RB is still a top need. LGBT is at best a 1 year stop gap with the possibility of not making the team. They thought so much of Gaffney they exposed him to waivers.
Pats FA Watch: LGBT Back on a 1-year Deal
- Thread starter jsinger121
- Start date
You believe they'll go into the season with this running back group? Still think they draft one relatively high.
That is possible, sure.
I don't see it as an overall or draft necessity.
LGBT, Gaffney, Brown, Lewis, White, Develin, Bolden, Iosefa are the RB depth. If anything, I see the team picking up someone who plays well enough in camp but is cut for cap or roster related reasons.
I don't see it as an overall or draft necessity.
LGBT, Gaffney, Brown, Lewis, White, Develin, Bolden, Iosefa are the RB depth. If anything, I see the team picking up someone who plays well enough in camp but is cut for cap or roster related reasons.
Last edited:
I suppose any analysis depends on Reynolds and his availability and whether NE sees him as a pure RB or a RB/TE/WR hybrid.
I didn't include him here because I don't think he is drafted as a pure RB by NE.
I didn't include him here because I don't think he is drafted as a pure RB by NE.
Last edited:
I can see somebody like Kenneth Dixon of LA Tech as a possibility to be drafted at 60 or 61 depending on how the board shakes out. But, for the most part, I agree with Dog that OL/DL will be a big need in the draft. They need a good swing tackle and a big-bodied DL as Branch and Knighton insurance after this year.
If we have CB as fifth on our draft progression, I'd be shocked. It's a top 3 need, IMO.
How so? Right now they have Butler, Ryan, Biggers, Coleman and Roberts. That's a pretty solid group. Depth is always good so some other bodies would be great but definitely not a pressing need.
It is in no way a solid group, IMO. Malcolm Butler can play, he's extremely promising. Not just that, he's damn good now.
Logan Ryan had the occasional very good game, most notably v Houston and Denver (in the regular season), but I agree with the folks at PFW who didn't/don't see Ryan as a consistently effective #2. He's decent, I guess. Would be a solid #3.
Roberts is a 7th round pick who showed up on lists of young players "flashing" in a few practices, but that is just an incredibly small and nearly meaningless sample size. I'm excited to see what he can do, but it would be pretty negligent to assume the team is all set at corner based even somewhat on him. We have no idea if he will even make the roster.
Justin Coleman was solid at moments last year, and I'm hopeful he can develop. But again this is not anything like a proven asset on the depth chart.
None of us has any idea what Biggers is beyond special teams and maybe he can play in the secondary...we'll see.
I realize I'm likely in the minority here, but despite the fact that I share your hope for a potentially solid group, I see an absolutely pressing need. I would be surprised if BB doesn't take a corner with one of his first four picks.
Edit typos
Logan Ryan had the occasional very good game, most notably v Houston and Denver (in the regular season), but I agree with the folks at PFW who didn't/don't see Ryan as a consistently effective #2. He's decent, I guess. Would be a solid #3.
Roberts is a 7th round pick who showed up on lists of young players "flashing" in a few practices, but that is just an incredibly small and nearly meaningless sample size. I'm excited to see what he can do, but it would be pretty negligent to assume the team is all set at corner based even somewhat on him. We have no idea if he will even make the roster.
Justin Coleman was solid at moments last year, and I'm hopeful he can develop. But again this is not anything like a proven asset on the depth chart.
None of us has any idea what Biggers is beyond special teams and maybe he can play in the secondary...we'll see.
I realize I'm likely in the minority here, but despite the fact that I share your hope for a potentially solid group, I see an absolutely pressing need. I would be surprised if BB doesn't take a corner with one of his first four picks.
Edit typos
I see a need at back-up corner too. If Butler or Ryan goes down, they don't have a particularly good option behind them.
That said, I'd rather see them target the offensive line and RB first. The Pats lost their last game because the o-line couldn't keep Brady clean and they had no semblance of a running game. Dante and Lewis/Blount coming back should help but they still need more talent. And they need that more than they need depth at corner.
That said, I'd rather see them target the offensive line and RB first. The Pats lost their last game because the o-line couldn't keep Brady clean and they had no semblance of a running game. Dante and Lewis/Blount coming back should help but they still need more talent. And they need that more than they need depth at corner.
Darryl Roberts was certainly looking like a capable player last year before he broke his wrist, so I wouldn't really have corner near the top of the list for this year, but they may want to take one or two looking to the future in case Ryan leaves and/or a contender is willing to give up a late first next year to snag Butler.
I might quibble with some of these, but taking your assessments at face value, I think there's still a question of how a rookie is going to materially approve the situation. If they grab a corner with a late second or late third, it's probably not a guy who's going to push Ryan, but another question mark with some talent who will compete with Roberts / Coleman / Biggers for rotational duties and on special teams. They should probably still spend a fairly high pick on CB given the contract situations of Butler and Ryan, but when it comes to 2016 needs we probably need to be realistic that the draft is a tough place to get short-term contributors with no first-round pick. That's not just true at CB but at most positions on the roster.
The exceptions are probably RB and interior OL, where the lack of "positional value" depresses prospect value and the team is a weak enough at those positions that they could potentially get a plug-and-play starter in the late second.
FAKE EDIT: I can't decide whether I'm making a really point here or just being a negative nelly, but dammit I'm going to post anyway.
A perfectly reasonable critique, whatever the motivation. I agree, good corners who can come in and battle for legit or even starter minutes are a rarity, especially deep into the 2nd or 3rd round. What I suspect this all comes down to is a difference in evaluations - I think Logan Ryan as an entrenched starting #2 CB is a pretty big concern for this team. Most people here seem to disagree.
I sincerely hope you guys are right and I'm wrong.
I sincerely hope you guys are right and I'm wrong.
You may be right, I may be Billy Joel but I feel that CB depth will be addressed late in the draft or a roster cut from another team. Heck, there may even be an undrafted guy as part of the calculus. I just don't think BB will use a higher pick this year on CB with the OL/DL needs and no first rounder.
Pertinent to the discussion of the CB group, Louis Riddick of ESPN chimes in on Logan Ryan.
Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPN 19s20 seconds ago
I love watching #Patriots CB Logan Ryan play press-man. Does it the way you draw it up.
Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPN 19s20 seconds ago
I love watching #Patriots CB Logan Ryan play press-man. Does it the way you draw it up.
If you added up all of the CB's and divided them out equally, Ryan probably isn't a #2 CB. But he's a good #2 CB for this team. Butler can play against anyone, IMO, but he's great against smaller guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown, who are extremely hard to cover. Butler can do it and pretty much do it on an island. That leaves Ryan to match up with bigger WR's like Demaryius Thomas and Martavis Bryant with safety help or frees up a guy to blitz.
I could see the Pats adding a CB in the draft, but don't see it as a pressing need. And it's going to be difficult to find someone at the end of round 2 or later that is going to be better than Ryan will be next year.
Also there's the ability for him to, you know, still improve.
Why are we talking like he is what he is at this point in his career? If he takes even a small step forward, he's a clear #2.
Why are we talking like he is what he is at this point in his career? If he takes even a small step forward, he's a clear #2.
Geez, I'd have to disagree that Ryan wouldn't, I guess, be in the top 64 corners in the NFL. I thought his play rivaled Butler's at times, and I think you could probably argue his play from last year would have been in the top 32.
It's bad form to post asking someone to do their homework for them, but I'd love it if someone who knows the rest of league well could put together a quick breakdown of what all (or even just the top teams, AFCE, whatever) of the other team's top-3 CB situation is like, so we could have some comparison to judge the Patriots' situation against. That'd make a nice thread, IMO.
"#1 corner" is kind of like "#1 starter"...it conjures up an image of a true ace or shut down corner, but when you actually go through the the rosters there are usually only 10-15 of those guys around. 3 corners basically start these days so yes it starts to get pretty thin looking at 90+ players league wide. Corner still seems like a real need along with the lines. Pats don't have a great injury history at this position either.
Right, that's pretty much my thinking as well - and my point - but it would be awesome if someone did a breakdown of the top-3 CBs (as you say, three are essentially the starters) for each team so we could put some perspective on the Patriots' situation beyond the obscure "#1, #2, etc..." labels.
Maybe it's just me, but I really don't know how "deep" the Pats are at CB without a clearer understanding of what "depth" other teams have.
Ryan and Butler are both restricted free agents after this year. Butler will get a first-round tender, but is it expected that Ryan will? Per ITP, his cap hit would be 3.65 million and that would be about 46th for corners this year according to OverTheCap. He's at risk to be signed to a contract the Pats don't want to match with a second-round tender. The Pats could see it as his last year and draft a CB high to replace him.
Far afield here, but Bleacher Report ranks the top 101 CBs every year: http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2623992-br-nfl-1000-ranking-the-top-101-cornerbacks-from-2015
They have Butler at #12, Ryan at #30, Coleman at #63. Biggers at #82.
They have Butler at #12, Ryan at #30, Coleman at #63. Biggers at #82.
Here are what I see as each team's top 3 CBs currently on the roster. How many groups would you take over the Patriots top 3?
NFC East
Dallas--Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne, Byron Jones
NY Giants--Janoris Jenkins, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Trevin Wade
Philadelphia--Nolan Carroll, Leodis McKelvin, Eric Rowe
Washington--Bashaud Breeland, Will Blackmon, Greg Toler
NFC South
Atlanta--Desmond Trufant, Jalen Collins, DeMarcus Van Dyke
NO--Delvin Breaux, Kyle Wilson, Keenan Lewis
Carolina--Josh Norman, Brandon Boykin, Robert McClain
TB--Brent Grimes, Johnathan Banks, Alterraun Verner
NFC North
Green Bay--Sam Shields, Demetrius Randall, Quentin Rollins
Chicago--Kyle Fuller, Tracy Porter, Bryce Callahan
Minnesota--Xavier Rhodes, Terrence Neuman, Captain Munnerlyn
Detroit--Darius Slay, Darrin Walls, Quandre Diggs
NFC West
Seattle--Richard Sherman, Jeremy Lane, Tharold Simon
Arizona--Patrick Peterson, Justin Bethel, Asa Jackson
San Fransisco--Tramaine Brock, Kenneth Acker, Dontae Johnson
LA--Trumaine Johnson, EJ Gaines, Coty Sensebaugh
AFC East
NE--Malcolm Butler, Logan Ryan, Justin Coleman
NYJ--Darrelle Revis, Buster Skrine, Marcus Williams
Miami--Jamar Taylor, Byron Maxwell, Bobby McCain
Buffalo--Stephon Gilmore, Ronald Darby, Nickell Roby
AFC North
Baltimore--Jimmy Smith, Kyle Arrington, Shareece Wright
Pittsburgh---William Gay, Senquez Golson, Ross Cockrell
Cincinnati--Adam Jones, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard
Cleveland--Joe Haden, Justin Gilbert, Jordan Poyer
AFC South
Houston--Kareem Jackson, Johnathan Joseph, Kevin Johnson
Indianapolis--Vontae Davis, Darius Butler, Patrick Robinson
Jacksonville--Prince Amukamara, Aaron Colvin, Davon House
Tennessee--Jason McCourty, Perrish Cox, Brice McCain
AFC West
Denver--Aqib Talib, Chris Harris, Bradley Roby
KC--Marcus Peters, Jamell Fleming, Marcus Cooper
SD--Brandon Flowers, Casey Hayward, Jason Verrett
Oakland--Sean Smith, DJ Hayden, David Amerson
NFC East
Dallas--Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne, Byron Jones
NY Giants--Janoris Jenkins, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Trevin Wade
Philadelphia--Nolan Carroll, Leodis McKelvin, Eric Rowe
Washington--Bashaud Breeland, Will Blackmon, Greg Toler
NFC South
Atlanta--Desmond Trufant, Jalen Collins, DeMarcus Van Dyke
NO--Delvin Breaux, Kyle Wilson, Keenan Lewis
Carolina--Josh Norman, Brandon Boykin, Robert McClain
TB--Brent Grimes, Johnathan Banks, Alterraun Verner
NFC North
Green Bay--Sam Shields, Demetrius Randall, Quentin Rollins
Chicago--Kyle Fuller, Tracy Porter, Bryce Callahan
Minnesota--Xavier Rhodes, Terrence Neuman, Captain Munnerlyn
Detroit--Darius Slay, Darrin Walls, Quandre Diggs
NFC West
Seattle--Richard Sherman, Jeremy Lane, Tharold Simon
Arizona--Patrick Peterson, Justin Bethel, Asa Jackson
San Fransisco--Tramaine Brock, Kenneth Acker, Dontae Johnson
LA--Trumaine Johnson, EJ Gaines, Coty Sensebaugh
AFC East
NE--Malcolm Butler, Logan Ryan, Justin Coleman
NYJ--Darrelle Revis, Buster Skrine, Marcus Williams
Miami--Jamar Taylor, Byron Maxwell, Bobby McCain
Buffalo--Stephon Gilmore, Ronald Darby, Nickell Roby
AFC North
Baltimore--Jimmy Smith, Kyle Arrington, Shareece Wright
Pittsburgh---William Gay, Senquez Golson, Ross Cockrell
Cincinnati--Adam Jones, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard
Cleveland--Joe Haden, Justin Gilbert, Jordan Poyer
AFC South
Houston--Kareem Jackson, Johnathan Joseph, Kevin Johnson
Indianapolis--Vontae Davis, Darius Butler, Patrick Robinson
Jacksonville--Prince Amukamara, Aaron Colvin, Davon House
Tennessee--Jason McCourty, Perrish Cox, Brice McCain
AFC West
Denver--Aqib Talib, Chris Harris, Bradley Roby
KC--Marcus Peters, Jamell Fleming, Marcus Cooper
SD--Brandon Flowers, Casey Hayward, Jason Verrett
Oakland--Sean Smith, DJ Hayden, David Amerson
For some reason I find it amusing that Bleacher Report's #1 overall CB doesn't even crack the top 3 on his own team in your rankings - Tyrann Mathieu in Arizona.
That's a matter of debate - he lines up at both. I think he's officially listed at safety but since he plays corner in nickel he ends up playing more CB than anything else.
Thanks.
They still have Robert Alford, no?
Benwikere should be back at some point.
Last year's first-rounder Trae Waynes will probably have a bigger role, too.
Mike Reiss @MikeReiss 1m1 minute ago
Patriots announce signing of LB Tony Steward and LS Christian Yount. Steward a 6th round pick of Bills last year.
Did someone say captain for the Bills game??!!
Patriots announce signing of LB Tony Steward and LS Christian Yount. Steward a 6th round pick of Bills last year.
Did someone say captain for the Bills game??!!
LS must be strictly a camp body no?
You don't draft a LS in the 5th rd if you aren't expecting him to at least play out his rookie contract.
When said 5th rounder's primary job is to be in the Navy it probably helps to have a contingency plan.
Both. Duh. Extra mojo
Edit: but seriously the worse the player the better the prospective captain!