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Putting Pedroia Out To Pasture?

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by soxfan121, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    First, this isn't going to be easy. Mostly because of the contract - 4 more years, 56 million, a "limited" no trade clause. But also because he's been here - and been beloved - for so long.

    However, in the first year of the post-Ortiz Era, Pedroia verbally asserted himself as "the leader" and then proceeded to shit all over himself, multiple times. The Machado/Baltimore incident, in which he threw his teammates and manager under the bus on the field by shouting "it wasn't me!" The Price/Eck incident, where it festered for so long behind the scenes, Pedroia reportedly egged it on, and then the shameless press conference in which he declared his leadership and then did... nothing. (Well, he did "go home" after asking if he could in order to duck further questions). And finally, arguing balls and strikes in a playoff game to the point where either he or the manager was going to be ejected.

    Pedroia thinks of himself as a leader. All evidence suggests that he isn't, or that he sucks in the role. At the very least, he is uncomfortable in it.

    Meanwhile, he has played just 437 games of a possible 648 since turning 30. He has (apparently) a knee injury so severe that he's talking as if surgery isn't going to help. Microfracture? For a 34-year old player who relies on his lower half at the plate to generate power, and for his legs to carry him defensively, the prospect of microfracture is scary - not a lot of players have recovered to previous levels of performance afterwards. But even assuming the knee injury is treatable, he has been trending downward for several seasons (with 2016 as a notable exception).

    If Pedroia isn't a stellar defensive second baseman who can put up something close to his career averages at the plate - is he a key part of this team moving forward? Can the team import an established "veteran leader" and relegate Pedroia to his preferred role of "lead by example"?

    Finally, there will probably be no trade market for a 34-year old who is in decline, is owed more than 50 million dollars, has a bum knee, and a (limited) no-trade clause. In fact, there's really only one logical trade partner - Cleveland. Perhaps Cleveland would be willing to swap Jason Kipnis for Pedroia and a sweetner? Maybe put him on waivers and see if someone bites?
     
  2. The Gray Eagle

    The Gray Eagle Member SoSH Member

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  3. luckysox

    luckysox Eeyore Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Pedroia is not going on waivers. He is not getting traded (no one would take him right now due to injury/contract combo). I'd venture he is a major part of Farrell being out the door, and you don't fire your manager because your longest tenured and most popular (over time) player is not in his corner, and then also toss aside said player. His contract is what it is, and he is the 2nd baseman next season. The ONLY thing that will change that is if he has a major injury that keeps him off the field after some sort of major surgery.
     
  4. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    You raise points worth considering, but my guess is either he's better than the alternatives next year (Nunez?!?), or his knee is bad enough that nobody will be taking him off the Sox' hands. Kipnis should be healthy again next year and can play several positions, whereas Pedroia is anchored to 2b which Ramirez will have locked down for the rest of the decade. So I can't see the Indians being interested.
     
  5. Stitch01

    Stitch01 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    There's sort of multiple questions being raised in the OP

    --Is Pedroia suited to be the leader of the team? Hard to say from the outside, didnt seem super comfortable in the role and didnt cover himself in glory during the Machado incident. Losing his cool in a playoff game isnt great, but given the circumstances the previous leader of the team would have likely lost it as well, its understandable.
    --Is Pedroia a key part of the team going forward? Wouldnt pencil him in as being one of the best players on the team or playing 150 games going forward. He's not as important as the young core or the starting pitchers. Health is obviously a concern.
    --Should the Red Sox move on from Pedroia/is he a liability going forward? Not really. He's not tradeable, his salary for his performance level this year was meh, but not a disaster. If he's a pretty good defensive second basemen who hits close to average for the position his contract isnt really an issue in a vacuum (having a decent sized contract thats not an asset isnt great given the real dead money, but that is what it is) Doesnt seem like a good place to spend assets trying to upgrade. He's pretty obviously going to be the 2B here next year if healthy.
     
  6. paulb0t

    paulb0t Member SoSH Member

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    I won't get into the leadership aspect – but I know I was mostly content with Pedroia's production until his September swoon – especially in the context of the overall regression the offense had this year. Not vintage, but acceptable. To the naked eye, his defense also looked good, although Fan Graphs has him minus a few DRS this year.

    And to "me too" earlier posts – I think his 10/5 status + remaining contract make him a tough candidate to move. Especially when the guys that we'd potentially be interested in replacing him (Nunez) will be on the open market. If the club is insistent on looking for an upgrade path, I think it needs to come well after 1B/DH are sorted.

    Personally, I think the plan should be to get him healthy, and get a real backup who can spell him regularly next season (I'm not looking at you, Brock Holt). Unless the production comes back, I think you also have to slot him in the bottom third of the order.
     
  7. AlNipper49

    AlNipper49 Huge Member Dope

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    Also if he continues as he did we would only need a year of Nunez or Holt because presumably Chavis would be ready at that point. There hasn't been a player in the system so Pedroia as Chavis is right now in forever, down to the attitude and play style.
     
  8. Rovin Romine

    Rovin Romine Johnny Rico Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This will fix itself. It's Sandoval/Nomar redux - if Pedroia is a tenable starting 2B, the job is his. If he's injured to the point he's not reliable, nobody's likely to take him at his salary anyway. If he's toxic with the new manager, but can take the field, he can be traded for something to someone, even if we pay all the freight.

    But it's too early to eat his contract, and too early to tell how he'll do with the new manager. Regardless, we should think about upgrading the roster with a INF utility guy who might blossom into an acceptable starter, should he be called upon to replace Pedroia.
     
  9. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

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    I bet there might be mutual interest from Arizona. It's the only potential situation that might work if DD wanted to move him.
     
  10. TonyPenaNeverJuiced

    TonyPenaNeverJuiced Member SoSH Member

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    I wondered late in the year if Pedroia can adapt. I commend him for playing through pain, for giving his all - but as we saw with his last deep-fly-out of the year, if he's going up there and taking 2008 hacks, with his 2017 body, he's not going to contribute positively to this team. If he's able to keep it down to basics, go opposite field for singles, keep the ball more level, I really feel he could salvage his stats/keep earning his playing time. He's just not the player he once was - it doesn't mean he can't be something great in a different fashion.
     
  11. Pedroia's Itchy Nose

    Pedroia's Itchy Nose lurker

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    After seeing a lot of bold pronouncements about how "cooked" and "done" Pedroia is, I have to admit that I'm just not seeing it. From a pure baseball standpoint, even in this past year (a down year, undoubtedly) he managed an OBP heavy .761, .331 wOBA and a wRC+ of 102. He put up 1.9 fWAR, which isn't terrible for a $15m player.

    His 2017 looks a lot like his 2015 -- both years in which he spend significant time on the DL and put up around 2 fWAR. If you look at his past few seasons they don't look like a steady decline to me. While I don't expect him to have a bounceback 2018 that matches his incredible 2016, I don't buy the certainty that 2017 is the new normal. Even if it is the new normal, if he can maintain that over the next couple of seasons he won't be a huge liability -- while 15m for 2 wins isn't great, it's not atrocious either.

    I also think that there is room for improvement. Sometimes players need to adjust to age and lingering injury. While it's possible that Pedroia's knee be back to normal with an offseason of rest and treatment (surgical or otherwise), it's also possible that it won't. Even if it doesn't, it IS possible that Pedroia will adapt and it will be less of a liability than it was this season. Pedroia's BsR has been really bad for two years now. He might be able to get that under control by learning to be less aggressive on the bases.

    Some of Pedroia's problems this year have clearly stemmed from overall weaknesses of the team. Pedroia's .369 OBP would look a LOT better if the team had a legit power bat behind it. It looked poor this season because of the team's struggles. While we might reasonably expect Mookie and X to get some power back, it's possible that Pedroia won't. As long as the team doesn't continue to be punchless though I don't think that the Sox suddenly won't be able to afford having an "empty" .360-.380 OBP in the lineup.

    As far as leadership goes, I think we are being really irresponsible in speculating about whether or not Pedroia can be the team leader based on this past year. There's evidence that there were some rough patches, but fans really don't get enough of the picture to make a judgment on this kind of thing. We've got some snapshots and some media reporting and that's it. There might have been dozens of cases where Pedroia had a positive impact that the fans or the media didn't see. And even if he did fail as the team leader this year, sometimes these things have a learning curve. "Pedroia thinks of himself as a leader. All evidence suggests that he isn't, or that he sucks in the role. At the very least, he is uncomfortable in it" - maybe yes, maybe no. We have a very small sample of the evidence. We also might be misconstruing that discomfort. It was a very tough year for the Sox. Despite leading the division for a large chunk of the season (and eventually winning it), the team got shit on by the fans and the media to a degree that is uncommon for a winning ballclub. The media could easily have framed this team as incredibly gritty due to the way they grinded out wins, performed at their best close-and-late, and had an incredibly grueling number of extra inning games that they nevertheless dominated. In a season where other teams were bashing at an unprecedented rate, the Red Sox were getting by with a low-power offense and scratching out runs. But that's not the reputation they got. Usually the media is falling all over itself to praise teams like that, but this year for whatever reason that wasn't the case. The Sox young core got overshadowed badly by the emergence of the "Baby Bombers" and with MLB desperate to have another Jeter as the face of the game, Aaron Judge's Yankees had to be the good guys.

    That's a real shit sandwich to be served in your first year as the "team leader".

    TL;DR:

    • While Pedroia did not play up to his history this year, he was hardly a liability.
    • There is no certainty that he will not bounce back some. Even if he doesn't his contract isn't actually terrible.
    • It's incredibly difficult for outsiders to judge leadership with the limited picture that we have. Maybe Pedrioa is or becomes a good leader, maybe he doesn't.
    • Regardless, it's incredibly premature to be saying that he should be "out out to pasture".
     
  12. ehaz

    ehaz Member SoSH Member

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    Pedroia has averaged 3.5 WAR per season since turning 30. Even if he's a .390 SLG% guy for the rest of his career, he's an above average 2B.

    That being said, I hope the Red Sox sign an everyday infielder to back him up. Going forward, they can't pencil Pedey in for more than ~90/100 games. If Nunez signs elsewhere, I hope they go for Howie Kendrick. He played more OF than 2B this year with Philly and Washington, but that just means he can simultaneously fill the Chris Young role, back-up 2B, and spell Devers against tough lefties. Kendrick even played a bit of 1B. .315/.368/.475 line in 91 games this season, including a much needed .901 OPS against lefties
     
  13. maufman

    maufman Dope Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    Pedey won’t be the serious HOF candidate we thought he’d be 4-5 years ago, but a 369 OBP with above-average D at 2B is nothing to sneeze at. He still more than earns his paycheck when he’s healthy — and if he’s not, we’re stuck with him regardless.

    I haven’t seen any 2018 projections, but I’m guessing he’ll come out at something like 120 GP with roughly this year’s rate stats, which translates to a shade under 2.5 WAR, give or take. If the Sox were rebuilding, you might try to find a trade partner who would give you essentially nothing but pay full freight, because the Sox’ 2020-21 obligations to Pedroia aren’t looking good. But the Sox aren’t rebuilding, and you’re not going to replace Pedroia’s production for $14mm/yr on the free-agent market, so trading him would make no sense, even if he weren’t a 10-5 guy and a fan favorite.

    He’ll be back next year, and rightly so.
     
    #13 maufman, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  14. brs3

    brs3 sings praises of pinstripes SoSH Member

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    Maybe metrics say otherwise, but I didn't see Pedroia as a liability at 2B, and often thought he played above average in the field. He wasn't the worst offensive player either, so putting Pedroia anywhere but in the lineup at 2B as often as possible seems like an overreaction. I think this thread is 2 years too early. If his career is any measure he'll bounce back next year before reverting due to injury.

    I'll correct myself that he is a liability in the sense of needing a 2B for potentially 30-60 games a year, but I think it's early to give up on his usefulness.
     
  15. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    What's this "all evidence" of which you speak?
     
  16. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    he'd be perfectly fine in the 7 hole next season. he should be done batting in the top 2.
     
  17. streeter88

    streeter88 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is a great post. Regarding the leadership aspects, I agree we just don't have enough evidence on, though the Machado affair was a serious mess and I am still surprised the repercussions on Machado were so limited given the toll on Pedey this year.

    However, the room for improvement part of the post was the most interesting to me. His baserunning looked like someone who has not yet begun to adjust to an aging body, and that needs to stop. I also agree that some of the overall problems of the team contributed to Pedey's perceived weaknesses. The seeds of improvement on that front are already being sown though:

    • Farrell is now gone, so I suspect the baserunning philosophy will change next year. Here's hoping for a more rational approach to baserunning as opposed to the one this year that seemed to be "aggressiveness at all costs" which suited the younger faster team members, but not Pedey or Hanley
    • Adding a big bat will help make Pedey's OBA heavy production look better. Given DDski's failure to do that last offseason was widely panned and so obviously missed in the 2017 lineup, I cannot believe he will make the same mistake two years running. Also, there is almost certain to be a positive regression in the bulk of the lineup, which will help Pedey to not think he has to carry the team (and maybe some of the "2008 hacks" will go away)
    • New team leadership will also help to salve some of the perceived leadership problems in this past year's club. Again we have so little evidence here, because we cannot see what goes on in the clubhouse, so nothing more to say here
    I know we are not voting here, but my two cents is to keep Pedey. Hope we can keep Nunez too though, or find somone else just like him.
     
  18. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Did you bother reading the post you quoted? Or did you just cut & paste without reading the remainder of the text?

    Feel free to address any of the points mentioned.
     
  19. Red(s)HawksFan

    Red(s)HawksFan Member SoSH Member

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    Put me in the keep Pedroia camp. I put little stock in evaluations of his leadership from outside the team, nor do I think it's even important to the decision making. Any decline or fading he may have done I'm willing to chalk up to a balky knee that was probably never close to 100% after the Machado slide.

    If he can get that right this winter, and come back to be the same defender he's been (his range on a bum knee this year was impressive) and put up another .360+ OBP, he's well worth his relatively cheap deal and a positive contributor to a good team. Ideally, he's a 7-8 hole hitter going forward, but as long as the OBP remains, I can live with him hitting in the top two spots so long as he can be convinced he's not a base stealing threat.
     
  20. scottyno

    scottyno lurker

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    He needs to be worth 6-7 war over the remainder of his deal to be worth it. That seems very likely even if he's limited to 100-120 games going forward. Yeah he's probably done being a star, but people probably thought that 2 years ago and he had a huge year last year.
     
  21. strek1

    strek1 Member SoSH Member

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    Get off the guy's throat and let's see how he starts off next season. He's been hurt a lot. When he's not hurt he hits. We already know he can field. Maybe the knee will never let him be good again. But we owe the guy a shot at seeing if he can manage it after an off season of rest.
     
  22. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    I think we're a bit premature here. When he has been healthy, he hits well. We saw what happened last year when he stayed healthy, and he was hitting well this season before he got hurt.

    As long as the injuries don't kill him in the field, his contract will be fine. His contract starts going down after next season from 16 to 15, then 13 and 12 in 2021. I don't think it'll go underwater unless he just can't stay on the field.

    There are crappy contracts on the books, but this doesn't rank near the top.
     
  23. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope SoSH Member

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    First off - this really isn't going to happen. Dombrowski's style is to wait for holes to appear in the dam then plug them. But of course, the idea of forcing himself to think beyond "let me identify the biggest hole and plug it with the best guy available" approach to team building actually makes me like this idea just to see if DD can be creative about literally anything other than not taking no for an answer (yes, I know this is a skill that a lot of people appreciate). However, the time to do this kind of thing is before the decline. It hardly ever works out to subsidize a productive player off your team just because of future salary. And Pedroia is productive.

    Second - as a practical matter I don't see how this actually creates a net positive for the team, unless you can find a link that says Xander, JBJ, and Mookie all took steps back this year because of Pedroia. Because those are the real problems. Not in the sense that those guys need to be jettisoned, but in the very real sense that they need to perform better in order for this offense to be good. And sure, you can bet on Nunez but I'm not sure I'm willing to jettison Pedroia to take on the bet that the 30 YO guy who just put up his highest stats in literally every meaningful category for any half season of his career is going to be that guy going forward. I mean, the pre Sox Nunez of the last 3 years is an ok player, but basically not quite as much contribution as Pedroia's bad years. So I don't see the point of subsidizing Pedroia out the door just to gamble on Nunez.

    The leadership stuff, ok, let's not make him the manager. I completely agree. I think he's pretty much kind of a bully and a jerk for the most part and probably not a leader of men. Maybe him being the de facto leader was a problem with a "Laissez Faire" type manager like Farrell. But to me that's an easier problem to fix than replacing Pedroia.
     
  24. Kielty's Last Pitch

    Kielty's Last Pitch lurker

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    I think it's way too soon to be having this conversation. If he has the major knee surgery this winter, he'll probably miss a portion of the 2018 season. He'll be back though, and if there's a tolerable bit of pain he'll be able to play through it. Gotta give him at least one year before even thinking of replacing him. He can DH once a week, maybe on the days when Otani pitches.

    As for leadership, none of us has been in the clubhouse. We can't judge leadership skills based on what we see on TV or what we hear from the media.

    What would make Pedroia a better leader? Should he bust up a telephone within inches of Mookie? Should he burst into a press conference to swear about the official scorer?
     
  25. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    There was a general Pedey lovefest on this board until September. I think he played hurt since the Machado take-out in April. But he played when he could, and played well.

    When healthy he is a GG worthy singles/doubles guy with Fenway pull power.

    I've no idea if he's a bad clubhouse guy, but when Tito was around they were best buddies, so I tend to discount he's a general malcontent.

    Maybe he's not wired to be the team leader in Ortiz's absence (one of this team's screaming needs) but he seems to play the game the old school/right way.
     
  26. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    If they had a stud 2nd baseman waiting to break in, I might be more inclined to buy into needing to move him or to convince him to retire. But they've got nothing I want out there every day. Lin and Marrero are fine middle infield depth, but neither should be starting. Marco Hernandez is interesting, but hardly worth pushing even a decimated Pedey aside for. What else is there?

    Brett Netzer is probably the best 2B prospect in the system who is still a prospect (not sure I'd slot him ahead of Hernandez if he was still eligible), but even if he pans out he's 2-3 years away. Chad De La Guerra? Josh Tobias? Neither are ready yet and neither are likely to ever be close to major league starter caliber.

    They could re-sign Nunez as a full time player, I suppose. Though I think his value to a team like the Sox is in taking the Holt role. Speaking of, Holt is toast, so he's not a real option. The rest of the free agent market isn't interesting unless you like Chase Utley, Danney Espinosa or Howie Kendrick.

    As was pointed out above, Pedroia was still a well above average defender after the injury. He'll likely maintain enough value with the glove to be mostly worth the remainder of his contact. The bat is going to be pretty hollow going forward, but if he's hitting in the bottom of the lineup, that's okay.
     
  27. DaveRoberts'Shoes

    DaveRoberts'Shoes Aaron Burr Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  28. nvalvo

    nvalvo Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    This was what worried me. Thanks as always for sharing your expertise.
     
  29. MakeMineMoxie

    MakeMineMoxie Member SoSH Member

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    That was really interesting, thanks.

    This time you've earned it!

    CSA $10.jpg
     
  30. Tangled Up In Red

    Tangled Up In Red Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Umm, is this still a notion? Old school doesn't equal right.
     
  31. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Umm I don't know know if its still a notion or not.

    Pedey plays hard, is not a showy guy, and reminds me of ballplayers of past generations.

    I like him as a ballplayer.

    YMMV
     
  32. Tangled Up In Red

    Tangled Up In Red Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I like him as a ballplayer, too. A shit load.
    As long as you can also like ballplayers who play the game with different sensibilities, different behaviors and different mannerisms, fine. Equal love to the guy who (appears) to play soft, is showy and reminds you of ballplayers of future generations.
     
  33. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Glad to hear you have nothing against a ballplayer who plays old school and the right way.

    I was speaking specifically about Pedroia.

    And i reserve the right to like or dislike any ballplayer I want to like or dislike for any reason I choose.

    Okey dokey.
     
  34. Tangled Up In Red

    Tangled Up In Red Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Define, please, then I can understand.
     
  35. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

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    Good rundown. It's a testament to Pedroia's talent and competitiveness that he's been able to stave off decline for as long as he has, but only the most hardened of optimists would have put money on the proposition that he would finish his contract. It seems highly likely that a moment will come within the next couple of years when he and the organization have to negotiate the end of his tenure here, but I don't think that moment is coming between now and Opening Day. He'll almost certainly start next year in his customary role (aside from batting order position).
     
  36. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    I suspect we like him for many of the same reasons, some of which I've already mentioned..

    Good night.
     
  37. rajendra82

    rajendra82 Member SoSH Member

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    He should be here next year, but batting down in the order, just in front of Xander and the catcher. Xander will hopefully work his way out of the bottom of order next year, but Pedey probably won't.
     
  38. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    Does high OBP low SLG suggest Pedroia batting 9th to "turn the lineup over" as they say? Is that still a legitimate approach?
     
  39. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Agreed. Nothing wrong with him down further in the order. Still provides stellar defense and overall is a net positive. Probably need a better IF backup though because he's gonna miss some time.
     
  40. Puffy

    Puffy Member SoSH Member

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    At this stage, I think the Red Sox just need to deal with this through roster construction that is prepared for extended absences by Pedroia. I'm not sure that Brock Holt is going to fit that bill going forward. Eduardo Nunez was and is a great fit for this team for this reason - seemed to thrive at Fenway and didn't seem to be affected by moving around the infield (although he mostly played 2B for the Sox). If he doesn't find a starting job elsewhere, I hope they find a way to bring him back.
     
  41. Buzzkill Pauley

    Buzzkill Pauley Member SoSH Member

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    I’d suggest 7-8 in order to “lengthen the lineup” with his ability to foul off balls.
     
  42. Number45forever

    Number45forever Member SoSH Member

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    Great blog post, DRS.

    Keeping Nunez and then Marrero/Holt both on the roster next year seems like such a smart idea. Nunez can spell Pedroia at 2B should he miss any extended time and would provide a nice offensive replacement at least. Nunez then can back up 3B, SS, LF too. Hopefully the Sox can sell Nunez on getting ~500 plate appearances as a jack of all trades. He's such an upgrade offensively from Holt/Marrero.
     
  43. Toe Nash

    Toe Nash Member SoSH Member

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    He may not be cooked now but that's sort of irrelevant -- the track record on 2Bs as they approach their mid-30s is not good. Since 1945 there have only been 39 player-seasons from players 34+ with at least 3 WAR and 100 G at 2B. For players 35+ there have been just 21, and Joe Morgan had 4 of those. I don't see Pedroia bucking the trend with how dinged up he's been his whole career.

    He'll probably be decent enough when he's on the field in 2018 and 19 but they're going to need a decent backup now, and probably will have to find another solution in the last two years of his contract.

    The leadership is whatever. I don't think he's any different than he's ever been in that regard.
     
  44. Seabass177

    Seabass177 has an efficient neck SoSH Member

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    Nunez has made $8.7M in his career, has been on four teams, is 30 years old, and is coming off his best season that ended with him being carried off the field because his knee collapsed. He's going to take the biggest, longest contract he can get, and that'll come from a team that has a starting job for him.

    Pedroia will be the starting 2B on this team next season unless he has surgery that knocks him out to start the year. There's no sense in griping about his contract, because he's been severely underpaid his entire career, and is getting paid about market rate for the next four years. My biggest concern with him, and the rest of the team for that matter, is finding a manager that can manage his workload so he plays an effective 120-140 games going forward.
     
  45. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

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    I like Pedroia. The leadership stuff, who knows. Maybe he felt he was the de facto leader because he was the resident veteran, but after spending a career in a clubhouse with guys like Ortiz and Wakefield around, he didn't really have any experience in that role and he didn't warm to it. He always seemed, to me, to be more of a mascot/sparkplug type of on-field "leader", and less of a "let's have a meeting and talk it out" type of guy. The team probably needs both.

    As for his performance, I think we're just going to have to resign ourselves to the notion that the Pedroia of old is gone. He's not going to be an All Star calibre guy anymore. Instead of being our awesome 2nd Basemen, he's going to be a guy who's "good enough." I hope even that can last 2 seasons, but given the Doc's prognosis above (fascinating post, by the way), I'm not holding my breath.
     
  46. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,525
    The trade Pedey argument comes up at least once a year. I don't think he's cooked, but will be in the next few years given his age and recent injuries. I also don't think his contract is all that prohibitive, although it is front loaded. $16 mil in 18, $15 in 19, $13 in 20, $12 in 21.

    Not that it should really play in the decision making regarding Pedey, but Michael Chavis is best suited to play 2b.
     
  47. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,677
    The big thing they need is a manager that's going to force Pedroia to take days off, especially after he gets hurt. You know Pedey will be passionate about staying in the lineup to his physical detriment. Whoever runs the team next year needs to explain to him up front that he's getting 1 day off a week whether he likes it or not and that when he gets hurt the team needs to make sure he's fully healthy again. We keep seeing these guys playing hurt and playing fucking awful. Get out of the lineup and heal up. Your job will still be there when you get back.
     
  48. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,525
    If he sits out a game a week, he'd be around 125-130 games played. With the board's desire to rest Xander more, they'd need to invest in a backup MI unless the plan is Brock Holt and Tzu Wei Lin. Lin reverted back to a pumpkin in AAA and Holt was awful. I can't see Nunez signing without a guaranteed job even though he'd probably end up starting 130 games a season floating around the diamond for the Sox.
     
  49. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,627
    If I recall it was the plan with Pedroia early. They had a bunch of off days, he played 10, got 2 days off due to an off day and a day off, and he got hurt in Baltimore on 4/21 so we'll never know how it would have gone as the season progressed.

    As to "getting out of the lineup and healing up," that sounds good in theory. But we've all watched baseball a long time and not all injuries are the same. A hamstring is pretty easy. It will heal. But with an injury like Bogaerts or Betts, where only the offseason will let it heal, there isn't much to do except for the team and player to figure out how to manage it. Getting out of the lineup and healing isn't really an option there.
     
  50. Kielty's Last Pitch

    Kielty's Last Pitch lurker

    Messages:
    118
    3 years ago we had a damn good 2B come up from Pawtucket. They converted him to OF, no reason why they couldn't convert him back. He wears #50, nice guy, avid bowler.
     

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