Papi vs. Brady

[dhappy42]

Ortiz is, or sadly, was, the heart and soul of the Boston Red Sox for the past 12 years. Like Williams and Yaz, Ortiz defines a Red Sox era, except during the Big Papi era, the team won three World Series. David Ortiz, his smile and his spirit and spectacular clutch HRs are the Red Sox 2004-2016. You can't imagine the Red Sox without him.

Brady may be the better athlete, the GOAT NFL QB, but it is Bill Belichick who is the heart, soul and brains of the Patriots. Would the Patriots have had the same dominance with Bledsoe, Hoyer, Cassell and Garappolo at QB? Probably not, but the the team's personality and success during the Brady years is as much or more attributable Belichick as Brady.

Besides, as someone else sort of said: Baseball is life. Football's just a fall sport.

 

[JimBoSox9]

Ortiz is, or sadly, was, the heart and soul of the Boston Red Sox for the past 12 years. Like Williams and Yaz, Ortiz defines a Red Sox era, except during the Big Papi era, the team won three World Series. David Ortiz, his smile and his spirit and spectacular clutch HRs are the Red Sox 2004-2016. You can't imagine the Red Sox without him.

Brady may be the better athlete, the GOAT NFL QB, but it is Bill Belichick who is the heart, soul and brains of the Patriots. Would the Patriots have had the same dominance with Bledsoe, Hoyer, Cassell and Garappolo at QB? Probably not, but the the team's personality and success during the Brady years is as much or more attributable Belichick as Brady.

Besides, as someone else sort of said: Baseball is life. Football's just a fall sport.

Wait...your argument is that Ortiz, as a baseball DH, deserves credit for a larger percentage of his team's success then Brady, a football QB? Got it.

 

[BigSoxFan]

This argument has already been settled. Brady beat Ortiz 66% to 34% in ESPN's "Who's Now" competition...

 

[Bergs]

I don't think there is a wrong answer here because there so many deeply personal reasons to feel the way you do. Personally, Brady will be the bigger loss. The odds are that another Ortiz will come our way long before we see another Brady.

Not arguing, just using your post as a jumping off point. I think "another Ortiz" or "another Brady" is impossible. Three World Series wins and 4 Super Bowl wins (so far) for 2 franchises that NEVER won before. Those 2 guys own a place in a fan's life experience every bit as (if not more) compelling than their individual greatness. They have both contributed greatly to a virtual brain rewiring of the New England sports fan base. That's why the term "mourn" was so relevant in the original question, I think. We're saying goodbye to the human manifestation of a particular kind of joy that is likely never to be felt again.

 

[RIFan]

I 100% agree that they have helped rewire Boston fans. The rewiring has definitely diminished the former mindset of the good old days and the nostalgia for players that came before. The recency bias and give me a championship or you suck mentality definitely changes how the average fan thinks. If either team goes into a decade funk of mediocrity or worse the player that leads them out will be lionized and hailed as our sports savior. It's the nature of the beast now. We'll be eyerolling our grandkids 20 years from now when they tell us Johnny Stardust is the greatest clutch hitter ever and the new super advanced stats prove it. It won't just be the newbie fans, current fans will move on to the shiny new object far quicker than we imagine.

 

[Bergs]

I 100% agree that they have helped rewire Boston fans. The rewiring has definitely diminished the former mindset of the good old days and the nostalgia for players that came before. The recency bias and give me a championship or you suck mentality definitely changes how the average fan thinks. If either team goes into a decade funk of mediocrity or worse the player that leads them out will be lionized and hailed as our sports savior. It's the nature of the beast now. We'll be eyerolling our grandkids 20 years from now when they tell us Johnny Stardust is the greatest clutch hitter ever and the new super advanced stats prove it. It won't just be the newbie fans, current fans will move on to the shiny new object far quicker than we imagine.

So. Glass half empty, then?

 

[opes]

Football is fun, baseball is important. Ortiz and it's not even close.

I thought the same thing. +1 like

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Wait...your argument is that Ortiz, as a baseball DH, deserves credit for a larger percentage of his team's success then Brady, a football QB? Got it.

I love Ortiz as much as anyone, but 100% agree. In the most important game of the year Ortiz was involved in 4 of the 71 plays in the game last night. (if you want to add a few when he was on base and replacement level / sub replacement level base runner feel free) The most crucial inning of the game when he got on base, he was pulled for a pinch runner. For his career this is pretty much average, outside of when he was forced into the field to play defense.

He made some of the greatest clutch plays and has a plaque to prove it. He extended series and even carried the Sox, as much as a DH can, through the playoffs a number of times, but comparing his role to a HOF QB? Please. I love the guy. I have nothing bad to say about him and don't want to come off negative but saying he's had more influence over the last 15 years as Brady is crazy.

As to the baseball is a way of life, football is just a sport, we'll see. There's many predicting the demise of both sports and a couple years ago it was baseball will be dead or a 4th/5th sport, now it's trendy to say the NFL will die off. (Not just the players due to CTE and other effects). I don't think either will go away but saying MLB is a way of life, especially in Boston which was an ultimate baseball town and now a more football town is interesting.

 

[bankshot1]

Obviously both were integral players in ending their respective franchises extended period of frustration and pain, by winning multiples championships, but personally I felt more connected with the Papi. His authenticity, outsized personality, and ability to bond with others is a gift. There are few modern athletes with his charisma, or as George Frazier would say, duende.

Both are special, (Brady's the fucking GOAT) but I love Ortiz.

Besides Brady will never retire.

 

[Sampo Gida]

The thing that makes it hard with Papi is he retired after arguably one of his best years, at least in terms of hitting. Not sure if Brady will do the same.

Looking back at some major retirements in my lifetime, knowing that it was the final game of the players career. There really was only 1 for me (not much of a basketball fan) . Yaz. Yaz was tough since I grew up with him, but you knew it was time. It wasn't the long drawn out affair it was with Papi, but his lap around the park was just as emotional. That game also came against the Indians and we lost that as well. With Papi, you didn't know when his last game would be for certain, in fact, at the time we knew he was on the bench and getting knocked out of the post season was a bit of a distraction. With Yaz, there was no post season and his last game was meaningless. He was the only reason to watch that game.

Bobby Orr unfortunately departed as a FA and we never knew when his last game for the Bruins or in the Garden was going to be. I'd put him at the top of the list of players that were hardest to get over, and Tony C second, mainly because injuries took away so much from both of them, not to mention Bobby Orr was the man back in the day

I moved on pretty quick from Yaz though, many of his greatest moments were in the distant past so I guess that made it easier. With Brady, I guess it will be interesting if he goes out on top of his game like Papi, or Yaz. Fans will move on pretty quick with both as we latch on to the star of the moment. I guess Pedey will be the next big retirement in the Red Sox future.

 

[dhappy42]

Wait...your argument is that Ortiz, as a baseball DH, deserves credit for a larger percentage of his team's success then Brady, a football QB? Got it.

Nope. You don't got it. That's not my argument.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Some people can't seem to grasp that on the field contributions are not the end all be all of the discussion. It's not black and white. There isn't a right or wrong answer but matter of public opinion. The poster that said "football is fun, baseball is important" summed it up the best for me. I don't think you'll find anyone on here say that Papi played his position better than Brady... that's not what this is about. The Red Sox are the heart and soul of Boston and Ortiz was the heart and soul of that heart and soul for 13 years. The Pats, well lets face it... they're never going to be as culturally significant as the Sox in this town, not in my lifetime anyway. That's not a knock on Brady or the Pats, it's just the way of life in Boston, hell New England even. Ortiz has really embraced the city and the city embraced him back. Can we say the same about Brady? I'm not so sure...

 

[Kliq]

Saying baseball is important and football is fun is an incredibly individual opinion that means pretty much nothing to anyone outside of yourself. I would argue in the national scope of things the Patriots have usurped the Sox as the identity of the region.

 

[SumnerH]

Saying baseball is important and football is fun is an incredibly individual opinion that means pretty much nothing to anyone outside of yourself. I would argue in the national scope of things the Patriots have usurped the Sox as the identity of the region.

Eh. I get "go Sox!" all the time around DC when wearing Boston garb. Pats gear is basically ignored, aside from an occasional dfg comment.

That aside, the question is who are you going to be more torn up about. The answer to that is going to be incredibly individual by definition-that's the whole point .

 

[reggiecleveland]

This should really be Churchill or Papi.

Refusing to surrender the free world to Hitler vs. Skullfucking the Yankees into obscurity

It's a wash.

 

[Marciano490]

It's probably hard to decide without seeing how Brady's career plays out. What if he leaves on bad terms, or falls off a cliff and fights against turning over the reins? Both unlikely, but worth noting.

 

[Bergs]

This should really be Churchill or Papi.

Refusing to surrender the free world to Hitler vs. Skullfucking the Yankees into obscurity

It's a wash.

Lock all of the threads ever.

 

[kazuneko]

It's Tom Brady and it's not even close. I'm shocked that Ortiz is winning this poll and I think that's in large part because of his retirement being so fresh on everyone's mind.
FWIW, to me, David Ortiz it the second best Red Sox player of my lifetime, because I think Pedro Martinez is 1B (Ted Williams being 1A, of course) when it comes to greatest Red Sox player of all time.
Tom Brady, as someone else mentioned, is going to receive a lot of consideration as the greatest football player of all time, period.
I love Papi as much as anyone else here, but Tom Brady is truly on the Mount Rushmore of his sport, whereas David Ortiz is not.

I think you are entirely missing the point of this question. Obviously Brady is a better player than Ortiz - but that is not the question being asked. The question is "whose retirement will you mourn more" which is really asking which player is more beloved.
For me, Papi is a sports hero not only unique to Boston, but in a rare place in the history of sport. When Papi joined the team in 2003 the Sox were an iconic team defined by an 86 year old "curse". Being a Red Sox fan in those pre-2004 years felt damn near masochistic. Papi's heroics, starting with his legendary performance in the ALCS, changed the narrative - dramatically reshaping the team and regional sports culture. Obviously his statistics over the course of his career aren't even close to enough to carve himself a place in baseball's Mt. Rushmore. But what he means to this region and this franchise - his contributions to two other championships, his speech after the marathon bombings and his clutch play /"face of the game" larger than life personality throughout his 14 years - has made him a sports hero second to none.

 

[kazuneko]

If the poll was Pedro vs. Papi what would the result be? No disrespect to Ortiz but one could easily argue he wouldn't win a poll against another player he played with on the same team..

Ortiz without thinking twice. Pedro was a better player than Papi, but while Pedro was a fading star in 2004, Papi's heroism redefined the future of the franchise. I remember when Pedro retired. It felt a bit sad.
Yesterday was far, far worse...

 

[Devizier]

It's Tom Brady and it's not even close. I'm shocked that Ortiz is winning this poll and I think that's in large part because of his retirement being so fresh on everyone's mind.

Probably because this is a Red Sox board and most posters here care a lot more about baseball than they do about football.

 

[nothumb]

It's probably hard to decide without seeing how Brady's career plays out. What if he leaves on bad terms, or falls off a cliff and fights against turning over the reins? Both unlikely, but worth noting.

Yep. After 6 good quarters of Jimmy G people here were already talking about trading Brady for picks. Football is so transitory, even in relation to other sports in the free agent era, and one of the hallmarks of the BB era is a lack of sentimentality when it comes to veteran players.

People will remember Brady as the GOAT, and rightly so. But for me, losing him will cast less of a shadow than losing Papi, even if the Pats struggle. People have mentioned the more day-by-day presence of baseball players in our lives, and that's part of it. There's also just more of a familiarity. He's a whole person. Brady for all we know gets unplugged and put in a closet when he's not at work. (OK that's an exaggeration, but you get it).

That he's an insane workaholic and a boring public persona in a league that demands it of him is not an indictment of Brady, but it does influence how we relate to him, or don't.

Also, frankly, from what little we know of him Brady does not seem like my kind of guy, culturally or politically. He seems like kind of a milquetoasty celebrity asshole with no awareness of what people go through day to day. That doesn't affect my undying love for him as a player, but it will probably make me less sentimental about him when he can no longer hack it. Whoever said you can't imagine Brady having a "this is our fucking city" moment hit the nail on the head.

 

[Leather]

Yep. After 6 good quarters of Jimmy G people here were already talking about trading Brady for picks. .

David Ortiz was booed by Red Sox fans in 2010. Fans were also upset with him for frequently grumbling about his contract status. There were a fair number of people who were not too thrilled with his 2015 contract extension.

You can't compare how David Ortiz is perceived now, when we know he's gone and it's all rosy afterglow, to how Brady is perceived now, when his future is still a blank page. It's like comparing the merits of a living friend to one who just died. When Brady says he's hanging it up, whenever that might be, the level of fan emoting will be equal to or greater than what Ortiz has experienced.

 

[scotian1]

I believe there is one difference between the two that was illustrated today in Brady's press conference and that is the willingness to speak out on matters outside of football. I believe that Ortiz would have condemned Trump's remarks like James did while Brady just passed. I don't think it would have been too much to condemn the remarks as unacceptable. Having daughters, I find it rather unsettling that he wouldn't condemn such remarks.
http://nesn.com/2016/10/lebron-james-sounds-off-on-donalds-trumps-locker-room-talk-comment/

 

[pappymojo]

For me, Brady represents a decade and a half (and counting) of sports euphoria in Boston. His career covers not just the Patriots championships (2002, 2004, 2005, 2015) but includes the Red Sox championships (2004, 2007, 2013) as well as championships for both the Bruins (2011) and the Celtics (2008). I'm not giving Brady credit for this, but I am a fan of all local sports, and Brady was the first to bring it home. The Patriots victory in Super Bowl XXXVI was when the door opened. Let's see when it closes.

 

[Captaincoop]

I was torn up when Larry Bird retired, because he was too young, was robbed of chunk of his career by injury, and never had the chance to gracefully hand the baton to Lenny Bias, as would have happened in an alternate timeline.

There will be no mourning either of Brady or Ortiz in my book. Even if Brady retired tomorrow, they both accomplished everything imaginable and basically made my dreams as a fan come true in their respective sport, and every time I think back to either of their careers, I will have a massive smile on my face.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I believe there is one difference between the two that was illustrated today in Brady's press conference and that is the willingness to speak out on matters outside of football. I believe that Ortiz would have condemned Trump's remarks like James did while Brady just passed. I don't think it would have been too much to condemn the remarks as unacceptable. Having daughters, I find it rather unsettling that he wouldn't condemn such remarks.
http://nesn.com/2016/10/lebron-james-sounds-off-on-donalds-trumps-locker-room-talk-comment/

That's another part of it. Ortiz is a fun person to follow. Brady is a soulless corporate bimbo.

 

[Captaincoop]

That's another part of it. Ortiz is a fun person to follow. Brady is a soulless corporate bimbo.

Brady is relentless and fun on social media, and is an all-around high character guy. Ortiz ambushed the President of the United States with a corporate-sponsored selfie during a White House meeting, turned on the fans and media when he was struggling a few years back, and burst into a manager's press conference to complain about his stats.

Nobody's perfect, and most of us loved rooting for both of them despite any blemishes they might have. You may be letting some personal or political biases seep in.

 

[E5 Yaz]

That's another part of it. Ortiz is a fun person to follow. Brady is a soulless corporate bimbo.

If you're going to insult him, do it properly. He's a himbo

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Brady is relentless and fun on social media, and is an all-around high character guy. Ortiz ambushed the President of the United States with a corporate-sponsored selfie during a White House meeting, turned on the fans and media when he was struggling a few years back, and burst into a manager's press conference to complain about his stats.

Nobody's perfect, and most of us loved rooting for both of them despite any blemishes they might have. You may be letting some personal or political biases seep in.

These are all fair points. It would be impossible to make a case that Brady is anything close to a bad guy--either of them. My personal bias is that football is stupid, so you're correct there. My political bias is that he's a spineless douche for grinning and deflecting regarding his buddy Trump, I'll own that, though I've never cared what a player's politics are before Trump, so make of that what you will.

Ortiz has a very "human" persona. Brady is manicured and corporate. They've both been in the public eye for nearly 15 years now, so obviously not everything they respectively do lives up to that persona. But I'm very comfortable with summing it up that way. I'm not saying Brady is a *bad* guy. He's like a robot of perfection. Ortiz is just much more relatable, for reasons I'd describe as obvious.

If you're going to insult him, do it properly. He's a himbo

I forgot about "himbo," that does have a more accurate ring to it.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

I love Brady, but I definitely see where JtB is coming from. It's why I'll miss Ortiz more. Just because Brady is really, really good at crafting a public persona doesn't mean he can't be funny... he's often very funny. But you absolutely know there's a wall between him and you (us). Ortiz strikes me as being more in the moment and unguarded. Not that it makes him a better person, but it makes him easier to connect with (and subsequently miss more once he's gone).

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

I mean, there's no way Brady ever says, "This is our fuckin' city," let alone mean it.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I love Brady, but I definitely see where JtB is coming from. It's why I'll miss Ortiz more. Just because Brady is really, really good at crafting a public persona doesn't mean he can't funny... he's often very funny. But you absolutely know there's a wall between him and you (us). Ortiz strikes me as being more in the moment and unguarded. Not that it makes him a better person, but it makes him easier to connect with (and subsequently miss once he's gone).

Well said. And just to clarify, for all--I'm just trying to be a shit re: Brady. I don't follow football but I 100% get it. He's amazing.

Just, as far as breaking a tough tie like this--that's the kinda thing I think is relevant. You feel like you know Papi, where as Brady is this Golden God.

 

[pappymojo]

I don't think that Brady actually endorses Trump. I think Brady doesn't comment on political issues because he sees himself as a football player. I don't think Brady considers himself important enough or smart enough to use his celebrity platform to voice his political opinion. In a world where seemingly everyone is aiming for overexposure, I kind of like that Brady keeps a low profile (relatively speaking).

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Eh. I get "go Sox!" all the time around DC when wearing Boston garb. Pats gear is basically ignored, aside from an occasional dfg comment.

That aside, the question is who are you going to be more torn up about. The answer to that is going to be incredibly individual by definition-that's the whole point .

That's interesting, as I've lived in Chicago, Baltimore, DC, and now Richmond,VA, and get way more comments on my Patriots gear than I do on my Sox cap.

DC is kind of a wasteland - but Chicago and Baltimore were definitely more tied in to football than baseball.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

That's interesting, as I've lived in Chicago, Baltimore, DC, and now Richmond,VA, and get way more comments on my Patriots gear than I do on my Sox cap.

DC is kind of a wasteland - but Chicago and Baltimore were definitely more tied in to football than baseball.

You lived in DC and consider it a football wasteland? How much did you pay for rent in your paper bag?

 

[lexrageorge]

Brady certainly does not have an obligation to answer political questions or openly advocate specific political positions or endorse specific candidates. He's decided that he's better off not doing so. I see no reason to hold that against him.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

You lived in DC and consider it a football wasteland? How much did you pay for rent in your paper bag?

I think DC is a sports wasteland.

Yes, there is a football team, but it's not nearly as much of a football town, as say, Baltimore, where you'll get stabbed for wearing a Steelers jersey.

DC seemed very dispassionate about sports to me.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I believe there is one difference between the two that was illustrated today in Brady's press conference and that is the willingness to speak out on matters outside of football. I believe that Ortiz would have condemned Trump's remarks like James did while Brady just passed. I don't think it would have been too much to condemn the remarks as unacceptable. Having daughters, I find it rather unsettling that he wouldn't condemn such remarks.
http://nesn.com/2016/10/lebron-james-sounds-off-on-donalds-trumps-locker-room-talk-comment/

I'm not aware of any political commentary that Ortiz has contributed over his career, but maybe I'm missing something. And I'm not sure if you've followed Brady or the Pats in general over the years in any kind of close manner, but expecting political commentary from them in a press conference is kind of the definition of unrealistic expectations. They don't do it. If you find that unsettling because you have daughters - and honestly think Brady doesn't share the same sentiment of distaste for it, him having a daughter as well - then I honestly don't know what to tell you other than it's a pretty precarious hill to die on in this battle.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I think DC is a sports wasteland.

Yes, there is a football team, but it's not nearly as much of a football town, as say, Baltimore, where you'll get stabbed for wearing a Steelers jersey.

DC seemed very dispassionate about sports to me.

All it is is a football town. The city is transitory by nature, so the other sports are only popular when they are good, but if you didn't experience the love for the Redskins - even during their extended period of suck - while there then, yes, you had your head in the sand. It's the only thing the city is passionate about in the sporting venue.

Edit: and you're coming at me with Baltimore? Come the fuck on.

 

[Max Power]

I'm not aware of any political commentary that Ortiz has contributed over his career, but maybe I'm missing something. And I'm not sure if you've followed Brady or the Pats in general over the years in any kind of close manner, but expecting political commentary from them in a press conference is kind of the definition of unrealistic expectations. They don't do it. If you find that unsettling because you have daughters - and honestly think Brady doesn't share the same sentiment of distaste for it, him having a daughter as well - then I honestly don't know what to tell you other than it's a pretty precarious bill to die on in this battle.

Ortiz made his feelings on Trump very clear recently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/09/06/david-ortiz-says-donald-trumps-remarks-on-mexico-didnt-sit-well-with-me/

“When you speak like that about us, it’s a slap in the face,” Ortiz said of Latinos in general. “I walk around sometimes, and I see Mexican people trying to earn a living in an honest way. And to hear somebody make those kinds of comments, it hits you. I think as Latin people we deserve better. Things have gotten much better in that regard. … As Latin people we deserve respect, no matter where you’re from. And especially our Mexican brothers, who come here willing to do all the dirty work.

Brady had a Trump hat in his locker, which counts as political commentary for me. I don't give a shit about him now and won't care a bit when he retires. But that has as much to do with the fact that I don't care about football as it does with his Ugg billboards.

 

[uk_sox_fan]

I grew up in Boston and cut my teeth on the Celtics, Bruins, Pats and Sox but left in the late 80's for college and have never managed to return except for visits. Boston sports has become part of my core, my nostalgia and my anchor as I've moved around the world. And as much as I pull for the first 3, the Sox will always be the epicentre of that core - Boston has been a baseball town for well over 100 years despite 17 Celtics championships (and the only ones I was old enough to experience growing up), despite the miraculous transformation of the Patriots from the Patsies to the only dynasty of the free agent / salary cap era and despite the deep love of hockey that runs through the region that no one outside of Canada and Minnesota will ever understand (in North America at least - my Russian, Finnish and Swedish friends would argue that last point with a passion). The Red Sox are Boston - the heart and soul and every kid in the region's first love. You never forget your first love and for me it was the 77 and 78 teams of Lynn, Rice, Fisk, Dewey, Eck, Remy, Burleson, Scott, Stanley and Hobson. Bucky Dent was my first heartbreak which was finally going to be made right by Clemens, Hurst and Hendu... until it wasn't. In the mid-90's I was half-scared that they'd win it when I was unable to watch while deployed on a submarine under the Pacific - but that proved to be as unfounded a fear as any - Mo and Roger weren't enough to mount a serious threat.

The emergence of Nomar and arrival of Pedro changed things however and that Cleveland Series in 99 rekindled the dream that had flickered out 13 years before - but Jeter would get the calls in the ALDS and the penance of being a Sox fan, a Bostonian, continued.

I watched the Tuck Game from a off-season resort in Georgia and Super Bowl XXXVI from a random bar in the Bahamas and neither seemed real to me. I was thrilled to death of course but as soon as the game ended my thoughts went to Spring Training and whether Lowe could make it as a starter. Those Pats were a wonder but what Pedro had been doing those past 2 years was far more important. Signing Johnny Damon just before Christmas was a much bigger headline than the Pats clinching a playoff berth.

The indignity of the 2003 ALCS (Grady Little was the last Sox manager I hated - BV was amused contempt but Little and MacNamara were hatred) followed by the off-season loss of A-Rod when it seemed like we were getting the final piece we needed (Pedro and Schilling starting with Manny, Nomar, A-Rod and that new 1B/DH lefty was going to be unbeatable) was another gut shot.

But Papi took us away from that all. When it looked like yet another wasted season and the indignity of a MFY sweep he turned things around. From that point on it was Papi's team and the success he brought was unprecedented. He transformed the culture of the team that defined the culture of a community and did so in a way that made you feel like a kid again. Just think - he was called by Henry 'the greatest clutch hitter in Red Sox history' in 2005 - before winning a 2nd Championship in 07 and before taking the team and city on his back in 13. For the past 13 years he has been the heart and soul of the team that is the cultural centre of Boston. Brady is a phenomenal talent but Papi is something greater.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Ortiz made his feelings on Trump very clear recently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/09/06/david-ortiz-says-donald-trumps-remarks-on-mexico-didnt-sit-well-with-me/



Brady had a Trump hat in his locker, which counts as political commentary for me. I don't give a shit about him now and won't care a bit when he retires. But that has as much to do with the fact that I don't care about football as it does with his Ugg billboards.

Noted on Papi's comments, had not seen those and good for him.

A hat in a locker I don't consider a political statement, but ymmv. When he starts wearing it to, you know, make a statement, call me and I'll factor that into the equation. Either way, if people are looking to their sports heroes for political guidance they probably are misguided.

And frankly if you don't give a shit about Brady or football I'm not sure why you are bothering to chime in since it's not a debate for you and that's kinda what the thread is about. It's like KFP weighing in on tampon vs maxi pad.

 

[rodderick]

Why are some people just discounting the Belichick factor when assessing Brady's public persona? You think him coming out with a statement repudiating or defending Trump's comments would make the boss happy? The Pats have a "shut the fuck up and do your job" kind of culture that isn't exactly conducive for players to show their personalities. I'm not saying Brady would be Ochocinco if not for Bill's rigid policies, but I do think it plays a factor on us not having much of a clue of who he is privately. And especially these days with a supermodel wife and kids, I'm sure he appreciates that.

No question Ortiz wins on that departament, but I'm not sure Brady's "himbo with nothing to say" persona is actually him or a carefully constructed image that was at least in part imposed on him as he began his career.

 

[nothumb]

For a guy as image conscious as Brady, he absolutely knows what it means to put that hat in his locker. Now whether he has any real explicit political affinity for Trump or if it's just a celebrity buddy kind of thing is unknowable, but I absolutely hold it against him either way.

There was a story on the worldwide leader recently about the racial divide in NFL politics. In an informal poll, 21 of 21 white players reported supporting Trump. There is a really deep, conservative, flag-humping tradition among white QBs in particular even as their peers, who earn less and have less profile, could really use their support. So it is not a stretch at all to read something into Brady's de facto endorsement of Trump and his refusal to walk it back.

 

[rodderick]

For a guy as image conscious as Brady, he absolutely knows what it means to put that hat in his locker. Now whether he has any real explicit political affinity for Trump or if it's just a celebrity buddy kind of thing is unknowable, but I absolutely hold it against him either way.

There was a story on the worldwide leader recently about the racial divide in NFL politics. In an informal poll, 21 of 21 white players reported supporting Trump. There is a really deep, conservative, flag-humping tradition among white QBs in particular even as their peers, who earn less and have less profile, could really use their support. So it is not a stretch at all to read something into Brady's de facto endorsement of Trump and his refusal to walk it back.

From everything Tom has said regarding this matter I take it as he's voting for Trump because he's friendly with him and enjoys his company at times. Don't really see him as a policy inclined flag waving type.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

The hat in the locker was over a year ago and well before anyone thought there was a realistic chance Drumpf would be the candidate on the ticket and well before he went completely batshit insane. If someone has a pic of it still in there, please provide it.

 

[scotian1]

Well being friends with Trump unfortunately for me is a game changer in my opinion of him outside of football. It is like Schilling outside of baseball. That is just my feelings about it. Love him as a football player but that is it.

 

[Marbleheader]

Brady seems like he is still that pudgy, awkward 12 year old kid on the inside that is trying way too hard to be perfect. Ortiz was born a demigod and through trials and badassdom earned his rightful place atop Olympus.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Well being friends with Trump unfortunately for me is a game changer in my opinion of him outside of football. It is like Schilling outside of baseball. That is just my feelings about it. Love him as a football player but that is it.

So just to be clear, you are only friends with people you agree 100% with on political and social issues?

 

[JohntheBaptist]

From everything Tom has said regarding this matter I take it as he's voting for Trump because he's friendly with him and enjoys his company at times. Don't really see him as a policy inclined flag waving type.

Yeah, exactly. Which makes him a twat.

Swap Trump's name out for George W Bush and I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Let's not pretend we're talking about "politics" or a "normal human being" is all I'm saying.

It's that exact manicured, robot quality that keeps him from stating the obvious when it comes to a guy he's played golf with a few times. Doesn't wanna sully the brand. That or he's on board.

If Bill Belichick had a problem with someone on the team saying "yeah, fuck that guy" then add him to the list of people who currently take football just a little too seriously.