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R-Dub: Time Lord, Tantalizing Sleeper, or Just a Late Flier?

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by ifmanis5, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Nice long-form article on TL here: https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/11/back-in-time-enigmatic-robert-williams-iii/.

    Love the fact that the guy felt bad for opponents in high school so he would hand the ball back to them after a rebound.

    Here's the money quote to me:

    “He still doesn’t understand it. He’s so humble and unique,” said Evans, who renamed his team the RW III All-Stars this season in honor of the Celtics rookie. “I was having a conversation with him the other day. He gives everyone so much credit. He thinks everybody else is so great and he’s just average."

    "He don’t understand — you are just as great as everyone else. But he’s so humble and unique that he doesn’t put it up here,” the coach said, pointing to his head. “All through high school I was saying this boy has rare talent. He could be one of the best in the world. He still hasn’t wrapped his mind around it — how good he really can be."
     
  2. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    I wonder if someone so humble and caring can truly thrive in the NBA.
     
    #652 TripleOT, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  3. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    AC Green did ok.
     
  4. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Well, the key might be him accepting that it's a job, and in the article he mentions that.
     
  5. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    If you are humble and caring off the court that is fine (AC Green good example)…...however if you possess these characteristics ON the floor it will be very difficult to succeed at such a high level while being at such a mental disadvantage. The good thing is that he's a kid and has time on his side to mature as a player. From the little he's played this year he seems to be a long ways from contributing to a contender though. We are in Championship Mode and not Rebuilding Mode so anything that comes out of TL is gravy but I'd imagine it's more than likely he'll be used as a trade chip for this reason.
     
  6. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Could’ve fooled me...
     
  7. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Here are some recent highlights from the G league. The first part is all dunks and blocks. Towards the end, there are a few jumpers and a couple of post up moves. Also shows a few passes which are pretty good for a big man. Enjoy!

     
  8. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Those that know his college game - are those jumpers in his comfort zone or is he shooting because those were his marching orders from Boston when sent down? The passing seems natural and unforced.
     
  9. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Teams almost exclusively packed in a 2-3 zone against A&M because nobody in that conference could matchup against their other big Tyler Davis who was a lethal low post scorer. The Aggies offense was walk it up using low block screens with ball swings to post up Davis, sneak a lob to TL or post him up, or one of the wings took a 3.
     
  10. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    OK, so if there was a natural outside shot in his skill set it was pre-A&M or just not needed in their offense.

    Thank you.
     
  11. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    He might not yet have any real offensive skills, but he's still very very fun.

     
  12. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    Was that RJ Hunter with the pass? It looked like many of his three pointers
     
  13. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  14. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm not 100% convinced we should assume it was a pass :)
     
  15. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    That is ridiculous athleticism. Wow
     
  16. Strike4

    Strike4 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Hopefully I see this at the Claws game Friday night...
     
  17. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    The pass was equally amazing. Not much room for error there given the time left on the clock. But you’re not getting that opportunity without someone having T-Lord’s athleticism.
     
  18. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Wasn't there a rule about this that was exploited by somebody earlier this season, about how since you can't score on an inbounds pass, as a result there can't be goaltending on the play? Seems like that's about the only play you can run when there's 0.4" remaining, shocked it was defended so poorly.
     
  19. Trotski

    Trotski Member SoSH Member

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    I was at the game....yes I was one of the 12, and they executed that play perfectly. There was no goaltending, it was a perfect pass and perfect timing.
     
  20. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    How did he look outside of that awesome put-back?
     
  21. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    There can only be a tip in (that's what she said!) when there's .2 or less time left, not actual shots.

    It's the Trent Tucker Rule.
     
  22. Trotski

    Trotski Member SoSH Member

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    I want to preface this by saying that I was calling the game for the Bulls on the radio, so I was more fixated on what Windy City was doing to stop him more than how he looked individually, but he looked just OK despite scoring 21 on 8-12 shooting. About what you'd expect in a G-League game. Had one nice post move where he hit a turn around jumper on the baseline, but mostly it was, "Dozier throws the ball really high up in the air, Williams jumps over everyone and dunks it." His offensive game didn't appear to have much flow (Which we all know), but I expected a little more against lesser competition. The biggest issue I see night in and out in the G-league is the top players don't really get any better playing against this competition as they are just more talented, athletic, etc, so there isn't really any room for "practice". I was a little surprised that he only had 5 rebounds in about 23 minutes as the Bulls are one of the smallest G-League teams and not one of the better rebounding teams.

    John Bohannon on the other hand was a beast. Triple double, 12/19/11. He was the one the Bulls struggled with all night.
     
  23. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    I just rewatched the second half of the Kings game, after seeing it live at a bar. With Baynes with five fouls, Brad went with Time Lord down four with 1:43 left in the third. The AL, TL, Smart, Brown, Hayward lineup tightened up the defense and slowed down the Kings, who had been scoring in bunches.

    Williams did a great job of team defense in his seven minutes. The box score had him with one rebound, two points, and two steals in his seven minutes. Except for one play where he misplayed a high post handoff type pick roll and allowed an uncontested layup, he positioned up very well on help defense, and hedged smaller switches into taking difficult shots. In his seven minutes, the Kings made four layups and a ridiculous 22 foot Hield step back, with Williams challenging it very well, and missed seven shots and turned it over three times.

    He didn't get involved much on offense, but the Cs lit it up when he was out there. He had a big (uncredited) offensive rebounding tipout, a pure hustle play, and had a quick up dunk when AL found him open under the basket.


    Sacto ran almost all their offense at TL, using his man to set picks. Here's how TL handled things on defense:

    Kings run a curl for Fox, with Giles picking Brown. Williams smartly slides off Giles and cuts down Fox' driving path to the rim. Fox has to settle for a (missed) step back at the foul line, which Brown, with a second to recover after trailing on the pick, was able to contest.

    Williams grabs a rebound after Bagley decides to go to a spin move in traffic with AL all over him

    William does a decent job hedging Fox on a right foul line p/r, and Fox doesn't try too drive on him. Fox kicks it to Barnes, who throws up a garbage three that misses.

    Williams again does a decent job hedging Fox on a left side foul line p/r, allowing Hayward to challenge a tough Fox stepback 18 footer. GH foolishly fouls Fox with 4.4 second left in the quarter.

    4th

    Brown gets beat when he anticipates Bogdonovich going to use a foul line high pick by Giles, BB eschews the pick, but TL has enough awareness and foot speed to cut off his path to a layup. BB has to flare off to the side with the dribble and Brown fouls him on the floor.

    TL misplays a foul line fake handoff high p/r and BB goes backdoor for an easy layup.

    Sacto again goes at TL with a high p/r. Brown again guesses wrong and defends high side. TL slides over and cuts off BB's dribble drive, and defends his dribble all the way over the the opposite corner, where he steal the attempted post feed.

    Giles mid-post goes no where. He doesn't even try TL, Giles kicks to BB, who uses a Giles pick to go baseline. TL had a choice to cut it off or sink down and stop a lane/lob pass to Giles, and seeing Smart easily get past the pick, sunk in the lane, BB beats Smart badly for a baseline layup.

    Kings run a high p/r with WCS for Hield. TL is sagging off WCS, and Hield loses Smart. GH has to leave Burks to stop the Hield penetration at the foul line, and the open Burks drives to the rim. TL sinks into the paint, cuts off Burks, who fumbles the ball into TL's arms

    TL stands up to a deep front of the rim post up by WCS and WCS fumbles the ball away. The ball get kicked around, and TL ends up on Buddy, who fires up a step back 22 footer that goes in. TL positioned up well on Hield to stop any drive, and challenged the jumper well, but with the wrong hand.
     
  24. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Interesting recap. TL said that Al was telling him what to do and where to be the entire time.
     
  25. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Al was born to be a Patriot under Belichick but he grew too tall.
     
  26. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Fantastic post, TripleOT. That's what makes reading this forum worthwhile. Well, that and the tweets from Wob.
     
  27. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Having a veteran big like Horford or KG when he was here cannot be underappreciated more by fans but also cannot be more valuable to the inexperienced players on the floor. No coach can provide this. One of those true "doesn't show up in the box score" contributions.
     
  28. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Good pick-up. That "big" group was effective. On the offensive side, as long as TL sets physical screens, creates some tip outs and tries to get some garbage points around the rim that works. Other than plus/minus, the box score is pretty meaningless for the 5th offensive option.
     
  29. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    I'm not sure why Theis (when healthy) and Horford can't be on the floor together. That's a configuration that offers a little more quickness than the Horford-Baynes combination, and spreads the floor moire effectively than a lineup that includes the Time Lord.
     
  30. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Yep, Theis/Horford would work, if you believe that Al can play the 4. I do.
    Theis has also shown he can effectively hit the 3 if left open. But we've only seen 7 minutes of a Horford/Theis pairing this season, so clearly, Brad won't even consider it.

    The argument against playing Al at the 4 is that the pace of game has changed since last season, teams are playing quicker/more athletic 4s that can shoot and Al Horford can't guard them.

    As far as Baynes/Horford combo they were incredibly efficient playing together last season (Horford's best rotational partner @ 11.8 net rating ). In a scant 57 minutes playing together this season once again, Baynes is Horford's most efficient rotational partner (24.3 net rating).

    In fairness, 80% into the season, and Brad feels that Al should not play the 4. I'm hoping Brad comes to his senses quick before the season ends early. But doubt it.

    https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1&TeamID=1610612738

    https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1&TeamID=1610612738
     
    #680 benhogan, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  31. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    I think either Horford of Theis could guard the majority of 4's in the league. Yes, you will get opposing coaches who will counter with a small lineup, but that would be just as true if Baynes were out there. Two can play the going small game, and with their glut of wings the Celtics can play it better than most.
     
  32. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Yep, agree, Horford has and could easily guard the majority of 4s IMO.
    I definitely feel Brad played a little more chess in years past.
    He is very committed to playing small this season, regardless of the matchups.
     
  33. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    One thing I do know is the majority of fours in the league have no shot at guarding AL in the low post. If Baynes can figure out how to again hit a three pointer, he can drag a help big away from Horford as he backs down a smaller defender.
     
  34. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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  35. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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  36. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    If you look at numbers across the league, offensive rebounding rates are up this year (they had been dropping though). I think that's going to be a trend going forward as we see more Clint Capela types. As everyone moves away from the basket, the ones that don't will be able to grab more boards and score more garbage buckets. I think TL could possibly excel in this role. I'm just not sure Stevens wants that type of player as he really values spacing.

    The top rebounding players are getting more rebounds than in years past.
     
  37. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  38. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Brad loved Baynes and Amir, even before Baynes miraculously developed a 3pt shot during the Milwaukee series. No reason why TL shouldn't see 18min next season, if he can internalize the offensive and defensive assignments to sufficient levels.
     
  39. ishmael

    ishmael Member SoSH Member

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  40. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    I've been slow to come around, but I'm a fervent convert now.
     
  41. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Celtics went on a 10-0 run for the 2 minutes they played that "plus size" rotation in the 2nd Quarter. Against a normal Hawks lineup (Young, Huerter, Bembry, Collins, Dedmon) so there wasn't some special match-up that the Celtics exploited. It was straight up dominant defense/offense.

    Mamo dunk
    Tatum technical on Atl for 3-sec lane violation
    Smart post-up layup
    Smart open 3 off a Baynes screen
    Tatum dunk- run out off a block in a bottled up lane.

    side note: Baynes still doesn't look 100% (small limp in 3rd Quarter) but is moving better than the West Coast trip.

    A big Celtic line-up like that will crush the opponents will when we need to rest Kyrie for 10minutes a game during the playoffs, regardless of the matchup.

    C-dawg is converted, can Brad see the light before its too late?
     
    #691 benhogan, Mar 17, 2019 at 10:08 AM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 10:30 AM
  42. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Brad has clearly been testing this out more of late. He suggested after the game that Horford’s knee flaring up in the 3rd put the team in a tough spot, and is probably why we didn’t see that lineup again.

    Baynes has been really fragile this year. I don’t think we’ll know one way or another on how they plan to use him until the playoffs, because playing basketball clearly wears him down to a nub, and they’ll need to keep him fresh for then.
     
  43. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Seems like the 32yr old Baynes has had a lingering foot issue all year (after 4 straight seasons of good health) he's only played 41 out of 70 games this season.

    Not sure its the grind or if it's one specific injury that takes time to heal. BUT obviously playing the 5 at his age is taxing, we've seen Horford go down for 3 weeks earlier this season and has had lingering back issues all season. Now it's a knee issue. Good to see they are limiting Al's minutes and games again. Theis/TL have also been in/out of the infirmary all season.
     
    #693 benhogan, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:31 AM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 11:38 AM
  44. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    That was tongue-in-cheek obv re Baynes’ health, but I do think we’ll have to wait for the playoffs to see what Brad is thinking.

    The facts that Rozier’s minutes have been going down and that they’ve been trying more jumbo lineups are very promising signs.
     
  45. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Oh yea, my "Al worn down to a nub at the 5" comment was always a bit extreme to push my "Horford at the 4" meme. Guilty as charged;)

    Al and Aron have been healthy at the same time roughly 30 games this season. They have played a total of 55 minutes together. So CBS clearly has avoided pairing them most of the season regardless of matchups.

    I agree Brad is moving into playoff rotation mode, shaving Terry's minutes and playing larger. Just looking at potential playoff foes: Detroit, Indy, Phila, Mil makes me hope that the Celtics larger rotations will continue their uptrend in usage. You sound confident that it will, while I continue to be skeptical.
     

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