NBA trade season
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
When you can add a guy who immediately becomes your worst three point shooter, you simply have to make the move.
I can't imagine whitesoxdave is a credible source. Adding in Niko is like adding Water Works to a Monopoly trade...he doesn't add any value.
Same, but there was mention the pick could be protected. If it's Brown + Nets pick (top 3 protection) for Butler? Nets pick rolls over to next year if top 3.
I don't know how I'd feel about that deal.
I'd probably do that one but would prefer George for a Jaylen/Nets pick combo. All depends on how Ainge views the 2017 draft class vs. next year, assuming Chicago would be ok with 2017 protection.
I feel bad for Buddy. I loved him at Oklahoma in the NCAA Tourney and his story is great. Everyone is going to criticize him for being the key to the Cousins deal only because SAC management are a bunch of bumbling fools. It doesn't seem likely that he is ever going to make a All-Star game and Vivek reportedly saying things like he is going to be the next Steph Curry is just coating this kid in barbecue sauce and waving him in front of a bunch of rapid pit bulls (angry Kings fans) for when he ends up not being Curry. He is a 40 percent shooter from three if you discount his crappy first month and probably can be the next JJ Redick; which isn't a bad thing but he is never going to sniff those expectations.
I don't even know if protecting the pick like that is possible, where they would trade BK18 if BK17 falls in the protected zone. If possible, that's a scary potential value swing.
1. Lotto fucks us: trade is Jaylen + Isaac/Smith/Tatum + filler for Butler and a shot at Ayton/Bamba/etc next year
2. Lotto smiles upon us: trade is Jaylen + shot at Ayton/Bamba/etc + filler for Butler + Fultz/Ball/Jackson + whatever we can get for Bradley/Crowder/picks.
This strikes me as typical pre-deadline posturing that will amount to nothing but may set the stage for summer talks. It behooves the C's to wait until Chicago gets really desperate, to the point that they only have to trade either of BK17 or BK18 as the centerpiece while keeping Jaylen. Frankly that one top pick has been the going rate for a 2nd tier star player and should continue to be for Ainge when the player in question only gets you a little bit closer to where you really want to be.
Granted I don't see as much of the Western Conference as I should, but if you're the Celtics why do you trade away assets/picks to reach the finals, only to run into the Warriors once you get there?
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 17m17 minutes ago
Teams pursuing Brooklyn’s Bojan Bogdanovic suggest they’re ramping up on offers, process moving closer to Nets choosing best available deal.
Teams pursuing Brooklyn’s Bojan Bogdanovic suggest they’re ramping up on offers, process moving closer to Nets choosing best available deal.
I think most of us agree that nobody beats Golden State as currently constituted but a turn of an ankle or some other injury changes everything.
The other thing to point out is that draft picks are nice and all but this talk of being a contender "for the next 15 years" assumes the Cs drafts all work out (a dubious assumption that is addressed in another thread here). If you can get elite, realized talent for a pick plus rotation players, especially with a team that is a near contender like the Celtics, it makes sense to explore a deal.
That said, I will be surprised if the Celtics pull off a trade. The Bulls and Pacers still have strong incentives to keep their guys.
There has been some buzz locally here in Portland that the Blazers are listening on Damian Lillard per a sketchy report from Amico Hoops. I don't buy it because I haven't seen it substantiated by any of the major sites. I think the only way they move him is in a swap for another star that fits their roster better (e.g. Butler, George or Drummond).
I would wait until @WhiteSoxDave tweets about Bojan until you start taking this Woj guy serious.
To add value- Stein told Lowe "One executive told me Paul George is going to Boston this week..." That is at least something... If Paul George is on the table, and he isn't assuring the Cs that he is going to extend long term, he isn't worth more than the 18 nets pick. If he extends, then he is worth more than Butler in my opinion.
All this to me points toward Danny holding on, saving his money to try to sign Gordon Hayward this summer. Same as last year, but with different names, higher costs, and one year later on the calendar. Last year we were talking about Simmons or Ingram as the 2016 Nets Pick, now that is Jaylen Brown, the "assets" will turn into players it seems, and that is a reason we can't kill Danny if he uses what he has gathered to build for the future instead of when there is a super team out west and a top 5 player ever in the east.
Alex KennedyVerified account@AlexKennedyNBA 14s15 seconds ago
The Cavaliers, Wizards, Celtics, Rockets and Clippers are buyers. Keep an eye on them at the deadline and as veterans are bought out
The Cavaliers, Wizards, Celtics, Rockets and Clippers are buyers. Keep an eye on them at the deadline and as veterans are bought out
Marc SteinVerified account@ESPNSteinLine 31m31 minutes ago
The one move widely expected from the Lakers' Magic Johnson-led front office this week is trading Lou Williams. No need for LW when tanking
The one move widely expected from the Lakers' Magic Johnson-led front office this week is trading Lou Williams. No need for LW when tanking
A plan that is based around someone getting hurt is doomed to fail. Thompson and Green have been iron men, Curry's ankle stuff is long gone, and Durant shows no ill-effects from his foot issue (and has never really been hurt otherwise). They're as good a bet as any to be really strong for at least the next 3-4 seasons, which would be the exact window you're committing to by cashing in all the chips now*.
*If you acquire Butler, you have to move the rest asap.
*If you acquire Butler, you have to move the rest asap.
Except that just last year Curry got hurt, Draymond got suspended and the Cavs overcame a 3-1 series deficit to the beat the best regular season of all time in the NBA Finals. You don't build your roster hoping someone gets hurt, but you don't avoid making moves hoping the road to a championship gets easier in the future. You take every opportunity that presents itself to make your roster incrementally better.
I don't understand the desire to unload picks/assets while you would still be the underdog by a decent amount. You still have to beat the best player in the world and a super team in GS for a championship. What are the odds of that happening? Less than 5%?
Trading for Paul/Butler makes life better now as you should get more playoff games this year and a better series vs the Cavs, but it's still not a championship team. If you trust your drafting ability (And Danny does) why not develop 4 top six picks while winning. Not to mention 3 of these picks could be top 3. Cs are literally in a position no other team has ever been in from building a team stand point. They have good ownership, management, coach, and a competitive team. Why give that up?
Trading for Paul/Butler makes life better now as you should get more playoff games this year and a better series vs the Cavs, but it's still not a championship team. If you trust your drafting ability (And Danny does) why not develop 4 top six picks while winning. Not to mention 3 of these picks could be top 3. Cs are literally in a position no other team has ever been in from building a team stand point. They have good ownership, management, coach, and a competitive team. Why give that up?
I don't disagree with the sentiment, just the timing. It took a fluke suspension for a superteam with the GOAT to eke out a series win over a contender for GOAT team that added a historically good player. It's pure fantasy to look at this and think the Celtics have any kind of reasonable chance to win a title this year. You can wait for the summer and make incremental improvements that don't cost exponential prices.
Not that it will happen, but I am not sure how much an underdog a IT, Smart, Butler, George, Horford led team is to GS. That starting 5 matches up pretty damn well, IMO
Ric Bucher just said the Celtics were 1 of 4 teams that had meaningful discussions with the Kings about DMC.
Ric BucherVerified account@RicBucher Feb 19
Source w/reasons Pels got Boogie: Cs (too focussed on getting Butler), Orl (could've had him, balked) & Phx (Sac didn't want BKnight).
Orlando is basically Sacramento East. They would have made great trade partners.
What does "too focused on Butler" mean? That they didn't want to give up assets (or cap space) for Cousins that would eliminate their chance at Butler? This must mean that they think they have a very real change of trading for Butler.
The real fault with the "you should just wait to compete until GS gets old" strategy (beyond that they're pretty young) is that the Celtics window is really already on a clock.
They're losing 1 or more of Bradley/IT4/Smart in the next 3 years, Crowder's great contract is gone in 3 years, Horford will be nearing the end. Sure if you hit on both Brooklyn picks, Brown develops, and Zizic or Yabu is better than expected MAYBE you're a contender, but realistically it's unlikely they all hit or exceed expectations.
The Celtics can wait until the offseason for sure, they have a really good team and this is a strong draft, but Horford and IT are in their primes right now and are really really good players, if you waste those primes waiting 2-4 more years for GS to decline you're unlikely to be in a better position than other rising teams who already have their young stars to build around (PHI, MIL, NOH etc.).
Edit- to clear up. Whether it's now, the offseason, next deadline, or next offseason they have a lot of hard choices to make in the backcourt. The incentive to trade either now or THIS offseason is that rather than lose 1 of IT and Bradley for nothing when you let him walk, you get real value for him by using him in a trade.
They're losing 1 or more of Bradley/IT4/Smart in the next 3 years, Crowder's great contract is gone in 3 years, Horford will be nearing the end. Sure if you hit on both Brooklyn picks, Brown develops, and Zizic or Yabu is better than expected MAYBE you're a contender, but realistically it's unlikely they all hit or exceed expectations.
The Celtics can wait until the offseason for sure, they have a really good team and this is a strong draft, but Horford and IT are in their primes right now and are really really good players, if you waste those primes waiting 2-4 more years for GS to decline you're unlikely to be in a better position than other rising teams who already have their young stars to build around (PHI, MIL, NOH etc.).
Edit- to clear up. Whether it's now, the offseason, next deadline, or next offseason they have a lot of hard choices to make in the backcourt. The incentive to trade either now or THIS offseason is that rather than lose 1 of IT and Bradley for nothing when you let him walk, you get real value for him by using him in a trade.
Plus, it's not like everyone else remains static. Maybe Philly hits this year, Embiid and Simmons develop, and they're beastly in 3 years. Etc.
or...
Maybe Durant becomes a FA and reconsiders signing with us? More feasible with another stud here. Etc.
or...
Maybe Durant becomes a FA and reconsiders signing with us? More feasible with another stud here. Etc.
The Cavs overcame that deficit because they have, arguably, the greatest basketball player of all time on their roster.
The Celtics don't have anything resembling a Lebron James on their roster right now, not even close, and trading for Jimmy Butler would not change that IMO.
Yeah, I think it's fool's gold to wait for a harmonic convergence of the Celtics draft picks creating an embryonic dynasty, the current top teams fading and no other teams rising quicker and stronger than Boston. If the Cavs are the least bit vulnerable this year, then getting to The Finals should be the immediate goal. If that means going the extra mile in a trade, they should do it.
Of course, they're not going to make a trade, so this is all for naught ...
Of course, they're not going to make a trade, so this is all for naught ...
Ok, so you take the long approach and watch IT/Horford lose effectiveness right as the new young core is (hopefully) ready to take over and you're in the same exact position as you are now. And that's assuming lotto luck and making the right picks. At some point you have to play a hand and I'm perfectly fine cashing in some of the chips if the price for George/Butler is reasonable. Obviously, if the Bulls/Pacers get greedy, then you walk away and try again in the summer/next year, which is a luxury this team has and is why Ainge won't panic.
You are correct but as Cellar-Door points out, the Celtics are primed to compete now and their window with this current cast is closing soon. As much as people are salivating at a perpetually good team with lots of draft picks coming up, if the Celtics get a few busts (which, again, isn't unreasonable given how hard it is to draft properly) they could just as easily be a middling team two to three years from now.
We are really looking at a philosophical divide when evaluating potential trades. Either you come down on the side of believing the Celtics will draft well and the players will develop out in a reasonable time-frame. Or you believe that realized talent trumps prospective talent and that if you get a chance to improve incrementally for a reasonable price, you do it, regardless of whether you can contend with the best teams or not.
Without knowing the details, I love that move for Houston. And its so D'Antoni too. They have so much shooting and only one ball though.
Completely agree. I think that if you add Butler or PG you give this team a legit shot at the Finals. I'd hate to see the ping pong balls fall the wrong way and make these amazing assets essentially wasted.
See, I give the Celtics a legit shot at making the finals as presently constructed. Love will probably not be 100%. Lebron is playing too many minutes. If they rest Lebron, the Celtics could easily steal the #1 seed. It wouldn't take a lot of things to break the Celtics' way. At Bovada right now you can get the Celtics at +400 to win the ECF.
For the record my "long" approach is to wait 25 more games, sign Hayward and keep all the picks for trades/cheap upside talent as needed. Not advocating sitting around and twiddling thumbs while guys age out. Butler/George will still be there this summer.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 28m28 minutes ago
Washington has shown interest in Minnesota's Shabazz Muhammad, according to league sources, as the Wiz continue to search for bench upgrades
Washington has shown interest in Minnesota's Shabazz Muhammad, according to league sources, as the Wiz continue to search for bench upgrades
I kind of agree. Everyone with sources in Utah seems to think that he's not interested in leaving, they can also give him more money. Celtics only get discussed because they have Brad Stevens. Also the new CBA screwed it up some, made it harder to clear a full max slot for him.
Revisit Butler, talk to Indy, talk to Griffin. Right now we're at "almost certain ECF loss." Butler gets you down to "likely ECF loss." I'm not so eager to pay a near-unheard of price for a non-superduper star for that.