The Globe columnists have all implied that we'll be lucky to see EdRod pitch again this season. Certainly not definitive, but I'm guessing it's going to be longer than "2 weeks in a boot and 2 weeks of rehab".
Pom Wonderful: The Drew Pomeranz Thread.
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
If he got by mostly on his pinpoint control, then it's not really encouraging at all. He's never been that guy and his results haven't really been dependent on control. In the past, his success or lack there of has been determined by his HR rate.
Nice, not a moment too soon. We were in pretty dire need of an innings eater — after Sale-Price-Porcello, it was ... what, Velazquez, Goya, and El Greco?
I'll be pretty happy if Pom can give us 5-6 innings every five days at ~5.00 ERA.
I'll be pretty happy if Pom can give us 5-6 innings every five days at ~5.00 ERA.
That's two major league starts — vs. BAL and MIN — before DD has to make a decision.
The most optimistic forecast is for tonight - looks like the weather may hold out, at least until 9:00 or so. The forecast for Tuesday is pretty bleak, so may well be a rainout. Wednesday is still questionable, so if Tuesday is cancelled they may just push everyone back a day, if they play and Porcello pitches tonight.
With Swihart, Kinsler, and ERod all due to come off the DL, and a spot on the 25 man roster at a premium; time is running out for Pomeranz. His average per game fastball velocity suddenly dropped last September and sits at 88-90, while in the 2 years prior he was sitting at 91-95. Since the drop in velocity is so precipitous my guess is he is still injured and a trip to the DL is warranted. It is painful to watch him, since he has no way to put away a hitter. Hitters just sit on the curve and unless the pitch is on the black, the curve gets mashed. High out-of-the-zone fastballs get crushed, since at 88 without looking exactly like his curve, hitters have no trouble getting on top of them.
He is a free agent next year, so the RS have limited options. The choices include the DL, put him on waivers and pray a potential playoff team takes a 2 MM (prorated portion of his 8.5 MM salary) flier on him, or since he is a free agent next year -- HRam him. I just don't think it benefits the RS to use a roster spot on him at this point in the season.
He is a free agent next year, so the RS have limited options. The choices include the DL, put him on waivers and pray a potential playoff team takes a 2 MM (prorated portion of his 8.5 MM salary) flier on him, or since he is a free agent next year -- HRam him. I just don't think it benefits the RS to use a roster spot on him at this point in the season.
It could be different than injured. This could be who he is going forward. He's basically Frank Tanana, but still searching for the second act.
I had hopes that moving to the bullpen would ramp up his velocity to about 94, and make him more effective. But last night was not good.
Single
Walk
Fly out
Strike out
Double*
Single
Single
Ground out
1.0 ip, 4 h, 3 r, 3 er, 1 bb, 1 k. Not good.
*I will say, however, that Pomeranz almost got out of it with nothing allowed. With two outs and the count 2-2 on Ramos, after Ramos had fouled one off, Pomeranz dropped in a curve that was actually a strike but was called a ball. Borderline pitch, but it did catch the corner. On the very next pitch Ramos doubled, scoring two. So the ump gets that call right, Pomeranz gets out of it and his line becomes: 1.0 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 2 k. Significantly better.
No disagreement here, other than to point out that Swihart has already been reactivated, resulting in Dan Butler being DFA'd.
Sure, the line would look better, but his stuff was just not good regardless of the result. Everything was up in the zone and there was no uptick in velocity.
Who goes to make room for Kinsler today is the only real question mark since as has been pointed out, Swihart's already back. From the sounds of things, ERod is probably a couple weeks away from the big club. He's scheduled to make his first rehab start on Monday in Portland (8/20). No reason to rush him back so he should make a second rehab start on the following Saturday or Sunday (8/25-8/26). If everything is good to go, they can make is first start back on September 1 when no one has to be dropped from the roster.
Seeing as there are alternatives like sending Velazquez down for two weeks, Pomeranz is probably safe. If they bring Velazquez right back up on September 1, they won't even burn an option on him this year (minimum is 20 days on optional assignment to burn option year).
The above is correct, except why send Velasquez down when he can be border-line effective, while keeping Pom who really can't get anybody out, has serious control issues, tops out at 89-90, and isn't even that much better against lefties. (.945 OPS against righties, .764 against lefties.... it's all pretty bad.)
What good would Pom offer going forward?
Pretty sure this is a verbatim cut and paste from mid August 2004 except replace "Drew Pomeranz" with "Derek Lowe".
Figure out a way to keep all these guys. You never know who you might need later on.
Hint: it rhymes with Selenic Zoo.
The Red Sox will need to send someone down (Velasquez or Devers) or DL/DFA Pomeranz to activate Kinsler tomorrow. When the moved Pomeranz to the bullpen, I am guessing that they hoped that he would gain some fastball velocity and become more effective. That hasn't really happened and his control is still pretty bad. I know that getting rid of a pitcher that was so good for the team last year might be a mistake, but I think Pomeranz is gone tomorrow. If they can convince him that he is hurt, then they DL him, otherwise he gets DFA.
If Pom would visit that zoo you speak of, it would be the perfect situation.
However, is there a union issue? Is Pom OK with it? Lots of questions for the 24th guy on the roster.
Yup. The goal should be to keep everyone. My spider-sense is tingling for Pom to start a 15 day stay on the DL, with a miraculous recovery after rosters expand on 9/1.
Call it a soft tissue injury, chronic immolation of the pitching arm, foot-in-mouth disease, or whatever. But the Sox have 10 games in a row starting the day Kinsler returns, and the Sox have to start Johnson twice in that span. They can’t banish their only decent long reliever, Velazquez, to limbo under those circumstances.
Well they could, but it wouldn’t be a very rational decision, given the other options.
I guess the only reason would be concern that a potential playoff opponent would pick up a lefthander and make use of him.
Too bad Nunez can't be optioned.
If I were in charge, I'd probably option Devers. With the innings that we've put on a lot of one-inning guys I don't like this team going with 12 pitchers for two weeks. And I'd like to see Pom once or twice more out of the bullpen in lower leverage situations than last night.
There are just no great options here. Pom is too valuable a commodity if he's right to just let him walk, even if the percentage chance of his being right is very low.
If I were in charge, I'd probably option Devers. With the innings that we've put on a lot of one-inning guys I don't like this team going with 12 pitchers for two weeks. And I'd like to see Pom once or twice more out of the bullpen in lower leverage situations than last night.
There are just no great options here. Pom is too valuable a commodity if he's right to just let him walk, even if the percentage chance of his being right is very low.
Pomeranz has pitched in relief three times since his last start eight days ago. I'm not sure how much we can really interpret from 4 innings of work, three of which were generally uneventful (last night being the only poor inning).
True, DDB. The ideal countermove to Kinsler, now that both Devers and Swihart are back, would be an infielder. Either give Núñez 2 weeks on the DL to rest his knees, or give Bogaerts the time due to getting plunked on the hand.
Yeah, the one advantage to optioning someone -- if you can find someone to option -- is that they can come back right away if someone else takes a knock or if Kinsler re-aggravates. But if you put someone on the DL, they can't come back no matter what for ten days (or nine if you retro to yesterday). So, a slight lean for me to Devers. But there's no obvious answer here I guess.
To be clear, that wasn't a prediction. I think it's highly unlikely actually but it's what I would do unless Pom is actually hurt.
If we're predicting I think it's going to be Velazquez going down.
If it's a player optioned out, it's Velazquez or Brasier. They need to get the bench back up to four reserves so they're not sending down a position player. And considering Cora has said Brasier is going to get some more high leverage opportunities, he's probably not going anywhere. So that leaves Velazquez. He's been great but he's still the long man/mop up guy, not a 7th/8th inning with the lead guy. They can get by without him for two weeks.
It's a small sample, but nothing about his performance was any different from when he was starting.
True, but as it is such a small sample size, is it really enough to say anything definitive? I was responding to a post that suggested that the move to the pen was ineffective. I don't think we have enough data to say one way or the other.
If his stuff is the same as it was when he was starting (it was), it’s hard to argue the move to the pen will change anything.
If he starts throwing harder in subsequent appearances, count me in...but it’s not looking good.
I know circumstances are different, but DD was not afraid to DFA Hanley. Pomeranz is useless right now and he is a FA and the only thing he can do is harm. the Sox.
The other thing is that Pomeranz probably isn’t even ahead of Poyner and Scott on the depth chart for LH reliever once September 1 arrives and you can expand the roster without cutting him. So he really has no role.
If JD and Mookie get to face that 89mph fastball in the playoffs that may be Pom's best use
Suspect they will put him on 10-day to build arm strength. Really need to see if a few weeks rest can get him back to low 90s from the pen.
Drew has to be frustrated after having an excellent 2017. The last month has also been costing Kimbrel and Kelly (the last 2.5 months) a few FA dollars. Speak softly whilst in the pen these days.
Last edited:
If Pomeranz isn't DFA today for Kinsler, I can't envision a situation where he isn't with the team through the end of the season. He might spend September buried in the pen as the 12th option, but it's not like it costs them anything.
Another depth issue resolved by cruel reality.
The timing of Rafa's hamstring may be fortunate, but I don't lie hamstring issues; we call them nagging, but that really means they just take frickin' forever to heal--stupid muscle goes past two joints, and major ones at that. What an asshole.
The timing of Rafa's hamstring may be fortunate, but I don't lie hamstring issues; we call them nagging, but that really means they just take frickin' forever to heal--stupid muscle goes past two joints, and major ones at that. What an asshole.
Hopefully, they are just being careful with Rafi.
Maybe the logjam on the 25 made what might have been a tougher decision a little easier with respect to whether to DL him as opposed to giving him a few days off.
I think this will work out ok for the team. I've been out front on the position but I believe it -- at this point in time, the extra arm in the bullpen makes up for the delta between Rafi and Nunez at the plate and at third base.
Anyway, Pom should get a few more chances. I hope he makes them count for something.
Maybe the logjam on the 25 made what might have been a tougher decision a little easier with respect to whether to DL him as opposed to giving him a few days off.
I think this will work out ok for the team. I've been out front on the position but I believe it -- at this point in time, the extra arm in the bullpen makes up for the delta between Rafi and Nunez at the plate and at third base.
Anyway, Pom should get a few more chances. I hope he makes them count for something.
I can't figure out if this is some kind of That's What She Said Joke or if you're serious.
I think some of the muscle heads do, on each side, or something, but that's as far as I'm willing to take this.
One thing that I thought went unnoticed tonight is that Drew hit 93 on the gun several times. It has been a year since he threw that hard. Still not 95 but maybe, whether due to improved mechanics or resolving injury, he is on his way back to being the pitcher last July.
His fastball had visibly much more carry to it and the breaking ball more depth. Best stuff he has had all year by a mile.
I agree, very much encouraging.
