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Patriots at Lions, Week 3

Discussion in '2018 Patriots Game Threads' started by DrewDawg, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. SoFloSoxFan

    SoFloSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    If you voice any vulnerability or disappointment as a fan, you are a bad fan. The superior fans must let you know that they are better fans.
     
  2. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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  3. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Good Christ, KC may put up 50 against us.
     
  4. McBride11

    McBride11 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I agree the Pats havent looked good. There are issues. Maybe they arent the 14-2 world beaters we have seen for the past 18 years. This ride is going to end and we as fans will be like other fans where going into each game will be more of a worry / unknown.
    But when people cry out, F Bb and F TB after 1 drive it seems silly.
    Omg BB the GM is the worst evahhh!! He works with low draft picks. Some are busts. Some are stupid picks. He cant pay everyone. He and Tom are great but they aint perfect. And shit the other side gets paid lots of money to do their jobs as well.
    Maybe they end up 1-15, I remember those days, but the supreme negativity just seems like a lot of spoiled fandom.
     
  5. Bongorific

    Bongorific Member SoSH Member

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    I’m just going off the top of my head but there’s only 5-6 guys that overlap of those defenses.
    But I agree with your point as a whole. They’ve had a decade of having a mediocre or worse defense that relies on an elite offense. Can’t have it all
     
  6. kelpapa

    kelpapa Member SoSH Member

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    There is a difference between saying you are disappointed and the sky is falling.
     
  7. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Those takes are dumb I agree. But when people just try to shrug this off and use the past as an indicator of what will happen is another faction of spoiled fandom too. Being negative currently is just being real and seeing what kind of performances they’ve put out there. They’re getting their asses handed to them up front on both sides of the ball. That will lose a game every single time.

    I think they can turn it around and be in position to be a playoff team. However it’s going to be a serious grind to get there given they are already 2 games back in the division.
     
  8. kelpapa

    kelpapa Member SoSH Member

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    2,499
    Of players that showed up in the box score of Super Bowl 51 and today's game, there are DMC, Hightower, Harmon, Roberts, Jones, Brown and Van Noy.
     
  9. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    Tom after the game look pissed and sad. Also seemed to indicate that James White should be seeing more snaps than Sony.
     
  10. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I think there are reasons to be more worried about this vintage of the Pats than the usual "feeling their way through September" versions from years past.

    The defense sucks and doesn't seem to have a lot of upside for improvement. Flowers and Chung getting healthy will help, sure. But Hightower and McCourty look old. Their D-line was just completely dominated by a team that hadn't had a 100+ yard rusher in like 4 years. The LBs look painfully slow. The veteran additions they made (Clayborn, Shelton, McCourty # 2) have largely sucked.

    Bedard had some pretty damning video breakdowns of the Jags game last week on BSJ, where it looked like the Pats had the right defense called and the players just weren't good enough to make the play. Same things looked to be happening tonight (except for the Jones TD, which certainly appeared like either Harmon or Gilmore messed up).

    Unlike previous seasons, the offense seems ill equipped to bail out the defense. Mainly due to the black hole of suck at the wideout position. People can point to how dynamic the offense could be with Edelman and Gordon, but that would be the best possible outcome in a wide range of potential outcomes. If you're relying on the return of a 31 year old coming off of ACL surgery and a recovering drug addict who hasn't played more than 5 games in a season since 2013, has never taken a snap for the Pats, and was just acquired last week..... well, your roster has problems.

    To paraphrase Bedard again, trading for Gordon wasn't some brilliant "buy low" move. It was an act of desperation that shows how far their talent pool at WR has dipped from previous seasons. Some of that was due to bad luck with injuries to guys they brought in this offseason, but that's not really salient to the discussion of how good this team will be. We can argue about what they could or should have done differently, but the roster they have is the roster they have.

    As others have pointed out, Hogan has gone from being 3rd banana (at WR, not including Gronk or RBs) the past two seasons to being the top WR option. Chris Hogan is a nice player and this isn't his fault, but he's simply not good enough to be the best WR on your team. I guess we can hold out hope that in two weeks Edelman and Gordon are going to save the day. I mean, I sure hope they do. But I'm certainly not going to bet on it.

    This team has problems and I think there are legitimate reasons to be dubious about the potential solutions. I'm not sounding alarm bells yet but I am a bit worried. And if they lose at home to Miami.... well, then it might be time to crack each others heads open and feast on the goo inside.
     
  11. McBride11

    McBride11 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yup. The Miami game next week is going to be important. 1 back vs 3. The lines need to improve their play, a lot.
     
  12. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Question to Brady was “What do you have to do to get James White involved in the offense?”

    Maybe he does feel that way but I’m not sure you can read that into his answer.
     
  13. Bongorific

    Bongorific Member SoSH Member

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    This is a good post.
    I like the Gordon gamble because they needed to do it. That they did, signaled that BB is concerned about the roster.
     
  14. Ralphwiggum

    Ralphwiggum Member SoSH Member

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    The team looks really shitty, and I as wrote last night, maybe this is the beginning of the end (or maybe the end just fucking landed on our heads and we're way past the beginning of the end). I've got no issues with people being pissed, hell I'm annoyed too. I just think, given everything that has gone on here over the past 18 years, that the coach and the QB should be given a little bit more latitude then flipping out on them, saying they are done or they have quit after two games. Particularly anyone saying either guy has quit, which just does not square with what we know about either them.

    People forget they were 9-7 in 2002 (and were fucking lucky to win 9) and 10-6 and pretty mediocre in 2005, in 2009 they were OK but not great. I mean, maybe we are going to bottom out here and go 3-13 or something like that, or maybe they are just mediocre and go 8-8. My guess, however, is they are going to win their 10 games and be in contention for the division, but, at least right now, the roster does not look like one that is going to be able to do much in the playoffs. The point is, there have been other years during this run when this has been the case. The "problem" is that we don't remember them because since the 2010 season they have gone 14, 13, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14, 13, which is insane.

    Anyone arguing that any other NFL team out there is doing it better than the Pats and BB in terms of roster construction needs to show their work. Its the dumbest of dumb takes, even for a game thread. That does not mean this year's roster is very good, we can all see the holes that exist, and criticizing them is fair game. Getting into a criticism of BB's overall roster philosophy seems pretty misplaced from my standpoint.
     
  15. eustis22

    eustis22 lurker

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    I understand, but my point wasn't that Pitt/Bal don't have bad coaching and Balt wildly overcompensated a hack like Flacco, but more that both offensively and defensively (especially defensively), they are continually infusing their teams with good young talent. Again, the Pats are not payingTB and Gronk what they are worth. So who ARE they paying?
     
  16. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Hightower, Shaq Mason, Gilmore.
     
  17. Mystic Merlin

    Mystic Merlin Member SoSH Member

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    Miguel’s cap page and spotrac dot com are available for your viewing pleasure.
     
  18. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    I've said since the day he left, and I'll say it until it no longer looks true, but Dion Lewis is the guy that this offense is going to miss this year. He brought so, so much to the table. When they needed to, they could go with a 2 back set with Lewis and White on the field together, and it made them almost impossible to guard.

    Which brings me to Josh McDaniels. I don't understand what was going on yesterday. Not even a little bit. The offense was so bland and predictable, and they just kept doing the same shit over and over again. What happened to the screen passes? What happened to the end arounds and reverses and shit he'd been trying in the first two games? If he wants Michel on the field so bad, why not go with a two back set and leave White out there with him? Why does it have to be either/or? Josh seems to go into these modes where it feels like he's not even trying. There was no creativity, there was no "shit, this ain't working, let's try this..."

    The defense will figure things out. They aren't going to be the 2003 defense, but they'll figure out a way to hold teams to 21-24 points or less, like they always do. But, if this offense is scoring 16 points and 10 points a week, the Pats are fucked, and if Edelman and Gordon aren't the answer, then the answer has to come from Josh, and last night was not a very good indicator that he's figured out what to do with this group at all. Does anyone know if Dorsett is even healthy? Didn't he get hurt at the tail end of the game on a long pass down the sideline? If he's hurt, and Gordon can't go next week, we've got 2 fucking receivers on the roster, and Rex "Glass Joe" Burkhead is probably done for a while. They brought in Dontrelle Inman for a workout today. Dontrelle Inman for chrissakes. This is starting to remind me of the Reche Caldwell years. God, I miss Dion.
     
  19. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    FWIW they ran 48 plays Sunday, White for 25, Michel for 23, and Burkhead for 7, so there were at least seven plays with multiple RB. I'm guessing that formation wasn't any more effective than anything else they were doing.

    I'm pretty sure they announced he went back in the game. He played 45/48 snaps, and there were five plays on the last drive so he must have gone back in. Which doesn't mean he'll be 100% for Miami, of course.
     
  20. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    30,070
    No, they didn't run it, not once by my count. If I'm not mistaken, all 7 of the plays in which they had two backs on the field were the same seven plays that Burkhead was on the field. None of those were two back sets, Burkhead was in the slot. On 3 of those 7, he had a pass thrown to him (2 catches for 26 yards).

    Like I said, I could be mistaken, and maybe they ran a two back set once, or twice, but that's a far cry from what they did with Lewis and White. When Michel was on the field, White was on the bench, and vice versa. In this offense right now, White cannot be standing on the sidelines for more than 50% of the snaps. He just can't. He's one of two guys that Brady really trusts out there. If Josh is so intent on getting Michel onto the field, that's fine, but he can't do it at the expense of James White. White as a second back out of the backfield is more valuable to this offense right now than Hogan or Dorsett on the outside. And to my larger point, Josh's offensive gameplan was shit. From start to finish. It was probably the least creative and thoughtful I've ever seen him for 60 minutes. They basically tried nothing.
     
  21. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,784
    I'd have to check. Those are still two-back personnel groupings, even if they're not two-back formations. (They can also run two-back formations with Patterson or something that aren't two-back personnel groupings).

    They only ran two-running back sets on 5% of plays last year.

    At this point, anything's worth trying, but I'm skeptical about this set as a regular thing. Teams are just going to treat White as a receiver because he doesn't really add a running threat unless they're going to do option-type stuff. Defenses already flood the box and dare the Pats to beat them outside and putting two guys in the backfield is just going to add to that congestion. They need to find a way to expand the area of attack because right now teams only have to defend such a small area.
     

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