I agree they need a Center. But not one like Monroe, Sully Monroe would be a brutal defensive pairing up front neither protects the rim in the least.Brickowski said:
NBA Trade Deadline Discussion
- Thread starter Jed Zeppelin
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Brickowski said:
Cellar-Door said:
They need everything, actually. At this point in the rebuilding process, I don't know that fit factors into it much.
Then pick a young center you like. Anthony Davis is obviously untouchable, and so most likely are Valenciunas, Vucevic and Kanter. Pekovic might be moved, but not for Rondo. Who is left? Cody Zeller? Someone whose last name is Plumlee? Mozgov?
Maybe the best option is to keep Rondo and try to develop Olynyck. Or hope the ping pong balls are kind so they can draft Embiid.
Maybe the best option is to keep Rondo and try to develop Olynyck. Or hope the ping pong balls are kind so they can draft Embiid.
Brickowski said:
I don't think Kanter is untouchable. He and Favors haven't meshed well and they're locked into Favors. Whether we want him or not is another matter.
Considering the only real contender w a good center is the pacers id put center dead last on the needs list when it comes to a rebuild. Ive always valued wing scoring over most centers anyways.
I dunno where you draw the line on being a contender, but the Pacers, Spurs, and Clippers all have good centers, and the Thunder have Serge Ibaka, who fills a lot of the same defensive roles (i.e. he's much closer to being a center than a scoring wing).southshoresoxfan said:
Brickowski said:
Cellar-Door said:
Brickowski said:
Brycyk/Cellar,
Why do you think a center is a top priority? To better hide Sully's limitations?
I'm with southshore. IMHO the #1 priority right now is to get efficient bulk scoring. This is the hardest get in the NBA. Better to clarify who that guy will be and then build around him. If McLemore has a 20% shot of being that guy, then I'm interested.
I do agree with the last point. At the moment, developing Olynyk is the best option at center. It allows us to focus resources to upgrade at the 2 or 3.
It's not like they get to cherrypick the player they want and just trade Rondo for him, they have to balance salary cap limitations, the needs of the other team, Rondo's desire to resign, etc.
Those restrictions means that the value they can receive from each team is going to be wildly variable, to the point where asset accumulation should come first, even if there isn't a clear short-term fit or if those assets aren't players at premium positions.
Those restrictions means that the value they can receive from each team is going to be wildly variable, to the point where asset accumulation should come first, even if there isn't a clear short-term fit or if those assets aren't players at premium positions.
Well, you guys should have a discussion with the folks here who make a very convincing case--including a statistical case-- for the importance of rim protection.
Also, even good jump shooters miss roughly half their shots. It's what happens with those misses that very often determines the outcome of the game.
Also, even good jump shooters miss roughly half their shots. It's what happens with those misses that very often determines the outcome of the game.
bowiac said:
Spurs have a PF playing C and Splitter, Clippers have DeAndrae Jordan, and Ibaka is a shot blocking athletic 4.
My point is I'd much rather have an Asik type C with a wing scorer than a Tony Allen type wing with a C who can score the ball consistently. Just personal preference for style of play, and looking at the teams that have won titles since Shaq in 06, its been Perkins, Bynum (2x), Duncan, Chandler, Bosh (2x). The key wings on those teams? Paul Pierce, Kobe (2x), Manu, Dirk, LeBron.
I'd rather find the wing first, thats harder to do IMO than a defensive anchor. You can find those guys when your ready to contend.
I don't know that it is the top priority, rather just that they don't really have a legit NBA starting C on the roster.Jer said:
I was more pointing out that just because they need a center doesn't mean they should be rushing to give a guy like Monroe a huge contract because he plays there.
Well, I'd say that with Rondo looking more and more like a guy headed elsewhere that Boston needs help at every position on the floor. The best remaining guy after Rondo is either an NBA sixth man or an undersized C. So it doesn't matter what position we're discussing, if the guy projects out as "above-average NBA starter" then Boston needs them.Cellar-Door said:
Yeah. Everyone laughed about Houston "stockpiling power forwards" but it worked out okay. I just want the best players out there.nighthob said:
If the Celtics want to be good, they will need at least a couple of players 6-10 or better who can defend the paint and score enough down low to open up the perimeter for their shooters. They can acquire those players now or three years from now, but they won't be serious contenders until they do.
The problem with that is you need to gain assets with value. Monroe with his new contract is unlikely to have much value, unless he magically improves in ways he has shown no evidence of progress.
ivanvamp said:
Agreed. Two 2nd rounders and salary filler is a reasonable fee to get a good look at him and tease out if his shooting issues can be fixed.
If they really love him, they can just outbid everyone else this summer (which probably wouldn't be much more expensive than the Right of 1st Refusal).
Hayward will settle in as a nice roleplayer, not someone Ainge should give up assets or break the bank for. This rumor has floated around all season because of the Stevens connection and I doubt this is anything new or different. I guess I'd be interested in acquiring his RFA rights if there were a wink wink agreement whereby he would refuse any offer sheet to play for his old coach at a huge discount, but we all know how likely that is.
Doubt it. They have 46M on the cap next year, plus the 2 draft picks, cap holds and Bradley. They won't have much room. It should be around $60M, the Celts own pick will get paid about $3.5M-$4M, so already at $50M, then about $2M for the Nets/ATL pick, down to 8M in space for Bradley even if they renounce all the other FAs. Can't see them adding Hayward as a FA.Jer said:
Good point. Forgive my cap ignorance.
If they attained his rights now, I assume that they could push past the cap (but stay below the luxury threshold). Is that true?
If so, I suppose Utah has more leverage.
I still can't imagine giving him $12.5M/year. If Danny goes there, I hope he knows something we don't about the kid.
If they attained his rights now, I assume that they could push past the cap (but stay below the luxury threshold). Is that true?
If so, I suppose Utah has more leverage.
I still can't imagine giving him $12.5M/year. If Danny goes there, I hope he knows something we don't about the kid.
yeah, the advantage of having his RFA rights would be going over the cap.Jer said:
Personally I don't see it happening, Utah will hold out for a 1st, and Ainge won't give one up.
Only way I could see it would be if the Celtics got a 1st for Bass or Green and swung it through to Utah for Hayward.
That rumored Sacramento deal is pretty compelling. Thomas is pretty good and McLemore clearly has huge upside. Add in a pick and its almost a no-brainer for the Celtics at this point. Too bad Rondo has other thoughts...
Utah would slam the phone down in your ear for that offer. That's near nothing.ivanvamp said:
Hayward is approximately the same age, and same experience/contract spot as Avery Bradley.
Would anyone be excited for a two second rounders return for Avery Bradley? I'd hope not, and Hayward has shown more in his career than Bradley has.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Frankly, I'd lose a lot of respect for Rondo if he acquiesced to that deal. Sacramento is a disaster, even with Rudy Gay playing pretty well for them, and trading their best shooter is only going to make them worse.
Yes, I do think that would be a bad move. It does nothing to help move the Celtics into contention. And isn't Thomas in the last year of his deal? What will it cost to keep him?
If the offer was that one sided, Ainge would have taken it. And if the offer were fabricated by the Celtics we would probably have heard that from someone in the Kings' front office.
yeah that would've been a great haul for rondo. mclemore is basically a 1st round pick (he's only 20 and went #7 last year) - he'll never be a superstar but could develop into an above average starter. Thomas is arguably already there. Throw 1-2 1sts on top of that and that's a lot of assets to acquire for 1.5 years of Rondo who is not a part of the strategic plan & is maybe somewhere between 3-10th best PG in the league depending on how bullish/bearish you are on him.
Nah, they would have said something like "we've had offers teams but we consider Ben McLemore to be one of our key building blocks going forward, and we have no intention of trading him, etc. etc." In other words, the same things Ainge says about Rondo. And I'm not entirely convinced that Rondo vetoed the deal. Wasn't Rondo pimping for Rudy Gay to come to Boston last year? I thought they were friends. I have no doubt that Rondo wouldn't commit to an immediate extension by Sacramento, but that's because, given the structure of the new CBA it is not in his best interests to do so until next year.
It will all come out at some point.
Stitch01 said:
Well the story is that the Kings were the ones who backed out, not the Celtics. Because Rondo did not indicate he would sign a long term deal in Sacramento. Of course it could all be bunk.
I'd have loved that trade if it went through. Get Isaiah Thomas on 4/20 mil or something. If McLemore finds his range and you strike lottery gold (Embiiiiiid) you've got a fun inside/outside team in 2014.
5 - Joel Embiid
4 - Jared Sullinger
3 - Jeff Green
2 - Ben McLemore (?)
1 - Isaiah Thomas III
That would have been an intriguing nucleus. Good blend. Meanwhile keep the books clean and trade chips as opportunities arise.
Well, the Kings have already said what I expected them to say. This also confirms that Thomas will be an RFA and will be a lot more expensive going forward. How much should the Celtics be willing to pay for Nate Robinson v. 2.0?
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/02/thomas-available-mclemore.html
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/02/thomas-available-mclemore.html
Brickowski said:
I get the comparison (size, school) but Thomas is already a much better player than Nate Robinson, even in his best seasons. If you want to compare a Denver player to Thomas, you'd do better to call him Ty Lawson 2.0. They are both very quick and very crafty ball-handlers. Nate Robinson is great at creating his own shot and is probably underrated as a passer. But both Thomas and Lawson are more traditional PGs. He and McLemore plus a pick would be a great haul for Rondo, especially since he is almost certainly gone. And unless something bad happens, Thomas is going to have a long career in the Association.
I can't see them trading for him, but I'd say he's worth between 7 and 9M a year. He's certainly a better player than Nate ever was. He's a more efficient shooter, much better FT shooter and gets to the line far more. He's also a much better facilitator than Nate was at the same point in his career. The comparison isn't crazy for what Nate became later in his career, Thomas is basically the rich man's Nate, but if he improves like Nate did he becomes a very good player. (though both are abysmal defenders).Brickowski said:
There is no single move that directly helps put this team in contention. Rondo is the team's best player but trading him can't and won't fill all the holes (creating a hole at pg is one of the reasonable arguments against trading him that I've seen but that depends on how important one thinks it is to have a top 5-10 pg as your highest paid/best player...I'm skeptical).Brickowski said:
The Nets trade didn't put us closer to contention but it is universally accepted as an awesome deal. There are too many parts involved in a rebuild to say a given move doesn't put us closer to contention. The Big Three era was several years in the making and included at least one move that intentionally made the team significantly worse, but it gave Ainge the expiring contract he needed to get KG. Can't look at every potential deal in black and white. If Ainge did there would be no chance of a successful rebuild.
Maybe he will be better than Nate, but this morning the Kings have disclosed that Thomas has a ligament problem in his wrist that may require surgery in the off season. Maybe it's no big deal, but right now he isn't 100% healthy.
Brickowski said:
A plus for Celts, who don't really want to win more games than competing hard will win them this year anyway.
I have no idea what the hell NBA Legion is, but this is interesting:
https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/436195796674162688
https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/436195796674162688
Having two bad free throw shooters (Howard and Rondo) on the court at the end of a tight game seems like a poor idea to me.
Yes, there have been various rumored iterations of this deal. Some have Lin coming back, or Asik, or both. Sometimes Casspi is in the deal, sometimes not. There are also reports that Morey is balking at including Parsons. Maybe Terrence Jones would be a nice consolation prize, if the C's also get Motiejunas.
The picks wouldn't be that good, but I would want Morey to throw in one of the two unprotected Knicks' second rounders he owns along with a couple of first rounders.
It's all wildly unlikely of course.
The picks wouldn't be that good, but I would want Morey to throw in one of the two unprotected Knicks' second rounders he owns along with a couple of first rounders.
It's all wildly unlikely of course.
The Rockets think the Celtics price for Rondo is way too high. Unless that changes drastically, I wouldn't expect much from this.
The Celtics aren't going to get what Philly got for Holiday but they can do better than that Houston deal.
The Nets are on verge of acquiring both Marcus Thornton and Jordan Hill. Hill would add about $15 million dollars in luxury tax alone. That would put their luxury tax bill this season at about $210 million dollars.