If he can't shoot a FT, how is he going to shoot a jump shot?
Which brings us to the bigger question - if his shoulder hurts him when he is shooting a FT, so much so that he has to change his form, why isn't he getting it checked out?
Markelle Fultz, Year Three: He's back! Big....?
- Thread starter PedroKsBambino
- Start date
Which brings us to the bigger question - if his shoulder hurts him when he is shooting a FT, so much so that he has to change his form, why isn't he getting it checked out?
Yes, this seems like the sort of injury one doesn’t play through, at least during the preseason.
I'd also imagine that altering shooting mechanics due to injury is going to contribute to throwing his mechanics off in general if he keeps shooting while injured. I understand they want to get him playing in the offensive schemes but maybe best just to wait until he can use his normal shooting form before suiting up.
This is always a fair concern for any player coming into the league with good 1-on-1 skills and a good shot. Given the very good veteran players on the team, as well as a strong coach, and Tatum is coming into an unusual situation for such a high pick. These factors should tamp down on those potential bad habits - the C's can bench him if he's throwing up bad shots and still be competitive.
This is a good point and why I'm high on Tatum and less so on Simmons and Fultz. In the Sixers game last week, Hayward rushed out to defend Simmons on a shot and Simmons drove by him. That's going to evaporate if Simmons shoots poorly. Also, he's going to get hacked near the end of these games if his FT's don't improve. Again, it was always the frustration with Rondo. Hopefully, Simmons will fare better.
Fultz is in another league as a shooter compared to Simmons, so I'm less concerned about him at the end of game. I've already stated why I'm somewhat down on him already so I won't repeat it. On another note, I don't think it's helpful to characterize Fultz as "shit" when it's pretty apparent that no one here believes that.
Last edited:
How did Fultz's defense seem to those who watched the game yesterday? I saw two clips of a lack of defense but i also saw defensive breakdowns on both sides.
BTW, one person who is impressed with Tatum's defense is Brad: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/10/10/morning-sports-update-jayson-tatums-defense-is-beyond-his-years-according-to-brad-stevens
BTW, one person who is impressed with Tatum's defense is Brad: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/10/10/morning-sports-update-jayson-tatums-defense-is-beyond-his-years-according-to-brad-stevens
He's 19 so it is hard to feel very confident about projecting. He is clearly elusive and will be a strong penetrator. And he won't be the last guard to be overwhelmed by Smart and Rozier at times. I was reminded of Dennis Schroder with less of a chip on his shoulder. It really seems like a classic case of "check back in 2-3 years."
edit: defensively, he was a non-factor
edit: defensively, he was a non-factor
Agreed. I know Philly's FO is probably sick of getting crap over guys always getting hurt, but it seems really counterproductive to play this kid if he's hurting so bad that he can't shoot a FT. It's just going to create bad habits that will impact him once he's healthy.
Late to the party (and not really on topic), but I gotta call this out: unless you're talking Gobert's or Draymond's defense, this a very dubious claim. Melo on offense is not in the same universe as LeBron, Durant, Harden, Curry, Kawhi, or even guys like IT, Lillard, and Irving. He's not near any of them as a scorer (i.e. volume + efficiency) and not near any of them as a passer except possibly Kawhi. Dude hasn't cracked .535 true shooting % in any of the last three seasons, while Curry and KD have both cracked .650, at significantly higher volume.
He's a lot closer to moderately inefficient ball-stoppers like DeRozan, Wiggins and Harrison Barnes on offense than he is to LeBron or KD. Give him LeBron or KD's above-average-ish D, and I still wouldn't consider him a top 20 player.
Ah, makes more sense, but even prime Melo maxed out at .568 true shooting (on uber-high volume and usage) and was generally in the .540-.560 range. Still not sure that plus decent D quite makes a top 5 player, but yeah, it's a lot closer than today's Melo plus D.
On topic of Tatum (which I guess is why we we're talking Melo), in the realm of talented-wing forwards with some iso-tendencies... I'd hope he tries to model his game after young Kawhi rather than young Melo.
Last edited:
+1. There might be something to this too as Kawhi also had the luxury of entering the league with a team that was already successful with good players and a good coach. It's difficult to be a rookie and get playing time in this situation if you're not playing a team game. It really is the best possible introduction.
He (Fultz, not Tatum) was out of last night's preseason game with a sore right knee. Haven't heard much about when or where he got it.
Wondering when he's going to be right physically.
Wondering when he's going to be right physically.
Would any Cs fans here (esp. those who railed about the Kyrie trade, or the Philly pick trade-down) still prefer an alternate reality where they had picked Fultz, kept the BKN 2018 pick, and gone into the season with a PG stable of Fultz, Larkin, and whoever, with IT hopefully kinda healthy by January?
Or the one where they had still traded down for Tatum, kept the BKN 2018 (giving them two shots at high picks in that draft), and gone into the season with a PG stable of Larkin, whoever, and whoever, with IT hopefully kinda healthy by January?
Curious if anyone's changed their minds at all after watching Kyrie and Fultz in preseason.
Or the one where they had still traded down for Tatum, kept the BKN 2018 (giving them two shots at high picks in that draft), and gone into the season with a PG stable of Larkin, whoever, and whoever, with IT hopefully kinda healthy by January?
Curious if anyone's changed their minds at all after watching Kyrie and Fultz in preseason.
I didn't rail against the Philly pick trade-down and kind of liked it, but I did not like the Kyrie trade and still don't. I think that they just gave up too much for him. So yes, I'd rather have Rozier (not a whoever), Larkin, Crowder, IT, Zizic, Tatum and the 2018 Brooklyn pick. I hope I'm proven wrong, but only time will tell.
It took me about an hour or two to come around on both trades but I ended up liking them and like them a little more atm. The Nets are playing well, IT's injury is worse than I thought, and Tatum's been impressive while Fultz has been gimpy. I put very little weight on the latter, though. Zizic has also looked meh, but that's probably to be expected.
As for Irving himself, I'm impressed. I think he tends to get underrated because he gets overrated. He's a better distributor than he gets credit for, mostly because his game was nerfed in Cleveland.
As for Irving himself, I'm impressed. I think he tends to get underrated because he gets overrated. He's a better distributor than he gets credit for, mostly because his game was nerfed in Cleveland.
If they'd drafted Fultz he would almost certainly have been the centerpiece of the Irving trade and Boston would have the 2018 Brooklyn pick. All told I'm happier with Tatum and the Laker pick.
I was super-high on Kyrie playing under Brad, so nothing has changed there.
Fultz's preseason performance hasn't changed my thinking tons (I liked the Tatum trade, but I thought Fultz had higher upside and a high floor). The only thing I'm wondering now is what the Celtics saw when they worked Fultz out, and whether they anticipated any of these issues. There was almost zero talk of trading the pick until that workout, and then it was moved quite quickly following it.
It's probably this:
Knee injuries are never a good sign and can be long-term, lingering issues (I know, I had one that thankfully I overcame, but the ordeal took years and I wasn't sprinting up and down hardwood courts when I was working on my recovery). My guess is the Celtics, when they brought him in for the shoot-around and medical tests, had an inkling that this knee injury could be an ongoing concern. Just a guess, and the Celts would never confirm or otherwise comment on this, I'm sure.
Fultz missed the end of his college season due to right knee soreness. It was weird as I'm watching his last U of Washington game where he returned from the locker room on two occasions to play which isn't what you'd expect from the projected #1 pick in the NBA draft who is playing on a 2-16 PAC-10 team after having missed previous games due to soreness in the same knee. One thing about Ainge is that he is a man of conviction and he clearly had issues with Fultz from the get go......time will tell how this plays out (we saw how it played out with Durant/Oden) but as of this moment Ainge's offseason moves look better and better.
There was zero talk however there were hints from as early as lottery night that Ainge wasn't a Fultz guy having never once mentioned a specific player by name in his interviews the days following winning the #1 pick.
And then there was Ainge's famous comment that Fultz scored really well versus a chair.
Hey, over the years we’ve probably drafted plenty of guys who couldn’t beat the chair.
I don't put much stock in the interview thing but I do think that something happened during Fultz's private workout(s) with the Celtics that soured them on him a bit. My complete guess is that Danny wasn't in love with Fultz competitiveness/will to win and that moved his stock down internally with the Celtics.
and it seems like Big baby and Jared Sullinger just sat in it and grabbed a snack
I recall someone saying something to Ainge about Danny having seen Fultz in person seven times and he replied that yeah that's true but he also saw Ball, Tatum and Jackson in person six or seven times each.
Around draft time, there is so much smoke coming out of Team Danny it's hard to know what is true and what isn't.
Yes, so much of it is reading between the lines. We do know that Ainge never mentioned a player by name in his initial post-lottery interviews. We know that after Fultz worked out for Boston his people knew that Ainge wasn't committed to him as he then worked out for Philly then cancelled a second workout with Boston to workout for Philly (again) and the Lakers. All this was occurring while most fans were still calling him the consensus #1 pick......which wasn't what all this movement was indicating.
Philly loves them some injured lottery picks. Noel, Embiid, Simmons, and now Fultz.
I'm not sure how much I buy the injury reasons esp as it's moving.
I think they may hold him back and fix the shot/ get 100% healthy if he isn't
The whole thing is fucking weird
I think they may hold him back and fix the shot/ get 100% healthy if he isn't
The whole thing is fucking weird
Futlz will start the season on the bench:
@JCameratoNBCS
Brown's plan is for Fultz to come off the bench to start the season. Pointed to the fact Fultz didn't played much in preseason.
@JCameratoNBCSBrown's plan is for Fultz to come off the bench to start the season. Pointed to the fact Fultz didn't played much in preseason.
He just shot-putted a free thrown off the backboard, no rim. This is so bizarre. The shoulder has to be an issue for him to be doing this, but if that's the case, I really don't see any reason for him to be out there. Now it's clearly in his head too. He didn't have to deal with much pressure on a team going nowhere in the Pac 10, but Philly is Philly, and they're trying to win games there.
I expected Fultz to struggle, but if this form change is related to a sore shoulder they need to shut him down. The team is predictably actually not good at all. Hoping to win 35 games and that 7 games under .500 makes the 8 seed is incredibly stupid as a reason to let they guy you traded two top picks for play hurt and screw up his form. If it isn't injury related he should be benched until they can get his shot form back in line.
If it was injury related, I think they would have shut them down. If that's the case, he's healthy and it's all just mental. Given all the stories we heard about his makeup, maybe there was some truth to it.
Remember when Philly cheered like they won a title when he made two in a row
Shut him down. I like the kid and he needs to get right. It's been a really weird summer for him.
I have never seen this before. I’ve seen horrible depth on plenty of free throws, but never have I seen someone shoot completely outside the width of the cylinder.
I think if we know one thing about Philly it is they have no problem sitting top draft picks until they are healthy.
I may be mistaken but I seem to recall Shaq doing that however if Fultz can’t shoot free throws better than Shaq something is terribly wrong.