Potential Red Sox manager candidates

joe dokes

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I'm more concerned with his comments with regard to analytics back in 2014.

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2014/1/6/5282146/brad-ausmus-sabermetrics-tigertalk
The concern is two-fold. Either the Red Sox are still a team that employs and embraces analytics more than most (a thought put in doubt by Henry's comments last year and Dave Cameron's this year) and Ausmus would be a bad fit for the organizational approach.
Or, more frightening, he would be a fit for the new approach and the team is genuinely de-emphasizing analytics as a tool and will continue to fall behind the curve in the following years.
There's a third possibility. In the nearly 4 seassons since that interview, he's modified his approach. It also depends on what he means. If he's ignoring hit charts for shifting data, or batting a fast guy at leadoff despite a 275OBP, then that's a problem. There is quite a bit of data, though, that *is* more big picture than in-game. I dont see gardenhire, for example, making such an adjustment in his outlook, but that's just guessing.

I think a panel discussion of GMs about the managerial hiring process would be pretty interesting.
 

AB in DC

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I'm more concerned with his comments with regard to analytics back in 2014.
I don't see anything terribly objectionable in that quote. There is very little that analytics can provide during a game. It should be part of the overall strategy and game-planning, sure. But trying to use analytics on the fly, with minimal time for thought, is a rather poor use of analytic tools.
 

Kielty's Last Pitch

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The big thing with Tito, and Torre to an extent, is that there was some time between those bad tenures and the successful job. The concern I'd have for Ausmus would be that he's going immediately from one job to the next without a whole lot of time to reflect on what he did poorly and might want to change. Such an immediate change could allow him to blame the personnel (which undoubtedly was a part of the failure in Detroit) rather than assess his own strengths/weaknesses.
That's a valid concern, I agree at least one year of separation from managerial duties is preferred. However then you're risking another team hiring him to manage first. However I don't think a period of separation should be a requirement. Plenty of managers have gone straight from one team to another and had immediate success. Farrell himself is one example, as is Mattingly (most wins for the Marlins in 6 years).
 

AB in DC

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I hope Dom & co know what they're doing. I remember hearing some of the same superlatives thrown toward Matt Williams when the Nationals hired him, and he was a disaster.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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That's a valid concern, I agree at least one year of separation from managerial duties is preferred. However then you're risking another team hiring him to manage first. However I don't think a period of separation should be a requirement. Plenty of managers have gone straight from one team to another and had immediate success. Farrell himself is one example, as is Mattingly (most wins for the Marlins in 6 years).
Sure. I was more trying to address the idea that the second go-round (or fourth) is going to result in an improved approach to the job and success. If there's no buffer, I think there's less chance of a manager finding himself, so to speak.

Farrell is a poor example because he wasn't fired by his previous team, he was poached. Sure, his results weren't that good in Toronto, but his job wasn't finished either. He may well have piloted the team to its back to back ALCS appearances as well as Gibbons did. We'll never know. Mattingly wasn't exactly a failure in LA, certainly not on the scale of Tito in Philly or Torre in Atlanta or New York or St Louis. His failing was getting the team over the hump to the World Series despite high payrolls and three straight division titles. He may not have needed to change a thing in his approach going to Miami.

Ausmus though, took over a team that had been to 3 straight LCS and a World Series and got steadily worse under his guidance (slight bump last year but definite drop again this year). That's more in line with early Tito and Torre, and why I think he'd benefit more from taking a year or two or more off from managing.
 

Kielty's Last Pitch

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Ausmus though, took over a team that had been to 3 straight LCS and a World Series and got steadily worse under his guidance (slight bump last year but definite drop again this year). That's more in line with early Tito and Torre, and why I think he'd benefit more from taking a year or two or more off from managing.
Agreed. Hopefully it's a moot point, if all the rumors about Cora are correct.
 

DJnVa

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I hope Dom & co know what they're doing. I remember hearing some of the same superlatives thrown toward Matt Williams when the Nationals hired him, and he was a disaster.
You have to listen to who’s throwing out the superlatives.
 

RetractableRoof

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Should it be Cora one below the surface benefit of his hire is to bring in house current external scouting info on the Sox. Who is tipping pitches, etc, which pitcher has fallen into a rhythm with his pitches in specific counts, etc. Maybe he knows what Porcello changed this year lol. Could be an awful lot of value in what others know about the team - the Sox don't SEEM to do a lot of self scouting / analysis.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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A monkey with a dart board would be an improvement. If it's Ausmus, so be it. Plenty of people here didn't want Tito and chalked it up purely to Schilling.
This is very true. There were actually people stumping for Herzog over Tito. I forget who else they interviewed or were rumored to be interested in. Maddon?
 

mt8thsw9th

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You know deep down it's going to be Ausmus. Cora was only interviewed because we needed a minority candidate.
Bingo. If he wasn’t interviewed to fill a quota, I’d imagine they’d have brought another minority candidate in. I’ll be ecstatic if it’s Cora, but I’m resigned to the fact that it’ll be Ausmus. He’s Dave’s guy.

Cora basically has as much of a shot of the gig as Velasquez was given to prove himself in the rotation. At the end of the day he was replaced by one of Dave’s guys as well.
 

mt8thsw9th

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This is very true. There were actually people stumping for Herzog over Tito. I forget who else they interviewed or were rumored to be interested in. Maddon?
That wasn’t a thing that happened. Herzog was back in 1995. It was Alou that some people wanted. Maddon would’ve been the right choice then /ducks.
 

SydneySox

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I seem to recall - and may be wrong, as a quick google search doesn't reveal much - that Bud Black was a name many people were getting behind back in 2004.
 

DJnVa

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Bingo. If he wasn’t interviewed to fill a quota, I’d imagine they’d have brought another minority candidate in. I’ll be ecstatic if it’s Cora, but I’m resigned to the fact that it’ll be Ausmus. He’s Dave’s guy.

Cora basically has as much of a shot of the gig as Velasquez was given to prove himself in the rotation. At the end of the day he was replaced by one of Dave’s guys as well.
Actually, I’d think the opposite. If Cora, who’s considered a hot commodity, wasn’t someone they wanted, then the minority interview would’ve been Hale—someone with more Sox history.
 

Kielty's Last Pitch

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Maddon, Hale and Hoffman were the other ones who interviewed for the '04 gig. As good a manager as Maddon turned out, the '04 Sox would not have been a good team for him to cut his managerial teeth on. The much younger and inexperienced Devil Rays was the best match for him.
 

Remagellan

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I agree with all this MFY panic except the part about adding Harper in a year. Sadly, I don’t think they’ll need him, and if they spend that sort of money on anything, it will be on a starter.

But we can better too, and that starts with hiring Alex Cora. (Naked attempt to put this thread back on track after this depressing threadjack.)
 
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Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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I have selected ALEX CORA to be the next Red Sox Manager. Now that I have spoken, you can close the thread.




...and Varitek should be his bench coach unless Dumborowski makes him take Ausmus. (can someone drag Leyland out of retirement for a 2 year stint on the bench helping Cora transition??)
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I have selected ALEX CORA to be the next Red Sox Manager. Now that I have spoken, you can close the thread.




...and Varitek should be his bench coach unless Dumborowski makes him take Ausmus. (can someone drag Leyland out of retirement for a 2 year stint on the bench helping Cora transition??)
If Cora takes Varitek as his bench coach, he's completely nuts. He should know that the first time he makes a controversial move, everyone will be calling for Cora to be fired and replaced by Varitek.

For his bench coach, Cora should hire an older baseball guy with no real thoughts on managing (like Hobson/Torre and Zimmer). Or a buddy of his (like Francona and Mills). Knowing how many in this region feel about Varitek, appointing him as a bench coach would be a colossal mistake.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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If Cora takes Varitek as his bench coach, he's completely nuts. He should know that the first time he makes a controversial move, everyone will be calling for Cora to be fired and replaced by Varitek. .
And yet the Varitek family moving van is planning it's trip toward the Boston area as the off season begins.
So whether the "Special Assistant" is 2 feet away from Cora or sitting in a Front Office Box Seat, there will be a Tek sightings on a regular basis in Fenway next season. Cora wont last long if he is afraid of every Boston shadow.

I'd love to see Leyland take a break from golfing to sit there for a year or two but I doubt he wants any part of the Boston drama.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't think Varitek is a poor choice for bench coach because it would have Cora looking over his shoulder. I think it's a bad choice because Tek has zero experience as a coach, period. I'm in the camp that if you've got a first time manager, his bench coach should be an older, more experienced guy. Preferably someone from Cora's past that he's very comfortable or familiar with. Just looking down the list of managers Cora played for, obviously Tito is unavailable, but what about someone like Jerry Manuel?
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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If Cora takes Varitek as his bench coach, he's completely nuts. He should know that the first time he makes a controversial move, everyone will be calling for Cora to be fired and replaced by Varitek.

For his bench coach, Cora should hire an older baseball guy with no real thoughts on managing (like Hobson/Torre and Zimmer). Or a buddy of his (like Francona and Mills). Knowing how many in this region feel about Varitek, appointing him as a bench coach would be a colossal mistake.
This would probably be true if Ausmus ends up the bench coach as well. Actually, it'll be true no matter what. The first time he leaves a starter in for one batter too many, someone will call for his head or declare that "The Red Sox can't win with this guy at the helm!"

I'd love to see Leyland take a break from golfing to sit there for a year or two but I doubt he wants any part of the Boston drama.
Wait, you weren't kidding about this? There is absolutely no reason for him to want to come out of retirement to be a bench coach. He's made it clear he's not interested in coming back at all, not even to manage. Why the hell would he want to play second fiddle to a rookie manager?
 

Kielty's Last Pitch

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I'm in the camp that if you've got a first time manager, his bench coach should be an older, more experienced guy. Preferably someone from Cora's past that he's very comfortable or familiar with.
Sounds like a guy I thought about yesterday. Older, coached from 2004-2011 with the White Sox (3B coach of the 2005 World Champs), Marlins bench coach in 2012, now on the Pirates coaching staff, has interim manager experience. And ironically, has the same last name as Alex.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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And yet the Varitek family moving van is planning it's trip toward the Boston area as the off season begins.
So whether the "Special Assistant" is 2 feet away from Cora or sitting in a Front Office Box Seat, there will be a Tek sightings on a regular basis in Fenway next season. Cora wont last long if he is afraid of every Boston shadow.
I'm not suggesting that he's afraid of every Boston shadow, but you don't need to add landmines to the guy's first job. And like RHF said, what does Jason Varitek know about coaching? He's never done it before.
 

dcmissle

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Dusty Baker out in Washington; Cora on the radar.

If you want Cora, be happy that Washington does not appear to value managers highly and does not pay them well. Even though Lerners are wealthiest owners in mlb per Forbes. Cora is no dummy; this has to factor in to his thinking.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dusty Baker out in Washington; Cora on the radar.

If you want Cora, be happy that Washington does not appear to value managers highly and does not pay them well. Even though Lerners are wealthiest owners in mlb per Forbes. Cora is no dummy; this has to factor in to his thinking.
Sellers' market in the baseball manager business.