Price is right

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Yeah, agree. I am merely pointing out that Sale has a pretty significant/depressing 1st half/2nd half career split, whereas Price has been slightly better in the second half over his career. So that's the source of the perceptions, or lack thereof, which feeds into forgiving Sale but not Price. One good run this October will blow all that away though.
Chris Sale's 1st half/2nd half splits, of this career:

1st half: 2.74 era, 0.97 whip, 10.5 k/9
2nd half: 3.28 era, 1.14 whip, 10.9 k/9

I mean, wouldn't we all be happy if he puts up those 2nd half numbers this year? Chris Sale's "depressing" 2nd half career splits would put any pitcher in the CYA discussion.
 

Bergs

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Price is a guy who ended a potential World Series run for the Boston Red Sox, with an extra-innings win and a memorable game 7 save.

He then want on to spend several years as a face-of-the-franchise type guy for a division rival, including getting in a beef with David Ortiz.

Most of us have spent a lot of years disliking the guy, so it's easy to see where those feelings could linger somewhat. Sale has no such baggage for us as a fanbase.
 

chawson

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Manny got some flack for being a bonehead, but nothing egregious.
Ortiz was, is, and will continue to be a Boston sports icon.
Crawford got a free pass, despite having perhaps the worst contract in MLB history, until he became obsessed with Boston after he had already left.
Sandoval was criticized for his conditioning, and rightfully so.
Price is a victim of his own invention. The Eckersley fiasco. Twitter wars. Not letting things go. He's essentially feeding the trolls.
Hanley was never treated poorly, and has never indicated that he was.

How is any of this any different than the general animosity towards John Lackey (he's an asshole, he's a bad teammate, he's divorcing his wife who has cancer, he's rude to the media), Beckett (he's fat, he doesn't care, golf, chicken and beer), J.D. Drew (overpaid, doesn't care), or Ellsbury (he's soft, fragile)?
No, this is silly and dripping with assumptions. Price didn't "invent" the Eckersley "fiasco." He told Eckersley that his comments weren't appreciated, and that sentiment was echoed by the team.

Also, do we really need to police athletes' Twitter accounts this hard? Price's great Twitter crime was when he wrote "SAVE IT NERDS" after a bad playoff game in 2013. Tons of athletes are vocal on Twitter. Off the top of my head, I can think of Dexter Fowler, Brandon McCarthy and Josh Donaldson who all engage critically with fans and media. For chrissakes, let them be human. Would anyone give Gronk shit if he tweeted "SAVE IT NERDS" after a game?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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It sure FEELS like Price has been a disappointment, and the fact is, he has been, at least somewhat.

Before coming to Boston, here were his career numbers:

.650 win pct, 218 g, 1441.2 ip, 6.6 ip/g, 3.09 era, 1.13 whip, 8.6 k/9

With Boston, here are his numbers:

.636 win pct, 62 g, 367.0 ip, 5.9 ip/g, 3.87 era, 1.21 whip, 8.9 k/9

So his numbers haven't been TOO far off his career norms, and yet still.... a little disappointing. Part of it is that he averaged 216.2 ip per season for the 5 years leading up to his time in Boston. After pitching 230 in his first year, he was hurt and only threw 74.2 innings his second year.

And of course it's frustrating hearing about carpel tunnel syndrome, or allergies, or not being able to pitch in the cold, and not doing well against the Yankees. But on the whole, his actual numbers have been pretty solid. Part of it is his contract, of course. You don't pay $30 million a year for a guy who has been hurt and who puts up a 3.87 era and 1.21 whip for you.

Lately he's been really solid: 4 g, 25.1 ip, 2.49 era, 1.07 whip, 9.6 k/9

THAT is a guy we'd all be very happy to have going forward!
 

Adrian's Dome

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No, this is silly and dripping with assumptions. Price didn't "invent" the Eckersley "fiasco." He told Eckersley that his comments weren't appreciated, and that sentiment was echoed by the team.

Also, do we really need to police athletes' Twitter accounts this hard? Price's great Twitter crime was when he wrote "SAVE IT NERDS" after a bad playoff game in 2013. Tons of athletes are vocal on Twitter. Off the top of my head, I can think of Dexter Fowler, Brandon McCarthy and Josh Donaldson who all engage critically with fans and media. For chrissakes, let them be human. Would anyone give Gronk shit if he tweeted "SAVE IT NERDS" after a game?
No, it's all correct, and Gronk absolutely would (rightfully) get a ration of shit for saying that if he blew a big playoff game. Especially from the media.

Price has always shown he doesn't deal well with criticism and that it bothers him. That's part of it, the division rival thing is another, the massive contract yet another ingredient, the Ortiz beef dressing on top. Personally I see him as a guy that didn't especially want to come here, but he did because it was the most dollars. Is what it is, and I can't definitively say I'd have done it differently, but it definitely plays into the public perception of him.
 

chawson

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No, it's all correct, and Gronk absolutely would (rightfully) get a ration of shit for saying that if he blew a big playoff game. Especially from the media.

Price has always shown he doesn't deal well with criticism and that it bothers him. That's part of it, the division rival thing is another, the massive contract yet another ingredient, the Ortiz beef dressing on top. Personally I see him as a guy that didn't especially want to come here, but he did because it was the most dollars. Is what it is, and I can't definitively say I'd have done it differently, but it definitely plays into the public perception of him.
How you personally see his motivations is speculative and meaningless, and the way you pivot as though it were factual in the very next line is part of the problem.
 

EricFeczko

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It sure FEELS like Price has been a disappointment, and the fact is, he has been, at least somewhat.

Before coming to Boston, here were his career numbers:

.650 win pct, 218 g, 1441.2 ip, 6.6 ip/g, 3.09 era, 1.13 whip, 8.6 k/9

With Boston, here are his numbers:

.636 win pct, 62 g, 367.0 ip, 5.9 ip/g, 3.87 era, 1.21 whip, 8.9 k/9

So his numbers haven't been TOO far off his career norms, and yet still.... a little disappointing. Part of it is that he averaged 216.2 ip per season for the 5 years leading up to his time in Boston. After pitching 230 in his first year, he was hurt and only threw 74.2 innings his second year.

And of course it's frustrating hearing about carpel tunnel syndrome, or allergies, or not being able to pitch in the cold, and not doing well against the Yankees. But on the whole, his actual numbers have been pretty solid. Part of it is his contract, of course. You don't pay $30 million a year for a guy who has been hurt and who puts up a 3.87 era and 1.21 whip for you.

Lately he's been really solid: 4 g, 25.1 ip, 2.49 era, 1.07 whip, 9.6 k/9

THAT is a guy we'd all be very happy to have going forward!
I'll be very happy IF that's what we get moving forward. However, like others here I'm concerned about his health. The signs/symptoms of losing pitches randomly suggests potential nerve problems, possibly relating to an arm injury (i.e. thoracic outlet syndrome, or some prodromal precursor -- not sure I'm buying carpal tunnel just yet). If this is true, then I expect his performance to degrade considerably over the next year or two. Because the contract is back-loaded, I cynically suspect that the red sox will be on the hook for his "bad years", which limits financial flexible more than a front-loaded contract.
 

brandonchristensen

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How many highly paid dark-skinned players have the Sox had in the last 10 years?

Manny
Ortiz
Crawford
Sandoval
Price
Hanley

How have the Boston sports media done with those?
Trying to think how many highly paid white skinned players they've had for comparison...

Looked at B-Ref to remind me of some teams in the past decade...

JD Drew - his career had one highlight - the ALCS grand slam, but he wasn't loved
Mike Lowell - after he re-signed, people stopped loving him
Dice-K - not white, but other than one year - he was often maligned
Jason Bay - liked for year one, disliked for year two
Dustin Pedroia - perennial fan favorite, but his health has kept him off the field which has had people question his deal
Josh Beckett - odd year Beckett was loved, even year was hated - showed up with stomach flab to camp, called lazy
John Lackey - hated massively until he redeemed himself in 2013, left on really bad terms
Matt Clement - I guess he's older than 10 years but he had a good first half, and then got no love going forward after getting hit by a line drive
Keith Foulke - Older, again...but was post season hero, and then booed in year 2 when he clearly destroyed his arm for the Sox to win them a WS
Jake Peavy - came and left in favorable circumstances, no real complaints that I remember
Clay Buchholz - was loved, almost put it together but injuries kept him from achieving what most people hoped, he was dead to us by the end
Adrian Gonzalez - he was part of a very toxic squad and was a necessary casualty in the Punto trade, was loved the first year but didn't perform in year 2 as expected, wasn't generally missed
Bobby Jenks - Hated fully
Papelbon - Generally loved I think. Him leaving was a business decision, but he did yearly deals so he was never an albatross
Aaron Hill - WE PAID HIM 12 MILLION DOLLARS???
Craig Kimbrel - Still performing, still thought of highly
Rick Porcello - He's been living on a roller coaster, his 20m deal made no sense and then he won a Cy Young. Then last year he sucked, and this year he's good again. Similar to the even/odd year Beckett.
Koji Uehara - Again, not white - loved all the way through (except his first appearance with the homer against Baltimore)
Chris Sale - mostly loved, at least when he performs

Personally it feels like, if you don't perform to your expectations (which is typically based on your salary), you're going to have a bad time in Boston.
 

Adrian's Dome

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How you personally see his motivations is speculative and meaningless, and the way you pivot as though it were factual in the very next line is part of the problem.
So you're saying Price would've signed here if Boston's offer was 20m less than the highest?

Dance around it all you want, but we all know the answer.
 

soxeast

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It is funny how he was "punished" for the one start in the ALDS, but no one really kicked Chris Sale for his puke-fest in Game 1 ALDS last year. I remember the drum-thumping for a "true ace" after that 2016 postseason but don't recall it this past winter. Personally, I'm happy to have both guys pitching for the Sox so long as they're healthy. A post-season rotation fronted by those two can stand up against anyone else in the league.
You aren't trying to compare their season's are you? Sale's WAR last year was 7.7 per fangraphs while Price's was 4.4. Sale had an MVP caliber year. I'm not knocking Price's year. But Sale's year was beastly. Price's was not on the scale of 7.7 WAR of Sale. I hope this doesn't get twisted into I said Price stinks. But Sale's season was beastly. A 4.4 WAR is not really beastly.

In addiiton as a minor point, Sale was "spared" because many felt as if the manager was being an idiot. I believe on this very site someone brought up stats from savant or wherever - how Sale's stuff was fading. I specifically remember someone posting how his slider flattened badly in the summer as well as month over month it deteriorated.. Yet the manager kept throwing him out there. And he still had a 7.7 WAR. Price was not beastly in 2016. HIS WAR was tied for 13/14 in the league for pitching. Sale's 7.7 WAR was only behind Trout I believe. .
 

timlinin8th

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Would anyone give Gronk shit if he tweeted "SAVE IT NERDS" after a game?
Yes? People were digging into all kinds of alternate non-PatriotWay meanings to some of his recent tweets this offseason.
Personally it feels like, if you don't perform to your expectations (which is typically based on your salary), you're going to have a bad time in Boston.
Yeah, the expectations placed on high-salary players are unreasonable, and often players who were darlings while playing on cheap contracts become maligned when they receive their big contracts (i.e. Nomar becoming “surly”)

Where I do agree with the crowd who believes there is thin racism is that when the media DOES decide to attack a player, they often do using stereotypical tropes, mostly because they are lazy and its the lowest denominator of reporting.
 

brandonchristensen

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Yes? People were digging into all kinds of alternate non-PatriotWay meanings to some of his recent tweets this offseason.

Yeah, the expectations placed on high-salary players are unreasonable, and often players who were darlings while playing on cheap contracts become maligned when they receive their big contracts (i.e. Nomar becoming “surly”)

Where I do agree with the crowd who believes there is thin racism is that when the media DOES decide to attack a player, they often do using stereotypical tropes, mostly because they are lazy and its the lowest denominator of reporting.
To be fair - Nomar was being surly.
 

chrisfont9

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Chris Sale's 1st half/2nd half splits, of this career:

1st half: 2.74 era, 0.97 whip, 10.5 k/9
2nd half: 3.28 era, 1.14 whip, 10.9 k/9

I mean, wouldn't we all be happy if he puts up those 2nd half numbers this year? Chris Sale's "depressing" 2nd half career splits would put any pitcher in the CYA discussion.
Well I care about the ones he put up for the Sox, and after a strong July here's his August/September/October for last year:

August 2 2 .500 4.38 1.054 WHIP
Sept/Oct 2 2 .500 3.72 1.345 WHIP

His split was less pronounced in 2016 and really bad in 2015, so if when he was young he had no second half splits, that doesn't alleviate my concern.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Well I care about the ones he put up for the Sox, and after a strong July here's his August/September/October for last year:

August 2 2 .500 4.38 1.054 WHIP
Sept/Oct 2 2 .500 3.72 1.345 WHIP

His split was less pronounced in 2016 and really bad in 2015, so if when he was young he had no second half splits, that doesn't alleviate my concern.
If a 4.38 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP defines your crap months, nobody should be worrying about you. At all. That's still a good pitcher, just not an elite one.

I mean, for the love of all that's holy and various things that aren't, Pedro Martinez in 1999 had a worse month than that (July, 5.03 ERA, 1.42 WHIP). And that's arguably the best single year by a starting pitcher in the history of the game.
 

TFisNEXT

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You aren't trying to compare their season's are you? Sale's WAR last year was 7.7 per fangraphs while Price's was 4.4. Sale had an MVP caliber year. I'm not knocking Price's year. But Sale's year was beastly. Price's was not on the scale of 7.7 WAR of Sale. I hope this doesn't get twisted into I said Price stinks. But Sale's season was beastly. A 4.4 WAR is not really beastly.

In addiiton as a minor point, Sale was "spared" because many felt as if the manager was being an idiot. I believe on this very site someone brought up stats from savant or wherever - how Sale's stuff was fading. I specifically remember someone posting how his slider flattened badly in the summer as well as month over month it deteriorated.. Yet the manager kept throwing him out there. And he still had a 7.7 WAR. Price was not beastly in 2016. HIS WAR was tied for 13/14 in the league for pitching. Sale's 7.7 WAR was only behind Trout I believe. .
Prob a subjective argument on what "beastly" means, but the 13th best WAR for a pitcher in all of baseball (and 7th in the AL) is pretty damned good. It's not 2017 Chris Sale good, but Chris Sale is a ridiculous bar.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
So you're saying Price would've signed here if Boston's offer was 20m less than the highest?
So the bar you're holding him to is that he should have been so hell-bent on coming to Boston that he'd have taken 10% less to make it happen? And if he wouldn't have done that, it indicates a suspect lack of enthusiasm about playing here?

Can you name me a free agent that we know offered a discount of that magnitude to play for any team he wasn't already playing for? Like, ever? (Hometown discounts are a different thing; it's rational to give up a little money to stay in a situation where you know you're comfortable.)
 

Adrian's Dome

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So the bar you're holding him to is that he should have been so hell-bent on coming to Boston that he'd have taken 10% less to make it happen? And if he wouldn't have done that, it indicates a suspect lack of enthusiasm about playing here?

Can you name me a free agent that we know offered a discount of that magnitude to play for any team he wasn't already playing for? Like, ever? (Hometown discounts are a different thing; it's rational to give up a little money to stay in a situation where you know you're comfortable.)
No, the bar I'm holding him to is "the only reason he's here is because Boston offered him the most money," not anything close to the shit you just pulled out of who knows where. It's not exactly a radical stance.

What you said was the basic equivalent of "dancing around the point", so thanks for doing exactly what I expected chawson to do.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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No, the bar I'm holding him to is "the only reason he's here is because Boston offered him the most money," not anything close to the shit you just pulled out of who knows where. It's not exactly a radical stance.
And that reason for coming to Boston is something to be held against him? Or is somehow proof positive that he doesn't really want to be here? Seems a presumptive and specious argument to make.

I think Savin's point is valid...how many free agents don't go to the highest bidder aside from those going back to their previous team? Are they all unhappy about where they ended up because they chased the money? If their experience is not all sunshine and rainbows, should it be assumed that they all regret their choice and wish they were elsewhere?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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If a 4.38 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP defines your crap months, nobody should be worrying about you. At all. That's still a good pitcher, just not an elite one.

I mean, for the love of all that's holy and various things that aren't, Pedro Martinez in 1999 had a worse month than that (July, 5.03 ERA, 1.42 WHIP). And that's arguably the best single year by a starting pitcher in the history of the game.
That July 1999 month consisted of three starts. Here were those three starts:

8.0 ip, 7 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 5 k
8.0 ip, 7 h, 3 r, 3 er, 2 bb, 14 k
3.2 ip, 12 h, 9 r, 7 er, 0 bb, 3 k

That one outing was completely inexplicable. It was to the Florida Marlins, who came into the game in Fenway with a record of 34-58. Alex Gonzalez (!) went 3-5 that day. Preston Wilson also went 3-5.

Not that you can do this (but watch me anyway), but if you remove that one single start from Pedro's season, here are his final numbers that year:

209.2 ip, 148 h, 47 r, 42 er, 37 bb, 310 k, 1.80 era, 0.88 whip, 13.3 k/9

That single game impacted his season ERA by a whopping 0.27. Just an utterly impossible game. And yet it happened. Baseball is crazy.
 

chrisfont9

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If a 4.38 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP defines your crap months, nobody should be worrying about you. At all. That's still a good pitcher, just not an elite one.

I mean, for the love of all that's holy and various things that aren't, Pedro Martinez in 1999 had a worse month than that (July, 5.03 ERA, 1.42 WHIP). And that's arguably the best single year by a starting pitcher in the history of the game.
Why are you making this into an argument about whether Sale is any good? I was making a point about how maybe Price got more shit for his failed outing in the 2016 playoffs than Sale did in 2017 because we'd seen Sale falter in the second half so it wasn't a shock. He had four or five bad outings after August 1, depending on your threshold. It wasn't a shock. That's all.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
No, the bar I'm holding him to is "the only reason he's here is because Boston offered him the most money," not anything close to the shit you just pulled out of who knows where. It's not exactly a radical stance.

What you said was the basic equivalent of "dancing around the point", so thanks for doing exactly what I expected chawson to do.
It's not dancing around the point so much as denying that there is a point. Going to the team that offers the most money is the obvious thing to do, unless there's a very good and specific reason to do otherwise. When you say "it definitely plays into the public perception of him" -- what's the "it"? Why is this eminently rational behavior remotely significant?
 

nvalvo

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So the bar you're holding him to is that he should have been so hell-bent on coming to Boston that he'd have taken 10% less to make it happen? And if he wouldn't have done that, it indicates a suspect lack of enthusiasm about playing here?

Can you name me a free agent that we know offered a discount of that magnitude to play for any team he wasn't already playing for? Like, ever? (Hometown discounts are a different thing; it's rational to give up a little money to stay in a situation where you know you're comfortable.)
Hanley? "Know" is a bit strong, but MLBTR had him projected at 6/$132 and he signed here for 4/$88 with the $22m option.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/red-sox-agree-to-terms-with-hanley-ramirez.html
 

nvalvo

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By that criteria, JD Martinez signed a lesser deal than he could have gotten too. MLBTR projected him to get 6/150. Projections are guesses, not a passed up deal.
I hear you, but the circumstances were different. Cherington expressed surprise that Hanley was interested, and it wasn't a historic cratering FA market.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I hear you, but the circumstances were different. Cherington expressed surprise that Hanley was interested, and it wasn't a historic cratering FA market.
Honestly, I do think Hanley is a player who likely left money on the table to sign where he wanted to go rather the highest bidder. But the proof isn't in the projection, I think it's in the fact that by all reports, he approached the Sox before he really could solicit bids league-wide (he expressed how much he desired to return to his first franchise and play with David Ortiz). However, we don't know for sure that he took a lesser deal because he never really got any other offers.
 

soxeast

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Prob a subjective argument on what "beastly" means, but the 13th best WAR for a pitcher in all of baseball (and 7th in the AL) is pretty damned good. It's not 2017 Chris Sale good, but Chris Sale is a ridiculous bar.
That's what I said before - I hope no one would say I thought Price stunk. His 4.4 WAR according to Fangraphs is lower-mid way for an all-star. If you are going to call Price "beastly" then what do you do for the superstar? And what do you do for the MVP candidate? You can't put the mid-level all-star on the same "plane" with the MVP candidate.

Going back to my prior post -- the context of it-- I was asking a poster if they were comparing Price's 2016 vs Sale's 2017. The poster seemed annoyed that Sale didn't get a big backlash for his playoff performance as Price did. Well in part- that's because Sale truly was beastly during the reg season while Price was "just" very very, very good., right? If you say Price was "beastly" as a mid-level all-star, then what was Sale?

https://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/
 

soxeast

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Why are you making this into an argument about whether Sale is any good? I was making a point about how maybe Price got more shit for his failed outing in the 2016 playoffs than Sale did in 2017 because we'd seen Sale falter in the second half so it wasn't a shock. He had four or five bad outings after August 1, depending on your threshold. It wasn't a shock. That's all.
This is so wrong. You're seriously trying to compare the reg season of Price vs the 2017 reg.s season of Sale? A guy that had a 7.7 WAR and you think in some manner he should get a similar blasting as the guy the year prior with a 4.4 WAR? Ridiculous.

Price had a fine year in 2016, but some of you are so transparent with your homerism for Price-- incredible. I have a certain homersim too. When Price is on the mound he's my man. But to expect Sale should get similar backlash vs Price because one keeps blinders on of Sale's 2017 performance vs Price's 2016 is just outrageous.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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This is so wrong. You're seriously trying to compare the reg season of Price vs the 2017 reg.s season of Sale? A guy that had a 7.7 WAR and you think in some manner he should get a similar blasting as the guy the year prior with a 4.4 WAR? Ridiculous.

Price had a fine year in 2016, but some of you are so transparent with your homerism for Price-- incredible. I have a certain homersim too. When Price is on the mound he's my man. But to expect Sale should get similar backlash vs Price because one keeps blinders on of Sale's 2017 performance vs Price's 2016 is just outrageous.
No one is arguing that Sale deserved similar backlash. They're (or at least I was) arguing that the backlash against Price was unwarranted and over the top. The whole fucking concept of "backlash" for a single poor performance is ridiculous. Even the best pitchers of all time have poor outings from time to time. Sometimes those come in the playoffs. Shouldn't even be a surprise because the team on the side of the diamond in a post-season game is typically a pretty good team in its own right.
 

chrisfont9

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This is so wrong. You're seriously trying to compare the reg season of Price vs the 2017 reg.s season of Sale? A guy that had a 7.7 WAR and you think in some manner he should get a similar blasting as the guy the year prior with a 4.4 WAR? Ridiculous.

Price had a fine year in 2016, but some of you are so transparent with your homerism for Price-- incredible. I have a certain homersim too. When Price is on the mound he's my man. But to expect Sale should get similar backlash vs Price because one keeps blinders on of Sale's 2017 performance vs Price's 2016 is just outrageous.
You completely misunderstand my point. We were having a discussion a few days ago about why it was that people got down on Price for his 2016 playoff outing and didn't get so down on Sale last year. Somehow you translated that into "we should all be mad at Sale" which is completely ridiculous and not anywhere close to anything I've said.

The actual point, if you need to hear it once again, was that Sale's outing wasn't a shock, thanks to a bit of a second-half-decline trend that several people here had noticed and discussed late in the season last year, as well as a few brutal outings he had in August and September. Sale was overused in Chicago and grossly mismanaged again by Farrell, so when he didn't look sharp against the Astros, it was not a shock. Price, by contrast, did NOT have such a trend developing. All he has is his poor postseason track record, so people gave him more shit than they would give Sale a year later when he flopped in the 2016 postseason. Whether it is justified for ANYONE to give shit to either of them was not a point I raised at any time, because I personally find it ridiculous to pillory someone for a single bad game against the best team(s). Is that clear enough this time?
 
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Adrian's Dome

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It's not dancing around the point so much as denying that there is a point. Going to the team that offers the most money is the obvious thing to do, unless there's a very good and specific reason to do otherwise. When you say "it definitely plays into the public perception of him" -- what's the "it"? Why is this eminently rational behavior remotely significant?
It's significant because it's one of the multitude of reasons (if not the biggest one) he isn't "liked", because he's being paid to be the best pitcher in baseball, and he isn't. The fact that he gets sarcastically defensive about it sure doesn't help, either.

Salary is relative to expectations in fans' eyes.

If David Price gets annoyed by said expectations and can't muster out a "I sucked" (just like Chris Sale did last time he got shelled,) then maybe he shouldn't have opted for the huge contract in the huge market. THAT'S the point.
 

JohntheBaptist

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David Price gets sarcastically defensive dealing with the braindead idiots that pass for sports media in Boston, something he was likely warned about but couldn't fully appreciate until he arrived. Some find having to deal with stupidity like that exhausting. He seems like a positive, genuine guy in instances where he is directly communicating himself (social media). He seemed to be enjoying himself and putting himself out there in the community just over a week ago.

Not understanding the way markets work and using his salary as a reason to make perfect the enemy of good, constantly, seems like it would be pretty annoying. Every time I hear anyone express dislike for Price its this and that gripe about his attitude, but then--"fans expect more for that salary." The salary element as a driving factor is nonsense. Porcello gets ~$25 million to be a solid #3, but he isn't rubbed the wrong way by the press so its all fine.

I will genuinely never understand caring what a player says after a game. I don't think I'm alone, and I'd bet I'm joined in that by David Price. Because the Boston sports fan scene picks it apart obsessively does not make it normal or an inevitability that everyone has to be cool with.
 

leetinsley38

Member
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Aug 24, 2005
764
SF Bay Area
If their was a Death Pool but instead for the next sports figure to be outed for defending himself via burner twitter accounts, David Price would be the consensus #1 pick.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,038
David Price gets sarcastically defensive dealing with the braindead idiots that pass for sports media in Boston, something he was likely warned about but couldn't fully appreciate until he arrived. Some find having to deal with stupidity like that exhausting. He seems like a positive, genuine guy in instances where he is directly communicating himself (social media). He seemed to be enjoying himself and putting himself out there in the community just over a week ago.

Not understanding the way markets work and using his salary as a reason to make perfect the enemy of good, constantly, seems like it would be pretty annoying. Every time I hear anyone express dislike for Price its this and that gripe about his attitude, but then--"fans expect more for that salary." The salary element as a driving factor is nonsense. Porcello gets ~$25 million to be a solid #3, but he isn't rubbed the wrong way by the press so its all fine.

I will genuinely never understand caring what a player says after a game. I don't think I'm alone, and I'd bet I'm joined in that by David Price. Because the Boston sports fan scene picks it apart obsessively does not make it normal or an inevitability that everyone has to be cool with.
After 2004, Tito basically openly mocked the press about how he had used himself as a lightning rod for criticism to deflect it from others because he could take it and that was his job.

Price seems really well liked by his fellow players. I wonder if he does that too—that would be an amazing bit of irony.
 

Van Everyman

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SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
If David Price gets annoyed by said expectations and can't muster out a "I sucked" (just like Chris Sale did last time he got shelled,) then maybe he shouldn't have opted for the huge contract in the huge market. THAT'S the point.
Don’t think he had too many opportunities last year because he was hurt but in 2016, when Price pitched a ton of innings and had several games where he’d give up runs in his last inning, he was super accountable in his postgame comments to the media.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,277
Yeah, it’s good to see him play well. Him and EdRo are carrying the team these last couple of weeks.

Edit:
I’ve never seen a cross thread quote before.
Sorry, I’m just getting a bit annoyed at how much shit Price gets. While some may be warranted, it seems like he gets shit on after every start, unless he throws a CG shutout. And after his performance last playoffs he gets more slack from me.

I mean even sale when facing .500 plus teams was crap last season.

When facing a team with a .500 record or below he had a 2.31 ERA

when facing a +500 team which was 9 games last season he had a 4 + era yet he faced no ire

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=salech01&t=p&year=2017
 
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teddywingman

Looks like Zach Galifianakis
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2009
11,168
a basement on the hill
I was impressed with his effort last night. He kept them in the game, despite not having his best stuff. 6 innings with only 1 walk and 5 hits, against that lineup, is more than decent.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,277
I was impressed with his effort last night. He kept them in the game, despite not having his best stuff. 6 innings with only 1 walk and 5 hits, against that lineup, is more than decent.
agreed.... Hopefully he can keep this streak up
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
last 7: 44.1ip, 14bb/47k, 2.64 era. Hitters slashing .205/.272/.314.

Assuming he keeps this up for the rest of the year, do people want him to opt out or in?
 

Devizier

Member
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Jul 3, 2000
19,470
Somewhere
last 7: 44.1ip, 14bb/47k, 2.64 era. Hitters slashing .205/.272/.314.

Assuming he keeps this up for the rest of the year, do people want him to opt out or in?
If he keeps it up all year, he would finish the year with a ~3 ERA, 180Ks and decent number of innings pitched.

That's a solid year! He'll also be 33 years old. I would take the opt out every day and twice on Sunday.
 

soxeast

New Member
Aug 12, 2017
206
Sorry, I’m just getting a bit annoyed at how much shit Price gets. While some may be warranted, it seems like he gets shit on after every start, unless he throws a CG shutout. And after his performance last playoffs he gets more slack from me.

I mean even sale when facing .500 plus teams was crap last season.

When facing a team with a .500 record or below he had a 2.31 ERA

when facing a +500 team which was 9 games last season he had a 4 + era yet he faced no ire

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=salech01&t=p&year=2017

I get annoyed at posts like this. Sale had the highest WAR for pitchers in all of the AL last year (2nd most in baseball) and posters such as yourself feel a need to tear him down so you can build up Price. Sale had the 2nd highest WAR IN ALL OF BASEBALL last year according to Fangraphs. So you are looking to compare that to Price's 2016 or his 2018? Otherwise what's your purpose to tear into 2017 Sale? It seems it can only be to build up Price. You realize Sale's season of 2017 was super, right? Price had a really really good year in 2016, but was it super? So why compare them while trying to tear down Sale?

Can you provide any links based on your comment above in bold for the shit he gets on the mound over his last several starts? I wonder if some of you invent things because you don't like us fans who dislike the man before and after games but like the player on the mound during the game. Can you provide links for shit he has been getting on the mound lately for his recent run of terrific starts?
 
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