NBA Finals Gamethread or how the NBA has more downtime than Game Of Thrones

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I think those pining for KD winning in OKC or lamenting his choice to go to Golden State ignore the fact that Clay Bennett is a horrible owner. First, he promised to keep the Sonics in Seattle and then moved them.

And then, despite their wealth of talent, he pissed away all but three of their core (Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka) because they didn't want to pay to keep them together. Remember, in addition to Harden, they also had peak Sefolosha.

If a person's boss decided to run the company on the cheap and let their buddies walk for peanuts, many people would understand if that person followed suit.

Yet somehow Durant, who had been saddled with a ball dominant, deeply flawed, star teammate plus a few rotation players after having a potential juggernaut before ownership let it fall apart is now considered a front-runner for joining an organization that values unselfishness and a commitment to winning.

We live in strange times.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

And I have nothing but respect for LeBron. He is my GOAT. But come on...

 

[americantrotter]

I think those pining for KD winning in OKC or lamenting his choice to go to Golden State ignore the fact that Clay Bennett is a horrible owner. First, he promised to keep the Sonics in Seattle and then moved them.

And then, despite their wealth of talent, he pissed away all but three of their core (Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka) because they didn't want to pay to keep them together. Remember, in addition to Harden, they also had peak Sefolosha.

If a person's boss decided to run the company on the cheap and let their buddies walk for peanuts, many people would understand if that person followed suit.

Yet somehow Durant, who had been saddled with a ball dominant, deeply flawed, star teammate plus a few rotation players after having a potential juggernaut before ownership let it fall apart is now considered a front-runner for joining an organization that values unselfishness and a commitment to winning.

We live in strange times.

it constantly baffles me how societies sports ethics are opposite to their political ethics.

Europe, largely socialist but definitively capitalist pro sports where money rules.

America, hard core free market but pro sports must be socialist and competitive.

Just weird.

 

[CantKeepmedown]

And I have nothing but respect for LeBron. He is my GOAT. But come on...

How can he say that with a straight face? That Heat team was the very definition of a superteam. He's a weird dude.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I think those pining for KD winning in OKC or lamenting his choice to go to Golden State ignore the fact that Clay Bennett is a horrible owner. First, he promised to keep the Sonics in Seattle and then moved them.

And then, despite their wealth of talent, he pissed away all but three of their core (Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka) because they didn't want to pay to keep them together. Remember, in addition to Harden, they also had peak Sefolosha.

If a person's boss decided to run the company on the cheap and let their buddies walk for peanuts, many people would understand if that person followed suit.

Yet somehow Durant, who had been saddled with a ball dominant, deeply flawed, star teammate plus a few rotation players after having a potential juggernaut before ownership let it fall apart is now considered a front-runner for joining an organization that values unselfishness and a commitment to winning.

We live in strange times.

Ugh. There are numerous people here who have already stated that they understand why he did it. That's not in dispute, at least for most.

 

[Devizier]

I for one, am glad the OKC didn't win any championships (and will not anytime soon)

[/ex-Seattle resident]

 

[Sam Ray Not]

You know, at the end of the regular season last year I would have argued that Curry was the best player in the NBA. Right now, I think he is inarguably the fourth best player in this series.

Lol, what?

Curry in the finals (in 37.7 mpg):

26.8 points on .619 true shooting
8.0 rebounds
9.4 assists
2.2 steals
126 ortg, 113 drtg

Other than Durant and LeBron (two best players on the planet for 5-6 years now), it's a stretch to claim that anyone was even arguably better than Curry in this series.

Though I guess if one worships at the altar of ppg above all else, I could imagine nominating Kyrie and 29.4 pts (in 40.3 mpg) on .558 true shooting, 4.0 reb, 4.4 ast and 1.0 stl, 111 ortg and 125 drtg.

 

[Van Everyman]

And I have nothing but respect for LeBron. He is my GOAT. But come on...

Eh, his team just lost in 5 and most of the games weren't particularly close. It's ok for him to be surly.

It's funny: after the Cavs rolled over the Celtics most people here were kinda salty and said, "Yeah, well, this team is gonna get swept by the Warriors anyway." Well, it nearly happened. I didn't watch much of this series but this GS team is scary good – even when they don't play very well (as they weren't for the first quarter last night) somebody is hitting shots somewhere.

Agree with whoever said it would've been nice to see the Spurs with a healthy Kawhi against them.

 

[Strike4]

LeBron is a better player. Durant is a better shooter and fits this Warriors offense perfectly but he's not better than Lebron.

I agree. I was also thinking of the timeline though - Lebron is 32 and Durant is 27. Would you take Lebron over Durant for the next five years?

Lebron's style of play would be enough to kill most players, and he hasn't lost it. I just wonder when he will.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I agree. I was also thinking of the timeline though - Lebron is 32 and Durant is 27. Would you take Lebron over Durant for the next five years?

Lebron's style of play would be enough to kill most players, and he hasn't lost it. I just wonder when he will.

Barring injury, I wouldn't expect him to show much decline in the next few years. I think we're going to start seeing more regular season rest because until a viable threat emerges in the East, the Cavs' seeding is entirely irrelevant until the Finals. And GS is probably going to be a 65 win machine the next few years.

With his passing an elite athleticism, I think LeBron's game is going to age quite well. When the athleticism starts to dip a little, he'll probably become even more of a distributor.

 

[pjheff]

Who is going to be knocking down the door to give up something better than Love in exchange...for Love? Do they really have any other assets to offer?

Their lack of assets, and desperation to keep Lebron happy while his window is open, makes them vulnerable to a shrewd GM. I wonder if Ainge could exploit this situation to his advantage.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Ugh. There are numerous people here who have already stated that they understand why he did it. That's not in dispute, at least for most.

It was in response to a number of posts saying that Durant took the easy road to a championship. I fully admit that it looks that way to your average fan and even worse to your casual NBA viewer. However anyone who knows about OKC ownership should know better.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It was in response to a number of posts saying that Durant took the easy road to a championship. I fully admit that it looks that way to your average fan and even worse to your casual NBA viewer. However anyone who knows about OKC ownership should know better.

If only everyone were as sophisticated as you. Get off your soapbox already. It's getting tiresome.

Last offseason, Durant had 4 main options:

1. Stay in OKC
2. Go to Golden State
3. Go to Boston
4. Go Somewhere else

He chose Door #2 and that was clearly the easiest path to a title. Pointing that out doesn't make someone an "average fan" or "casual viewer". There are plenty of very astute basketball fans on this site and elsewhere who have said the very same thing.

As has been stated a million times, he had every right to do what he did and he earned every platitude that he is getting with that virtuoso performance....but in the summer of 2016, he chose the path of least resistance. Doesn't make him a bad guy, a wuss, or any of that but it is what it is. And now the league will have to figure out a way to not get curb stomped by this team for the next few years.

 

[coremiller]

Lol, what?

Curry in the finals (in 37.7 mpg):

26.8 points on .619 true shooting
8.0 rebounds
9.4 assists
2.2 steals
126 ortg, 113 drtg

Other than Durant and LeBron (two best players on the planet for 5-6 years now), it's a stretch to claim that anyone was even arguably better than Curry in this series.

Though I guess if one worships at the altar of ppg above all else, I could imagine nominating Kyrie and 29.4 pts (in 40.3 mpg) on .558 true shooting, 4.0 reb, 4.4 ast and 1.0 stl, 111 ortg and 125 drtg.

Yeah, there's no way Kyrie was better than Curry in this series. Kyrie was brilliant in the two Cleveland games but shot 27/67 (.401) in the three games in Oakland. And when Kyrie is not making ridiculous shots at a high rate, he doesn't have enough non-scoring strengths in his game (passing, rebounding, defense, etc.) to make up for it.

Kyrie is still only 25 though. He can still improve. Curry is 29 and is a much better all-around player now than he was four years ago. If Kyrie commits to improving the non-scoring parts of his game he could really jump up another level, from a top ~15-20 player to a top ~5-10 one.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

If only everyone were as sophisticated as you. Get off your soapbox already. It's getting tiresome.

Last offseason, Durant had 4 main options:

1. Stay in OKC
2. Go to Golden State
3. Go to Boston
4. Go Somewhere else

He chose Door #2 and that was clearly the easiest path to a title. Pointing that out doesn't make someone an "average fan" or "casual viewer". There are plenty of very astute basketball fans on this site and elsewhere who have said the very same thing.

As has been stated a million times, he had every right to do what he did and he earned every platitude that he is getting with that virtuoso performance....but in the summer of 2016, he chose the path of least resistance. Doesn't make him a bad guy, a wuss, or any of that but it is what it is. And now the league will have to figure out a way to not get curb stomped by this team for the next few years.

I don't know what "tiresome" soapbox you are referring to as I only made one post of this nature in this thread and maybe one or two when Durant moved.

As to your actual point, we all know the facts. I too would have preferred he go to the Celtics but he chose winning over being an absolute alpha after years of being asked to do the same while being saddled with increasingly inferior talent around him. It's completely understandable imho.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don't know what "tiresome" soapbox you are referring to as I only made one post of this nature in this thread and maybe one or two when Durant moved.

As to your actual point, we all know the facts. I too would have preferred he go to the Celtics but he chose winning over being an absolute alpha after years of being asked to do the same while being saddled with increasingly inferior talent around him. It's completely understandable imho.

This post did a good job of not addressing the point I was making - that you calling fans who thought he took the easy way out last summer as being "average fans" or "casual viewers" is silly and condescending.

We all know why he chose to go that route but it clearly was the easiest route, which is all most people are saying. And this isn't just a Celtics-centric argument since we were in the running. I know great NBA fans of other teams saying the same thing. You may disagree with it but it's out there.

 

[BaseballJones]

Barring injury, I wouldn't expect him to show much decline in the next few years. I think we're going to start seeing more regular season rest because until a viable threat emerges in the East, the Cavs' seeding is entirely irrelevant until the Finals. And GS is probably going to be a 65 win machine the next few years.

With his passing an elite athleticism, I think LeBron's game is going to age quite well. When the athleticism starts to dip a little, he'll probably become even more of a distributor.

The crazy thing about LeBron is that he's bigger than Magic was (an inch shorter but like 45 pounds heavier) and much more athletic.

So as he ages, he could end up being a Magic type player with a better shot and post up game. He wouldn't need to score 25-30 a night to be incredible. He is more than capable of being an 18 point, 8 rebound, 12 assist monster every night at age 35+. And that's at the very back end of his career, not the peak.

 

[johnmd20]

Durant, the 2nd best player in the NBA, joined the greatest regular season in history. How can any fan, casual or otherwise, say that wasn't the path of least resistance?

 

[Nick Kaufman]

It was in response to a number of posts saying that Durant took the easy road to a championship. I fully admit that it looks that way to your average fan and even worse to your casual NBA viewer. However anyone who knows about OKC ownership should know better.

Since when his dilemma was between OKC and Golden State. You don't want to stay to OKC? Fine. Go to DC. Go to Boston.

I thought last years Warriors were better than the Cavs, but the Cavs got lucky and stole the title from them. With KD, the Warriors were above and beyond better. How is that not frontrunning?

 

[Sam Ray Not]

The crazy thing about LeBron is that he's bigger than Magic was (an inch shorter but like 45 pounds heavier) and much more athletic.

So as he ages, he could end up being a Magic type player with a better shot and post up game. He wouldn't need to score 25-30 a night to be incredible. He is more than capable of being an 18 point, 8 rebound, 12 assist monster every night at age 35+. And that's at the very back end of his career, not the peak.

I could also see him increasingly relying on the killer pull up three-ball that late-career Magic developed. He's already gotten a lot better in that area than he was in his 20s. He's such a high-IQ player that you know he'll figure out exactly what areas of his game to sharpen as he ages.

Still: I'd definitely take age 29-33 KD over age 33-37 LeBron, if that's the topic.

 

[BaseballJones]

Different sport of course, but let's say JJ Watt decided to sign in New England because he wanted to win a title. Arguably the defensive player in football joining the clear best team in the league.

How many people here would be critical of his choice?

I get that the NBA is different than the NFL but what, exactly, is wrong with Durant choosing to go to Golden State? He wanted a championship. He wanted to play with those guys. The opportunity was there.

Yes I get that it's not as cool to see a guy win it as the alpha dog on a lesser team, but at the end of the day, Durant will almost certainly be remembered for being the best player on the team that won multiple championships.

 

[tims4wins]

For 1, being 1 of 12 (and 1 of 5 starters) is different than being 1 of 53. KD on any team wins 50 games. Whereas JJ Watt can easily be on a 2-14 team.

Also, look at the title odds for next year. The NFL isn't anything close to that. The best teams in the NFL are like 5-1 or 6-1.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Different sport of course, but let's say JJ Watt decided to sign in New England because he wanted to win a title. Arguably the defensive player in football joining the clear best team in the league.

How many people here would be critical of his choice?

I get that the NBA is different than the NFL but what, exactly, is wrong with Durant choosing to go to Golden State? He wanted a championship. He wanted to play with those guys. The opportunity was there.

Yes I get that it's not as cool to see a guy win it as the alpha dog on a lesser team, but at the end of the day, Durant will almost certainly be remembered for being the best player on the team that won multiple championships.

There are 2 separate arguments being held right now that we shouldn't conflate:

1. Did Durant take the easy way out? DeJesus in post #1460 seems to indicate no but I'll let him clarify that one if he so chooses. Most, including me, are saying absolutely.

2. Is it lame for Durant to choose Golden State, a team that already had 3 all stars and had just won 73 games? Some will say yes, some will say no. There's no right answer here.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

I don't know what "tiresome" soapbox you are referring to as I only made one post of this nature in this thread and maybe one or two when Durant moved.

As to your actual point, we all know the facts. I too would have preferred he go to the Celtics but he chose winning over being an absolute alpha after years of being asked to do the same while being saddled with increasingly inferior talent around him. It's completely understandable imho.

For me, the main problem is that you refuse to acknowledge the effect his decision has had on the league, which is to make it largely noncompetitive and boring. Yes, for Golden State fans and groupies (look, Snoop Dog is at the game! Splash bros!) it's all unicorns and rainbows, but some of us here are analyzing the result of his decision, not the decision itself.

And I fully acknowledge that it isn't KD's job to ensure the competitiveness of the NBA, but his decision did shift the balance in a major way. Now, instead of watching competitive and compelling basketball, we get the Globetrotters vs. the Generals on a regular basis, and, unfortunately, it appears that it's going to remain like that for a while. For me and others, it's a major turnoff for a league that was quite compelling and had perhaps its best finals in history (and a great overall playoffs, too) just one short year ago, before The Decision part 2.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

There are 2 separate arguments being held right now that we shouldn't conflate:

1. Did Durant take the easy way out? DeJesus in post #1460 seems to indicate yes but I'll let him clarify that one if he so chooses. Most, including me, are saying absolutely.

2. Is it lame for Durant to choose Golden State, a team that already had 3 all stars and had just won 73 games? Some will say yes, some will say no. There's no right answer here.

3. The end result is that the league, as a whole, and it's viability as an entertaining product is significantly worse.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

edit: double post

 

[coremiller]

I get the point about lamenting the lack of competitiveness, but damn was that series fun to watch. I'm a Warriors fan, so I'm biased, but for me this series with the high-pace spread style with tons of superskilled players on both sides was way more fun to watch than, say, the much more competitive 2005 Finals that went 7 games but that was mostly dreadful as a spectacle.

Also, sometimes greatness is entertaining too in its own way. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Tiger win by 15 at Pebble Beach or Federer bagel guys at Wimbledon even though those weren't remotely competitive.

 

[reggiecleveland]

What is preferable joining star players to win a title like KD and LBJ or leaving a good team because you want to be "the man" like Tracy McGrady?

LBJ may have started something by taking "his talents" to a place to win a title in his prime. The accepted route in the past was to chase a title past your prime. I don't blame either guy for going after a title. So many respected pros have to listen to lifetime of criticism for not winning a title.

As for KD he made an unpopular decision. But, he did what he had to after that decision. GS had to win after he went there and he had to play otherworldly in the finals to ease some of the criticism. He accomplished both.

 

[djbayko]

How can he say that with a straight face? That Heat team was the very definition of a superteam. He's a weird dude.

Meh. I love hating on Lebron, and part of me wants to scream "You invented the concept of Super Team, jerkface!!!" But I think he was trying to give one of his cliched type of answers -!about not focusing on the past and his current team being the best team or something like that - and just got tripped up in his words.

If he truly meant that the Heat weren't a Super Team, then he lives in a bubble. That's absurd.

 

[Auger34]

It was in response to a number of posts saying that Durant took the easy road to a championship. I fully admit that it looks that way to your average fan and even worse to your casual NBA viewer. However anyone who knows about OKC ownership should know better.

That ownership comment is revisionist history at its finest. It's also projecting what other people think on to Durant, something that the Durant defenders are so very quick to point out whenever someone questions his decision to go to Golden State or says it was an easy way out.

Literally everything written about Durant says he loved OKC. The community, the infrastructure, the way they handled the media, etc

Its pretty clear what Durant's priorities were:
- He wanted to go to a team that didn't win the title last year (he has been quoted saying this, Draymond Green recently said it as well). This is the priority which just absolutely baffles me. He obviously doesn't want to be perceived as a front runner or someone who is riding coattails yet he joined the team that just set the regular season record for victories

-He wanted to play in a more free flowing offense with a very good head coach and with teammates who had high basketball IQs. Every meeting he took was with a team that had a strong head coach and players who are known to "play the right way"

This one's less clear but I think if you read his quotes about why he loves Golden State it's a pretty safe assumption. It also explains why he probably wouldn't have come to Boston regardless.

- He didn't want to be THE GUY. He wanted to join a team where he could be great but wasn't explicitly counted on to do it all. I am not sure he liked the pressure and expectations that came with all of that off the court, I think he wanted to go somewhere where he could blend in more off the court and have more business opportunity as well.

There have been other things written about his decision by people that seem well sourced (he's very easily influenced, the fact Draymond called and recruited him so hard meant a lot to him, didn't want to play with Russ anymore, Nike wanting to stop Under Armour's momentum by putting a really popular Nike athlete on the same team as Steph) but those all seem to have a little too much guessing and innuendo.

 

[djbayko]

There are 2 separate arguments being held right now that we shouldn't conflate:

1. Did Durant take the easy way out? DeJesus in post #1460 seems to indicate no but I'll let him clarify that one if he so chooses. Most, including me, are saying absolutely.

2. Is it lame for Durant to choose Golden State, a team that already had 3 all stars and had just won 73 games? Some will say yes, some will say no. There's no right answer here.

This breakdown helps illustrate why this argument always gets so heated. I don't think anyone can really argue with #1. It's #2 that gets people riled up. Everyone needs to realize that it's a very personal question, and everyone is going to have different reasons for liking or disliking it, and that's okay.

Personally, I don't care much about the competitivness of the league. Frankly, I enjoy watching greatness, and TV ratings historically show that everyone else does too (not only to watch them win but also to watch them lose). I loved watching the 90's Jordan-led Bulls do their thing, and I love watching GSW even though I'm not a fan of their team. Also, as Patriots fans, it's really difficult to complain about competitiveness.

I just think Durant's decision was fucking lame and that he's a wuss. I'm not wrong and neither is anyone who disagrees with me.

 

[Auger34]

Meh. I love hating on Lebron, and part of me wants to scream "You invented the concept of Super Team, jerkface!!!" But I think he was trying to give one of his cliched type of answers -!about not focusing on the past and his current team being the best team or something like that - and just got tripped up in his words.

If he truly meant that the Heat weren't a Super Teal, then he lives in a bubble. That's absurd.

I think he's being sort of coy while also taking a dig at Durant. If you saw his comments earlier in the series he was talking about how the Heat and Cavs had to "blow up" their rosters in order to fit him (and Bosh in the Miami case) and how that led to a lot of new faces and they had to do a lot of growing together etc.
I think he is intentionally giving his own context to "super team" by saying that really only Durant joined a super team since they only had to replace one guy really.

But I could be completely wrong about that interpretation, especially since him and Durant actually seem like friends

 

[djbayko]

I think he's being sort of coy while also taking a dig at Durant. If you saw his comments earlier in the series he was talking about how the Heat and Cavs had to "blow up" their rosters in order to fit him (and Bosh in the Miami case) and how that led to a lot of new faces and they had to do a lot of growing together etc.
I think he is intentionally giving his own context to "super team" by saying that really only Durant joined a super team since they only had to replace one guy really.

But I could be completely wrong about that interpretation, especially since him and Durant actually seem like friends

If that's what he meant, then he is a giant douche. But we knew that already

 

[Devizier]

I only root for greatness when it suits up for the Celtics (or whomever). There are exceptions, like when the Mariners won 116 games and maybe the Astros this year, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Of course, I am a homer, which is basically the point of professional sports.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I get the point about lamenting the lack of competitiveness, but damn was that series fun to watch. I'm a Warriors fan, so I'm biased, but for me this series with the high-pace spread style with tons of superskilled players on both sides was way more fun to watch than, say, the much more competitive 2005 Finals that went 7 games but that was mostly dreadful as a spectacle.

Also, sometimes greatness is entertaining too in its own way. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Tiger win by 15 at Pebble Beach or Federer bagel guys at Wimbledon even though those weren't remotely competitive.

I think it's tough to try to compare individual sports to this. Tiger or Federer blowing away the competition was to behold singular greatness, exceptional athletes at their prime doing it all on their own.

The singular versus the field is far more impressive than a team game - if the individual doesn't perform he doesn't win. If you build a super team and one guy has a bad night, you've got the other guys to pick up the slack and you can still win. (You also have a seven game series, but that's a different point). If Federer has an off day, he's gone. If Tiger has a bad day he's likely gone.

As you admit, you've got some bias built in as a Warriors fan. As a C's fan and probably what one would describe as an average and not crazy fan of the NBA in general, this entire season and playoffs were boring as all hell. We knew where it was going to end up. And it did, in completely boring fashion.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

For me, the main problem is that you refuse to acknowledge the effect his decision has had on the league, which is to make it largely noncompetitive and boring. Yes, for Golden State fans and groupies (look, Snoop Dog is at the game! Splash bros!) it's all unicorns and rainbows, but some of us here are analyzing the result of his decision, not the decision itself.

And I fully acknowledge that it isn't KD's job to ensure the competitiveness of the NBA, but his decision did shift the balance in a major way. Now, instead of watching competitive and compelling basketball, we get the Globetrotters vs. the Generals on a regular basis, and, unfortunately, it appears that it's going to remain like that for a while. For me and others, it's a major turnoff for a league that was quite compelling and had perhaps its best finals in history (and a great overall playoffs, too) just one short year ago, before The Decision part 2.

I don't refuse to acknowledge that Durants decision changed the competitive landscape. It absolutely did.

I was simply providing the context of an elite talent who was being nickled and dimed by his ownership and falling short in the process.

I wouldn't call him deciding to go from that environment to a place that gave him the best shot at winning the same thing as front-running especially since the Warriors lost last year but others disagree and that is fine. To me, the crap he put up with prior to winning matters.

 

[DJnVa]

Will someone let me know if I'm supposed to be upset at

1--guys just going for money

Or

2--guys that take less $$$ to win


Thanks.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

The 2016-17 Warriors now rate as the best NBA team ever by 538's elo system (article soon to appear, I'm sure...)

1. 2016-17 Warriors (final elo of 1860)
2. 1995-96 Bulls (elo of 1853)
3. 1996-97 Bulls
4. 2015-16 Warriors
5. 2014-15 Warriors
6. 1985-86 Celtics

Also: the Warriors just tied the Spurs for most titles by a franchise not named the Celtics, Lakers or Bulls (5).

Edit: forgot the Bulls, thanks coremiller!

 

[coremiller]

The 2016-17 Warriors now rate as the best NBA team ever by 538's elo system (article soon to appear, I'm sure...)

1. 2016-17 Warriors (final elo of 1860)
2. 1995-96 Bulls (elo of 1853)
3. 1996-97 Bulls
4. 2015-16 Warriors
5. 2014-15 Warriors
6. 1985-86 Celtics

Also: the Warriors just tied the Spurs for most titles by a franchise not named the Celtics or Lakers (5).

The Bulls have six.

 

[cheech13]

If that's what he meant, then he is a giant douche. But we knew that already

I think what Lebron is saying is that neither the Heat nor the Cavs were particularly good when he joined them, whereas Durant joined one of the best teams in history. He's wrong that the teams he joined weren't superteams, but I understand what he's trying to say.

 

[snowmanny]

I don't really have a problem with his decision to play in GS.

I do think there's a PROBABILITY the Warriors beat the Cavs in next year's finals, which is a bit of an issue.

 

[NoXInNixon]

Here's why I didn't like Durant to the Warriors. I enjoy the long term strategy of team building and watching how front offices build winning teams and then keep winning teams together. I love watching smart GMs nailing multiple draft picks and/or trades to put together a young core, and watching as it develops into a winner.

So to me what happened with the Heat felt like "cheating" because that superteam wasn't built with smart drafts and trades, but a bunch of great players who just decided to play together.

The Warriors built their team initially through smart drafting, but adding Durant wasn't a smart move. It was a gift caused by circumstances beyond their control. And it hurts my long-term interest in the league because there are a lot of potentially exciting young teams right now, but I'm worried that it won't matter if in four years The Brow and Wall and Towns decide they will take less money to play together somewhere.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

The Bulls have six.

Whoops! Thanks. Fixed.

Bulls in the crosshairs for next season.

 

[BaseballJones]

For 1, being 1 of 12 (and 1 of 5 starters) is different than being 1 of 53. KD on any team wins 50 games. Whereas JJ Watt can easily be on a 2-14 team.

Also, look at the title odds for next year. The NFL isn't anything close to that. The best teams in the NFL are like 5-1 or 6-1.

Yeah I get that - mainly it has to do with the one-and-done nature of the NFL playoffs. The Patriots would likely have won about 10 championships in the Brady era if you had to win 3 of 5 or 4 of 7 to advance. But the principle is the same - an elite player at the height of his powers joining a juggernaut. We wouldn't have a problem with it if that guy came to OUR juggernaut, I don't think.

There are 2 separate arguments being held right now that we shouldn't conflate:

1. Did Durant take the easy way out? DeJesus in post #1460 seems to indicate no but I'll let him clarify that one if he so chooses. Most, including me, are saying absolutely.

2. Is it lame for Durant to choose Golden State, a team that already had 3 all stars and had just won 73 games? Some will say yes, some will say no. There's no right answer here.

Durant definitely joined the team that already had the best chance of winning. But as someone else pointed out, he took less money to do it. Don't forget, though, he didn't join the defending NBA champions. He joined the team that LOST in the NBA championship series.

As for your second point....again, they won 73 games but not the NBA championship.

I agree that there's no doubt that KD joining the great Warriors just made them virtually impossible to beat - it was going to take something freaky like a terrible injury or whatever to knock them out. Is that lame? I don't know. Like I said, at the end of the day, when people look back on his career, they'll see an inner circle hall of famer, and all-time great player, who should end up with 3-5 rings, and be the best player on that team that won 3-5 rings.

I do think that the NBA might be more fun if KD joined Boston, say. You'd still have a loaded Warriors team, a loaded Cavs team, a loaded Spurs team, and then a loaded Celtics team, plus an emerging Rockets and still dangerous OKC club, plus some more teams on the upswing like Washington and Utah.

I think if KD was on Boston, we'd be able to put those top four teams (and add in Houston probably) into the mix of genuine championship contenders. Now, it's really just two. Maybe one and a half.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Here's why I didn't like Durant to the Warriors. I enjoy the long term strategy of team building and watching how front offices build winning teams and then keep winning teams together. I love watching smart GMs nailing multiple draft picks and/or trades to put together a young core, and watching as it develops into a winner.

So to me what happened with the Heat felt like "cheating" because that superteam wasn't built with smart drafts and trades, but a bunch of great players who just decided to play together.

The Warriors built their team initially through smart drafting, but adding Durant wasn't a smart move. It was a gift caused by circumstances beyond their control. And it hurts my long-term interest in the league because there are a lot of potentially exciting young teams right now, but I'm worried that it won't matter if in four years The Brow and Wall and Towns decide they will take less money to play together somewhere.

I would agree with this but I will say that Golden State deserves credit for managing their roster so that Durant could be in position to make the decision he made. I also think that it was a bit of a perfect storm due to the salary cap going up. I'm not overly concerned with superteam formations because it requires so much skill and luck to pull off.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

There are plenty of very astute basketball fans on this site.....

Man, if that's the case I wish they would post here more.

Seriously though, we all have our own opinions and biases. To bring this back to last nights game, I for one thought that was one of the most invisible 40+ point performance I've ever seen. He was on the floor but completely disinterested when GS went on that 17-2 run to take the game back over. Also his defense last night was embarrassing. Has to be better than that.

 

[Devizier]

As for "fun" outcomes -- generally for the NBA -- Durant to the Wizards probably would have been more interesting than Durant to the Celtics. That team would still have an awful bench, but the starting five would be something to behold. Certainly one of (if not the) most athletic starting fives in NBA history.

 

[cheech13]

What exactly do the Cavs do to get better and close the gap next year? I've heard the Love for George ideas, but that does nothing for Indy long term. They'd need a third team to get involved and move picks or young players to the Pacers. Would someone like Denver or Phoenix do that? I just don't know.

The bench is a mess and they need a backup PG, wing, and another big man and only have the mini-mid level to work with. There are veterans out there that might take a discount to chase a ring (Randolph, Green, Evans, Afflalo, etc.) but those guys don't move the needle. They could also sign with Golden State to do the same with a little more certainty.

Underrated potential offseason story: David Griffin's contract is up at the end of the month. Most assume he'll be back, but if talks break down that could introduce some chaos to an organization that doesn't need it.

 

[djbayko]

I think what Lebron is saying is that neither the Heat nor the Cavs were particularly good when he joined them, whereas Durant joined one of the best teams in history. He's wrong that the teams he joined weren't superteams, but I understand what he's trying to say.

Well, we have at least 3 different interpretations in this thread alone

All we know is that he wanted out of that question fast.

 

[coremiller]

What exactly do the Cavs do to get better and close the gap next year? I've heard the Love for George ideas, but that does nothing for Indy long term. They'd need a third team to get involved and move picks or young players to the Pacers. Would someone like Denver or Phoenix do that? I just don't know.

The bench is a mess and they need a backup PG, wing, and another big man and only have the mini-mid level to work with. There are veterans out there that might take a discount to chase a ring (Randolph, Green, Evans, Afflalo, etc.) but those guys don't move the needle. They could also sign with Golden State to do the same with a little more certainty.

Underrated potential offseason story: David Griffin's contract is up at the end of the month. Most assume he'll be back, but if talks break down that could introduce some chaos to an organization that doesn't need it.

To beat the Warriors, Cleveland needs to get faster and more athletic on defense. They just could not consistently get stops, which meant to beat the Warriors they had to score at a ridiculous rate on offense, which they only managed to do once for a full game.

Love actually worked hard on defense, but he has limitations. You can't play two bigs against the Warriors, especially when the Warriors go small, which meant Cleveland had to choose between Love and Tristan Thompson, which is sub-optimal when those are probably your third and fourth best players. A defense with Irving, Love, and Korver on the court (which was how Cleveland closed the game last night) just has too many exploitable matchups for the Warriors. A Love for Paul George trade would help a lot in that respect, because George could play with Thompson, allowing Cleveland to keep Thompson on the court for defense and rebounding and allowing them to switch PNRs a lot more. An Irving/Smith/George/LeBron/Thompson defense would match up a lot better on D than their current lineup. It would also give them another guy with the length and athleticism to guard Durant, freeing LeBron to go back to guarding Draymond and playing his free safety role on defense, which suits him a lot more than trying to shut down KD 1v1.

The issue would be whether Cleveland would be interested in that deal.