Peavy Trade Rumors

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bankshot1

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Cashman knows. I don't think they have a shot (at the WS) even with Tanaka. But Cashman has a bigger monster to feed than the Sox do. If he throws in the towel now, 3-games out, there may a PO'ed owner who asks him "How the fuck do we spend $225MM and not make the post-season?. If he shows he's still dealing at least he's got the "we tried  to overcome the dead pitchers" comeback.
 

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bankshot1 said:
They're only 3 games behind Baltimore. They unlike us, are still alive in the shitty ALE.
 
I'd sell them Peavy and false hope for a real prospect.
 
i would not sell them a chance at a WS.
 
While 2004 eased the sting, in terms of trades, there would be nothing more alienating to the fan base than to enable a Yanks WS.  It won't matter how innocent or minimal the trade seemed at the time.   As we see from certain posters on the board, the idea of the Yanks signing our FAs (or even possibly signing our future FAs induces mouth foam.  
 
Not that they match up as trading partners, but it's hard to imagine the same reaction for a potential Baltimore or Toronto trade, even if that team went on to the WS. 
 
BTW - Stanley didn't even really count - he came to prominence in TX, signed with NYY for 4 years before signing with Boston as a FA.  Boston traded him after two good seasons back to NY - crucially the Yanks finished second that year and didn't make the playoffs.  He then goes to TOR as a FA, then resigns with the Sox as a FA for two solid seasons before he's released.  So he had two tours with NY and the Sox, but I don't think he was ever regarded as a "Yankee at heart" or anything like that.  
 
Were there other players like Stanley who bridged the NYY/Sox rivalry?  Meaning that they a) relatively effective for both teams, yet b) weren't scorned by one side or another for the switch?  Here's the total list: http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/multifranchise.cgi?level=team&t1=BOS-BOS&t2=NYY-NYY&t3=&t4=&submit=Find+Players
 
Discounting the cup of coffee/end of their career/embedded Yankee/Sox injury guys: 
 
Tiant was a bit before my time, but he seems to be remembered fondly in both cities. 
Ricky Henderson was a bit player on the Sox but I always think of him as an Athletic. 
 
The clear "villains" who intensified the rivalry, would be Clemens, Boggs, and to some extent Damon.  
 
I don't know how Aceves fits into this - equally loved and hated for a bit by both sides?  Or what about former prospects like Pavano?
 

mauf

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Don Baylor was a glue guy on the '86 squad, and I don't think he was hated in New York. The events of 2003 and 2004 ratcheted up the rivalry's intensity, though -- especially on their side. I don't know if that could happen now.

David Cone also switched sides and was able to go home again, but he didn't win anything here.
 

bankshot1

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Rovin Romine said:
 
While 2004 eased the sting, in terms of trades, there would be nothing more alienating to the fan base than to enable a Yanks WS.  It won't matter how innocent or minimal the trade seemed at the time.   As we see from certain posters on the board, the idea of the Yanks signing our FAs (or even possibly signing our future FAs induces mouth foam.  
 
Dealing with the MFY would be a "hold your nose and cross your fingers transaction", but the possibility to leverage their need for SP, the Sox deep-depth at SP, freeing up starts for that deep-depth, and getting a prospect of value, and IMO the most probable outcome is that even adding Peavy does not really increase the probability of the MFY advancing in the ALE, or the AL, makes this an avenue to at least explore.
 

bankshot1

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maufman said:
Don Baylor was a glue guy on the '86 squad, and I don't think he was hated in New York. The events of 2003 and 2004 ratcheted up the rivalry's intensity, though -- especially on their side. I don't know if that could happen now.

David Cone also switched sides and was able to go home again, but he didn't win anything here.
David Wells is in the club too. Even though he pitched for half of baseball, he never lost the MFY stink.
 
i always thought of Baylor as more an O or Angel
 

Rovin Romine

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bankshot1 said:
Dealing with the MFY would be a "hold your nose and cross your fingers transaction", but the possibility to leverage their need for SP, the Sox deep-depth at SP, freeing up starts for that deep-depth, and getting a prospect of value, and IMO the most probable outcome is that even adding Peavy does not really increase the probability of the MFY advancing in the ALE, or the AL, makes this an avenue to at least explore.
 
I understand the logic behind that kind of potential trade.  My point is that we'd never hear the end of it if the Yanks made a credible run featuring any traded Sox player.  
 

bankshot1

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Rovin Romine said:
 
I understand the logic behind that kind of potential trade.  My point is that we'd never hear the end of it if the Yanks made a credible run featuring any traded Sox player.  
I get it, but why let the talk-radio preclude a deal that may help the team?  I'd drop a dime and see what Cashman has available. and we survived Damon getting another ring. 
 

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bankshot1 said:
I get it, but why let the talk-radio preclude a deal that may help the team?  I'd drop a dime and see what Cashman has available. and we survived Damon getting another ring. 
 
Talk-radio, to some extent, is the fan base.  To view the issue coldly, there's the question of whether the bottom line is affected.  I'm really not sure if it would be though.  The "worst case" scenario would be  trading a player to the Yanks (and having them win the WS) while the Sox tank and pick up a useless prospect.  Does that affect future Sox decisions in terms of public pressure the scenario would generate?  Would it lead to splashy and unwise FA signings to generate positive publicity and sell advertising and so forth during the off-season?  I am not sure. 
 
Rightly or wrongly, I get the impression that this ownership wants to be viewed as "competitive."  Anything that sends a message that they might prematurely pull the plug or "weaken" the team will be avoided.  They do have a lot of credit in the bank, in terms of making bold moves which pay off.  Trading Nomar was a big deal, but blotted out by the 2004 victory.  2012 was a big deal, but it's dimmed by 2013.  They could probably fold a "worst case" trade into their overall narrative, provided they get to the post season fairly soon.  
 
As a thought experiment - would trading Ortiz to the Yanks, allowing the Yanks to win a WS be "damaging" to the franchise?  I have to guess it would be, no matter how the WAR falls out at the end of the day.   
 

LeoCarrillo

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They're not calling Cashman to push Peavy on the Yankees after his "brothers forever" comments about the 2013 Sox.
 

bankshot1

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Talk-radio, to some extent, is the fan base.  To view the issue coldly,
 
Dealing with the MFY is putting aside emotion, and trying to deal rationally with the subject.
 
IMO dealing Peavy to the Yankees would not materially change the math on the Yankees advancing in the post-season. They have too many holes on that team, that adding a 4-5 pitcher like Peavy does not address. But for the Sox it might add a prospect and allow another pitcher to get some valuable starts over the balance of the '14 season. The Sox pay Cherington to dismiss the lowest common denominator of talk radio and make smart decisions. If the Sox are going to trade Peavy, or lose him to FA anyway, why dismiss the one team that may pay the most for the guy, just because we traded Ruth?
 
IMO its worth a dime to find out.
 

Fred not Lynn

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The Yankees stand to feel the sting of a Peavy trade much more than the Red Sox. So what if he helps then win a WS this year? The Sox weren't going to anyway...

The risk the Yankees take is that the prospect(s) sent in return for a Peavy rental will develop nicely and bite them directly in the ass for many years to come.
 

nvalvo

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NY doesn't have much we want, though. Slade Heathcott, maybe? Aaron Judge?
 
Take a look at a recent Top-30 from a NYY blogger. How many of those guys would crack the Sox top 10? Sanchez and...
 

KillerBs

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I would love to know what happened with the Cards. it looked like this was on the verge of getting done on Tuesday PM, then went very cold very quick.
 
Cards have excess OFers, at least 8 by my count: Holliday, Bourjos, Taveras, Craig, Jay, Grichuk, Piscotty, Pham, any one of the last 5 of which you would think the Cards would want to move and would be of interest to the Sox. We have some "excess pitching" which you would think would be of interest to the Cards.  
 
Total speculation here of course, but I wonder if the Cards were looking for another player to go with large salary relief on Peavy. The Sox balked and tried to get another team engaged, hence the Braves rumors. Also I wonder if the Cards got pissed with some leaks.
 
In any event, what about Peavy, plus $$, and Barnes, for Grichuk, who is the guy I think we should target.  I would hate to lose Wright at this point in time, but it has to be considered for the right return.
 
Would we want Jay? He has better numbers than I realized, including at the minor league level. Maybe he is a fit, if you think we are at risk of getting too righty heavy. On a quick look of the stat page, Pham strikes me of the least interest.
 
All this in the context of some nagging doubts about Mookie in RF. I think I like him better in LF, which leaves us still to find a potential RF of the future, in Shane's absence, which is not Craig, IMO.  
 

BosRedSox5

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KillerBs said:
I would love to know what happened with the Cards. it looked like this was on the verge of getting done on Tuesday PM, then went very cold very quick.
 
I'm with you. Wasn't Cafardo or someone on NESN saying that a deal was all but done and just hinged on finances? Just what the hell happened? I'm crossing my fingers that they have some sort of logistical situation and they want to acquire Peavy at the last possible second for personnel reasons.
 

KillerBs

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I am struggling with how an injury to the catcher stands in the way of P for OF deal. If the Cards want/need a SP and have excess OFers to deal, why does the catcher getting hurt scuttle that?

I think the Cards got worried they were on verge of a Bagwell for Anderson deal and got cold feet. Grichuk does look like a catch and strikes me as legit for the Cards to ask for serious sweetener on top of Peavy, who after all , we want to move for the spot on the 25 man.
 

Lars The Wanderer

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KillerBs said:
I am struggling with how an injury to the catcher stands in the way of P for OF deal. If the Cards want/need a SP and have excess OFers to deal, why does the catcher getting hurt scuttle that?

I think the Cards got worried they were on verge of a Bagwell for Anderson deal and got cold feet. Grichuk does look like a catch and strikes me as legit for the Cards to ask for serious sweetener on top of Peavy, who after all , we want to move for the spot on the 25 man.
 
Because instead of using their excess outfielders for pitching, they now might need them to replace Molina's offense.
 

Harry Hooper

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KillerBs said:
I would love to know what happened with the Cards. it looked like this was on the verge of getting done on Tuesday PM, then went very cold very quick.
 
 
 
 
I suspect the Cards, knowing that the Sox were planning on having Rubby come up and start, thought the Sox would bite on quickly moving Peavy off the roster for minimal return.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
Is there a pressing need to complete this deal before Peavy's next turn?
 
Absolutely.  We need to deal him before other GMs discover he's just not very good (.804 OPS yuck).
 

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MakMan44 said:
Does Mookie's bat even play in LF? 
 
League average slash line for left fielders this year is 256/322/405.  In 2013 it was 259/323/412.  I don't think it's all that crazy to think that Mookie might have an acceptable bat for a starting left fielder once he settles in.  He'll never be a masher, but he also brings additional value in his base running/steals and the fact that his defense is likely to be on the excellent end of the spectrum.  I think he's more useful to the team in a Zobrist role, but I'm not worried about his bat holding up in a corner outfield spot.

This is getting pretty far afield of the Peavy trade discussion, though.
 

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I can understand why St. Louis dropped out.  However mediocre or bad Peavy has been this year so far, teams know he'll probably be worse over the rest of the season.
 
It's hard to pitch with a broken heart.
 

MakMan44

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Probably, but why would the Cardinals want AJP? He's nothing more than a warm body at this point.
 

LostinNJ

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Lars The Wanderer said:
 
Because instead of using their excess outfielders for pitching, they now might need them to replace Molina's offense.
Unless the rules are way different over there in the National League, they can play only three outfielders at a time, and they need to play someone at catcher. So Molina's injury should have nothing to do with Craig's availability. Why not try to add Pierzynski to the deal as a short-term fix? Bad as he is, he might be preferable to whatever else they could try.
 

Rovin Romine

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Hee Sox Choi said:
 
Absolutely.  We need to deal him before other GMs discover he's just not very good (.804 OPS yuck).
 
Peavy's game logs:  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=peavyja01&t=p&year=2014
 
Not exactly inspiring.  He'll go 6 innings.  Given a decent offense, half the time you'll be in the game, half the time you won't be in the game.  There's value to that if you're looking to fill in the rotation. 
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Meanwhile, in Cincinnati 
https://twitter.com/johnfayman/status/487295609116688384
 
Seems like a reasonable possibility for Peavy, if this is more than a one- or two-start thing.
 

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EvilEmpire said:
I can understand why St. Louis dropped out.  However mediocre or bad Peavy has been this year so far, teams know he'll probably be worse over the rest of the season.
 
It's hard to pitch with a broken heart.
 
Have you thought about switching your avatar due to an avatar jinx? Sort of like the SI jinx?
 
Put Betances on it next.
 

glennhoffmania

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LostinNJ said:
Unless the rules are way different over there in the National League, they can play only three outfielders at a time, and they need to play someone at catcher. So Molina's injury should have nothing to do with Craig's availability. Why not try to add Pierzynski to the deal as a short-term fix? Bad as he is, he might be preferable to whatever else they could try.
 
The point is that they could try to use Craig to acquire a catcher instead of Peavy if they decide that catcher is a bigger need.
 

EvilEmpire

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StuckOnYouk said:
 
Have you thought about switching your avatar due to an avatar jinx? Sort of like the SI jinx?
 
Put Betances on it next.
 
Nah.  I put him in my avatar when he was projected as a #3 starter who was expected to struggle transitioning to MLB.  Clearly, avatar status turned him into the dominant pitcher he is.  When healthy, of course.
 

joe dokes

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Peavy's game logs:  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=peavyja01&t=p&year=2014
 
Not exactly inspiring.  He'll go 6 innings.  Given a decent offense, half the time you'll be in the game, half the time you won't be in the game.  There's value to that if you're looking to fill in the rotation. 
 
My hope in the spring was that there would be enough shitty hitters in the AL so that Peavy could be moderately successful as the 5th best starter on the team. I have not compared him to the 5th best starters on other teams, but I think he probably stacks up ok in that regard (1.4 WHIP/4.81FIP). Replace a DH with a pitcher, and he can only do better. (of course, one of the Sox problems is that he ended up being the 3rd or 4th best starter).
 
For the Sox, at this point, there is less value in that now that they probably believe that either Workman or DLR can give them that same 5th best starter production now, with a higher upside going forward. Much like AJP, but without the suckage and possible baggage, Peavy is/was the placeholder while the FO assessed whether Vazquez, Workman, RDLR could contribute to / benefit from some somewhat regular MLB time.
 
And, much like dropping AJP, trading Peavy will *not* be a white flag move, since his replacements aren't likely to be considerably worse than he was.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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BosRedSox5 said:
CJ Wilson just went on the DL. I hope the Angels are interested in a Lackey redux.
 
Not sure why this is here and not the Trade Rumors thread, but the Angels had the worst farm system in the game at the start of the year according to BA.com.  I don't think they have anything in their system that makes me want to part with Lackey.  The Sox can find a much better deal elsewhere if they are inclined to cash in that option year.
 

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Speaking of Travis Shaw being somewhat of an afterthought, a very similar player in CJ Cron was considered the Angels top prospect heading into the season .
 

BosRedSox5

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https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/487334642430009344
 
Frank Wren said he's probably not interested on Bowden's show? Is this just posturing or are the Braves really not interested?
 

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Marbleheader said:
Speaking of Travis Shaw being somewhat of an afterthought, a very similar player in CJ Cron was considered the Angels top prospect heading into the season .
 
Cron reminds me of Will Middlebrooks in 2012.  Low OBP, high SLG for a solid OPS.  That 3.6% walk rate is a bit frightening, though.  I don't think you were suggesting him as a fair price for Lackey, but I would be very unhappy if that's the best they could do there.  Maybe a deal involving Peavy is possible, and for him and a non-top 10 prospect, Cron is worth a shot, but I don't see a match there as he's a first baseman and not even a very good one defensively at that.  Maybe they stash him in Pawtucket for a year and a half and let him and Shaw battle it out for the 2016 gig.
 

Merkle's Boner

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if you ignore the off-field incident, I'd like a chance at Villalona. Peavy and Middlebrooks enough?
The "off-field incident" is a murder charge that went away after he paid the family a six-figure settlement. I'd be shocked if they touch him.
 

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Rovin Romine said:
What to do the Giants have that would be a fit for our park/div?
 
There isn't much in their farm system.  I am uncertain as to why he hasn't gotten past the hitter friendly Cal League at age 24 but this former 46th Round draft pick by the Red Sox might be about what Peavy is worth anyway:
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=willia028joh
 
They don't have much else and even Mac Williamson is a weak prospect.
 
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