NBA Trade Deadline Game Thread
- Thread starter DJnVa
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I'm glad to see the Kings making moves. Pick is disappointing now. Barnes is an upgrade on paper, but we know how that can go. At least it leaves some space for wishcasting. Maybe the chemistry all goes to hell.
Yeah, and they're already interesting this year as it is...are they going for the tank all the way down to #6, to try and keep their pick this year?
Yeah, the problem is that he fills an exact need for them. Good for the Kings, they have a decent shot at the playoffs now if the Lakers implode, as seems possible.
This is why trading for picks 2+ years down the line is a fools errand. Give me a legit player with a non-overpaid contract any day. Too much tanking.
I really wish the NBA would step in and stop any protections on picks. It would clean some of this stuff up.
I really wish the NBA would step in and stop any protections on picks. It would clean some of this stuff up.
We've come a long way when people think team chemistry may become worse after trading away Zach Randolph.
What a great trade for Dallas - they get out from under Barnes player option which he was almost certainly going to exercise in exchange for Randolph. Meanwhile, Justin Jackson is an emerging three-and-D wing.
I can't understand why Sacramento does this. Barnes shooting has gone down, his defense is abysmal and he is a singularity when it comes to ball movement. This does nothing good for Sacramento imho.
I can't understand why Sacramento does this. Barnes shooting has gone down, his defense is abysmal and he is a singularity when it comes to ball movement. This does nothing good for Sacramento imho.
They weren't going to make the playoffs and this move sets them up to sign a max guy in the summer. I think they make this deal regardless of any protections. This was a really good move for them. At least Memphis should be joining them soon.
I think the Kings were going to make the playoffs anyway if the Lakers don't do anything. Barnes won't change anything for the Celtics.
Hard for them to tank all the way down. But tanking down to #8 or so may be possible giving them around a 26% chance of keeping the pick. Organically tanking without sitting Luka would be tough though since many other teams are in the tank queue.
Imagine Kawhi going to Dallas with Doncic and Porzingis? How much would that be a kick in the nuts to the Spurs?
I am interested to hear how people think Barnes is an upgrade. The guy is a ball stopper, thinks he is a better scorer than he is and plays no defense. Justin Jackson is young, cost controlled and has really started to make a leap. I think this is a monumentally bad move for the Kings.
And Zach Randolph is fine right now - he is actually pretty widely liked in the league as far as I can tell - but right now he is just "gettin them checks" as Jalen Rose used to say.
Justin Jackson is going to be 24 in March and I'm not sure what leap you are talking about. Barnes is at least a decent 3 point shooter. I think it's an improvement but they aren't catching the Jazz and they were going to catch the Clippers anyway.
Dallas is Luca + pure scrappiness (Powell, Kleber, Brunson, Finney-Smith). Carlisle will get them to play.
About to beat the Hornets tonight
Have you looked at Barnes' numbers? The guy would drive anyone who likes ball movement, efficient play and defense nuts. His 3p% is above his career norms and I would bet he reverts before, say, Marcus Smart does.
Jackson has played really well for them of late - his 3p% is over 37% for December and January and his defense has improved with his usage. I watch a bit too much Kings and Mavs games to be considered healthy and I can say I would rather a 24 year old Justin Jackson than Harrison Barnes and his way above trend 39% three point shooting, ball-hogging and subpar defense. Especially when you consider that he is cost controlled for two more seasons at $5mm top versus Barnes next year at ~$25mm.
And Barnes 3 point % is over 37% for his career. When you consider contracts, I agree with you. But this makes them a better team on the court.
Barnes is shooting 39% over his career avg of 37%. That is “way above trend?” It’s the difference of about 5 points a month. He’s no great shakes but this is a pretty significant upgrade over Jackson as he provides better ball handling and shot creation as well. I’m guessing his rebounding numbers will revert back to career norms without DeAndre in his front court as well.
+1 DeJesus
In a couple of years, people are going to look back and wonder how the hell the Mavs pulled all this off. ADD Luca (19) and Porzingas (23) over 9 months w/a roster full of bad contracts to end the 2018 season.
Starting next year Dallas will be in the playoffs for the next 5 seasons.
Wouldn't be shocked to see Dallas bring back Kleber, add Theis and invite the rest of Europa to Texas this offseason.
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The first thing everyone should notice is that despite shooting treys at a 39% clip his shooting efficiency is poor and his scoring efficiency below average. Combine all that with his chucking and abysmal defense and unloading him for a decent 3&D wing is a huge win for the Mavs.
Harrison Barnes last two seasons have had him shooting 35.1% and 35.7% from deep. His high career number stems from a good few seasons in Golden State when he was mainly a catch and shoot guy. He is the epitome of the guy who people don't watch much, glance at his surface numbers and don't see the bad trends below. His ball-handling and shot "creation" is abysmal. I am willing to bet that Dallas and their fans are thrilled to have him gone. Luka is now the main guy there but Dallas will maximize Jackson's skillset too.
Finally, given the cost delta between the two players, I would much rather Jackson who seems to get his role as an energy three and D guy and not the focal point of the offense - Barnes is basically an older, wing version of Rozier without the ability to create off the dribble.
This “delta” is actually a negative for a team looking to upgrade their roster via trades. I love that contract as it’s expiring next year, won’t prohibit them from making any moves in the interim, and gives the Kings an opportunity to engage in a larger deal. Even if you feel Jackson is the better player (kinda silly imo) he doesn’t provide Sacramento with this added value.
Your point about the expiring is good but it is a big ass contract. $25mm for any part of a Harrison Barnes season is rich as hell.
And to be clear, Jackson doesn't seem to be the better player but if his shooting improvement is real, he is much better fit in today's NBA. On a per-36 basis, Jackson averages around one more assist more than Barnes this season and is a marginally better rebounder and shot blocker. He is more efficient and a demonstrably better defender.
In short, you may love this for Sacramento for the expiring but that is about it. In the interim, I would argue they got worse which is good for the pick imho.
So your position is that "IF" Jackson's 3-pt shooting of 34.6% is real he'd be a better fit in todays game than Harrison and his career 37% at over a 1600+ shot sample size? Jackson also defends backup wings while Barnes is matched up against opponents highest scoring wings......you really have to take these metrics with the proper context.
This trade of expiring contracts miraculously gets the Wizards below the taxpayer line this season. Mission accomplished.
Jackson shot over 37% from three over the past two months and he has been playing crunch time minutes of late.
I think the problem is that I watch far too much Mavs and Kings games so I see this stuff rather than just glancing at the stats - and as you know, I dig into the numbers. I have proper context when I say that Jackson is the more efficient player and has some upside. Barnes is who he is and is overpaid by orders of magnitude for what he offers.
Yeah they're under the tax, but they traded Porter, Oubre. Morris and like five second round picks to do it. That's just a tremendous misuse of resources. They desperately need a new GM who better understands how to manipulate the CBA.
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C'mon man you're making stuff up now. Jackson has re-entered the game in the 4th quarter to close out blowouts. He hasn't been playing crunch time minutes...….he played 2 second half minutes versus the Spurs the other night and 5 second half minutes vs Philly the game prior with each being early 4th quarter blows for a starter.
Ted Leonsis has called the shots there forever. Grunfeld is simply his worker bee and yes man. What they need is an owner who recognizes that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing.
Kanter will get traded to Fenerbahçe. For thirty pieces of silver.
Hedo Turkoglu was seen washing his hands of it.
Making stuff up? WTF?
Look at his minutes played - they have gone up as the season goes on. Yes, Joerger has used different players against San Antonio and the 76ers but Jackson has been in at the end of close games during December and January too. Are two games really a sample size? Do we need to start pulling deep game data or are you telling me you watched a lot of Kings game over the past two months?
I want to be clear - Jackson isn't a star (did I offend you by denying SGA star status earlier? If so, apologies) but he IS an improving, cost-controlled, big three and D wing who does a lot of things many of us love. All things equal, I would prefer him to Harrison Barnes ISO-ball, windmill defense chuck-fest. You clearly don't so lets move on and save server space.
You said he's been closing out games lately.....I'm only pointing out that he hasn't except garbage time in blowouts and the one Phoenix game a month ago, likely due to matchups with Phoenix going super small.
You say here his minutes have gone up as the season progressed.....they haven't. He played 26.9 mpg in October, down to 16.1 in November, and been a consistent 22.0 in Dec and 21.8 in Jan prior to dropping to 9.0 in the two Feb games.
I watch a ton of Kings games which is what made me already dive into the data which I listed above and in the prior posts because I never recalled Jackson playing much in the second half at all except when matchups required an agile 4 and certainly not to close out many close games.
October? Really? The Kings played eight games that month and his stats are skewed by a few games where he got heavy run. I think you would agree that the first few weeks of the season are, de facto, an extension of the pre-season.
So using full months only, he has gone from 16.1 in November to around 22 minutes per game over the past few months - I would argue his minutes have, in fact, increased. And he has been used in non-blowouts too though I am not pulling individual game data.
Once again, I used the terms "emerging" and "making a leap" in discussing Jackson - not that he is some sort of star player. Simply put, I prefer him to Harrison Barnes given all of the variables.
More importantly, Dallas does too and strongly enough to send a player whom you consider to be superior the other way (Z-Bo is salary ballast and comedic relief). If you believe in markets, our clearing price is Harrison Barnes is equal to Justin Jackson and ~300 extra pounds.
No, Dallas doesn’t believe this at all. What they do believe is that Barnes is a limited player and by moving his contract for Z-Bo’s expiring they can make a run at Kawhi this summer.
Dallas may be angling for Leonard with moves like this but unless you are Donnie Nelson and are openly admitting that you do bad deals (which includes Harrison Barnes' contract), you cannot say a player for player swap isn't fair value in isolation. There is a decent chance Dallas whiffs on FAs this summer in which case they are left with Jackson for Barnes. I suspect they are ok with that outcome.
Let's leave this aside. You seem pretty certain in your assessment of this deal while I lean the other way. There is nothing more to discuss here without further annoying everyone.
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Morris + 2023 2nd round pick for Wesley Johnson. WAS now $232,000 under luxury tax.
edit: In some ways, Wall's injury could have been the best thing to happen to the 'Zards for some time. With Wall out for next year too (plus no guarantees how he will be when he gets back), they can resign themselves to bottoming out, getting their salary cap in order, and trying to get young talent (cough tank cough). Of course, it would be great to have a competent GM help them rebuild but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
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Yeah, I've seen this movie before. Feel bad for people who have to live in DC and root for that team.
I thought this was brilliant:
https://slate.com/culture/2019/02/anthony-davis-trade-lakers-pelicans-rumors.html
https://slate.com/culture/2019/02/anthony-davis-trade-lakers-pelicans-rumors.html
debate is healthy for a board
A playoff veteran like Barnes probably helps Sacramento as they make a push for the playoffs. A new scenario may motivate him to play harder on the defensive end. Dallas is at a different stage and adding JJ as a cheap bench piece is a great move along with getting some flexibility in the off-season. Win-win for both clubs.
Plus reading HRB's 110% certainty on all things basketball related is entertaining.
It's all opinion....except when you have actual game logs showing that Jackson rarely closes out tight game.debate is healthy for a board
A playoff veteran like Barnes probably helps Sacramento as they make a push for the playoffs. A new scenario may motivate him to play harder on the defensive end. Dallas is at a different stage and adding JJ as a cheap bench piece is a great move along with getting some flexibility in the off-season. Win-win for both clubs.
Plus reading HRB's 110% certainty on all things basketball related is entertaining.
Imagine if we can to post the "opinion" disclaimer with every post?
Anyway, there is talk that Vlade is looking to lock up Barnes long term if they don't use his expiring on another asset.
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PM forthcoming with game logs later this evening. I also value data over opinions.It's all opinion....except when you have actual game logs showing that Jackson rarely closes out tight game.
Imagine if we can to post the "opinion" disclaimer with every post?
Anyway, there is talk that Vlade is looking to lock up Barnes long term if they don't use his expiring on another asset.
And I thought the plan was great because Vlade is going to use Barnes expiring to trade for someone. Now you say he will extend Barnes? That's makes it even worse if its correct. Just when it seems that Sacramento was turning a corner too.
As this is empirical proof that DeJesus is correct in his valuation of Barnes you’re swimming against the tide here.