Potential Red Sox manager candidates

MikeM

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Dusty Baker out in Washington; Cora on the radar.

If you want Cora, be happy that Washington does not appear to value managers highly and does not pay them well. Even though Lerners are wealthiest owners in mlb per Forbes. Cora is no dummy; this has to factor in to his thinking.
IDK, they are also all but guaranteeing a first year divisional title to put on your resume. If the money is at least close it's probably the better overall job opportunity for Cora imo were it to get offered.

Or at least that's what I'm thinking/hoping if I'm Ausmus atm.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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IDK, they are also all but guaranteeing a first year divisional title to put on your resume. If the money is at least close it's probably the better overall job opportunity for Cora imo were it to get offered.

Or at least that's what I'm thinking/hoping if I'm Ausmus atm.
Is it really a better job? Sure, easier path to a division title right out of the gate, but they've won four of the last six division titles and still have fired three managers in that span. Job security seems specious at best in DC.

Boston is more of a pressure cooker and expectations are of course high. But I have to think barring epic disaster (like 2012 or 2014-2015 type results), you're likely to last more than two years in Boston. Not sure if that makes it necessarily a better job, but perhaps a more attractive job.
 

santadevil

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Dusty Baker out in Washington; Cora on the radar.

If you want Cora, be happy that Washington does not appear to value managers highly and does not pay them well. Even though Lerners are wealthiest owners in mlb per Forbes. Cora is no dummy; this has to factor in to his thinking.
Nits, but I see the Giants owner as being number 1, but even then, I think the Blue Jays owners have the biggest financial backing in all of the MLB, having a public company own them.
But, we're just talking a billion or two.

This almost seems like a panic move by Washington, hoping to throw their hat in the ring for Cora at the last minute, which might be too little, too late
 

Kun Aguero

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What does an owners "personal wealth" have to do with ANYTHING related to the team? Other than the initial purchase of that team? NO owner does, or should even think about, spending their OWN money to finance any aspect of a team. You spend the revenues the team generates. Why do you think the Red Sox owners became involved with the EPL, or NASCAR? To generate much needed additional REVENUES. This allowed them much greater financial flexibility to compete with the enormous Yankee revenue juggernaut. I see this in regards to payroll a lot too and it drives me insane. ANY owner who dips into his own pocket to pay his/her players, or manager, isn't going to be a "wealthy owner" for long. They will be neither in very short order.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Given the regular season success and ensuing playoff failures, I think the pressure to win may be at least as great in DC as the "pressure cooker" of Boston. Maybe even more so, since they don't have any championships in memory like the Sox do. They may not have the same pressure from the media, but they also have a more tenuous grip on fan support and attendance that could wane under a win/lose/repeat cycle. They really do need to break their playoff curse. (and I say all this as someone who lives in the area and supports the Nats, who are now linked with the Caps as regular season winners/playoff losers).
 

sean1562

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Dusty's contract was up, and he hadn't done anything amazing with that club. Two NL East division crowns is not a huge deal with that roster and the weak competition. He had to make it past the NLDS to get another contract and he didnt.

Maybe a John Farrell landing spot?
 

dcmissle

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What does an owners "personal wealth" have to do with ANYTHING related to the team? Other than the initial purchase of that team? NO owner does, or should even think about, spending their OWN money to finance any aspect of a team. You spend the revenues the team generates. Why do you think the Red Sox owners became involved with the EPL, or NASCAR? To generate much needed additional REVENUES. This allowed them much greater financial flexibility to compete with the enormous Yankee revenue juggernaut. I see this in regards to payroll a lot too and it drives me insane. ANY owner who dips into his own pocket to pay his/her players, or manager, isn't going to be a "wealthy owner" for long. They will be neither in very short order.
Because a few million dollars is literally pocket change to the Lerners, as opposed to the $400 MM Harper is forecast to command. And the Lerners will pay through the nose for players -- see Scherzer, and the Strasburg extension and the inaugural Jason Werth contract. So we are talking about scrimping on something most people think is pretty important. They lost Bud Black over money alone -- he was offered an insulting deal, turned it down, then Dusty was hired.

There is more background. The average manager tenure in DC is about 2 years. No team has burned through more managers during the relevant period save the Marlins.

The strategy, if there is one, is incoherent. If you think managers are overvalued, you hire a young guy and run the franchise like Billy Beane, calling shots from the executive suite. You do not hire Dusty Baker.

Nightingale just on local radio -- this was the owners' call, not Rizzo's.

This opening makes sense for Cora only if he uses them like ownership uses others. Agree to a two year deal on short money, win, and then move on to another franchise.
 

MuzzyField

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Is there any reason not to think that the Sox and Cora already have a deal and can't announce it (for obvious reasons) yet? If he's the top choice, you close the deal... and wait. It happens in the NFL each and every January.
 

dcmissle

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The Gardenhire hire was announced today. My understanding is that hire announcements are frowned on during the WS, but that's the only limitation. So I don't think it's a done deal. Getting someone aboard sooner than later so you can fill out the coaching staff seems like a good idea.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The Gardenhire hire was announced today. My understanding is that hire announcements are frowned on during the WS, but that's the only limitation. So I don't think it's a done deal. Getting someone aboard sooner than later so you can fill out the coaching staff seems like a good idea.
Well, the issue with announcing before the ALCS ends is that Cora's current team is still playing, not that there's some sort of moratorium on announcing anything. Even if there's a deal in place, they don't want to take attention away from or in any way distract the Astros.
 

dcmissle

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Well, the issue with announcing before the ALCS ends is that Cora's current team is still playing, not that there's some sort of moratorium on announcing anything. Even if there's a deal in place, they don't want to take attention away from or in any way distract the Astros.
Well, we know he interviewed, and it was reported that the Astros' manager strongly endorsed him for the job, so I'm not sure the distraction would be that big a deal. Seems the biggest distraction might be in Cora's mind, and he obviously knows whether he has the RS job.

Edit -- Hopefully the uncertainty lasts beyond tonight.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Well, we know he interviewed, and it was reported that the Astros' manager strongly endorsed him for the job, so I'm not sure the distraction would be that big a deal. Seems the biggest distraction might be in Cora's mind, and he obviously knows whether he has the RS job.

Edit -- Hopefully the uncertainty lasts beyond tonight.
It could also be simple courtesy to the Astros too. They allowed Cora to interview on their off day Sunday. Perhaps allowed a negotiation during the off day yesterday. For that, the Red Sox don't overshadow what they're doing and hold off until Sunday to announce the hiring (or maybe even until after the World Series if the Astros advance).
 

scotian1

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So now the Nationals have entered the search process after the firing of Baker. The limited quality pool calls for the Red Sox to make their decision soon if they have not already done so.
 

Kun Aguero

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Because a few million dollars is literally pocket change to the Lerners, as opposed to the $400 MM Harper is forecast to command. And the Lerners will pay through the nose for players -- see Scherzer, and the Strasburg extension and the inaugural Jason Werth contract. So we are talking about scrimping on something most people think is pretty important. They lost Bud Black over money alone -- he was offered an insulting deal, turned it down, then Dusty was hired.
Scrimping on a manager when you have the revenue money available is an entirely different matter than not digging into your own money to pay for it. That wasn't what you said. You said they didn't pay managers well despite being the wealthiest owner. Those 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
 

dcmissle

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Scrimping on a manager when you have the revenue money available is an entirely different matter than not digging into your own money to pay for it. That wasn't what you said. You said they didn't pay managers well despite being the wealthiest owner. Those 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
Why the snark? Please get a life.

It absolutely can be a factor with certain franchises. For example, the Oakland A's. What is their ownership's willingness/ability to dig into its own pockets if for whatever reason it had to run in the red?

I am telling you that given the Lerner's pockets that reach to China, it would be an absolute non-factor even if they had to pay Joe Maddon money on a guaranteed 5 year deal.

The National's approach to this is incoherent on several fronts. They have a demonstrated record of churning through managers while being unwilling to pay market rate for new ones. Six managers in ten years.

Managers either matter a lot or they don't. If they don't -- if you undervalue them relative to the rest of mlb -- then it's very curious to fire one with two straight division titles and 95+ win seasons. They said today that they are looking for post season improvement -- nothing less than a WS championship is acceptable. But you cannot get a Mercedes at Toyota prices.

If past is prologue, they will go with someone at the discount store, probably young. And if he crashes and burns and loses the division -- because, for example, he cannot cope with a bullpen from hell or the next Bryce Harper injury -- ownership deserves to get torched for this one.

And I am not a big Dusty fan.

Edit -- and they did this, to Rizzo again, in the offseason, refusing his desperate attempt to shore up a bullpen from hell while conferring a contract on yet another Boras client, Matt Wieters, who posted the worst numbers in mlb at the position.

Their priorities are weird, and no, that move will not help them appreciably in resigning Bruce Harper.
 
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Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Dusty's contract was up, and he hadn't done anything amazing with that club. Two NL East division crowns is not a huge deal with that roster and the weak competition. He had to make it past the NLDS to get another contract and he didnt.

Maybe a John Farrell landing spot?
I would be shocked if Baker ever manages at the Major League level again. He could be a bench coach but that's about as far as I see him going. Farrell, while not a great manager, at least has a World Series win to his credit as skipper. I could see it being a favorable landing spot for him, aside from the aforementioned money aspect. A World Series-winning manager is going to warrant a decent contract.
 

richgedman'sghost

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This is very true. There were actually people stumping for Herzog over Tito. I forget who else they interviewed or were rumored to be interested in. Maddon?
The finalists were reportedly Maddon, Glenn Hoffman and Tito. I do not remember anybody suggesting Whitey Hertzog. I think once again you must be mistaken since Hertzog had last managed in the 1990s. He was long retired by 2004. Perhaps you were thinking about 1988?
 

BestGameEvah

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Pretty quick-handed, those Nationals.
All of the coaching staff has been wiped out already on their website
While the Red Sox site only erased Farrell.
 

bosockboy

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The finalists were reportedly Maddon, Glenn Hoffman and Tito. I do not remember anybody suggesting Whitey Hertzog. I think once again you must be mistaken since Hertzog had last managed in the 1990s. He was long retired by 2004. Perhaps you were thinking about 1988?
I don’t know if he was contacted by the Red Sox, but it was definitely out there and discussed. I remember reading it several places:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/sports/sports-of-the-times-a-managerial-memo-to-boston-think-old.html
 

Harry Hooper

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John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I recall Herzog discussion here at least. I cannot recall whether Bud Black and Larry Dierker were in the mix when Tito was hired or when Tito was fired.
I know that I'm wrong about this, but I keep thinking that Whitey Herzog was the first choice for Red Sox manager after McNamara was fired in 1988. Morgan was supposed to be an interim manager but Morgan Magic made it impossible to give the guy a pink slip. The person whom I'm thinking about may have been Mac's replacement might have been Joe Torre. I think that he worked for the Angels as a broadcaster at the time and eventually HE took over for Herzog in St. Louis.

But I'm pretty sure that Whitey was the first choice in 1990 after Morgan got bounced and the Red Sox settled on Hobson. I don't recall him being in the running to be Grady's replacement.
 

JimBoSox9

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I don’t know if he was contacted by the Red Sox, but it was definitely out there and discussed. I remember reading it several places:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/sports/sports-of-the-times-a-managerial-memo-to-boston-think-old.html
Holy hell, this column is a fucking scorcher of a take, even 14 years after coming out of the oven (a Hot Pocket Take?). Everyone should get a hit of the good shit to kick off their weekend:

Speculation, which flows through Boston even quicker than the Charles River, has the Red Sox considering Bobby Valentine, Jim Fregosi, Whitey Herzog, Charlie Manuel, Bruce Bochy, Glenn Hoffman, Rick Burleson and Willie Randolph.

As deserving of consideration as all those candidates are, the Red Sox are looking for love (and for a tray of World Series rings) in all the wrong places unless Herzog is pursued first. If they don't interview the man known as the White Rat, the Red Sox will be ignoring one of the tenets of sports management: Always copy the formula of how a frustrated franchise turned itself into a champion.

The Marlins turned by hiring a manager who not only was 72 but also was out of baseball. Or ''between jobs,'' as McKeon said.

With that in mind, the Red Sox should be thinking of Herzog as well as several other super senior citizens, each with a projected 2004 opening-day age in their early or middle 70's and each of whom is no longer in the dugout, sometimes by choice: Sparky Anderson, Jim Frey, Earl Weaver, Roger Craig, Dick Williams and Tom Lasorda.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Holy hell, this column is a fucking scorcher of a take, even 14 years after coming out of the oven (a Hot Pocket Take?). Everyone should get a hit of the good shit to kick off their weekend:
I knew I wasn’t going crazy. I think Dierker was also thrown around too.

I think DD is fine with what’s going on. If the Nats pick Cora then the Sox hire Ausmus much to the angst of every one here.
 

Laser Show

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Yup. I was feeling pretty good about Cora to Boston until DC entered the picture. I think we're going to get stuck with Ausmus now.
 

soxhop411

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Yup. I was feeling pretty good about Cora to Boston until DC entered the picture. I think we're going to get stuck with Ausmus now.
Cora is still the Sox manager. I don’t think. The nats will be able to snag him. They churn thru too many managers for it to be a secure job.
 

MikeM

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This opening makes sense for Cora only if he uses them like ownership uses others. Agree to a two year deal on short money, win, and then move on to another franchise.
This, although that "only" stipulation doesn't really play up there unless the Sox and their potential 2 year countdown to a full rebuild are actually offering more guaranteed years.

If Cora interviews and gets offered the job in DC we'll need to be looking at plan B imo.
 

dcmissle

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The big downside to the Nats' job is not Harper leaving, it's Mike Rizzo leaving. And he can leave after next season, and my suspicion is he will.

If he leaves, all bets are off here. He is very good at what he does and also is the adult in the room.
 

Green Monster

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Can we read between the lines here........perhaps, the Sox and Cora have a signed contract that has been filed with MLB. MLB incorrectly tweeted breaking news of Cora to the Sox a few days ago and then deleted it after it was realized the official announcement would not come until after the ALCS........Nats too late to the party given that a binding contract is already in place.
 

RedOctober3829

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Can we read between the lines here........perhaps, the Sox and Cora have a signed contract that has been filed with MLB. MLB incorrectly tweeted breaking news of Cora to the Sox a few days ago and then deleted it after it was realized the official announcement would not come until after the ALCS........Nats too late to the party given that a binding contract is already in place.
Nothing signed yet, but the odds are that there's a handshake/verbal agreement that he's their guy and it will become official after the Astros' season is over. I'm not sure if they can officially announce it between the ALCS and the WS if Houston wins tonight or not.
 

sean1562

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Also, I am sure the Bud Black fiasco plays a part in any future managerial search with the Nationals. Why should Cora wait to hear from the Nats if they think he is worthy, when he ostensibly has a solid deal in place with the Sox? No reason to jeopardize that opportunity, and I am sure the Red Sox position is a fairly coveted job.
 

TimScribble

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red sox offer offer manager job to alex cora; assuming contract is finalized, will be announced after houston's done

Edit: I see the new thread. Carry on