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Markelle Fultz, Year Two: Blass, Ankiel, Knoblauch...or cheese fries?

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by PedroKsBambino, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    He hasn't been able to get on the court with the three ensuing teams. He just isn't very good.
     
  2. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    And like I said, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that he’s a bust for a #3 pick. But he’s not Dragan Bender.
     
  3. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Noel sucks and you could get a bag of Okafors for him. Defending Okafor is the homerest thing seen here in a while.
     
  4. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    He's Dragan Bender.
     
  5. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    Homerist? I’m a Celtics fan and hate Duke with the fire of a million suns.
     
  6. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Seems like such an odd take. Okafor was a terrible defensive center who played offense like we were still in the 90's. He probably could have found a role as a 15 minute a night scorer off the bench if it weren't for the injuries.

    Jaylen is a solid defender at a position of need around the league. Even if he fails to shoot 35% from three, he is a starter on a terrible team, and a first wing off the bench on a playoff team.
     
  7. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    He’s a solid defender and has been an absolutely awful offensive player for all but about a 15-game stretch in his three years in the league. Whether he’s a starter is context dependent, for sure, but I’d say not seeing him as closer to the bust end of the #3 spectrum is homerism.
     
  8. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    He was above league average in both shooting and scoring efficiency last year, so he was an offensive asset for a lot more than just the playoffs. Yes, he's been terrible this year, but he wasn't last year.
     
  9. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    He shot .395 from 3P land last year on 300+ attempts. I don't know if that's an outlier but he was a productive offensive player for more than 15 games last year.

    The biggest problem with JB is that he needs the ball in his hands and that's not happening this year.
     
  10. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Ok. Well at least we agree on the rest of my post I guess.
     
  11. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    If you’re going to cite Jaylen’s 2019 ORPM to draw a negative comparison with respect to Okafor, maybe you should note Okafor’s RPM placement among centers in his career. Dead last by a large margin in 2016, dead last by a huge margin in 2017, and 55th out of 58 last year. Unsurprisingly, he’s barely getting any minutes this year.

    Jaylen was 13th out of 87 SGs in RPM last year, between Iggy and Beal. He hasn’t progressed they way we’d hoped so far this year, but he’s not comparable as a player or in terms of value to Okafor, who is literally one of the worst players in the league when it comes to helping his teams win basketball games.

    In the interest of my mission of pimping Jacob Goldstein’s PIPM on this board, I’ll not that Jah’s career PIPM is a mind-bending -4.15. Jaylen’s is -0.05 (-1.7 this year) which is about replacement level. For some reference, there are only three guys this year with PIPMs lower than Jah’s career average, Colin Sexton, Staukas and CJ Miles.

    https://wakelet.com/@JacobEGoldstein

    For anyone interested who doesn’t already have this stuff bookmarked, that’s a link to a bunch of fun tools.
     
  12. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    He was .545 TS% and 101 oRTG through 55 of his 70 games. League average was .556 and 108.6. So maybe not absolutely awful, but certainly below average.
     
  13. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Removing a player’s 15 best games does typically cause their season long stats to suffer.
     
  14. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    It’s pretty consistent with my statement that *except for a 15-game stretch*, he’s been awful. But you can feel free to believe his 15-game stretch of shooting .491 from 3pt and .780 from FT is more predictive and representative than the other 160 games in which he’s shot .343 and .637.
     
  15. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Except that your statement is still junk. He was really awful in October and January, and varying levels of average/above average/good the rest of the year. So you’re literally doing what you’re accusing the rest of us of doing.

    The 19 awful games and the 15 really good ones are what happens when you’re dealing with young players. They’re inconsistent.
     
  16. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    Except that you are still cherry picking. I am wholly willing to stand solely on his entire body of work and/or his current season. They both represent a bad offensive player. He’s not likely to suddenly become a good shooter or passer. I wish he would, but his body of work points to the contrary.

    I mean, it’s pretty telling that the guy came into the game shooting .271 from 3 and .648 from the line. Both of those percentages went down, he was a -22, didn’t have a single assist, steal, or block, and the game thread was excited about him having a good game.
     
    #2016 The Needler, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  17. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Right, you want to ignore the second year improvement, we get it. You don’t need to keep beating the drum.
     
  18. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    LOL, Reggie Miller just gave a “cmon man,” to Markelle’s “injury” on the national broadcast.
     
  19. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    I've been critical of JB's game this season. BUT I did give him some props on the game thread last night. He looked engaged and "with it", opposed to appearing hesitant/confused like he has most of this season. I did notice his -22 and mentioned it on the thread and immediately got push back. I think Danny/Brad may have a problem brewing with Jaylen, if this keeps up his value will quickly erode. I tossed out earlier this season that Atlanta would potentially want to bring JB home and offer something like Prince/Huerter, not sure we'd get that offer if Jaylen continues to struggle.
     
  20. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Rozier, Theis, and Hayward had similar ass plus minus numbers. How could anyone possibly unpack that.

    Jaylen enters every game lately about 25 seconds before Terry.
     
  21. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    He had the worst ORtg on the team (104.1), and as I said, no assists (fewest passes except for Semi and Yanisel, and fewest overall on a per minute), as well as no blocks, steals, or deflections. Not a very good game.
     
  22. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    If you watched JB at Cal you knew what you were getting: a super-athletic kid with much to learn about basketball. Given where he was as a rookie, I think he's made decent strides. He defends well, and while is offense is sometimes ragged, his game has sizzle.
     
  23. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I'm sure it's an outlier but I'm sure he's not nearly as bad as the .270 he's shooting at now. He's only at 111 attempts.

    I'm not nearly as high on Jaylen as I was at the start of the year. He's good enough when his shot his falling but he hasn't really shown much improvement. We're almost at the half way point of the season so he still has some time. I don't think you can ignore his last 15 games just like you can't ignore Rozier's last 2 months, but I think we tend to focus on those rather than the complete season. Easy to do with young players.
     
  24. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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