Mookie Betts appreciation thread
- Thread starter Sandy Leon Trotsky
- Start date
Ah yes thank you. I have no idea why I couldn't think of any but I guess I'm just not in that mode right now. Man I miss peak Junior.
I, too, am an idiot and a fool. I just turned my ballcap backwards as penance, and I'm 34 years old.
As for Mike Trout, I fully recognize he’s a great player, extremely valuable, young, exciting, and on a Hall of Fame trajectory.
But I often feel like I’m living in a world where he’s vastly overrated, and only I realize it.
People talk about him like he’s belting 130 home runs a season, while sporting a 2.275 OPS.
He’s been a .300-30-100 guy consistently over his career, which is fantastic - but I never got why that makes him the undisputed greatest player of the past whatever many years.
Frankly, I’m more impressed with Betts and Altuve.
But I often feel like I’m living in a world where he’s vastly overrated, and only I realize it.
People talk about him like he’s belting 130 home runs a season, while sporting a 2.275 OPS.
He’s been a .300-30-100 guy consistently over his career, which is fantastic - but I never got why that makes him the undisputed greatest player of the past whatever many years.
Frankly, I’m more impressed with Betts and Altuve.
Trout has a career OPS+ of 175 which is higher than Betts or Altuve have had in any single full season. I love me some Mookie and Altuve is a great player but neither are the player that Trout has been.
Right. Trout's the rare player where the slash lines actually outpace the hype, especially when you look at YOY improvement. There's so much noise around him being the most well-rounded player in the league that it crowds out the fact that he's in the short list for best pure hitter in the league, too. He's 2003 Miguel Cabrera without the athleticism decline - saying he's generational may be selling him short.
Having done the drive from Boston four times, it's past the last goddamn outpost of civilization (i.e. mid-Ohio)
Unless you count the Skyline Chili off exit 12, in that case you can push it an extra couple of degrees of longitude.
I'm abjectly sorry...that you've never been able to feign proper drunk. Seriously, I iam. Promise
That was some pretty aggressively smart baserunning by Betts tonight.
Oh and to keep with the thread hijack... I’ll just add as an amicus brief on these iconic West Coast ball players.
Reggie Jackson
Ricky Henderson
And there was even this guy in San Diego that people argue might be the greatest hitter of all time. Tony something.
Oh and to keep with the thread hijack... I’ll just add as an amicus brief on these iconic West Coast ball players.
Reggie Jackson
Ricky Henderson
And there was even this guy in San Diego that people argue might be the greatest hitter of all time. Tony something.
That guy from San Diego? His name was Ted, as in "Teddy Ballgame," not "Tony." And yes, he was the greatest hitter of all time. Except for that one guy named "George Herman something."
Buster Posey for a couple, 3 or 5 years, west coast face. Bit of a stretch, I know.
Speaking of Willie Mays, Eck said something on the post game last night about him. He said when he was a kid, he’d go see Willie play, and even when he didn’t go deep, he’d do something to change the game, comparing with Mookie scoring from first on that pop fly double to left by Beni. There’s your stretch comp.: Willie Mays. Thing about Willie was that he was so damn consistent, year in and year out for so many years. And the power. He had home run years of 41, 51, 40, 49, 47 and 52.
Mays through his age 25 season: 32.6 BWAR
Mookie, if he “just” equals his 2016 BWAR this year, would be at 33.0. Mays did lose more than a year and a half to the Korean War, but he also came up at age 20.
Consistency, year after year is going to be the measurement for Mookie.
Speaking of Willie Mays, Eck said something on the post game last night about him. He said when he was a kid, he’d go see Willie play, and even when he didn’t go deep, he’d do something to change the game, comparing with Mookie scoring from first on that pop fly double to left by Beni. There’s your stretch comp.: Willie Mays. Thing about Willie was that he was so damn consistent, year in and year out for so many years. And the power. He had home run years of 41, 51, 40, 49, 47 and 52.
Mays through his age 25 season: 32.6 BWAR
Mookie, if he “just” equals his 2016 BWAR this year, would be at 33.0. Mays did lose more than a year and a half to the Korean War, but he also came up at age 20.
Consistency, year after year is going to be the measurement for Mookie.
For as great as Mookie has been, Trout passed him in fWAR (2.7 to 2.5, granted Trout has played 4 more games). Speaks volume about what a player Trout is. Baring injury, no one can top him.
Guessing I could walk into work tomorrow and every single sports fan there with even a remote knowledge of baseball knows Mike Trout by name and as it's generally regarded best player. Put him in a street cloths interview on the TV and I doubt any of them would instantly recognize him as easily as they might somebody like Judge, Harper, or even Mookie though.
Last edited:
I don't know. Trout has that Mantle type body and good looks, and those are what made Mantle the #1 baseball icon.
Mantle also had the benefit of playing in New York. East coast bias is real, but especially so when compared to a time when baseball had a much higher profile in the national consciousness and much of the media of the time was based in the same town in which he plied his trade.
How Mookie reminds me of Junior is the pure joy they show while playing the game at such a high level.
He was hit in the back/shoulder on a throw to second base. He was favoring his right arm after and was taken from the game with a reported shoulder contusion after playing for another inning or so.
Was it close to where he got hit on that pitch last week? That would suck if it hit an already injured area.
It was pretty much his right shoulder blade. Not a lot of padding there, so it probably stung quite a bit.
For about 3 years (‘88-‘91) Jose Canseco was a household name and very much the most famous baseball player in the world.
Heck, he dated Madonna back when that was a big deal (and about 15 years before A Rod).
We’d all like to forget, but it happened.
Heck, he dated Madonna back when that was a big deal (and about 15 years before A Rod).
We’d all like to forget, but it happened.
Perhaps this is more for the Cora thread, but it seems like this year's team is making a concerted effort not to force guys to play through injury. X sat significantly longer than 10 days (admittedly, for a small fracture the MRI saw) and they've been cautious with Mookie through his hammy and now this.
Combined with the scheduled days off the position players are getting and the light(er) loads they seem to be giving the starting pitchers, I'm sure it won't be long before the "This team is soft"/"In my day, we walked uphill both ways to school for 10 miles" brigade is out in force. But after last year's underperformance--and combined with the general direction the game is going in and the fact that they want this team fresh in October, I think it's the right move.
Combined with the scheduled days off the position players are getting and the light(er) loads they seem to be giving the starting pitchers, I'm sure it won't be long before the "This team is soft"/"In my day, we walked uphill both ways to school for 10 miles" brigade is out in force. But after last year's underperformance--and combined with the general direction the game is going in and the fact that they want this team fresh in October, I think it's the right move.
I sort of feel you on this. I wouldn't go so far as to say Trout is "overrated" but he's a lot like LeBron for me. Yeah, they're great, but given their perfect, freakish physiques they sort of should be that good (or at least it makes their floors super high). I just don't get "excited" to watch either of them. I prefer underdog stories and a guy being about as good as they should be just doesn't get me going. Trout's is also a bit nondescript, like one of the generic minor leaguers in The Show.
I'd rather watch Mookie any day of the week over Trout, irrespective of their numbers.
You guys need to take a step back and realize that you're Red Sox fans. Of course you prefer to watch Mookie play because he's constantly winning games in exciting ways for YOUR team. You do not need to take anything away from Trout to call Mookie one of the best players in the league.
Exciting players do it all, they steal bases, hit homeruns, take great pitches, and are consistent. Trout has been doing everything Mookie is doing this season his whole career.
For S&G I put it to the test this morning. Showing a non-uniformed picture of Trout, Judge, and Mookie to 8 different people (only 3 actually follow baseball on a regular basis and claim a team. Yankee/Tampa/Mets fans) who I know at least somewhat follow sports, talk some surface baseball at times, and watch ESPN on a semi-regular basis. Only hint being they were a baseball player. I also live in Florida FWTW.
- 1 could name Trout (the Tampa fan).
- 4/8 could name Mookie
-7/8 could name Judge
Yea it is getting a tad ridiculous. Mookie Betts is in no way an "underdog story" and Mike Trout is far better than any human should be at baseball, and every personal story I have ever seen about him makes him out to be a really humble and decent dude. Mookie is an amazing player and I am psyched to have him on our team, but Mike Trout is pretty much already a HoF at age 26, and not slowing down anytime soon. I would probably like to watch Trout play more than Betts if Trout was on the Sox and Betts was on the Angels
The problem is Trout is so damn good that it's boring. He doesn't get the attention he deserves because he's just expected to be this great all the time.
Mookie and Judge being more recognizable is also obviously due to the markets.
Mookie and Judge being more recognizable is also obviously due to the markets.
Yeah it's pretty much all this, I think. I have very little doubt that if Trout were on the Yankees he would be far and away the most talked-about, recognizable baseball personality.
Well that's kind of the initial point though. If nobody actually pays much attention beyond the very random nod to the great #'s, and the media/talk shows never spend any notable segment time talking about you, can you really be the face of baseball?
Well, it's really two different things, I guess. Not getting the attention he deserves also doesn't mean Trout is any lesser of a player than he is. He may not be the "face" of baseball, sure, but he sure as hell is the best at it. I'm not convinced Mookie is necessarily more marketable or even more interesting to watch than Trout. He's just not resonating with the masses as much because he's on a team that doesn't seem to have a rabid following.
Hell, if anything, that kind of makes him underrated. In the end, it's the numbers that are telling us what we're missing, and that dude has more black ink than an average HoFer. And he's only 26.
Interesting. I'd bet that the top soccer players in Europe and Brazil would not go unrecognized in their respective areas. Trout's not going anywhere else any time soon either (like the east coast), signed through 2020 for $34M a year with the Angels.
Seriously, Trout is so damn consistent, his MVP seasons are just average by his standards. He is the best player of the current generation, by far.
Trout hasn't missed a game yet this year. Scioscia certainly isn't an advocate of giving days off now and then to his players, like Cora, although he may consider Trout as Superman II. He did get hurt last year though.