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Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DrewDawg, Feb 5, 2019.
All this provided AD signs multi year?
Yes. I don't see that happening here after this dragging out from February.
He won't sign. They're going to use him to get Kyrie to commit long-term (which has its own value), and then trust that he'll like winning.
If they can get JB to take a Myles Turner-like extension this summer, that makes him a really good fit on an AD team. Getting experience as a lead 2nd unit guy also helps for his future role.
And 37% Marcus at $12M is nearly untouchable, if you're going to have a roster this expensive.
yea. Ky will have signed long term and AD will have to pull a KG. We also may start cheering for the Lakers to sign a guy like Butler to a max deal so they don't have any room and Rich Paul changes his tune.
I think it'll be draft rights to the player and not an actual contract.
If Markief Morris is bought out, I go after him with the MLE.
Then if one gets in foul trouble they can swap jerseys
I need this in my life.
hoops version of the Hanson Brothers
That and if we are trading Markieff to NO, one would think Marcus may be more willing to do a S&T to NO.
Read that too quickly and was worried that Janos was traded. That would have been a huge loss.
Smart is literally not needed for salary matching purposes. Tatum, MLE player (the 2020 salary would be around $9 million), Williams, and Yabusele get you basically all the way there. And the Pelicans would probably have more use for Rozier than a roleplayer (but really it doesn’t even need to go there since Rozier can be signed & traded to a third team for draft picks to throw in the pot and his salary slot still get you well past the finish line).
Add in Ojeleye and it is definitely enough. You don’t need to actually match, just get to 80% of the incoming salary.
Or, you know, the McCourtys.
We only have the taxpayer MLE of 5.5 mil, so it would be way less than 9 mil even after the raise
The NBA needs to simplify their salary rules. Dear God. Taxpayer MLE, Rose Rule, Bird Rights, Terry Duerod Exemption. It's frigging ridiculous.
Yes, approximately $3 million short, so Smart’s $12 million is still not needed.
Suns are waiving Wayne Ellington today.
Our 10-year-long quest to acquire the guy who knocked out the 3rd-best Garnett-Pierce team can now finally be completed!
Need to get close to 22M going out, so it's definitely not enough adding Semi.
That would be diabolical. "We'll send you Marcus Morris on a sign and trade as part of the AD deal ..." Then you actually have Markieff go to New Orleans and keep Marcus under Markieff's name.
It's a huge risk. What if AD and Kyrie decide they love playing together but would prefer to play together elsewhere? Then the Celtics are left without AD, without Kyrie, without Tatum, and without those two huge draft picks. Then they're dead.
This is a very exciting prospect (trading for AD) but it comes with MAJOR risk for the Celtics. It's a once-in-a-lifetime, all-in kind of move.
I can't imagine a scenario where the Celtics trade for AD before Kyrie agrees to sign here.
That was always the risk. I’d rather take the shot.
That's when they sign Durant
I was replying to the poster who said that the trade for AD would be leverage to keep Kyrie, so he has the exact opposite view from you. Obviously a trade for AD is less risky if they already have Kyrie signed long-term.
Kryie and AD are interminably linked. The Celtics aren't trading Tatum for Davis without Kyrie staying long-term, and Kyrie might not return unless they can get AD.
The Celtics have a very realistic chance of putting 2 HOF talents together right in their primes. I don’t know how you pass that up. I love Tatum. He is going to have a great career but he’ll never be AD. The risk is absolutely real but I trust Danny, Brad, and Kyrie to convince AD to stay.
Assuming there isn’t any weird stuff with Kyrie going on, I’m 100% all in on a Tatum+ for AD trade.
They can't consummate an AD trade until Kyrie's contract is up, so it's very doable to make them conditional on each other. You can also secure a verbal commitment from Kyrie to re-sign immediately, contingent on trading for AD.
You line all this up at the time of the draft, and set it all in motion as soon as the calendar turns to July 1. This is all super-standard in NBA team building.
Right. So Kyrie is gonna walk, the Celtics say we've got a trade worked out for AD, so Kyrie signs then they trade for AD.
That's not an exact opposite view, it's the same view.
They're not trading for AD on July 3rd to have Kyrie walk away on July 6th.
The whole point to trading for AD is to pair with Kyrie.
Correct, and it would almost certainly all go down on July 1st, nearly simultaneously.
Right. If Danny trades for AD, it remains to be seen what assurances the Celtics may or may not have from him, but I’m almost certain Kyrie would be on the same page. It’s not only important that we maintain Kyrie, but also that he’s part of the AD recruitment process. Danny won’t tease for AD with both him and no Kyrie up in the air.
How would this happen? Kyrie is signing a new long term deal this summer, Davis next summer. How would the “decide they love playing together” then leave? Kyrie would already be signed long-term by the time AD is acquired.
As has been mentioned several times- the trade for AD and signing of Kyrie are likely taking place simultaneously if at all. The only real risk is AD being traded here then deciding to leave after a year (which is a bluff I think is worth calling) and having an upset Kyrie.
Philly's trade of Fultz for Simmons+ is very shrewd. Simmons was decent for the Spurs a few seasons ago.
I also love the idea floated above of bringing in Kieff and weaponizing the Morrisi. But there simply aren't enough minutes or touches for another Morria.
Alas, the Cs will likely bring in Gortat, Enes Cancer or maybe bring back Moose if he is bought out.
Markieff Morris hasn't played in over a month due to his neck injury and is now seeking second opinions. It's questionable whether he plays again this season.
Yeah I thought the whole idea was just funny.
Just saw these surprisingly decent comments from Damian Lillard. Apologies if they were posted already (these are apparently a few weeks old now).
Amen. What a total mess.
I asked the other day which is the most valuable chip, Tatum or Zion. Andrew Sharp of si.com has an interesting take:
"The Knicks threat is real, and not just for Kyrie Irving. If New York wins the lottery in June, Zion Williamson is more valuable than anything the Celtics can offer New Orleans. Zion can sell tickets for a team that has always struggled to maintain interest in its market, he has upside that's at least as high Tatum, and he's under team control on a rookie deal for two more seasons than Tatum would be. Zion ends the AD sweepstakes immediately. Beyond Zion, though, think about what happens if New York lands at No. 2 or 3. That pick, plus two Mavs firsts, plus Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith Jr.... That offer is significantly more lucrative than anything the Lakers were offering this week, and considering the success of Sacramento (the Celtics have their top-1 protected pick this season) the Knicks godfather offer might beat any Boston offer, too. Meanwhile, Anthony Davis has made it clear that he'd like to be in New York. And if Davis lands in New York, Boston's chances of keeping Kyrie Irving are instantly cut in half. The title team that Ainge has spent years trying to build could very well come together in New York City instead of Boston."
The Knicks pick this year is an obvious asset, perhaps on par or surpassing Tatum. But those Mavs picks aren't until 2021 and 2023, and the 2023 one is top 10 protected. The Memphis and Sacto picks crush them and they beat Knox/Smith as well. Then you have Brown, Time Lord, and Rozier...the Celtics still have the potential to trump anything. Plus, if the Knicks think they can lure two FA on their own, wouldn't they just keep Zion?
Zion to NY would make it interesting but he is completely forgetting about the Memphis pick. A package of 2019 2 or 3, Knox, DSJ, and some mediocre Mavs picks can be topped by Ainge. It’s also unclear if NY would even be willing to offer all that for a guy who could leave in a year. They’d face the same risk as Boston. There’s also the question about whether or not the Knicks would want to give up Zion in an AD trade. You only do that if you’re comfortable about other guys like Kyrie or Durant coming on board.
Given that there is only a 14% chance of Zion to NY, I’m not too worried.
I don’t understand why NY wouldn’t keep Zion either, unless they don’t think they can get KD or they only think Kyrie would go to NY to play with AD. I think most would take AD + Kyrie over KD + Kyrie, but if you can get KD and Kyrie in FA, then it’s really more like KD + Kyrie + Zion + Knox or AD + Kyrie. There’s also tons of other permutations in the event Kyrie stays in Boston (e.g. KD + Kemba) that could also be preferable to trading Zion/Knox for AD.
Didn't they get Ewing with a 14% chance, with the "frozen" envelope?
NYK would give up Zion only if they were fairly certain that KI would sign with them if they could get AD. If they keep Zion and they don't get AD, presumably KI resigns in BOS so that is one piece off the board.
Dueling NBA guys! Because Woj says the NO doesn't want a guy that can just sell tickets, they want a guy with All-NBA potential, and I'm sorry, until we see Zion in the NBA, we really don't know what he is. One NBA GM said his upside is Rodney Rogers. Who was good, but not an All-NBA guy.
If Davis doesn't commit to re-signing long term with Boston, I don't trade for him. It has to be Kyrie signing on July 1, then Davis agreeing to buy in to the Celtics long term. If Kyrie is linking to Davis, and AD truly wants to be a Laker only, Kyrie might be gone. The nightmare scenario is Kyrie signing with the Lakers and NO taking the Lakers' package. Second nightmare is both ending up on the Knicks, but at least that won't threaten the Celtics' position of having the most NBA titles.
This situation will put a cloud over the Celtics, Kyrie, and especially Tatum for the rest of this season, especially if the players feel that Kyrie is doing any orchestrating.
If that’s a recent quote (I couldn’t find it, only thing recent is a yahoo piece where the Hartford coach makes the comp while other GMs and coaches mention Barkley, Blake, LJ, ‘Nique, Kemp and Randle) then that GM should be should be fired. Unless it’s Danny, which would be funny.
Someone on this board made a Rodney Rogers comp last year, before we’d seen Zion play in the ACC. But now? I guess to the extent you can say “we don’t know what he is” in the NBA for any prospect, sure. But he’s in the conversation as the best overall college freshman since AD himself. Tatum’s the budding All-Star in hand, and he can shoot, so I can see preferring him from a team building aspect. But he’s going to sell lots of tickets and jerseys, and I’d bet a lot of money he’ll be better than Rodney Rogers.
Edit- here’s the piece I found where Rogers comp is made: https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports...scouts-break-duke-phenoms-game-234152148.html
The other coaches and GMs are much more bullish.
The Hartford coach also said passing is a weakness for Zion, which I haven’t seen at all. Given how he has looked distributing in a role in that offense that isn’t really designed for it, I think passing could become a strength for him.
Rodney was a big dude, but he didn't play with the ferocity of Zion