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Porzingis to Dallas

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DeadlySplitter, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Mavs with Powell, Mejri and Kleber sharing the 5. They'll be fine w/out DeAndre
     
  2. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I do feel a bit bad for Jordan. He seemed to really enjoy catching lobs from Luka. I wonder where he winds up next if he is bought out or traded on.
     
  3. Philip Jeff Frye

    Philip Jeff Frye Member SoSH Member

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    A friend of mine who is a Knicks fan says "What I really look forward to is trading whoever we draft this year to get out from under the terrible contracts we’ll sign this summer."
     
  4. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    At a guess? They can’t trade ‘Zingis on draft night, but they can deal DSJ then.
     
  5. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    The Knicks want to give development minutes to Kornet/Robinson at the 5 the rest of the season

    if he gets bought out, do Brooklyn or Phila make sense for Jordan?

    Have to think there will be plenty of buyouts and the Sixers will fill out their bench
     
    #105 benhogan, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  6. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,378
  7. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,378
  8. Koji’s Slider

    Koji’s Slider Member SoSH Member

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  9. Apisith

    Apisith Member SoSH Member

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    Best sports league in the world right now, including football (soccer to yous)
     
  10. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I think Dallas has enough cap space to sign a max guy too. Any big name European FAs?
     
  11. Koji’s Slider

    Koji’s Slider Member SoSH Member

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    Imagine being a Jets, Knicks, Mets and Islanders fan? Yikes.
     
  12. crow216

    crow216 Dragon Wangler SoSH Member

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    It’s usually Giants, Yankees, Knicks, Rangers or Mets, Islanders, Nets, Jets.
     
  13. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    Any interest in Jordan on Boston as a buyout ring chaser? He of course won't help out in spacing the floor on offense, but is a good pick/roll rim runner, shot blocker, defender, and rebounder. I'm guessing Matthews will end up in Philly if bought out.
     
  14. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    NYK played DAL big time here I think. Those two first round picks that DAL sent seems totally unnecessary. If Porzingis was totally healthy and was playing, then I could see a case where maybe this deal was fair, but DAL sent out 5 assets all having positive value. Matthews and Jordan as expirings who are useful players could have brought back 2nd round picks. DSJ could have brought back a 1st. And on top of those they sent two firsts? And they took back 50 million in dead salary?

    Ooof
     
  15. cromulence

    cromulence Member SoSH Member

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    I'm a Knicks fan who was starting to have some doubts about Porzingis, so I'm extremely biased, but this is pretty much how I feel too. The #LOLKnicks reaction is predictable, but it all assumes that KP will not only stay healthy, but that he'll continue to improve his game. For all his promise and potential, he's still not a good interior defender and he's an absolutely terrible rebounder for his size. When it comes to injuries, even before the ACL he'd been constantly banged up and wore down as the season went on - and that's without having to make any playoff runs. And then when you throw in his rapidly expanding ego, his brother seemingly being in his ear all the time, threatening to sign the QO - they had to make a move, and the leverage was only going to get worse.

    Of course, a legit star (or two) needs to actually come sign with the Knicks for once. We'll see.
     
  16. EvilEmpire

    EvilEmpire Dope Staff Member Dope

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    I'm a Knicks fan. I like the deal, but I don't have a lot of confidence that the picks and FA signings will work out. How can I?
     
  17. MillarTime

    MillarTime Member SoSH Member

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    Then how could you like the deal? The cap space and the picks are the only meaningful return (unless you believe in DSJ).
     
  18. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

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    Unless Barnes or Powell unexpectedly declines his player option the Mavs are over the cap.
     
  19. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Yea, DAL is looking at 2020 cap space
     
  20. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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  21. EvilEmpire

    EvilEmpire Dope Staff Member Dope

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    Just because I'm not confident doesn't mean that I can't recognize the potential. This deal gives the Knicks a chance to make a huge leap forward towards relevancy.
     
  22. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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  23. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    He already said that was his intent.
     
  24. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    And gives the Mavs a potential high level talent. There's risk and upside for both teams.

    Plus Trey Burke fills the all important 3rd undersized back up point guard role. Mavs never have enough of those.
     
  25. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Well yes, he can say that all he wants. When 100 million dollar contract is put in front of him, I doubt he turns it down.
     
  26. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Why are people 100% sure any team is going to offer KP a $100m+ contract before he even sits foot on a court?
     
  27. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    It's also better for Dallas not to offer it so they can sign someone.

    If KP does accept the QO, do they have the money to sign a max player?
     
  28. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Imagine being a New Yorker..having 8 teams to possibly root for and your arch rival city with 4 has 11 championships since 2000 and your teams have 4. And if the Yanks don't win this year it will have been a decade since their last one.. Even the Giants have only had 9 winning seasons in their last 19. It's been a fairly glorious almost two decades of Boston dominance.
     
  29. cromulence

    cromulence Member SoSH Member

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    I love the way you guys vacillate between being persecuted for being Boston fans and endlessly rubbing your teams' success in everyone's face. Pick one and stick with it.
     
  30. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    DAL just traded 2 future first round picks, a guy they just drafted 9th a year and a half ago, and took on 50 million in dead salary. And what did they do all this for if not to max out Porzingis and have him be in DAL for the foreseeable future?
     
  31. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Or they could wait until after the offseason and do the same thing, no? They don't have to max him right away.
     
  32. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know all the twists of the cap rules but is there anything preventing a wink wink deal to keep cap space? timelines?
     
  33. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Porxingis has a 17 million dollar cap hold tying up their space
     
  34. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    It is going to be a fascinating spring/summer in NY. I firmly believe top FA will have no interest in playing with a couple recent draftees, even if one is Zion, so do they make a certain trade on draft night to make sure someone else doesn't get their target, or do they wait and sign free agents first and try to swing a trade with this year's pick later in the summer a la Wiggins? Unlike the CLE/MIN deal, though, there are going to be multiple credible suitors for any big name. Obviously you don't want to trade a potential young stud first, only to not land the big FA fish.
     
  35. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Even if he did sign the qualifying offer (which he won't do - who leaves $150MM on the table), he won't do it on day one and will remain as a $17MM cap hold until he does. That effectively wipes out whatever cap space Dallas could have this offseason.
     
  36. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    The cost to get off Hardaway and Lee's contracts probably would have been a first round pick each. So in a way you can look at the return as four first round picks and Dennis Smith (I disagree with the assessment that DSJ is worth a first; Dallas has been trying for weeks to move him for a mid-1st and found no takers). Four firsts for a star of KP's caliber sounds about right; that's what Houston offered for Butler and it's essentially what LAL has on the table for AD (Kuzma, Ball, and Ingram all being more or less equal to a first).

    That being said, it still doesn't make sense to do the deal. Four firsts may be the going acquisition cost for a superstar, but the Knicks are in acquisition mode. They had the under-25 superstar and they moved him for the chance to... sign another superstar (who may end up being older and not as good). How many players have made All-Star teams on their rookie contract and then been moved before that deal was over? I'm guessing it's a really short list. Unless they are 100% sure that KD and Kryie are coming you don't do that deal. It doesn't matter if they are worried about KP's injury history or commitment to the franchise; you cross that bridge when it comes. There was no pressure to do that deal today at the absolute nadir of his value.
     
  37. scott bankheadcase

    scott bankheadcase Member SoSH Member

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    This is mainly correct, but you can add the Knicks into the latter group for most and remove the Nets. Honestly, the Knicks are the one really true NY team for the majority of the area, they just have been so terrible since the 90s.
     
  38. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

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    5 positive assets for sure. But they are all relatively small pieces. I'd happily overpay to reel in a big fish like Porzingis. Yes he has risks but that's why he's even attainable. TH Jr. contract is brutal but Courtney Lee is off the books by 2020 which is the cap window the Mavs are targeting anyways with Barnes and Powell coming off the books then too. Dallas went from no-man's land to a riskier land with hidden treasure. I'll take it
     
  39. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    He's a restricted free agent, so he's unlikely to get that offer from anyone else after missing a year. His statement that he's going to sign the QO is entirely reasonable because if he's healthy he's absolutely a max player, while right now he won't get that sort of offer.
     
  40. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    I could be very wrong on this, but I believe that Dallas (or someone else) will gladly offer KP a max contract this summer.

    You don't trade last year's no. 1 pick, two future picks, and eat two bad contracts to take a look at a guy for a year. Dallas is 100% in on Porzingis for the long haul. Their offer will reflect that.

    If they get a look at him and he's just totally shot, then okay, but I don't think that's the most likely scenario.
     
    #140 cheech13, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  41. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    But that's not how the timeline works. Anyone maxing him now will literally be doing it on spec. Which is why it won't happen. I agree that the Mavs are all in on 'Zingis, but they maintain Bird Rights even if he plays on the QO, so they're probably happy with his stated intention of playing on the QO and having the extra space this summer.
     
  42. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Maybe I'm just missing some information because I thought he was still due back in mid-February, which gives the Mavs and everyone else a couple months to see how his rehab is going. If he's unable to return this year I do agree that messes with the timeline, but Dallas should avoid letting him sign the QO at all costs. Not only does that get him to unrestricted free agency in a year, he gets trade veto rights in the interim.
     
  43. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Unless he wants to play in Dallas. They can offer him the most anyway. Apparently him and Doncic have a history.
     
  44. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    Porzingis told the Knicks he didn't want to be there, yes?
     
  45. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    Good luck getting all Boston sports fans on the same page.
     
  46. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    We’re on a Boston sports website.. I’m just pointing out the facts.. whose face am I rubbing it in exactly?

    Edit: also I lived in nyc for 15 years.. I’ve never been a persecuted Boston fan and I’ve never rubbed my team’s successes in anyone’s face there or anywhere.. but how many thousands of times have I heard 27 rings or 1918 back in the day? New York fans have reaped what they’ve sown
     
  47. cromulence

    cromulence Member SoSH Member

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    Meh, whatever, just calling it like I see it. Of course I'm generalizing - you are, too.
     
  48. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Just as an example..in 2003 I had a yankee fan come up to my desk at work and start chanting 1918..

    But you’re right.. I have not had any problems with islanders, mets, nets, rangers or even knicks fans. It’s really the yanks and giants fans that even other New Yorkers can’t stand (at times). Jets fans had their two seconds but generally aren’t that bad either.
     
  49. Erik Hanson's Hook

    Erik Hanson's Hook Member SoSH Member

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    777
    Other than the lack of league parity, stars forming superteams via Snapchat, and never-ending refball, you are absolutely right.

    NBA fans have a weird inferiority complex sometimes.
     
  50. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    40,071
    Cuban said yesterday he likely wouldn’t play this season.
     

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