Peyton Manning: 2013 SI Sportsman of the Year
- Thread starter mascho
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Holy fucking hell, I skimmed through that article and it's mostly about what he's done 10-15 years ago, not this year. Just awful tripe.
What the hell does this even mean?
Terrible writing. There's a good argument to be made for making him SotY. This isn't it.
What the hell does this even mean?
Terrible writing. There's a good argument to be made for making him SotY. This isn't it.
Wouldn't he have been a far better choice last year, coming back from his surgery and leading his team to a 1 seed? I get that he is on record pace this year, but does anyone actually care if he breaks the record?
I dunno, I don't have a problem with it.
He's never won it. He's got a very good shot to finish this year having had the best regular season by any quarterback ever. Last year may have been the comeback year, but its clear that he's still far from healthy and managing to play at an extremely high level regardless.
I don't want Lebron to win again, I think giving it to the Marathon victims would be sort of insufferably cloying and gimmicky, all Mariano did this year was retire, and I don't give a fuck about Nascar--when weighed against all the other contenders, I'm happy Peyton won.
He's never won it. He's got a very good shot to finish this year having had the best regular season by any quarterback ever. Last year may have been the comeback year, but its clear that he's still far from healthy and managing to play at an extremely high level regardless.
I don't want Lebron to win again, I think giving it to the Marathon victims would be sort of insufferably cloying and gimmicky, all Mariano did this year was retire, and I don't give a fuck about Nascar--when weighed against all the other contenders, I'm happy Peyton won.
Honestly, Peyton was not even on my mind when they were about to announce the winner. I was shocked. I thought it would be LeBron but Ortiz had a small chance because of his dramatic endeavors on his sport's biggest stage. Considering Peyton has more weapons than a Colorado disaffected youth and lost his two biggest games of the year, I think that's why he never crossed my mind. LeBron is the most dominant man in his sport by a WIDE margin and is the easy favorite to win a third title in a row. Can Peyton make such a claim?
Disclaimer: I am unfamiliar with NASCAR, golf, and hockey.
Disclaimer: I am unfamiliar with NASCAR, golf, and hockey.
I just don't get how it isn't Ortiz. Not only did he have a post-season for the ages, but he also had an incredible emotional impact on the city with his "Our Fucking City" speech. From a productive, emotional and cultural standpoint, Ortiz had the best 2013 anyone could have had. From a marketing standpoint, if you are SI you could make Ortiz the guy and tie in the marathon runners to the situation, it's perfect.
I haven't read the article yet, but if Peyton won because he is an everyday guy like you or me like SMJ said, that is total bullshit. Manning being a down to earth guy can help him when he runs for political office, not for getting a sports related award.
I haven't read the article yet, but if Peyton won because he is an everyday guy like you or me like SMJ said, that is total bullshit. Manning being a down to earth guy can help him when he runs for political office, not for getting a sports related award.
Don't bother reading the article, it's pure garbage. Noted in the article is that Peyton waited until after the SB to congratulate Ray Lewis on retiring and a great career. I mean, that's pretty significant.
Another noted thing in the article is that Peyton is on pace to throw 50 td's and 5000 yards. Sure, that's nice but it hasn't won him shit. I looked back at the last guy to do that and, sure enough, Brady wasn't chosen as the guy, Favre was. For his "perseverance and passion".
This award is completely meaningless.
Another noted thing in the article is that Peyton is on pace to throw 50 td's and 5000 yards. Sure, that's nice but it hasn't won him shit. I looked back at the last guy to do that and, sure enough, Brady wasn't chosen as the guy, Favre was. For his "perseverance and passion".
This award is completely meaningless.
The article is mainly about his work ethic, and his capacity to push those around him to improve. Lots of stuff about his comeback from nerve damage and how unlikely it was, and then shitloads of quotes from former coaches and teammates about how hard he works. Thats pretty much it--apart from a few details about just how bad the nerve damage was, there's very little new in there.
There are two factors working in Peyton's favor here:
1.) The award has an unacknowledged, but clearly present, lifetime achievement component. Prior examples include Brett Favre in 2007, and Derek Jeter in 2009 (yes, the Yankees won the championship that year, but its not like Jeter carried them to it or did anything he hadn't been doing for well over a decade at that point). If a guy has been great for a long time and has a reputation (whether deserved or not) for being a good/classy guy, that significantly raises his chances.
2.) They don't like to give it to the same guy twice, and they've never given it to the same guy twice in a row. It happens, but only very rarely. No basketball player has won it more than once--not Jordan, not Kareem, nobody. Magic and Larry never even won one. Tim Duncan had to share his with Robinson. So for Lebron to win again he would have to do something mindblowingly transcendent, above and beyond what he's already done.
In this case, the most obvious choice had just won it last year, and was unlikely to win it again despite being just as dominant this year. And since this may well be the last year where Peyton's elite, they're giving him a Favre/Jeter style "lifetime achievement" SotY award--he's having a great year, but this award (as the article shows since it focuses so much on things he's done in prior years) is very much about "he's been amazing for a long time, everyone likes the guy, he's probably done in a couple of years, so let's just give it to him."
This is dumb. Every previous winner except Brett Favre won a big title in their sport (most of them) or were honored for charitable work / social impact (Arthur Ashe, 1987 "athletes who care") or both (Drew Brees for SB / Katrina) in the year they were honored. Even Favre set the TD record and made the NFC championship that year. Peyton may set the single-season TD record, but he hasn't yet, and he lost the only playoff game he played in. He also has a stacked team though some others did too I suppose. He hasn't done anything exceptional for charity as far as I know.NatetheGreat said:
If you want to go with the "won something" route, you could go with Ortiz, you could go with Andy Murray or Serena Williams, or I guess Jimmie Johnson. If you're going to social route you could go with the Marathon runners / first responders, or pick Jason Collins or Brittany Griner for coming out / speaking out against bullying. Or Ortiz who combines both.
I mean, generally they like some kind of nice narrative and feel-good story, they are running a magazine after all. Ortiz seems the obvious choice for that, you could write a touching story in your sleep about that whole thing.
If you're honoring a guy for his career, Mariano is the obvious choice. He didn't win anything this year but he's arguably the greatest postseason performer ever and clearly the best at his position. He also does a ton for charity so there's another angle and literally everyone in the game would give you a nice quote about him.
Peyton just doesn't make sense in any of these categories. He did the recovery from surgery last year but lots of athletes have done that. He doesn't do anything particularly noteworthy off the field except shill for a pizza company and go on SNL sometimes. He's just...bland. And I guess that's their angle but it's a pretty crappy one.
I honestly think the Favre award is the perfect comparison, because that was very much a lifetime achievement-style, "people like this guy, he's been great forever, this might be the last good opportunity to give it to him and there's no slam dunk obvious better choice, so lets give it to him." Jeter's in 2009 was similar--the title was the excuse, but lets be honest, if some random shortstop had put up the same numbers as Jeter that year and his team won a ring, he would not have sniffed the award. Jeter won that because he'd been great and well-liked for a long time, and they likely thought it might be their last chance to give it to him.
NatetheGreat said:
No, he really doesn't. He has a very good chance to finish the year having thrown the most TD passes in a regular season, and a fair shot at throwing for the most yards. Leaving TB out, he has no chance of having a better season than Rodgers did in 2011.
NatetheGreat said:
I usually don't even give a second thought--or a first thought for that matter--to awards like this or the Golden Glove which has become just a vote for a guy at a position who's been really good for awhile, but I think they really dropped the ball on this one. If there was ever an opportunity to make a statement that would make your award meaningful for something like Sportsman of the Year, the pick is David Ortiz.
Cities and regions often embrace players, and often later get spurned. Ortiz embraced Boston. He has for some time, but that mutual embrace crystalized in a very, very rare moment that is heart and soul of what can be but is so often not great about sport. And then he led the Red Sox to the championship.
I've got no real affection for the guy, but when I think of a person trying to infuse spirit back to NYC after 9/11, I think Guiliani. Obviously, the Boston Marathon Bombing did far less damage, but the psyche of the region was shaken; when I think of the person who stepped up to infuse spirit back into Boston, it's David Ortiz. In this last year, he has embodied everything you want out of a local sports hero, a standard to which few ever meet to the point that many people point out the standard is unrealistic.
Ortiz did it. He did all of it. David Ortiz. David Ortiz. David Ortiz.
As usual, I start typing out a post to find out that Rev has made the same point in a way better than I could have imagined.
I'd go as far to say that Ortiz was such a slam dunk obvious better choice than Peyton.
I'd go as far to say that Ortiz was such a slam dunk obvious better choice than Peyton.
It's always hard to give it to a football player because their post season is so early in the year, and so much happens in the interim.
Hate to say it, but Flacco would have been a decent choice - for a football player. Ortiz would be better.
Hate to say it, but Flacco would have been a decent choice - for a football player. Ortiz would be better.
loshjott said:
He had a historically amazing playoff run, but has thrown 18 TD to 17 INT with a 77 passer rating this year, and his Super Bowl winning team may not even make the playoffs this year. That would be like giving it to Eli last year.
mascho said:
They may just be counting 2004 as a win for Ortiz, and they basically never give it to the same guy twice (Tiger's the only person I can think of who won it more than once).
Mariano would have been a decent choice, but it'd basically be for the same reasons as the Peyton pick--because he had a great career and people like him, not because he had the best year of any athlete last year.
As a non-Pats fan, the over the top Peyton hate always amuses me. Christ, it's a meaningless award and he's having a great season so who gives a shit. Giving it to Mariano simply for retiring would've been annoying and dumb but I don't see the big deal about Manning getting it.
I am sure that it will be edited, but this Wiki entry is humorous. For each of the winners, they have an "Achievement" listed.
Peyton's? TBD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsman_of_the_Year
EDIT: To ghoff's point. Giving this to Peyton is pretty much a perfect storm for annoyance for SoSH. It's Peyton, who annoys Pats fans. There may be a Peter King factor behind it, which offends anyone who takes pride in the written word/their job/the role of objective sports journalism. And there is the fact that Ortiz was likely a better choice and was passed over.
Peyton's? TBD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsman_of_the_Year
EDIT: To ghoff's point. Giving this to Peyton is pretty much a perfect storm for annoyance for SoSH. It's Peyton, who annoys Pats fans. There may be a Peter King factor behind it, which offends anyone who takes pride in the written word/their job/the role of objective sports journalism. And there is the fact that Ortiz was likely a better choice and was passed over.
glennhoffmania said:
Manning is a phenomenal player but what did he do in 2013 that merits this award?
glennhoffmania said:
As mentioned above, my problem with it isn't necessarily the choice for the award, although I think several better ones could have been made. My problem with the article is that it's hot garbage. Poorly written and argued. It reads like a blowjob in print.
OK, so you have Peyton on the back burner as a lifetime achievement thing (even though that's really only been the case in 3 of the awards but fine). Why would this be their last chance? He's only 37 and can probably play a couple more years. If he wins the SB in Feb he's a better pick next year. If he doesn't win the SB they will probably have a shot to win the year after. If he never wins one he'll still probably break all of Favre's records before he retires so why not just do it in his retirement year?NatetheGreat said:
There is probably (hopefully) never going to be another story like David Ortiz 2013. Even if there is another awful tragedy that affects a sporting event, the chances of a team from that city going on to win the championship when they finished last the year before is a million to one. You literally couldn't script a better thing to write a feature-length piece on. You could write the same thing about Peyton next year and it might even be better if he gets his second ring.
Just for comparison, here's Verducci's piece nominating Ortiz: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/sportsman/news/20131205/david-ortiz-my-sportsman/
tims4wins said:
He's having a great year, easily the best in the league, at obviously the most visible position. And he's not Tiger or LeBron. And again, who cares? When he wins a Gold Glove at SS I'll start giving a shit.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Criticism of the article is totally valid. Extreme reactions about Peyton are kind of pointless (not directing that at you).
Honestly, if any other QB with similar stats on another team won would the outrage be half as much?
Well, complaining about complaining is just as pointless...
I dunno, it's an award that the most famous sports magazine in the country has given out every year for 60 years. It's meaningless in the way any award is, but it has a lot of tradition and they've actually made some bold choices and used it to honor people who actually did something meaningful in the world or at least transcendent in the sports context. It seems like it's supposed to be about what sports can be as a tool for or representation of good in society. There wasn't a thread when LeBron won and people on SoSH don't like him either. But he is absolutely the best player at his sport and accomplished amazing things. Peyton...not so sure.
I dunno, it's an award that the most famous sports magazine in the country has given out every year for 60 years. It's meaningless in the way any award is, but it has a lot of tradition and they've actually made some bold choices and used it to honor people who actually did something meaningful in the world or at least transcendent in the sports context. It seems like it's supposed to be about what sports can be as a tool for or representation of good in society. There wasn't a thread when LeBron won and people on SoSH don't like him either. But he is absolutely the best player at his sport and accomplished amazing things. Peyton...not so sure.
Not for nothing (because I loathe the media adoration of Manning), but he does a tremendous amount for the children's hospital here in Indy. Still does, and has for a long, long time. He performs his charitable endeavors in a low-key way (a la Brady and Best Buddies).
I skimmed the article... his work is mentioned towards the very end:
He's a worthy recipient.
I skimmed the article... his work is mentioned towards the very end:
He's a worthy recipient.
glennhoffmania said:
Probably not.
Here's why it's irritating, to me anyway (although this is hardly surprising and I don't really give a shit). There is this false equivalence that is often made when people compare Brady and Manning, that Brady gets tons and tons of great press, and is treated like Mr. Perfect by everyone. "He's so handsome!" "He's dating a model!". And there is absolutely some truth to the fact that Brady gets more good press than nearly every other player in the NFL. However, the amount of press that Brady gets, and the accolades heaped upon him by sportswriters and advertisers etc... is simply dwarfed by the amount of smoke blown up Peyton's ass.
Yet every time a Patriots fan is caught bitching about yet another Manning Puff Piece, or because Tony Dungy regales us in yet another bon mot about how Peyton is the BEST, the response from the neighborhood Jets/Phins/Eagles/Vikings/Packers/etc... fan is "You have to be kidding me. Brady gets treated the same way."
It's simply not true. It's similar to the old arguments that Red Sox fans weren't allowed to complain about Yankees payroll from 2000-2007 because they had the second or third highest payroll themselves. Well, sure, but that completely ignored the fact that the Yankees payroll was something like 70% higher than Boston's, while Boston's was only 5% higher than LA, and only 45% higher than league average.
drleather2001 said:
Do you have any data to back this up? I'm not being snarky, but from my perspective the smoke blowing seems pretty even between Brady and Manning. Simply stating that Manning gets tons and tons more great press than Brady in the opinion of a Pats fan doesn't really resolve the issue.
Yeah, and? I was simply adding my opinion about how over the top Pats fans react about all things Manning. I've never understood how he could be so unlikeable even to the fans of his opponents.
glennhoffmania said:
Why would giving it to Mariano (essentially as a lifetime achievement award) be more annoying and dumb than giving it to Peyton Manning for more or less the same reason? The award is either meaningless (in which case who gives a fuck) or it isn't.
It is pretty funny that in the same two sentence post you bemoan Pats fans for caring about a hated rival getting a meaningless award, and simultaneously express how you would be annoyed if a hated Red Sox rival would have won it.
glennhoffmania said:
You asked why it was a big deal. You're equating a bunch of guys posting on a message board to those same guys thinking it's a big deal. It isn't.
You have as many posts in here complaining about the "over the top" Manning hate as others have talking about Manning. By your logic, you're over the top as well. Except you're over the top about people posting on message boards.
And I, and many others I bet, don't think he's unlikable at all. It's the fawning that is annoying.
Ralphwiggum said:
Because it's Sportsman of the Year, not a lifetime achievement award. I don't consider retirement a sports achievement. And while there may be some who are more deserving than Peyton this year it's not like he isn't having a great season.
There are two issues. One is the overreaction of Pats fans to anything about Manning. The other is how annoying the outcome of the voting may be. Mariano would've been a dumb choice in my opinion, I would've read about it and thought about it for 10 seconds, and moved on. But no matter the topic, whenever it comes to Manning some people get so bent out of shape. I just don't get why he's so despised.
DrewDawg said:
I'm not complaining. I've noticed this theme over the years in various contexts and I commented on it. Leather thinks it's a false equivalency but I think a fan of a team other than Indy/Denver and the Pats could be justified in saying that both QBs get fawned over way too much and pretty equally.
Its not a huge mystery why Pats fans hate him. Every year his team are the Pats' biggest rivals for the AFC, and more often than not he's been neck and neck with Brady in the best QB argument. He also wins a lot of awards, gets a lot of media attention and does a lot of commercials, which means people see him a lot even when they don't watch his games.
Honestly, if SoSH had somehow been around in the 80's, people would have been just as annoyed at Magic Johnson, and for basically the same reasons. When your team has one of two candidates for the league's best player for like a decade straight, then of course you're gonna develop some animosity towards the guy who has generally been the other candidate, especially if their respective teams play each other in intense playoff games nearly every year.
But, much like has happened with Magic, and I suspect will happen/is already happening with Mariano (who didn't have a direct rivalry with an iconic Sox player, but was strongly identified with their biggest rival for close to 20 years while receiving crazy amounts of media adulation), I suspect that once Manning has retired, the hate among Boston fans will mostly fade and most fans will admit they respected the guy.
drleather2001 said:
Is part of this because Peyton is more charismatic than Brady? I think it has something to do with it. I'm of the opinion that they are 2 of the greatest 5 QBs of all time, and its hard to distinguish between the two, but I also agree that Peyton gets more press than Brady. I think part of the reason is his personality though. He's smart, charming, and funny. I'm not saying Brady isn't those things either, but I haven't seen it come out in him like with Peyton.
glennhoffmania said:
But historically it has been given out far more often as a quasi-lifetime achievement award than to a guy who is having a great statistical season, but with no other great claim to the award. Manning only really makes any sense if there is a lifetime achievement component to his winning as well.
It is nice that YOU think that Mariano would have been a dumb choice and Manning isn't. But more of the past winners look like Mariano than like Peyton Manning, and Patriot fans are reacting to that. I don't think it is that hard to comprehend.
