NBA Finals Gamethread or how the NBA has more downtime than Game Of Thrones

gingerbreadmann

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Mar 11, 2008
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Three facts:
The Celtics were eliminated from the playoffs on May 25th.
The Warriors ended their season with a championship on June 12th.
The Celtics played one more playoff game than the Warriors in 2017.

I don't know if that says more about the Warriors or the NBA schedule, but wow.
 

Kliq

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If PG is available there about a half dozen teams that could beat whatever Cleveland offers for him, so I don't really know how they would get him unless they did something like out Kyrie on the table. They really don't have a ton of assets.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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To beat the Warriors, Cleveland needs to get faster and more athletic on defense. They just could not consistently get stops, which meant to beat the Warriors they had to score at a ridiculous rate on offense, which they only managed to do once for a full game.
I know you used the term "ridiculous rate" in terms of what they needed their offense to do. And I'm in agreement. Only once did they score at a ridiculous rate. But their offense played really well this series.

Cleveland scored 91, 113, 113, 137, and 120 points this series.

They averaged 110.3 per game during the regular season, so outside that 91 point effort in game 1, they averaged 120.8 points per game.

Golden State averaged 115.9 per game during the regular season, and scored 113, 132, 118, 116, and 129 in the series, for an average of 121.6 per game.

Moreover, during the season, Golden State allowed an average of 104.3 points per game, 120.8 per game during the last four games of the series. Cleveland allowed an average of 107.2 points per game during the season, and 121.6 per game during the playoffs.

When Cleveland was on offense:
- Cle regular season average scored: 110.3
- Cle last four games average scored: 120.8
- GS regular season average allowed: 104.3
- Cle last four games relative to their regular season average: +10.5
- Cle last four games relative to GS' regular season allowed: +16.5

When Golden State was on offense:
- GS regular season average scored: 115.9
- GS series average scored: 121.6
- Cle regular season average allowed: 107.2
- GS series relative to their regular season average: +5.7
- GS series relative to Cle's regular season allowed: +14.4

So if you throw out Cleveland's admittedly awful game 1 performance on offense, their offense actually put up more points *relative to their opponent's defense* than Golden State did.

Conversely, Cleveland's defense played better relative to GS's offense than GS's great defense played relative to Cleveland's defense.

But it doesn't ultimately matter because GS was just that much better. And Cleveland needs to improve on defense, per your larger (and correct) point, by a considerable margin if they want to beat Golden State next year.
 

coremiller

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If PG is available there about a half dozen teams that could beat whatever Cleveland offers for him, so I don't really know how they would get him unless they did something like out Kyrie on the table. They really don't have a ton of assets.
Would teams offer more if George refuses to agree to an extension? Cleveland is one of the few destinations where it makes sense to go all-in for next year. It's an oldish team and LeBron might be leaving after 2018. Next year could be their last shot.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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After watching Durant and Curry, it got me thinking about which guy in NBA history has been the best "second banana" on a championship team.

I'd like to say more about this because I've done some research, but think it's best suited for a different thread. But I'm a little gun-shy because the last thread that I started that I thought would be interesting got shot down and locked in like ten seconds by the mods, and I got ridiculed for it. So........ I'm just gonna wait and ask the mods if they think this is a good topic. If the mods say yes, I'll post more. If they say no, I won't waste anyone's time. (um, this is my way of asking the mods what they think)
 

E5 Yaz

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After watching Durant and Curry, it got me thinking about which guy in NBA history has been the best "second banana" on a championship team.

I'd like to say more about this because I've done some research, but think it's best suited for a different thread. But I'm a little gun-shy because the last thread that I started that I thought would be interesting got shot down and locked in like ten seconds by the mods, and I got ridiculed for it. So........ I'm just gonna wait and ask the mods if they think this is a good topic. If the mods say yes, I'll post more. If they say no, I won't waste anyone's time. (um, this is my way of asking the mods what they think)
I don't think Curry or Durant are second bananas ... they're twin top bananas. Same with Magic and Kareem, Kobe and Shaq, and LeBron and Wade. From the time Magic and Bird entered the league, I think the answer is Scottie Pippen
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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I don't think Curry or Durant are second bananas ... they're twin top bananas. Same with Magic and Kareem, Kobe and Shaq, and LeBron and Wade. From the time Magic and Bird entered the league, I think the answer is Scottie Pippen
By "second banana" I mean that as good as LeBron and Wade were together...one of them was the best player on the team, the other the second best. Clearly in the case of Curry/Durant, Magic/Kareem, Kobe/Shaq, LeBron/Wade, Moses/Erving, Bird/McHale, Jordan/Pippen, Russell/SamJones, Chamberlain/West, Havlicek/Cowens, whichever you put "second" of those two guys is still gonna be a hall of famer, and would be a "first banana" almost anywhere else.
 

NoXInNixon

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Mar 24, 2008
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Would teams offer more if George refuses to agree to an extension? Cleveland is one of the few destinations where it makes sense to go all-in for next year. It's an oldish team and LeBron might be leaving after 2018. Next year could be their last shot.
But Cleveland has almost zero tradable assets. They have already traded away their 2017 and 2019 firsts and even more seconds. A first round swap in 2018 is worth zero. So the earliest they could offer anything is a first round swap in 2020 or their 2021 first. That's so far in the future, I don't know how much Indiana would value it.
 

Devizier

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From the time Magic and Bird entered the league, I think the answer is Scottie Pippen
By the time those Lakers were winning titles, Kareem was a second banana.

Would Ginobili or Parker the second banana on the Spurs? Robinson (when healthy) was more of a co-top banana.
 

Kliq

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By the time those Lakers were winning titles, Kareem was a second banana.

Would Ginobili or Parker the second banana on the Spurs? Robinson (when healthy) was more of a co-top banana.
That isn't true, Kareem was the best player in the 80 and 85 Finals.
 

MillarTime

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But Cleveland has almost zero tradable assets. They have already traded away their 2017 and 2019 firsts and even more seconds. A first round swap in 2018 is worth zero. So the earliest they could offer anything is a first round swap in 2020 or their 2021 first. That's so far in the future, I don't know how much Indiana would value it.
I believe the current hypothesis is that Indy would take Love for George just the extend window with which they have a "star" under contract. I think that's a last resort move for Indy and even then they may be better off keeping George and hoping he makes all-NBA so they can offer him a super-max deal in hopes of keeping him.
 

cheech13

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I don't think Indy considers a George for Love swap unless Cleveland tosses in sweeteners they just don't have. You take one year of George and then call his bluff in free agency. Love doesn't do anything for you except keep you stuck in the 35-45 win range.