Pawsox being sold to Red Sox Ownership

mabrowndog

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John Skeffington, attorney and principal investor in the new ownership group, is meeting with the media at the proposed stadium site this morning.
 
Journal staff writer Kate Bramson, who is tweeting live from the event, said Skeffington assured her the former 195 land in Providence can fit a stadium, but the owners are not yet ready to talk about financing and a request for state support to build the stadium.
 

 
Kate Bramson @JournalKate

Jim Skeffington: Extensive due diligence. Can @PawSox stadium fit on this prtclr locale? "It is 1 of best sites our consultants have seen."
 
Kate Bramson @JournalKate

Jim Skeffington talks about quintessential New England church steeple behind him that will be visible if @PawSox here
 
Kate Bramson @JournalKate

"We'll B looking @ some divine assistance" from home plate, new @PawSox owner Jim Skeffington says, pointing 2 church
 

 
That's the First Unitarian Church (Benefit & Benevolent streets), looking ~NE from the site cross the river.
 
Brendan McGair ‏@BWMcGair03 17m17 minutes ago
James Skeffington: "Our goal is to make this a year round facility."
 

Kate Bramson @JournalKate  ·  3m 3 minutes ago

Jim Skeffington says @PawSox plans wld require @BrownUniversity 2sell & knock down contin'g ed bldg. No deal yet, tho
 
 

mabrowndog

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More on the walking tour
 
 
While Skeffington has said the owners want to build the stadium with their own funds, he has also said they're exploring various options in which they'd seek some form of public assistance. Rhode Island Commerce Secretary Stefan Pryor has said the state has not yet received a proposal from the PawSox owners about what form of taxpayer help they may want. Skeffington has said a new stadium might cost $60 to $70 million.
 
Skeffington has told The Providence Journal the team believes about seven acres they’ve identified along Dyer Street, west of the Providence River, will be enough for the stadium. That includes a former Route 195 parcel now slated to become a public park and the Brown University-owned lot to its north, where the university recently moved its Professional Studies and Continuing Education programs. But it would be a tight squeeze, he has said.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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mabrowndog said:
 
John Skeffington, attorney and principal investor in the new ownership group, is meeting with the media at the proposed stadium site this morning.
 
 


 
Kate Bramson @JournalKate

Jim Skeffington talks about quintessential New England church steeple behind him that will be visible if @PawSox here
 
Kate Bramson @JournalKate

"We'll B looking @ some divine assistance" from home plate, new @PawSox owner Jim Skeffington says, pointing 2 church



 
Dumb ass - the whole point of Providence, and Rhode Island, is that it was settled without a church steeple as a focal point.
 

mabrowndog

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Yeah, I'm with Rip. Having only an infield outline in that graphic is rather deceiving.
 
When I did some half-assed measuring on Google Earth in February, including super-imposing an existing new-ish AAA ballpark over the site (Lehigh Valley), it was clear they'd need the Brown U property, and that Dyer Street would need to be re-routed to the north and west. Granted this is opposite of the orientation planned, but the geometry is irrelevant.
 

 
And holy crap, I just noticed CoRP's stick figure in the river. Fat chance of me fitting my lard-ass into a kayak these days. ;)
 

steveluck7

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Lose Remerswaal said:
 
The building in the foreground with the small chimney and the parking lot next to it are the Brown U property that will have to come down to make this work
I don't think it's coming down. it was just built, like within the last 2 years
 
edit: completed in february 2012, according the the architect's website
 
They might look to pull in some of the land from the adjacent parcel to the south. That building, i believe is being transformed into the RI nursing school (URI, and RIC collab.) as well as some mixed-use stuff.
 

mabrowndog

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More from Skeffington
 
 
... The team has completed engineering, environmental and transportation studies and has determined the land they want in the capital city is "perfect for a ball field."

But hurdles remain, and the owners won't be ready until mid-April with a proposal that includes the amount of state support they're seeking for the project.

Skeffington revealed for the first time on Thursday that the team wants more former Route 195 land than they previously identified. They had said they wanted 4.8 acres now intended to become a public park. They also want Parcel 42, a 1.08-acre development parcel that has been identified as a good place for a hotel or housing, he said.

Skeffington also said the new owners of the Triple A franchise affiliated with the Boston Red Sox need property owned by Brown University, which would have to knock down its continuing-education building located at 200 Dyer Street. In all, they're eyeing about 8 acres of land, Skeffington said, but a portion of what Brown now owns could become a developable lot beyond the proposed outfield, Skeffington said.

Plus, the team would need the Narragansett Bay Commission to relocate some of its stormwater utilities that are underneath the proposed left field -- a cost Skeffington said hasn't yet been determined.
 

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mabrowndog said:
And holy crap, I just noticed CoRP's stick figure in the river. Fat chance of me fitting my lard-ass into a kayak these days. ;)
That's why I drew you skinny.  :) 
 

smastroyin

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They will certainly need the city to abandon Ship St. in that area and then think about subsequent traffic flow.  Richmond can't take the extra traffic so Eddy has to stay, though you could lose the street parking and maybe gain 12 feet there.
 
It's worth noting that footprint wise, the Iron Pigs have a bigger park than the Boston Red Sox.  So, if they are willing to build walls to the street on the city size and leave the concourses elsewhere, it is possible to fit something.  Fenway takes about 9 acres, this parcel is 7.  If they are willing to put all of the team offices on a different site, they can find a way to do it.  Maybe they could buy the Brown Building, put offices there, and build a concourse or grass area over it.  who knows.
 
Whatever the case, 60-70 million seems like a good estimate for building in a space where you can build what you want with no restrictions.  It might be a bit low to get something workable on this site.
 
The city will be asked to give up Ship St. and probably threaten if not use eminent domain with Brown for the continuing ed. building.  They will have to do infrastructure updating.
 
The state will give up 195 land designated for the park.  This is a public funds issue brouhaha that everyone is kind of ignoring.  If it were a 20 acre parcel and they could just re-arrange the placement of shape or the park, they would probably have no big opposition, but since there is no place to really have the park, they will have a fight (arguments about best use of the land aside, this is land that was designated for a park and has public bonds behind it)  The pedestrian bridge is already delayed waiting for this proposal among other things.
 
 
My opinion is that this is a good use of the land and that is a good spot.  A good urban park with the ticket windows right on Eddy St (no set-back) could be pretty great.  As I noted elsewhere, I would want them to commit to building a parking garage (they could partner, or whatever) across Eddy St. to serve the Garrihy Courthouse during the day (if you wanted predictable load and times you could make it the employee parking).  They could put their offices in this building as well to save on the footprint of the park itself.  I would not give them the land unless they also committed to some kind of pedestrian interaction along the river and to contribute to the pedestrian bridge.  If they are taking down the Brown U. building then that portion of the parcel they wouldn't need should become public space and connect into the pedestrian areas.  But the world isn't ideal.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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Projo reports what the public will be on the hook for under the proposed plan.
 
Rhode Island taxpayers would be asked to contribute $120 million over 30 years to help pay for an estimated $85-million ballpark the new PawSox owners want to build in the capital city.
 
In addition, the new investment group that owns the Triple A ball team is asking the City of Providence to waive all city real-estate taxes for 30 years.
 
The new owners of the PawSox said they will pay for the design and construction of the ballpark with private funds.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Yeah, I really don't get why the State would lease the stadium for $5 million a year and then sublease it back to the team for $1 million a year.
 

Beomoose

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Since this facility won't have its corporate sponsor name for some time yet, I have an irrational desire to call it Club Babyhead Field for now.
 
This is an odd nit to pick but: instead of aping the Block Island light with their outfield lighthouse, they should give tribute to one of the old providence-area lights that aren't around anymore. Because this is the sort of oddity I appreciate:
 

SidelineCameras

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Here's a stupid question from someone who's not an architect - would they really have a facility with no access points for trucks and other vehicles besides the city street? No parking lot is one thing - doesn't this place need a loading dock? Does the visiting team bus pull up and parallel park to let the team off?
 
I don't even know if I'm asking this question correctly. 
 

smastroyin

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These are the practical things they don't put in renders because they are less pretty and when you are trying to win hearts noone cares about the ugly practical.
 
Basically, that whole "park" south of the site I'm guessing is complete bullshit.
 
Signed,
 
Mr. skeptical of this plan after hearing the financials.
 

moondog80

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Lose Remerswaal said:
There's no loading dock at McCoy or any place to drive a vehicle into the building itself.  There is a driveway from the parking lot to the field itself, but that's all.
 
I think he means the simple presence of an area to pull into for deliveries and drop offs.  When the beer truck comes, do they just back into that small area labeled "South Entry Plaza"?  McCoy, of course, has no problem receiving deliveries.
 

JimD

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I have a lot of great memories of attending Pawsox games at McCoy and hope the affiliate remains in Rhode Island, but I really hate these money grabs.  I'm not a RI resident and have no skin in the game, but it just doesn't seem like the state can afford this.
 

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I still think the whole thing amounts to the state being sold a bag of magic beans, but this location looks vaguely more palatable:
 
The benefits of the Victory location:
  • The site has significantly better highway access
  • Road access on all four sides - giving the ball park a Fenway Park-like feel
  • No utilities issues in contrast to the proposed land
  • Private land that would not require state involvement 
  • Would not adversely impact access to the planned pedestrian bridge
 
  •  
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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A slightly less exciting plot of land, but still accessible to downtown. The vacant lot across Hospital St. could work for a garage too.

Two other recent notes that seem to show that there might be some flexibility on the Paw Sox side.

3. The PawSox are willing to talk -- to a point. "We are prepared to adjust, amend, negotiate our proposal," Lucchino said. He likened the discussion of the team's proposal to the early innings of a nine-inning game.

http://ripr.org/post/7-things-know-about-larry-lucchinos-pawsox-stadium-pitch-ri

In a letter sent Saturday, the Pawtucket Red Sox' new ownership requests a meeting with Governor Gina Raimondo "to consider various alternatives and explore ways to accomplish our mutual objective" of keeping the PawSox in Rhode Island with a Providence stadium, "including the possible purchase of the state land for the ballpark."

http://ripr.org/post/pawsox-seek-meeting-raimondo-team-signals-flexibility-after-negative-reaction-proposal
 

steveluck7

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FWIW,The Ownership group has debunked the new location rumor on their facebook page
 
 
The rumors about an alternate site for the PawSox ballpark are NOT true! Discussions for plans of utilizing the original parcel of land on the banks of the Providence River, within the I-195 District Commission, are underway!
 

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That would be one helluva traffic jam every time they have a 7 p.m. game. Same goes for both sites.
 

smastroyin

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I think they thought that people would be so jazzed by the idea of the stadium that they would ignore the price.  The public response has been so negative they need to move the needle a bit.
 
But, then throwing in an extra $10 million or whatever to buy the land doesn't really move the needle for me.  And I doubt the number would be that high.
 

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smastroyin said:
I think they thought that people would be so jazzed by the idea of the stadium that they would ignore the price.  The public response has been so negative they need to move the needle a bit.
 
Even though there's no connection, I'd guess the Curt Schilling fiasco which cost RI taxpayers plenty is playing a part in the negativity.  It's good that people would be suspicious - enough with the givebacks.  That stadium does look great though.
 

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I find it endlessly entertaining that Lucchino keeps referring to the age of McCoy as the reason that the Pawsox MUST move, as he again cited today. This, coming from one of the engineers of the Fenway revitalization. They are being remarkably disingenuous and people are really calling them out on it. 
 

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smastroyin said:
I think they thought that people would be so jazzed by the idea of the stadium that they would ignore the price.  The public response has been so negative they need to move the needle a bit.
 
But, then throwing in an extra $10 million or whatever to buy the land doesn't really move the needle for me.  And I doubt the number would be that high.
I might be making connections that aren't there, but in hindsight it seems remarkably tone deaf for them to have presented a plan which exempts team's facilities from property taxes in the middle of tax season. 
 

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Leon Trotsky said:
I find it endlessly entertaining that Lucchino keeps referring to the age of McCoy as the reason that the Pawsox MUST move, as he again cited today. This, coming from one of the engineers of the Fenway revitalization. They are being remarkably disingenuous and people are really calling them out on it. 
Fenway is a historic stadium in the heart of a prime Boston location. McCoy...not so much. Not really analogous situations.
 

yeahlunchbox

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Fenway is also a place where you can't comfortably watch a game and is horribly outdated for a major league park. McCoy is a fine place to watch a game and is not the joke that Fenway is when compared with its competitors in AAA baseball
 

moondog80

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yeahlunchbox said:
Fenway is also a place where you can't comfortably watch a game and is horribly outdated for a major league park. McCoy is a fine place to watch a game and is not the joke that Fenway is when compared with its competitors in AAA baseball
 
Fenway is a place that still has no problem selling most of its tickets.  Attendance at McCoy has been in steady decline, down about 25% last year from its peak in 2005.
 
 
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2006&t=l_att&lid=117&sid=l117
 

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Beomoose said:
I might be making connections that aren't there, but in hindsight it seems remarkably tone deaf for them to have presented a plan which exempts team's facilities from property taxes in the middle of tax season. 
The other bit of timing is that it's all come down just as the state was putting the finishing touches on the pension "reforms" that were spearheaded by Raimondo as treasurer.  I can't see her as being eager to be known as the Governor who cut pensions and then threw cash at a bunch of jillionaires for a baseball stadium.
 

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smastroyin said:
I think they thought that people would be so jazzed by the idea of the stadium that they would ignore the price.  The public response has been so negative they need to move the needle a bit.
 
But, then throwing in an extra $10 million or whatever to buy the land doesn't really move the needle for me.  And I doubt the number would be that high.
 
It will be interesting to see how they resolve or renegotiate the land purchase vs. lease.  The lease-sublease plan (net $4,000,000 from RI to the team) was necessary to create the leasehold value that the ownership group could use to go get private financing for the stadium construction. 
 

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Providence city councilman calls bullshit on the current proposal. Yeah, he gets a little carried away with the baseball puns (it's a wild pitch, taking money from the city and state is a double steal), but he's right -- it's a lousy plan for a city that doesn't have a lot of "what the hell it sounds like fun" money lying around.

The councilman in question, I happen to know for a fact, is a massive Sox fan and would love the idea of a downtown stadium if it weren't such a bad deal. I know this because he's my brother.

http://wpri.com/2015/04/27/providence-councilman-calls-pawsox-plan-a-wild-pitch/
 

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Mugsys Jock said:
Providence city councilman calls bullshit on the current proposal. Yeah, he gets a little carried away with the baseball puns (it's a wild pitch, taking money from the city and state is a double steal), but he's right -- it's a lousy plan for a city that doesn't have a lot of "what the hell it sounds like fun" money lying around.

The councilman in question, I happen to know for a fact, is a massive Sox fan and would love the idea of a downtown stadium if it weren't such a bad deal. I know this because he's my brother.

http://wpri.com/2015/04/27/providence-councilman-calls-pawsox-plan-a-wild-pitch/
Sam's your brother?  Good to know I don't have to start a petition in the neighborhood to convince him to vote against it.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I guess this is news, though not informative

A Pawtucket Red Sox spokeswoman says the team's owners are looking differently at the public-private partnership for a proposed stadium in Providence.

Doyle says they will now look at an "entirely different way" to structure the public-private partnership. She says they're talking with lawmakers and "working diligently on exploring a different way to keep the PawSox in Rhode Island."

http://www.turnto10.com/story/28994828/pawsox-looking-differently-at-public-private-partnership
 

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Brohamer of the Gods said:
I guess this is news, though not informative

A Pawtucket Red Sox spokeswoman says the team's owners are looking differently at the public-private partnership for a proposed stadium in Providence.

Doyle says they will now look at an "entirely different way" to structure the public-private partnership. She says they're talking with lawmakers and "working diligently on exploring a different way to keep the PawSox in Rhode Island."

http://www.turnto10.com/story/28994828/pawsox-looking-differently-at-public-private-partnership
Probably just a coincidence that this comes two days after the legislature contracted with Andrew Zimbalist to provide them with advice on the negotiation process and deal.
 

smastroyin

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Of the people surveyed after the original deal was put forth, Zimbalist was the only one who thought having the team was worth something in and of itself, which is probably also worth noting when they chose him.
 
Point being that I'm not sure Zimbalist is the guy they would bring in if they were going to play hardball.  I was surprised they went with him and it probably indicates they will allow the state to take a financial hit as on balance they think the PR of losing the team is worse than PR of taking on another financial loser of a project.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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The language on both sides in recent weeks seems to be leaning towards "there is a deal to be made here."

I also have a Facebook friend who is convinced the Providence stadium deal is only a part of Lucchino's Boston Olympic bid plotting, so we have to look forward to as well.
 

smastroyin

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To be honest, the Olympics would probably be pretty great in general for Providence.  Of course, speculative real estate deals in anticipation of a Boston Olympics might be a bit of a gamble.