It's all VC/tech bros these days who never go to Oakland under any other circumstances.
Pretty sure the folks who think it was a dirty play know all about the concept of momentum and understand what a closeout is.
There were probably 100+ fouls called this year when guards and/or wings closed out properly and the shooter landed on their foot......so you're saying all of these were dirty/intentional? Aggressive closeouts are the norm in todays game......last post-season there were something like 45 fouls called where the defender fouled a 3-point shooter. Now factor in that Pachulia is extremely weak as a perimeter defender without the mobility to properly closeout aggressively without fouling......and you see what the result is. Kawhi was involved in the play and said it wasn't dirty on top of what appeared obvious when all factors are considered.
I'm saying they were all either dirty or incredibly careless. Shooters deserve the right to land. It's a bad play, regardless of how frequently it occurs (though, given how many shots were taken this NBA season 100+ is not at all frequent).
And Pop went off a bit on Zaza in general, mentioned a couple of incidents in his past. I didn't hear him claim outright that it was intentional, but he came close enough. Called it "totally unnatural", "completely inappropriate close out". He's pissed.
It's much higher than 100.....last year in the playoffs alone it was over 70.
Fair post. I think the simple reality is that the ankle is going to be sensitive until he can get the rest he needs to let it fully heal. We've all had ankle injuries and we all know how problematic they can be. The Zaza play probably doesn't even hurt Kawhi when he's fully healthy but any little thing can set off an already-injured ankle.
I think Zaza has a reputation for being physical but do you have specific examples of him being dirty without doing Google research? Because I don't really have any one thing in mind and I loved it when Garnett shiver screened him back in '08 (it was harsh but fair. And Pachulia's Hawks teammates hung him out to dry on that one).
I already had in my head that he was a thug from his ATL days, but there was this well-publicized incident against Westbrook a few months ago:
Pop's point, and my point, are pretty simple. Zaza got there late. It was a shitty, dangerous play, regardless of intent.
lol, that "flagrant" on Westbrook was 100% Stanislavski Flop. Zaza went over the screen and tried to pry the ball loose. Russ acted like he'd been shot by a cannon.
That's where I'm at. He has a history of it. They're getting stomped at home, largely because of Leonard. What does Zaza have to lose by taking a shot at his bad ankle. If this was Steph or KD making the same play, I'd be much more inclined to believe them.
Pop is beginning to look and even sound something like George Carlin at comparable ages.
Look at Aldridge's feet. After the initial jump to contest the shot, he makes the same secondary half-step that Zaza makes (the one everyone seems to have an issue with). If anything, I think Zaza's secondary step looks a lot more natural, as he has more forward momentum to slow down. Aldridge looks like he could more easily have come to a full stop after the initial jump.
I actually think Zaza's looks much more like a legitimate shot block attempt. Aldridge doesn't come anywhere near Curry's shot in the air, then realizes how far he is and takes an extra little half-step that serves no apparent purpose other than to get into Curry's landing space. And he's actually watching what he's doing when Curry lands, unlike Zaza, who has already started running the other way.
Given that he had already changed direction? Yeah, it's reasonable to expect. Especially given Count Pachulia's history as a dirty player. It's like saying that Pedro's chin music back in the day was a momentary loss of control.
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Preach brother. The claim Zaza's momentum carried him under Leonard is one of the more ridiculous assertions I've read in this forum. That wasn't momentum, it was on purpose.
Not totally disagreeing, but I don't understand the "twice" part. The first roll came when he stepped back and accidentally planted on the foot of David Lee, who was sitting on the bench (which actually was the second or possibly third time he had turned it after the initial injury against Houston in Game 5).
If you're pointing out that Pop is being hypocritical given Bowen's crap, you're 100% right. He didn't have an issue with this stuff when Bowen was taking out other guys. But Pop's hypocrisy on this matter is not really relevant when analyzing this play. This isn't an open-and-shut case by any stretch but I think the majority of posters are calling it some degree of dirty for a reason.By way of (another) comparison, here's a pretty typical shot contest by the great Bruce Bowen, whom Pop used to defend vigorously:
That left leg flare looks a lot more aimed and intentional than what Zaza did, even if we allow that Zaza's play was dirty.
I'm with you and Kenny. ZaZa was half assedly contesting a shot and ended up solidly under a shooter fading away. Anyone with a straight face chalking that up to momentum loses a lot of credibility in my eyes (for what little that is worth).
Yeah, I understand that. As I've said, I definitely buy that it's "some degree of dirty."
This seems like it comes from the Roger Goodell Damned if You Do School of Arbitration. If he had instead nodded his head in agreement with the call and walked calmly towards the key to line up for the foul shots, would you have said he looked innocent?
This isn't a good example of a dirty play by Bowen. If you want to say it is illegal - then yes I agree. But watching the play, what I see is Bowen coming into the shooters space but then making (illegal) leg/thigh contact which bounces the shooter back. It might be a small detail but Bowen did not go UNDER the shooter causing him to potentially come down and roll/rip something landing on Bowen's foot. [I'm not saying you can't find X shots of Bowen doing exactly what Zaza did, just that the selection here wasn't dirty, just illegal by modern rules where the descending shooter has to be given a place to land].By way of (another) comparison, here's a pretty typical shot contest by the great Bruce Bowen, whom Pop used to defend vigorously:
That left leg flare looks a lot more aimed and intentional than what Zaza did, even if we allow that Zaza's play was dirty.
