Nate Solder to the Giants

[StuckOnYouk]

It’s really strange, agreed. The Giants are nowhere close to a good team even with the additions. Eli is a mediocre at best QB, they have no running game, the defense is still highly questionable and the coaching staff unproven. Overpaying by a lot for Solder just seems a bad move for this team, but they have made a ton of them since winning their last super bowl.

Gettleman is doing what Jerry Reese ignored for years - improving the OL even if it means overpaying for Solder. If he ends up taking Barkley at the 2 spot this offense is much better than 2017 by adding Solder, Barkley, a healthy OBJ and having Engram going into his 2nd year.
As for defense, we'll see. They're possibly transitioning to a 3-4 with the addition of Arizona's D-coordinator, they have Collins in the back, Harrison in the front and a draft in front of them with high picks in each round.
I'm not saying they're going out and winning a super bowl next year but they certainly could be a playoff team when the smoke clears.

 

[steveluck7]

Solder just said the Pats offered him the same money, but he went to the Giants because his wife is a Giants fan. I’m very surprised they offered him that much.

Do you have the specific link to that quote? It's been tossed around twitter but no one has produced a quote with him saying those exact words. The closest anyone has posted is referenced here in this tweet from Kevin Duffy (retweeted by Christopher Price):

Clarification on the Solder story. Here's his full quote from conference call with Giants media. Said money was "somewhat equal" between three teams. Didn't name those teams.

 

[jsinger121]

Do you have the specific link to that quote? It's been tossed around twitter but no one has produced a quote with him saying those exact words. The closest anyone has posted is referenced here in this tweet from Kevin Duffy (retweeted by Christopher Price):

Clarification on the Solder story. Here's his full quote from conference call with Giants media. Said money was "somewhat equal" between three teams. Didn't name those teams.

My guess is those 3 teams were NY Giants (who got him), Cleveland Browns and Houston Texans.

 

[Super Nomario]

Gettleman is doing what Jerry Reese ignored for years - improving the OL even if it means overpaying for Solder. If he ends up taking Barkley at the 2 spot this offense is much better than 2017 by adding Solder, Barkley, a healthy OBJ and having Engram going into his 2nd year.

Reese didn't ignore the OL. Flowers was a top-10 pick, Pugh was a first-rounder, Richburg was a second. They gave pretty big money to Will Beatty and Geoff Schwartz, who both got hurt. They invested in OL, but they sucked anyway.

 

[Van Everyman]

Do you have the specific link to that quote? It's been tossed around twitter but no one has produced a quote with him saying those exact words. The closest anyone has posted is referenced here in this tweet from Kevin Duffy (retweeted by Christopher Price):

Clarification on the Solder story. Here's his full quote from conference call with Giants media. Said money was "somewhat equal" between three teams. Didn't name those teams.

So, no clarification as to whether the Pats were or weren't in on him (i.e., "Offering the same money")?

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Solder just said the Pats offered him the same money, but he went to the Giants because his wife is a Giants fan. I’m very surprised they offered him that much.

The old Mark Teixeira excuse, amirite?

 

[steveluck7]

This nesn article* clarifies it a bit but still doesn't provide 100% clarity. basically, the woman who reported Solder saying the patriots offered comparable money walked it back a bit saying that Solder's response (quoted in my post above) was in response to a question about the Patriots

*it's not even worth posting quotes from the article as it's essentially a bunch of tweets strung together

 

[dcmissle]

I find the “my wife is a Giants fan” thing the ultimate tail wagging dog.

The Giants’ direction is interesting. If you want a QB, you’d think this is the year for them given the class and the #2 overall pick. And you can make a solid case for taking a step back and rebuilding with Wentz still on a rookie deal. Get your QB, build the team, and when the Eagles have to make Wentz the highest our player in the League, you’re on equal footing in terms of resources.

They are going in the opposite direction. Barkley isn’t likely to last beyond 2 overall.

 

[Bergs]

This is a nice Players Trib piece by Nate.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nate-solder-patriots-giants-thank-you

 

[SMU_Sox]

This is a nice Players Trib piece by Nate.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nate-solder-patriots-giants-thank-you

Thank you for posting that. Incredibly emotionally powerful goodbye. I don't know what else to say other than it got dusty in here very quickly.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I concur. Nice effort from Big Nate.

 

[tims4wins]

Whatever it is he is looking for in NY, I hope he finds it. It sure won't be winning, but he made it pretty clear that winning isn't everything.

 

[BaseballJones]

That was amazing to read. Much, much respect for Solder. I can't imagine what he's going through, but I'm very happy that the Patriots - despite being a hard place to be sometimes - really stepped up and came alongside him. How people can read that and not think that the Patriots actually care about people is mind-boggling. Belichick kicks people out of meetings for not making them on time due to massive blizzards, sure. But when it comes to real life stuff like this, he and McDaniels and Dante and Kraft were all in with Solder. Miss a meeting if you have to. Skip practice. Do what you gotta do. Take care of your kid. How can you not want to play for people who are with you like that?

I thought that piece reflected really well both on Solder and the Patriots.

 

[tims4wins]

I agree with all of that, but at the end of the day I really don't understand why he left aside from maxing out the $$. I hope all goes well for him and he is happy with the decision.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Whatever it is he is looking for in NY, I hope he finds it. It sure won't be winning, but he made it pretty clear that winning isn't everything.

People could have said the same thing about Philly’s offseason acquisitions last year. No reason why Giants couldn’t be a playoff team this year.

 

[Shelterdog]

I agree with all of that, but at the end of the day I really don't understand why he left aside from maxing out the $$. I hope all goes well for him and he is happy with the decision.

Maximizing $ on what's probably his last chance to make a ginormous amount money in his life isn't a bad idea. But the giants are also traditionally a pretty good franchise and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them in the playoffs a few times when Solder is there; it's easy to forget when you have Brady or Manning or Rogers but teams without truly elite quarterback teams go from winners to losers and vice versa all the time.

 

[tims4wins]

Like I said I hope it works out for him there (although I will never root for that team to make the playoffs). Just seems like he is leaving a great situation both on and off the field for... money? When he has already made how much and will make how much more?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Like I said I hope it works out for him there (although I will never root for that team to make the playoffs). Just seems like he is leaving a great situation both on and off the field for... money? When he has already made how much and will make how much more?

Not saying this is the reason but sometimes people just need/want change after being in one spot for a while.

 

[kenneycb]

Like I said I hope it works out for him there (although I will never root for that team to make the playoffs). Just seems like he is leaving a great situation both on and off the field for... money? When he has already made how much and will make how much more?

New York offered the best combination of money and living situation given the issues with his son. I would imagine the living situation and hospital access is fairly similar between NYC and Boston, so money is the determinant, which makes him human. I never understand the "He's already made so much money so he should take a hometown discount!" argument. Make as much money as you can in the limited window you have as a viable football player.

 

[DJnVa]

How people can read that and not think that the Patriots actually care about people is mind-boggling.

Here's why--Yahoo Sports has an article about this and the headline is "Patriots were 'cold', but incredibly supportive of son."

I mean, I get why Solder said that, but the thrust of the article is the Patriots telling him "Whatever you need, you do" and they start with "Patriots were cold".

 

[tims4wins]

New York offered the best combination of money and living situation given the issues with his son. I would imagine the living situation and hospital access is fairly similar between NYC and Boston, so money is the determinant, which makes him human. I never understand the "He's already made so much money so he should take a hometown discount!" argument. Make as much money as you can in the limited window you have as a viable football player.

I am fully supportive of maxing out career earnings for players. Just in this particular instance, how the Patriots have handled the situation with his son, I am kind of surprised that he didn't choose to stay in that comfort zone. All else equal take the money for sure. Just doesn't appear as though all else is equal here, but I hope for his sake and his family's sake that the Maras treat him as well as the Krafts did, and BB.

 

[lexrageorge]

I would tend to believe the "coldness" is true of just about any NFL franchise. Coaches will work with players on the professional level first and foremost, because those same coaches have to make decisions on who plays and when, and who gets cut. Football is the most brutal of the major sports leagues because most contracts aren't guaranteed, so just about everyone is a candidate to be cut at some point. It may feel different in New England, however, but noone here really knows.

It's hard to understand why he would leave New England after reading that article. But $35M guaranteed for someone who basically admitted he never had money to travel anywhere before joining the NFL is not something to sneeze at either. That's about what he's earned over his entire career so far, and so I can see him deciding that this one last contract will be enough to put his family in great shape for a very long time.

Also, not sure what his health insurance situation is after football. But chemo treatments such as the one his son are going through could very well cost tens of thousands of dollars per month.

 

[edmunddantes]

He also just might want a situation where the stress level isn't quite as high, and he can still earn the money. I think he's had enough of it with the way things are going with his son he just knows he can't keep up the level of attention and always on attitude the Patriots demand. He's been doing it for a long time, and he's done it at a high level.

Now, he can get his money, he can ease off a bit (not that he will get lazy or anything just not pegged at 100% every second of every moment), but not have that same feeling of every day, every snap, every second, he's competing for his job. The mental energy it must take to always be on with the Pats must be exhausting coupled with the mental energy of keeping up with all the stuff with the cancer with his kid.

I don't begrudge him at all.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Great read. I don't believe in God but that article almost makes me wish I did in terms of the role Nate's faith has played in helping him be what he needs to be for his son.

Best of luck to him in New York (although I still hope the Giants lose every game they play).

 

[joe dokes]

New York offered the best combination of money and living situation given the issues with his son. I would imagine the living situation and hospital access is fairly similar between NYC and Boston, so money is the determinant, which makes him human. I never understand the "He's already made so much money so he should take a hometown discount!" argument. Make as much money as you can in the limited window you have as a viable football player.

I agree with this. Especially in football.

He's been to the CCG every year he's played. There could also be some professional satisfaction in making the journey again to get there or beyond in a new place.

 

[lexrageorge]

He also just might want a situation where the stress level isn't quite as high, and he can still earn the money. I think he's had enough of it with the way things are going with his son he just knows he can't keep up the level of attention and always on attitude the Patriots demand. He's been doing it for a long time, and he's done it at a high level.

Now, he can get his money, he can ease off a bit (not that he will get lazy or anything just not pegged at 100% every second of every moment), but not have that same feeling of every day, every snap, every second, he's competing for his job. The mental energy it must take to always be on with the Pats must be exhausting coupled with the mental energy of keeping up with all the stuff with the cancer with his kid.

I don't begrudge him at all.

The article made a big point about refuting the fact that Solder was expected to be "always on" while dealing with this son's illness. They allowed him to miss meetings and practices as he needed.

 

[edmunddantes]

The article made a big point about refuting the fact that Solder was expected to be "always on" while dealing with this son's illness. They allowed him to miss meetings and practices as he needed.

Not what I'm talking about. I got that part.

The idea of the Patriots that there are no sacred cows. The way they look at you changes so quickly from moment to moment to how you most recently performed (be it a missed question, a bad rep, etc) is all in the piece too. You are always on whenever you are there. It takes a huge amount of mental energy.

I'm not saying the Pats were bad at how he dealt with his son at all.

 

[loshjott]

I did not know the details of his son's cancer and certainly didn't know the tumors had reappeared. Very sad. Best of luck to the Solders.

 

[bakahump]

I don’t begrudge him but many of the responses seem to ignore that the patriots were going to pay him a ginormous sum as well. So the “deciding factor” basically came downtown 10 or 20 million, yeah a lot to us, but not really life changing money to someone who has made 35 and would have made another 40. Especially when you consider the “human” aspect. Does an extra 30 million actually do anything for Nate and his kids? Both generations will never have to work or even have to have a budget. I guess you could say this contract setup his grand children and great grand children. And I see the value in that. But let’s not pretend this made a difference to anyone currently living.

 

[kenneycb]

Bullshit. A difference in $1 million is a substantial sum. Claiming there is not a great difference between $10 and $20 million and an extra $30 million is meaningless because rich people amirite is ludicrous. Get paid. I never understand why people implicitly take the owners side in this debate but the players in every other.

 

[dcmissle]

It’s always amusing to listen in when people are discussing other people’s money. Especially when you’re talking about a coldly efficient team that would not pause to request a pay cut, or to cut your ass, when in their eyes you no longer justify your paycheck.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

It would be insane to turn down an extra $10 to $20 mm.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I don’t begrudge him but many of the responses seem to ignore that the patriots were going to pay him a ginormous sum as well. So the “deciding factor” basically came downtown 10 or 20 million, yeah a lot to us, but not really life changing money to someone who has made 35 and would have made another 40. Especially when you consider the “human” aspect. Does an extra 30 million actually do anything for Nate and his kids? Both generations will never have to work or even have to have a budget. I guess you could say this contract setup his grand children and great grand children. And I see the value in that. But let’s not pretend this made a difference to anyone currently living.

WTF is the "human" aspect?

 

[dcmissle]

WTF is the "human" aspect?

It’s what makes US feel better as fans of a well run team. Eff the player.

Here’s is a recent version of how business is done, from Danny Amendola, without rancor.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/14/danny-amendola-patriots-offer-didnt-even-come-close-to-dolphins-offer/

Short version. I took pay cuts to play for Bill. I wanted him to come with a reasonable offer. Pats did not come close.

Now that’s fine. I’m pleased the team is run this way. All I ask is to spare me pissing on the player on his way out of town when he grabs a deal good for himself. The Patriots don’t do that; that is The Big Show level bullshit. (nah’ he’s not a winna ... only into it for the money)

 

[Harry Hooper]

ESPN deserves massive helpings of scorn and derision here, but I'd argue for the link for the Amendola stuff to be to Reiss and ESPN, and not to a PFT quick take on someone else''s work.

I wish Amendola well, but it's hard to imagine his career will go the additional 3-4 years that he says he's aiming for.

 

[lexrageorge]

Solder was not going to get $35M guaranteed from the Patriots. Wasn't gonna happen. I don't think anyone on this forum can judge a guy for not leaving $10M or more on the table to stay with the Pats. Noone here knows what Solder's personal situation is; the "he's already made enough money" argument is simply not valid.

 

[joe dokes]

I wish Amendola well, but it's hard to imagine his career will go the additional 3-4 years that he says he's aiming for.

It might.....if he plays less than half of snaps on offense.

 

[Reverend]

Here's why--Yahoo Sports has an article about this and the headline is "Patriots were 'cold', but incredibly supportive of son."

I mean, I get why Solder said that, but the thrust of the article is the Patriots telling him "Whatever you need, you do" and they start with "Patriots were cold".

That's hilarious.

"They made their statements with the cold, calculating rationality and pragmatism of a doctor discussing a dangerous, costly, but potentially life saving regimen..."

That might be like half the media coverage of Belichick in a nutshell.

 

[Reverend]

It’s always amusing to listen in when people are discussing other people’s money. Especially when you’re talking about a coldly efficient team that would not pause to request a pay cut, or to cut your ass, when in their eyes you no longer justify your paycheck.

And they literally were willing to talk with him about just this and, in fact, did so.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I don’t begrudge him but many of the responses seem to ignore that the patriots were going to pay him a ginormous sum as well. So the “deciding factor” basically came downtown 10 or 20 million, yeah a lot to us, but not really life changing money to someone who has made 35 and would have made another 40. Especially when you consider the “human” aspect. Does an extra 30 million actually do anything for Nate and his kids? Both generations will never have to work or even have to have a budget. I guess you could say this contract setup his grand children and great grand children. And I see the value in that. But let’s not pretend this made a difference to anyone currently living.

This was the way I felt about free agents in professional sports when I was 12 years old.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

I think it's interesting that for both Amendola and Solder, and to a lesser extent Butler (and allegedly Gronk), it's starting to come out that playing for the Patriots is hard/not fun/demeaning. Now these are all pretty high-character guys and each of them has described their time in New England as worth it... but even that level of information strikes me as something that didn't used to be out there so much.

 

[Reverend]

This was the way I felt about free agents in professional sports when I was 12 years old.

Indeed—fear is not an accurate accountant. And the guy’s kid has cancer.

So he’s gonna do all he can do. And more.

This is not mysterious.

 

[Reverend]

I think it's interesting that for both Amendola and Solder, and to a lesser extent Butler (and allegedly Gronk), it's starting to come out that playing for the Patriots is hard/not fun/demeaning. Now these are all pretty high-character guys and each of them has described their time in New England as worth it... but even that level of information strikes me as something that didn't used to be out there so much.

I think it’s basically the navy.

 

[Super Nomario]

I think it's interesting that for both Amendola and Solder, and to a lesser extent Butler (and allegedly Gronk), it's starting to come out that playing for the Patriots is hard/not fun/demeaning. Now these are all pretty high-character guys and each of them has described their time in New England as worth it... but even that level of information strikes me as something that didn't used to be out there so much.

I don't think there's any new information, it is just being presented differently because Belichick is coming off the biggest coaching turd of his career. His penchant for sarcasm as an instructional tool is well-documented. We heard a lot after last year's Super Bowl how the Patriots had more juice than the Falcons because they did grueling hill sprints. When you do stuff like that and you get results, it gets presented a certain way; when the results aren't there, it gets presented differently. I don't think anything has changed, though.

 

[BaseballJones]

In order to be the greatest, you have to put in the kind of work that others simply are not willing to do. When the talent is comparable, it's the work that usually makes the difference. I've no doubt that it's probably HARDER to play for the Patriots than for any other franchise. And it's that fact that is probably a leading reason why the Patriots don't only win more Super Bowls, but are ALWAYS an elite team. If you want to be on that kind of team, you've got to be willing to put in that kind of effort. It's not fun. Doing hills is not fun. Doing stadiums is not fun. Doing extra work in the weight room or film room or whatever is not fun.

Winning is a helluva lot of fun though. And when you win, it's all worth it. When you don't, it's a lot less fun.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

In order to be the greatest, you have to put in the kind of work that others simply are not willing to do. When the talent is comparable, it's the work that usually makes the difference. I've no doubt that it's probably HARDER to play for the Patriots than for any other franchise. And it's that fact that is probably a leading reason why the Patriots don't only win more Super Bowls, but are ALWAYS an elite team. If you want to be on that kind of team, you've got to be willing to put in that kind of effort. It's not fun. Doing hills is not fun. Doing stadiums is not fun. Doing extra work in the weight room or film room or whatever is not fun.

Winning is a helluva lot of fun though. And when you win, it's all worth it. When you don't, it's a lot less fun.

Yup. Watch any football life or similar thing about Bill Walsh. It wasn't good enough for Montana to hit a guy in stride with a pass. He was supposed to put it right at his hands, not his waist, not head high, right at hand level as he was running and they'd practice over and over till that's how the play was coming out. And Walsh was ruthless. He pushed Montana out the door and everyone else, too. Look at the recollections of players playing for every great coach. Jerry Kramer said Lombardi treated the Packers like dogs. The 70's Cowboys players all bitch about how Landry wasn't a nice guy to anyone. Parcells had a superficial gloss of nice guy but was just as ruthless in working the team hard in practice so that the games weren't any step up in intensity or difficulty.

I bet Jerry Glanville was more fun to play for but his teams never won anything.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yep. And make no mistake, on a short-term basis, depending on how things break (guys have career years, injuries to other teams, etc.), a more "fun" environment can lead to a championship. But you cannot build a consistent winner like the teams you just mentioned without going over the top in terms of effort and work. Nobody has ever won in the NFL like the Bill Belichick New England Patriots. Nobody. Not this much, not for this sustained period of time, not this number of championship and championship appearances. Never in the history of the league has a franchise done what New England has. So if you want to have fun and maybe win a championship, sure, go play for another team. That's awesome, more power to you. But if you want to play for the greatest coach and organization in NFL history, with the greatest chance to win year-in and year-out, you play for the Patriots and put in the extra effort, even if it's not quite as much "fun" along the way.

 

[Shelterdog]

I don't think there's any new information, it is just being presented differently because Belichick is coming off the biggest coaching turd of his career. His penchant for sarcasm as an instructional tool is well-documented. We heard a lot after last year's Super Bowl how the Patriots had more juice than the Falcons because they did grueling hill sprints. When you do stuff like that and you get results, it gets presented a certain way; when the results aren't there, it gets presented differently. I don't think anything has changed, though.

It might also be that when you have a core of guys (I'm thinking Brady/Edelman/Amendola and Gronk) who have been in the program a long time, who've had some success, who view themselves to be sufficiently self motivated that maybe the sarcasm and toughness gets old (especially as they mature as players and people).

 

[tims4wins]

Yep. And make no mistake, on a short-term basis, depending on how things break (guys have career years, injuries to other teams, etc.), a more "fun" environment can lead to a championship. But you cannot build a consistent winner like the teams you just mentioned without going over the top in terms of effort and work. Nobody has ever won in the NFL like the Bill Belichick New England Patriots. Nobody. Not this much, not for this sustained period of time, not this number of championship and championship appearances. Never in the history of the league has a franchise done what New England has. So if you want to have fun and maybe win a championship, sure, go play for another team. That's awesome, more power to you. But if you want to play for the greatest coach and organization in NFL history, with the greatest chance to win year-in and year-out, you play for the Patriots and put in the extra effort, even if it's not quite as much "fun" along the way.

I agree with all this. Philly won and they had more fun. Seattle won and they had more fun. Both teams have only won once. Let's see if they can win again.

 

[tims4wins]

Named the 3rd worst FA signing in this article

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25760941/best-worst-2018-nfl-free-agent-signings