NBA December game thread

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
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Let's keep this shit in perspective: Charlotte is the old Cleveland.
 

nattysez

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Holy cow are the Warriors playing like hot garbage tonight.  Toronto is up 19 in the second.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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nattysez said:
Holy cow are the Warriors playing like hot garbage tonight.  Toronto is up 19 in the second.
 
Hot garbage now within five points with five plus minutes to play.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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And the Human Torch hits a three for the Warriors to take a two point lead with ~ 3 mins to play.   They were down 27 at one point in this game.
 

nattysez

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
Hot garbage now within five points with five plus minutes to play.
They are unreal.  Got crushed in the first, played Toronto even for two quarters, and are now completely en fuego at both ends.  And the crowd has been nuts.
 

nattysez

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
And the Human Torch hits a three for the Warriors to take a two point lead with ~ 3 mins to play.   They were down 27 at one point in this game.
 
it was 88-64 with two minutes left in the third.  Ridiculous.
 
They're going to win.  I don't believe it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Dubs outscore Toronto 42-15 in the fourth.  Just insane.  Draymond Green with lockdown defense and rebounding will be the unsung hero of this game.
 

Sam Ray Not

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DeRozan with a shot to put the Raps up 90-64 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd. Misses. Dubs close the game 48-15.
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
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Apparently I fell asleep and the Warriors decided to be fucking amazing. ARCHIVE FASTER, LEAGUE PASS.
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
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So I guess I can basically just watch the second half of this one.
 

Sam Ray Not

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
Pretty much.  Its money.  Draymond Fucking Green.
 

 
 
Seriously, I totally concur. Tom Izzo adored him. He's one of three players to record two triple-doubles in the NCAA tournament -- along with two dudes called Magic and the Big O. He's currently averaging 9.5 points per 36 (on .555 ts%), 7.8 boards 2.4 assists, 2.2 steals, 1.5 blocks. But the best thing about him is that he could give a rat's ass about numbers.
 
"[He] would exchange all of his points, rebounds and assists for wins," Izzo said. "A lot of people say that publicly, but they don't really feel that way. He feels it. There's not a question in my mind that Day-Day is all about winning."
 
 
Coach Jackson has repeatedly echoed those sentiments. His biggest "unsung" contribution has been on D, where he's been an absolute beast: the best kind of 'tweener, strong enough to hold his ground against PFs in the post, but quick enough to lock down guards and wings on the perimeter. The weight he lost over the summer has only made him more dominant on that end.
 
Which I guess brings up the question: what happens when Iguodala returns? Depth is rarely a bad thing, but between Klay, Barnes, Iguodala and Lee, I worry that Green is going to get cruelly squeezed for minutes. Personally, the guy whose value and role I'm beginning to question is David Lee. I love a ton of things about him (good passer and rebounder, efficient scorer, high hoops IQ, e.g.) but he'll always have the fundamental issue of being traditional 4 in the body of a stretch 4. I really wish had learned to hit the three, à la Love, Ryan Anderson, Bosh, et al. He has one freaking 3-pointer in his career! If you're 6-8-ish and can't hit the three *or* defend the rim *or* defend the perimeter, it makes you a bit of a dinosaur in today's NBA, I'm afraid. Green can do pretty much everything Lee does but also defend LeBron and Durant, protect the rim a little, and hit threes. The Warriors were at their most devastating and terrifying in last year's playoffs with Lee out and Green and Barnes playing the stretch 4. The Great Popovich even admitted he was having a tough time matching up with them. And they've only gotten stronger, wiser and more beastly since then.
 
Who in the NBA can match up with a five-headed beast of Curry-Thompson-Iguodala-Barnes-Green, with Bogut grabbing boards and defending the rim? If we could somehow flip Lee (+ Ezeli?) for another athletic rim defender in the Birdman/Larry Sanders mode, I'd do it. How else are we going to get Green the burn he deserves?
 

NWsoxophile

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BigSoxFan said:
And they'll be getting CJ McCollum back for additional depth at some point. Great collection of young talent with Aldridge still amazingly only 28 years-old.
Going into the season I was really looking forward to McCollum, but barring injury I don't see how he will crack the Blazer rotation, which is a very tight one.
 

luckiestman

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SoxFanInPdx said:
This Blazers team is legit. Really legit.
Im more of a celtics than an nba fan so I only really see other teams when they play the celtics, I was really surprised by aldridge (all he did was hit the bottom of the net like he was kevin mchale or something) and a couple of their wing players. Those guys could not miss. I haven't seen enough of them to know if they can defend  (tough to tell when watching celtics if opposition has good D or celtics are inept). My take was they were not good on D but man can they fill it up in a variety of ways
 

Kliq

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Rose is not ruling out a playoff return:http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/10083521/derrick-rose-chicago-bulls-rule-return-playoffs
 
"If I'm healthy and the situation is right, I'm going to be back playing," Rose said Thursday during a news conference in his first public comments since tearing the meniscus in his right knee Nov. 22. "If I'm healthy and my meniscus is fully healed, of course I'll be out there playing. But if it's something totally different and the outcome is not how I would want it to be, there's no need."
 
Is it just me, or is Rose saying that the Bulls should keep trying to win games to get into the playoffs so he can come back at 60% and get swept in the second round, instead of bottoming out, getting a good draft pick and rebuilding for next year and beyond?
 

radsoxfan

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Kliq said:
Rose is not ruling out a playoff return:http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/10083521/derrick-rose-chicago-bulls-rule-return-playoffs
 
"If I'm healthy and the situation is right, I'm going to be back playing," Rose said Thursday during a news conference in his first public comments since tearing the meniscus in his right knee Nov. 22. "If I'm healthy and my meniscus is fully healed, of course I'll be out there playing. But if it's something totally different and the outcome is not how I would want it to be, there's no need."
 
Is it just me, or is Rose saying that the Bulls should keep trying to win games to get into the playoffs so he can come back at 60% and get swept in the second round, instead of bottoming out, getting a good draft pick and rebuilding for next year and beyond?
 
I'm not sure Rose's motivation, but no reason he should be at only 60% by the playoffs. Though of course, he was so rusty when he came back, I suppose we don't really know his new baseline.
 
But the timeline they gave for his meniscus surgery recovery (out for the year) was ridiculously conservative given that it happened in November.  Very reasonable to be back in 3 months at basically full strength from that injury, even if with an attempted repair as opposed to a partial meniscectomy. 
 

Kliq

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radsoxfan said:
 
I'm not sure Rose's motivation, but no reason he should be at only 60% by the playoffs. Though of course, he was so rusty when he came back, I suppose we don't really know his new baseline.
 
But the timeline they gave for his meniscus surgery recovery (out for the year) was ridiculously conservative given that it happened in November.  Very reasonable to be back in 3 months at basically full strength from that injury, even if with an attempted repair as opposed to a partial meniscectomy. 
 
Most people I have heard talk about it say that there is no chance of Rose coming back this year, whatever that is worth.
 
Rose came back this year and only played at about 75%, so I highly doubt, come playoff time, he is going to be back at 2011-Rose level. There is a good chance that he will never be that player ever again. I can't believe that after all the drama last year with Rose coming back, he would start this train back up again.
 

radsoxfan

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Kliq said:
 
Most people I have heard talk about it say that there is no chance of Rose coming back this year, whatever that is worth.
 
Rose came back this year and only played at about 75%, so I highly doubt, come playoff time, he is going to be back at 2011-Rose level. There is a good chance that he will never be that player ever again. I can't believe that after all the drama last year with Rose coming back, he would start this train back up again.
 
Well it's certainly possible Rose takes the rest of the season to recover.  I'm not claiming to know what will happen.  Who knows what the Bulls' or Rose's motivations for the length of his recovery are.  As to what "usually happens"....
 
There are many many varieties of meniscus tears, so there is not a set timeline for the injury.  Sounds like he is having it repaired (as opposed to shaved down), which would put him on the longer end of the spectrum.  Even so, 2-3 months is a pretty conservative estimate for the vast majority of tears, and players often come back sooner than that.  
 
If Rose doesn't come back within 5 months, that's a very atypical recovery. 
 

knucklecup

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RT @WojYahooNBA: With @SpearsNBAYahoo: The Toronto Raptors and Sacramento Kings are discussing a deal centered on Rudy Gay, league sources tell Yahoo.

Doesn't bode well for the bet I just made...
 

Blacken

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Kobe lookin' good early. He's not shooting but he is moving really well and making some brilliant passes.
 

jmm57

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Anthony Bennett went 1-2 tonight, raising his FG% to .237. He had a PER of 0.53 coming into tonight's game.
 

knucklecup

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Go Bulls!
 
Tonight they lose at home to the Bucks scoring only 74 points in the process while Dunleavy had a game you won't see out of him again until the January game thread.
 
This team is as inefficient scoring the basketball as Rudy Gay.
 

knucklecup

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BigSoxFan said:
This draft pick pisses me off and I'm not even a Cavs fan.
 
I'm not going to write a 20 year old off with that much potential but it's impossible to justify not going with the most talented player with the top overall pick in a draft, and Bennett was clearly not that... or was he:
 
"He averaged 16.1 points and 8.1 rebounds a game despite only averaging 27.1 minutes a game. He shot 53.3% from the field overall and 37.5% from 3-point range. He was extremely efficient in college, averaging a PER of 28.3"
 
 
I wonder how much PER and his scoring efficiency factored into Cleveland's decision to draft him over Oladipo.  As a freshman, Oladipo had a PER in the low 20's, Bennett outperformed that figure as a freshman. 
 
Also, of the top 25 college players in PER rankings from last season, the only legit first round caliber talent is Olynyk with the highest in the country at 36.2, Nate Wolters at 32.0, Cody Zeller at 29.8, Oladipo at 28.9, and Bennett at 28.3. 
 
They had already determined that Zeller was limited and didn't have the upside that either Oladipo or Bennett presented, and Olynyk and Wolters were never going to be considered as lottery talent despite their efficiency ratings in college.
 
So I'm shocked that so many people here would criticize this move so soon given that, by all accounts, the statistics make a compelling argument for drafting Bennett over Oladipo.
 
To me, it came off as a move where Cleveland thought they were the smartest person in the room and everybody else was scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened.
 

ishmael

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Tony C said:
I know it's just rustiness, but the beauty was not just that Kobe was bad but that he looked tentative. Beautiful thing to see that crazy, cocky sucker look a bit scared -- the crazy uncle, as Grantland puts it: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/85082/kobe-comes-back-and-the-nbas-crazy-uncle-is-home-again
I for one, love seeing Kobe use the Lakers regular season as his own personal pre-season. Next 8 games are @OKC, @CHA, @ATL, @MEM, MIN, @GSW, @PHX, and home on Christmas day to host the Heat. 
 

NYCSox

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knucklecup said:
Go Bulls!
 
Tonight they lose at home to the Bucks scoring only 74 points in the process while Dunleavy had a game you won't see out of him again until the January game thread.
 
This team is as inefficient scoring the basketball as Rudy Gay.
 
You do realize that they played without Rose, Butler, Deng and Noah right?
 

Sprowl

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If you wonder where your post went, I've been breaking out the Bosh and Warriors discussions.
 
***
 
Brooklyn beat the Celtics, then the LA Clippers beat the Celtics. Now Brooklyn hosts the Clippers.
 
Garnett and Pierce look old, so old.
 

Sprowl

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But Andray Blatche had one of his teaser games, and Pierce looks comfortable as point forward and spot-up 3.
 

The X Man Cometh

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knucklecup said:
 
I'm not going to write a 20 year old off with that much potential but it's impossible to justify not going with the most talented player with the top overall pick in a draft, and Bennett was clearly not that... or was he:
 
 
I wonder how much PER and his scoring efficiency factored into Cleveland's decision to draft him over Oladipo.  As a freshman, Oladipo had a PER in the low 20's, Bennett outperformed that figure as a freshman. 
 
Also, of the top 25 college players in PER rankings from last season, the only legit first round caliber talent is Olynyk with the highest in the country at 36.2, Nate Wolters at 32.0, Cody Zeller at 29.8, Oladipo at 28.9, and Bennett at 28.3. 
 
They had already determined that Zeller was limited and didn't have the upside that either Oladipo or Bennett presented, and Olynyk and Wolters were never going to be considered as lottery talent despite their efficiency ratings in college.
 
So I'm shocked that so many people here would criticize this move so soon given that, by all accounts, the statistics make a compelling argument for drafting Bennett over Oladipo.
 
To me, it came off as a move where Cleveland thought they were the smartest person in the room and everybody else was scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened.
 
Ever watch a friend make in a rambling, mindless, drunken attempt to get back with an Ex-girlfriend?

The last 3 years of Cavaliers decisions are basically that.
 

Cellar-Door

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knucklecup said:
 
I'm not going to write a 20 year old off with that much potential but it's impossible to justify not going with the most talented player with the top overall pick in a draft, and Bennett was clearly not that... or was he:
 
 
I wonder how much PER and his scoring efficiency factored into Cleveland's decision to draft him over Oladipo.  As a freshman, Oladipo had a PER in the low 20's, Bennett outperformed that figure as a freshman. 
 
Also, of the top 25 college players in PER rankings from last season, the only legit first round caliber talent is Olynyk with the highest in the country at 36.2, Nate Wolters at 32.0, Cody Zeller at 29.8, Oladipo at 28.9, and Bennett at 28.3. 
 
They had already determined that Zeller was limited and didn't have the upside that either Oladipo or Bennett presented, and Olynyk and Wolters were never going to be considered as lottery talent despite their efficiency ratings in college.
 
So I'm shocked that so many people here would criticize this move so soon given that, by all accounts, the statistics make a compelling argument for drafting Bennett over Oladipo.
 
To me, it came off as a move where Cleveland thought they were the smartest person in the room and everybody else was scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened.
PER isn't a particularly good evaluation tool, particularly for College players.
 

radsoxfan

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knucklecup said:
 
I'm not going to write a 20 year old off with that much potential but it's impossible to justify not going with the most talented player with the top overall pick in a draft, and Bennett was clearly not that... or was he:
 
 
I wonder how much PER and his scoring efficiency factored into Cleveland's decision to draft him over Oladipo.  As a freshman, Oladipo had a PER in the low 20's, Bennett outperformed that figure as a freshman. 
 
Also, of the top 25 college players in PER rankings from last season, the only legit first round caliber talent is Olynyk with the highest in the country at 36.2, Nate Wolters at 32.0, Cody Zeller at 29.8, Oladipo at 28.9, and Bennett at 28.3. 
 
They had already determined that Zeller was limited and didn't have the upside that either Oladipo or Bennett presented, and Olynyk and Wolters were never going to be considered as lottery talent despite their efficiency ratings in college.
 
So I'm shocked that so many people here would criticize this move so soon given that, by all accounts, the statistics make a compelling argument for drafting Bennett over Oladipo.
 
To me, it came off as a move where Cleveland thought they were the smartest person in the room and everybody else was scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened.
 
Well first of all, Olynyk was picked in the lottery.....
 
Also, college PER has very very limited utility.  The competition differences make any sort of all-encompassing efficiency number pretty useless when comparing players.  If the Cavs picked Bennett because of his PER, they are dumber than I thought (and I think they're quite dumb).
 

Devizier

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One thing about Oladipo is the guy is a turnover machine (TO% of 21, which means he turns the ball over in over one of five possessions).
 
Only two types of players tend to have turnover rates that high; true point guards, who attempt a lot of passes (assists don't count as possessions in the calculation), and bigs.
 
There really haven't been many players like Oladipo since the 70's.
 

Devizier

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Wade's a bad comp for Oladipo.
 
For one, his highest TO% was 17, during his rookie season.
 
For another, his career AST% is roughly 30, which makes him a point guard in effect, if not in style.
 

Kliq

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BigSoxFan said:
Even if you reject the Wade comparison (I only made it to show that non-PGs and bigs can have high TOs), the bottom line is that Oladipo projects to be a much better play over the course of his career than a 6'7 SF/PF. Bennett was simply a terrible pick by Cleveland.
 
It really goes back to their decision to draft Waiters. They took a SG with a high pick, and didn't think they needed another one so they took Bennett (even though they have roughly 40,000 PFs on their roster). Cleveland is a team that sucks at drafting players. If they had even the slightest clue, they should have taken Oladipo this year and Drummond last year. Imagine how much brighter their future would be if they took those guys?