it into a position to get it to the ball. Once the barrel gets low in relation to your hands, you've got timing issues IMO. The classic hitters that have a hitch (Bonds, Teddy, etc.) always kept the barrel vertical to their hands while they dropped a bit. Still very easy to move the bat and drop the barrel into the zone. When you've got to pick the barrel up to get it above the hands you run into problems.Chuck Z said:
I agree it shouldn't be too hard to fix. I'm guessing he's just reaching for a bit extra and its causing him timing issues.
Isn't Gary Sheffield the prime example of this type of "hitch"? He was even more exaggerated than Devers looks to be but had such quick wrists that he more than made up for it.
Check out this video of Sheffield. Explains some of what we're touching on here. Gary waved the bat into that position, but usually got it in a good spot once his foot landed.
I think Devers is a bit extreme with his position when it lands, but I think its something they can fix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPvVgc1QdLY
I think Devers is a bit extreme with his position when it lands, but I think its something they can fix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPvVgc1QdLY
PaulinMyrBch said:
Oh yeah. I don't think Devers will be able to get away with a Sheffiled-esque bat wiggle at AA. Maybe even high A. Still, that batspeed, keeping the hands back, the power, Devers looks fairly advanced for an 18 year old. He still has plenty to work on (especially fielding), but he's still incredibly young. There's a million ways he could go wrong or awesome.
Isn't it pretty standard in the minors not to tinker too heavily with a hitter's technique until he stops being successful? I don't think this is any cause for concern... yet.
#2 on MLB.com's 3B prospect list
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/162812504/prospect-watch-top-10-third-basemen-for-2016
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/162812504/prospect-watch-top-10-third-basemen-for-2016
Watching Devers tonight at Wilmington. He's 3-3 so far with 3 singles back toward the middle, all hit well. Looks like he's consciously trying to hit it where it came from, a good way to get the bat back where he'd like it.
After a super slow start that had some people freaked out, he has his season line up to .271/.331/.419/.749 and in the last 28 days it is .365/.408/.625/1.033 despite having only 1 HR during that time period (because he has 14 doubles and 4 triples in the same time period). If he ends up with an OPS of around .800 as a 19 year old in high A, given the start he had, I have to imagine that we will all be pretty happy, no?
I'm happy. He looked really good earlier in the season when I saw him. He looked noticeably in better shape, which is probably a combo of work and physical maturity. I'm not shocked his numbers have come around. Everything he hit in the games I saw was loud. Outs and fouls were contact that was likely to injure someone. Defense was was better than the year before.
he also plays in a bad park for LH power and has a 100 point home/away OPS split, so .800 would be even better than it looks.
Devers hitting .330/.374/.575 in 221 second-half ABs.
On the season, he is up to .280/.335/.451 with 11 HRs. He has also stolen 15 bases in 20 attempts.
His manager Joe Oliver praised his defense and could see him hitting "20 or 30 home runs" in the majors someday.
Devers will continue to be a teenager until October 24th.
On the season, he is up to .280/.335/.451 with 11 HRs. He has also stolen 15 bases in 20 attempts.
His manager Joe Oliver praised his defense and could see him hitting "20 or 30 home runs" in the majors someday.
Devers will continue to be a teenager until October 24th.
Wonder what sort of track he's on at this point. Obviously depends on how he handles AA, but it feels like we could see him in Boston any time from August next year to spring 2019 (waiting for Hanley's contract to finish). Does he move back to first by default once Moncada's installed?
The amount of information available to the Sox vs what is available to the average SoSH member is a bit...skewed
DD had the balls to promote Beni based on advice.
It appears to be working.
Patience Grasshopper
You're right, I was thinking of his projection as an eventual 1B when he was signed.
Was listening to Bradford today and he said Devers showed up out of shape. If true, pretty disappointing
True, although it would be more concerning from a maturational point of view if he was 23 or 24, and he can probably get himself back in shape pretty quickly. Oh, to be 20 again.
For those who know, what kind of regimen/oversight does the organization have in place for the younger guys (like 20 and younger) during the off-season?
For those who know, what kind of regimen/oversight does the organization have in place for the younger guys (like 20 and younger) during the off-season?
Here he is 3 weeks ago at Sox rookie camp, so we can be the judge. Weight is definitely up, but its hard to tell if he's out of shape or just in a process where he's trying to add good weight. The gut isn't busting the seams, but he's heavier.
It would be disappointing regardless because there is a greater than 0% chance he could see time in Boston this year. He's also playing for millions of dollars, that should be all the motivation one needs.
However, seeing the picture posted of him 3 weeks ago, calling him out of shape is being overcritical. It looks like a mix of muscle and fat as the poster above alluded to. Shouldn't be too hard for him to get back into game shape. I wonder if adding that mass will hurt him at 3b though. Last year he put a lot of those questions to rest but before that it was assumed he'd be moved across the diamond to 1st. It's clear he's going to be a pretty big dude (bulky muscle) even when fit.
Just hard to tell if those are pectorals or moobies, or a mix between the two.
However, seeing the picture posted of him 3 weeks ago, calling him out of shape is being overcritical. It looks like a mix of muscle and fat as the poster above alluded to. Shouldn't be too hard for him to get back into game shape. I wonder if adding that mass will hurt him at 3b though. Last year he put a lot of those questions to rest but before that it was assumed he'd be moved across the diamond to 1st. It's clear he's going to be a pretty big dude (bulky muscle) even when fit.
Just hard to tell if those are pectorals or moobies, or a mix between the two.
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In the 2nd picture, he looks jacked. He's also wearing the same exact outfit as the picture taken above. Although everyone is wearing the same outfit so who knows if it's the same day or not.
Even if not the same day, its the same camp, so within a few days. That makes more sense. I guess its easy for writer to throw out 'out of shape' not realizing what the offseason goals are and not really taking into account the fact that he was at a rookie camp 3 weeks ago. That looks like more good weight to me than bad. He's got a stout body type, but I like the mass I'm seeing in the upper body. Glad to know at least one scout out there wasn't concerned if he could steal bases.
It's a baggy shirt creasing as he walks. He looks like he's at 12% bf there, which is great. Frankly, there's a lot of research that says it's better for most athletes not to be at too low a bf%.
