NBA Draft Game Thread (Spoilers allowed)
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
Thornton, can shoot. 39% from 3, he had the 2nd highest max vertical, 4th quickest shuttle eun at the combine (Rozier was 3rd), fastest combine sprint, and he's short. That's all I got.
That is closely guarded secret. Known only to him, Danny Ainge, Austin Ainge, and a panel of phrenologists.RedOctober3829 said:
#2 rated 2014 recruit Cliff Alexander too. He was the consolation prize to Okafor.Cellar-Door said:
I agree. I did not like the Smart pick, and I don't like this either.The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
Neither are the Lakers property however so they can accept a training camp invite from any team who offers.Cellar-Door said:
And he was actually pretty good for the Celtics last year once he got going. Oh, wait...Cellar-Door said:
Name jokes aside (there was another draft prospect named Marcus Thornton out of Georgia), my 4 years at W&M coincided with Marcus's. Needless to say I'm pretty ecstatic, although I understand why most aren't. I will just say that we played against a lot of teams that were much bigger and stronger and Marcus always found a way to create and keep us in games. I didn't think he would get drafted, but in limited experience he is the most electric basketball player I've watched live outside of Paul Pierce
Still? Marcus is going to be in the NBA for a long time.
I think the Cs are going to run out lineups of 4 guards and KO and run Paul Westhead's system.
The only guy on the team that could consistently create his own offense when things broke down last year was Thomas. With these picks it looks like Danny added a little more dynamics to the offense. Both players can create opportunities when things go south. They both also project as players that can actually play defense at the next level. Something that will keep them in the league. I'm actually not that upset about either pick.
The Rozier pick does seem to indicate Bradley should be renting right now, but that is probably pre-mature. Unfortunately they are what they are, mid-late to late round draft picks. We should just be happy if they stick and contribute.... which seems somewhat likely.
I guess the fireworks we need to wait on is the return that Bradley/ Sullinger/ Bass and the expiring Wallace contract can give us.
The Rozier pick does seem to indicate Bradley should be renting right now, but that is probably pre-mature. Unfortunately they are what they are, mid-late to late round draft picks. We should just be happy if they stick and contribute.... which seems somewhat likely.
I guess the fireworks we need to wait on is the return that Bradley/ Sullinger/ Bass and the expiring Wallace contract can give us.
Ainge trying to spin this draft on TSH right now. Saying people booed in Phoenix when they drafted Steve Nash and Shawn Marion.
That Kobe tweet is 10/10. That and the boos for the Knicks pick almost make up for a disappointing night.
Yeah that makes some sense. Have to wait until deals are done. They do need another guy to get in the paint off the dribble. In isolation adding these guys to the current mix seems odd. Somebody is probably getting traded.Silent Chief said:
Both Bradley and Smart last year showed a maddening inability to get into the paint off the dribble. I haven't given up on Smart in this regard, because I think he was just a little unsure of himself taking the ball to the basket. But he might never have that skill, and Bradley will never be a good enough ball handler to create much off the dribble. If Rozier is more of a Kyle Lowry-type penetrating guard, that's a skill the Celtics sorely need. The pieces still clearly don't fit together, but Rozier's an interesting pick to me.
Devizier said:
Honestly though, when you come into the draft with the 16th and 28th picks, you can't *expect* to move up just because you really want to. If Charlotte wanted more than those 2 picks, then I think Danny was right to balk. The Celtics chance for drastic improvement on draft day comes from the Nets picks.
The problem that I have with this team is that they have to make certain moves this offseason to set themselves up to acquire a superstar when the cap goes up. If they don't get the pieces in place to make a run at a star then they'll be mediocre at best for years to come. That is why people are mad that Danny didn't get anything done. In the future, Danny should just keep his mouth shut and stop telling the fans that he's "trying to move up". Less talk, more action.
RedOctober3829 said:
So, because they didn't get WCS or Winslow there's no chance? Trades aren't unilateral. Should they have paid any price?
It seems like people are thinking the Celtics blew the #3 and #5 pick here. They had #16 and #28. If Charlotte or Philly or whoever doesn't want them, the Celtics are stuck.
Moving up for Winslow or really anyone in this draft does nothing to change the math on attracting a superstar. Wiggins was pegged as a future star since high school and Lebron wanted nothing to do with him. Yes, the Celtics don't have that big ticket item to use in a trade but there was no chance of getting one last night short of giving up so much that it would actually be a net negative asset-wise. The unfortunate run to the playoffs screwed the timing of this rebuild a bit since 2016 always made more sense as the year to make the Big Leap.
Offseason has barely started, and we know Ainge is better at trades anyway. There's no problem with incremental improvement for the time being while Brooklyn's tank begins in earnest. RHJ is a decent pickup for them but they also drafted a guy who won't make an impact next season and currently have zero front court players under contract.
Offseason has barely started, and we know Ainge is better at trades anyway. There's no problem with incremental improvement for the time being while Brooklyn's tank begins in earnest. RHJ is a decent pickup for them but they also drafted a guy who won't make an impact next season and currently have zero front court players under contract.
Rozier is a terrible finisher at the time as well. He does appear to have a quicker first step than Smart who will never be effective off the dribble as he simply doesn't have a quick first step which is necessary in the NBA whereas he was able to physically bully his way into the paint against Big-12 college guards and drew contact to get to the line. Smart is your prototypical 3 and D guy who needs to become a more consistent 3-point shooter.CreightonGubanich said:
Time will tell on what Rozier turns into but the comp I keep going back to is Jarrett Jack when he was at Georgia Tech. Physical specimen who could get to his spot off the dribble who also had good technique and touch on his perimeter shot only needing to master it......same with Rozier, I'm optimistic on his perimeter shooting and in his ability to slow the game down (where at Louisville he was asked to constantly speed it up with their matchup zone and press) to get into a comfort zone shooting the ball.
If he ends up with a Jarrett Jack-like career that is a big win with the 16h pick.
Just saw this from Lowe:bankshot1 said:
https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/614467972854362112
I can see why Ainge was annoyed - it sounds like he offered a pretty great package.
bowiac said:
Here's the rumored package that was offered:
https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Toscano/status/614448402617790464
Holy shit guys, turns out Ainge didn't want to give 5 fucking picks! What an incompetent asshole he is!
They do need to consolidate at some point within the next year but I'd rather it be for more of a sure thing, even if Winslow's a pretty safe prospect.
Thanksbowiac said:
IMO Ainge was probably too publicly transparent on his desire to move up.
So demands got inflated.
But i don't blame him for not dealing 5 1s for moving up 7 spots.
Maybe he added some depth last night.
Or maybe both the C's and Brooklyn suck next year.
Unrelated, after people got annoyed at me last night for suggesting Ainge was only an average drafter, I decided to run an analysis of his drafting. However, due to the goofy way NBA drafts work with players wearing the wrong hats on draft night, this can be tricky.
I wanted to crowd-source a bit - am I missing anyone off this list, or is there anyone on here who shouldn't be? (This is based on who a given player played for as a rookie, giving credit to the team that drafted them in the case of a rookie-year trade):
Assuming that list is correct, then the Celtics have been the about 14th best drafting team in the NBA under Ainge by my analysis (BPM-VORP vs. expectation by draft slot).
I wanted to crowd-source a bit - am I missing anyone off this list, or is there anyone on here who shouldn't be? (This is based on who a given player played for as a rookie, giving credit to the team that drafted them in the case of a rookie-year trade):
Assuming that list is correct, then the Celtics have been the about 14th best drafting team in the NBA under Ainge by my analysis (BPM-VORP vs. expectation by draft slot).
What about picks traded? I mean, he moved talent for picks and then moved those picks and more talent for Allen and KG? Doesn't that matter?
It certainly matters. I think he's a pretty strong GM because of moves like this. My claim was that he's an excellent trader, but only an average judge of talent. Average at drafting and A+ at trading means he's pretty good overall. Not top tier, but in the second level.CaptainLaddie said:
FWIW i feel like when they try to move up or make moves i always feel its the right guy to target. For instance i loved Okafor and Winslow the most and thats who he was going after.
I think hes a good talent eval and great drafter. I bet if you took away the Fab Melo pick (which was obv a huge swing for the fence move when they had back to back picks) his value as a drafter takes a huge leap. And yes im aware thats cherry picking. But theres a legit circumstance behind the cherry pick.
I think hes a good talent eval and great drafter. I bet if you took away the Fab Melo pick (which was obv a huge swing for the fence move when they had back to back picks) his value as a drafter takes a huge leap. And yes im aware thats cherry picking. But theres a legit circumstance behind the cherry pick.
Besides the fact that you can't do that (every GM has "swing for the fences" moves like this, so pulling out Ainge's failed move isn't fair), this also doesn't move the needle much. Melo was the 22nd overall pick - an average return in that spot would have been 1.1 VORP (1.1 wins across 4 seasons). Pulling that out moves Ainge from 14th to 13th only.southshoresoxfan said:
I think it might be interesting to pull the best and worst value picks from each GM.bowiac said:
I don't think it would help Danny any, but it might be a better way of measuring.
Maybe. I don't like screwing with the sample size, as it's already pretty limited. I'm still cleaning up the data for now (just found Royce White was being coded as drafted by the Kings, since he never played for the Rockets for instance).Cellar-Door said:
It would be interesting to see the results with top 10 (or top 5) picks removed. My hypothesis is that a lot of the GM's/teams above Ainge have their averages inflated by hitting on a superstar on with an early pick, something Ainge has not really had the chance to do. I would guess that the spread between actual and expected production is largest among those picks. Not to say there is not some skill in making the right choice with those picks (see Thabeet, Hasheem) but there is a lot of luck in being in the right spot in the right draft.bowiac said:
Swedgin said:
An easier adjustment would be to benchmark the value of each pick through a representative swath of recent history (~20 years or so). I know that 82games has a chart that sort-of does this, and basketball-reference keeps track of the win shares for each player drafted (in the draft table each year). So there are at least two ways to compile that data very quickly. The trick is, as bowiac mentioned, taking trades into account.