My wife needs a new desktop computer - what one?

Couperin47 · Sep 30, 2014

Innocent question, it gets complicated:

1. going to be difficult to buy anything prebuilt that doesn't have Win8.. sounds like you have not tried Classic Shell http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/ . It's free, it will take you a while to configure it the first time, after that the differences from 7 or even XP are mostly trivial and the angst goes away... really.

2. The 20 " monitor has what inputs ? Understand 20" 5 yr old monitors are considered junk today, it's hard to even find monitors that small... everything is around 23" and can be had for just over $100 if you don't give a shit about quality. You need to find a prebuilt that has 2 video outs, generally you will find hdmi + dvi...the vga is useless unless your 20" is a vga monitor, which I assume isn't true since gaming on that would be a truly archaic experience.

3. Nobody bundles full MS apps anymore though they are available when custom building from Dell, etc, generally at blah prices you can easily match at Newegg, etc.

4. Buying anything lower than an Intel i5 quad processor running at at least 2.6 Ghz (and no AMD cpus) is simply buying a desktop with 5 year old performance.

5 Building a machine to give you exactly what you want is trivial since almost every motherboard includes the features you need, finding a prebuilt that does this will not be so easy.

Harry Hooper · Sep 30, 2014

This Dell XPS 8700 for $567 might be a good starting point if you're up for the Classic Shell install. You can order new PCs from Dell Small Business with Windows 7, but not this particular deal.

Couperin47 · Sep 30, 2014

Harry Hooper said:
This Dell XPS 8700 for $567 might be a good starting point if you're up for the Classic Shell install. You can order new PCs from Dell Small Business with Windows 7, but not this particular deal.

That will work, or he can do any of the $370-$420 boxes I listed in the last week, but then add a $20-40 video card into the one pci-x slot each has... basically to get a pair of video outs he's going to have to get something with or add a separate video card...all the basic prebuilt machines have vga + one other option....

Harry Hooper · Sep 30, 2014

That Dell comes with a NVIDIA GeForce GT 635 1GB DDR3 on a separate video card. I am guessing Dell ships it with a disabled integrated graphics controller that can be turned on in the BIOS.

Harry Hooper · Sep 30, 2014

To get into BIOS/System Setup, you press a key such as "F2" when you turn on the computer. Inside the system setup screens there will be one for something like onboard video or integrated graphics adapter. It will be set to "disabled," but you can change it to "enabled" and reboot the PC. But never mind all that...

According to the GeForce website, it looks like the 635 in the Dell will have one of each type of monitor connector and can drive 2 monitors at once. It's worth checking with Dell on this, though, to make sure what they're shipping.

Couperin47 · Sep 30, 2014

Koufax said:
I am going to try to install Classic Shell on my computer. that sounds like something I can manage.

You guys have lost me on the video card. How can you turn on a disabled graphics controller?

It has been a long time since I have seen a computer that can't handle two monitors. Are you suggesting that I might inadvertently order one?

Gaming is not part of our life, but I'd like decent monitors. You can shame me into buying 23" monitors for my wife. She's a pain in the ass, but she's all I've got.

When you install Classic Shell, you will get to first pick a basic look: you can pick either a Win 7 or and XT type setup for StartMenu etc. Under advanced settings you will find almost 25 tabs filled with things you can customize. Don't get intimidated, each is described well and you'll soon realize they give you sensible options to cover almost every annoyance about the way the interface looks/works. Once you wade thru it all (and you only have to do this once) you'll be very comfortable.

To turn on or off disabled graphics (that would be any video out that's NOT clearly on a separate video card on the rear,) you need to get into the BIOS setup...usually this is by hitting F1 or Del as the machine is booting. Any desktop with a separate video card will give you the 2 outputs you need, leaving the built-in graphics on or off won't really matter.

Yes all the compact desktops I listed this week and most from the major makers will only have vga and one other output (hdmi, or dvi or displayport), since the vga output is useless to drive any modern monitor at the definitions we commonly use now (1900 x 1080), without adding a separate card, these cannot actually support 2 monitors.

New monitors don't need to cost a fortune and dual setups are something I can't live without anymore. Basics: Gloss screens are clearest for gaming but more reflections and lighting can get tricky, matte screens are best for text and general business work. TN monitors are a bit 'faster' for games, but angles are reduced (moving your head off axis colors go funny pretty quickly). IPS monitors have better angles, a bit of 'glow'...don't go dead black and always cost a bit more.

with hdmi and dvi inexpensive passive cables can transform each into the other to match monitor, though most monitors today will have both.

If you consider something like the desktops I mentioned this week, Newegg has easily 50 video cards ranging from $20 to $50 which it would take 2 mins to plug in and turn these desktops into what you need.

AlNipper49 · Sep 30, 2014

Koufax said:
Just so I understand, installing a vide card involves opening the box and plugging the card into a slot, yes? I've done that sort of thing years ago, but not recently.

Yup, and to make it simple there is probably only one place that it'll fit

Couperin47 · Sep 30, 2014

Koufax said:
Just so I understand, installing a vide card involves opening the box and plugging the card into a slot, yes? I've done that sort of thing years ago, but not recently.

You open the box, remove the 1 screw from the back of the case at the slot, insert the card, replace the screw at the bracket. Finally install the drivers...generally instead of those on the cd provided it's better to go to the card maker's site and download the latest drivers.

Something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102933 for $33 after rebate is reasonable.

SumnerH · Sep 30, 2014

Couperin47 said:
You open the box, remove the 1 screw from the back of the case at the slot, insert the card, replace the screw at the bracket. Finally install the drivers...generally instead of those on the cd provided it's better to go to the card maker's site and download the latest drivers.

Something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102933 for $33 after rebate is reasonable.

Higher end cards may also need a power hookup for fans and stuff. I assume this card doesn't need that, and you are probably better off with the simpler option anyway.

Couperin47 · Sep 30, 2014

SumnerH said:
Higher end cards may also need a power hookup for fans and stuff. I assume this card doesn't need that, and you are probably better off with the simpler option anyway.

exactly, in my reviews of the desktops earlier this week i specifically pointed out you can only use low end cards that require no direct power connection... in fact the one above is low profile and passively cooled and only PCI 2.1 (PCI 3.0 cards start at around $70 and most of these boxes don't have a PCI 3 slot anyway...)

derekson · Sep 30, 2014

Don't most cases nowadays just have clips for PCI cards instead of screws?

SumnerH · Sep 30, 2014

derekson said:
Don't most cases nowadays just have clips for PCI cards instead of screws?

Yes.

Harry Hooper · Sep 30, 2014

There's this Lenovo at TigerDirect for $580 w/Windows 7 Home Premium. I think there's a $15 off coupon that's good until midnight out there.

Edit: Coupon details

jercra · Oct 1, 2014

Koufax said:
She's running a Dell that used to be my primary PC. It's probably 4 or 5 years old and it has gotten slow. I've tried the obvious steps short of reformatting the hard drive, which might do the job but it scares me. I think it might simply be time to buy a new machine and move one.

Probably the most taxing work that she demands of the machine is running Dragon. Other than that, it is web-surfing, word processing and email. She has a 20" monitor and want to add a second monitor. She is used to Windows 7. I have Windows 8 and hate it. I don't want to inflict it on her.

Any recommendations as to what to buy? Something with Word and Excel preloaded would be a plus.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions that you may have.

Do you know anything about the specs in the current PC? It may be that something really simple and cheap like a memory boost and an SSD drive will revive the performance to better than new.

If you still would rather go new make sure to look on the Lenovo Outlet store. There are often great deals to be found.

Marceline · Oct 1, 2014

Koufax said:
Well the coupon for the dell has expired.

Looking at the other options, it looks like the Gateway i5-4440 with the Radeon video card would be a good way to go.

What 23" monitor(s) would make sense for someone who does no gaming, almost no video - almost 100% word processing, email and other text-based work?

For word processing/email type stuff, it's really worth it to spend a little extra to get something with a 16:10 screen.
I use one of these in my home office and it's a great monitor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260047

The 16:9 screens are cheaper but it's really no comparison for doing any serious text based work.

Couperin47 · Oct 1, 2014

I'm a 24" 16:10 bigot myself, though I prefer the HP Z24i to the panel roulette that Dell subjects you to with the U2412M (at least 3 firmware versions using 2 different panels, and they differ considerably). That being said not everyone wants to blow $600+ on a pair of monitors. Something like this Asus http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DWITHI/?tag=extension-kb-20 allows you to do decent dual monitors for a bit more than half that. It covers the basics: IPS, matte screen LED. The stand is your very basic tilt-only, but you can VESA mount and power supply is internal. Reviews are better than average.

If you do the Gateway, it actually has a 2nd video out: the Displayport. The problem is Displayport input only appears on more expensive monitors... like the 16:10 ones we're discussing, the good news is that passive Displayport to HDMI or DVI cables are easily available in the $10-20 range, the only downside to these is that, often, while the video is perfect, the ability of the computer to put the monitor to sleep is lost.... it depends on the specific products at both ends, you're more likely to have the computer successfully put the monitor to sleep if you do Displayport to DVI.

Marceline · Oct 1, 2014

Couperin47 said:
I'm a 24" 16:10 bigot myself, though I prefer the HP Z24i to the panel roulette that Dell subjects you to with the U2412M (at least 3 firmware versions using 2 different panels, and they differ considerably). That being said not everyone wants to blow $600+ on a pair of monitors.

She may find that in moving from an older 20" monitor to a 24" 16:10 screen, she doesn't even need 2 monitors. I was a 2 monitor guy myself for years and I got the Dell U2412M with the plan of eventually adding a 2nd - once I started using it, I found I didn't really need to have 2 screens any more.

It's a LOT of screen space if you're used to smaller screens. I would definitely recommend getting the Dell or the HP Z24i that Couperin recommended above and see how she feels after using it before you decide if you really need 2 screens.

Couperin47 · Oct 1, 2014

Joe Sixpack said:
She may find that in moving from an older 20" monitor to a 24" 16:10 screen, she doesn't even need 2 monitors. I was a 2 monitor guy myself for years and I got the Dell U2412M with the plan of eventually adding a 2nd - once I started using it, I found I didn't really need to have 2 screens any more.

It's a LOT of screen space if you're used to smaller screens. I would definitely recommend getting the Dell or the HP Z24i that Couperin recommended above and see how she feels after using it before you decide if you really need 2 screens.

I'm a lawyer.. you can never have too much screen space, or horizontal surfaces to pile files onto....

Couperin47 · Oct 1, 2014

Koufax said:
Thanks for this information. I knew none of this. Absolutely none. For example, never heard of Displayport.

It's the newest video output standard, it's never found on inexpensive monitors, less than 20% of monitors include it and it's very rare on low end desktops or laptops. It's inclusion on the Gateway is a pleasant anomaly..

Time to Mo Vaughn · Oct 1, 2014

http://slickdeals.net/f/7236314-today-only-lenovo-ideacentre-q190-desktop-celeron-dual-core-1017u-4gb-ddr3-500gb-hdd-wifi-win-8-1-149-99-with-free-shipping-compact-small-footprint

Not high end in the least, but only $150.

Couperin47 · Oct 1, 2014

Dernells Casket n Flagon said:
http://slickdeals.net/f/7236314-today-only-lenovo-ideacentre-q190-desktop-celeron-dual-core-1017u-4gb-ddr3-500gb-hdd-wifi-win-8-1-149-99-with-free-shipping-compact-small-footprint

Not high end in the least, but only $150.

a mobile Celeron dual core running at 1.6 Mhz...that's Intel's bottom of the barrel cpu, deliberately being run slowly.. they can call it a 'desktop' all they want, that's a bottom feeder laptop chassis without the screen.. welcome to desktop performance 8 years ago... my 5 year old Q6600 box will run rings around this... this is what comes of people getting used to ridiculously underpowered ARM & Atom stuff in tablets....

Marceline · Oct 1, 2014

Couperin47 said:
I'm a lawyer.. you can never have too much screen space, or horizontal surfaces to pile files onto....

An excellent point - I don't know what his budget is though, but for me, I would rather have 1 good quality 24" 1920x1200 screen than 2 cheaper 1920x1080 screens if it came down to that. The vertical space is much more useful for working with documents.

My wife needs a new desktop computer - what one?

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