Markelle Fultz, Year Three: He's back! Big....?

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Even though his FT form change is perplexing, what is more mind-boggling to me is the fact that he hasn't taken a shot outside of what looks to be 10 feet. Maybe he has sort of tendonitis that hurts him when he raises his arm but in that case it's also mind-boggling why he wouldn't tell someone about it.

This is as weird as anything I can remember in the NBA.

Shot chart in this tweet:
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Comparison versus college form below; now that I am looking there was a hitch in his FT motion in college too. Doesn't explain his lack of jump shooting.

 

JCizzle

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Even though his FT form change is perplexing, what is more mind-boggling to me is the fact that he hasn't taken a shot outside of what looks to be 10 feet. Maybe he has sort of tendonitis that hurts him when he raises his arm but in that case it's also mind-boggling why he wouldn't tell someone about it.

This is as weird as anything I can remember in the NBA.

Shot chart in this tweet:
As you said, it makes sense if he's hurt. Shut him down sixers! This is kinda unreal from a team as conservative as the sixers, their core is still so young.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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As you said, it makes sense if he's hurt. Shut him down sixers! This is kinda unreal from a team as conservative as the sixers, their core is still so young.
They can't really shut him down unless he admits he's injured, right? And so far as I understand, he's saying he's not hurt, right?

I wonder what he said when DA asked him about his knee injury at the draft interview.
 

JCizzle

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They can't really shut him down unless he admits he's injured, right? And so far as I understand, he's saying he's not hurt, right?

I wonder what he said when DA asked him about his knee injury at the draft interview.
I thought he already admitted to shoulder soreness?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I thought he already admitted to shoulder soreness?
He admits to soreness but nothing of the type that would prevent him from shooting a jump shot.

In KO'Connor's Ringer article, Fultz said: "I talk to trainers when it bothers me, and they get right to it and start working on it,” Fultz said. “When it’s not, I’m happy. Either way, I’m happy and I just go out and play." https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/10/10/16452324/markelle-fultz-free-throw-shoulder

also see this: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-shoulder-sixers-76ers-coach-brett-brown-20171010.html
 

LondonSox

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I don't understand it at all it's so bizarre. He was a good shooter with a nice shot, he is better in rhythm and his free throw shot has always been a bit off but wtf.
On the free throw I think actually he's fixing it slowly. If he brings his hands lower and starts it into a motion it wouldn't be bad. It's ... Possible that this is an in-between stage of something.

But that doesn't explain him actively passing on open looks. He shot toooooooo much before.

If it's his shoulder, I don't care if the scans show anything or not. He's acting like it hurts your doctor's have missed thing before. So shut him down. The last thing he needs is starting his career hurt and breaking his shot and getting scared.

The team needs shooting and defense, he's not providing either. If he's hurt stop playing him, if he's not what the f is up? Maybe shut him down until you figure out what is happening.
Is he shooting in practice?

Throwing him out there after babying everyone else is insane.
 

luckiestman

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I laughed really loud at that FT shot. Holy shit. I was expecting it to be bad, but cmon. I don't think I ever missed that badly when I used to play a lot of pick up and I am not good.

I keep expecting Fultz to just start laughing and then shooting normally. This is so bad it seems like it is an Andy Kaufman type thing.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Why do people keep insisting he's hurt when everything about the 76ers MO screams otherwise? The only thing that makes sense is he's actually healthy. I guess he could be hiding something but it would be hard to hide an injury serious enough to prevent him from shooting the ball correctly.
 

luckiestman

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Why do people keep insisting he's hurt when everything about the 76ers MO screams otherwise? The only thing that makes sense is he's actually healthy. I guess he could be hiding something but it would be hard to hide an injury serious enough to prevent him from shooting the ball correctly.

If he is not hurt, he might really be mentally unstable and that's not something I want to really consider. That's how weird this is. This is the number one pick in the draft we're talking about here. He's either injured, trolling, or crazy. I don't see a 4th option.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If he is not hurt, he might really be mentally unstable and that's not something I want to really consider. That's how weird this is. This is the number one pick in the draft we're talking about here. He's either injured, trolling, or crazy. I don't see a 4th option.
And going into the draft, one of the biggest questions about Markelle Fultz was his temperament and how he might shy away from the spotlight. There is no bigger spotlight than the FT line.

Hopefully it's not what it looks like.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Why do people keep insisting he's hurt when everything about the 76ers MO screams otherwise? The only thing that makes sense is he's actually healthy. I guess he could be hiding something but it would be hard to hide an injury serious enough to prevent him from shooting the ball correctly.
The lack of 3 point attempts seems especially odd to me if he's healthy. He passed up some open looks against the Celtics, it makes some kind of sense that he has some ailment making it too hard to launch shots from that distance (either sapping his strength or limiting his range of motion) so he doesn't even try. How bad would the yips have to be if he is healthy but just not taking them, at all?
 

jmm57

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So, are you still a celtics homer if you suggest that he may not have been the clear cut lock for #1 overall that most pre draft prognosticators would have you believe?
 

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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/philadelphia-sixers-76ers-markelle-fultz-shoulder-soreness-shot-20171021.html

The Sixers admit he has an injury but feel he can contribute in other ways. As a Sixers fan, I would prefer they sit him until he’s completely healthy, but it is a legitimate position to take to have an athlete play as long as he’s well enough to take the floor since playing through pain is part of being a professional athlete.

I think this decision to play him is prompted by a combination of our recent history with draft picks and the hype about this season. But the tickets have all been sold, so hopefully they’ll shut him down at some point if he continues to struggle.
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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The lack of 3 point attempts seems especially odd to me if he's healthy. He passed up some open looks against the Celtics, it makes some kind of sense that he has some ailment making it too hard to launch shots from that distance (either sapping his strength or limiting his range of motion) so he doesn't even try. How bad would the yips have to be if he is healthy but just not taking them, at all?
Dude missed a FT by 2 feet. Maybe he doesn't want to kill a grandma sitting in the 3rd row by donking her off the head.
 
Aug 24, 2017
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The shoulder soreness strikes me as a nice way to explain away something more embarrassing --- he's shook. The NBA has completely gotten into his head. He shot from outside constantly at Washington (or Washington St.) with stadiums 1/5th full and television on Pac12 After Dark App.

Every innuendo and indication was there; but the talent was enough to hope it away.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The shoulder soreness strikes me as a nice way to explain away something more embarrassing --- he's shook. The NBA has completely gotten into his head. He shot from outside constantly at Washington (or Washington St.) with stadiums 1/5th full and television on Pac12 After Dark App.

Every innuendo and indication was there; but the talent was enough to hope it away.
This has to be the most severe basketball case of the yips I've seen from a good shooter since Otis Birdsong at the line in his New Jersey Nets days. If a shoulder injury was this severe to cause him to alter his form there is no way he would have been cleared by the medical staff to play or his agent/team would allow him to play. How does Ainge have whatever information he had about Fultz but Philly did not? Crazy in this day and age of information.
 

RG33

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So, are you still a celtics homer if you suggest that he may not have been the clear cut lock for #1 overall that most pre draft prognosticators would have you believe?
In Danny We Trust.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Of course. I was just poking fun of the thought of someone taking freethrows in an actual pickup game. I have had someone try that and found it comical when he asked for the ball at the FT line
I don't know your age but waaaaay back in the day if there were less than 5 guys playing the winner you'd have players from the losing team line up to take FT's to fill out the next team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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OK OK my joke fell flat. I am old but we generally would shoot threes for next
I had some tricks. We'd always take the shots from the line but if I was competing against bigs or non-shooters I'd "suggest" that we take the second round from three.....ya know, to help speed up the game. It worked like a charm. ;)

Sorry for the hijack. #flashback #glorydays
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Of course. I was just poking fun of the thought of someone taking freethrows in an actual pickup game. I have had someone try that and found it comical when he asked for the ball at the FT line
You never had refs at your pickup games? And scorers and uniforms and cheerleaders? You must have been deprived when you were young.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The shoulder soreness strikes me as a nice way to explain away something more embarrassing --- he's shook. The NBA has completely gotten into his head. He shot from outside constantly at Washington (or Washington St.) with stadiums 1/5th full and television on Pac12 After Dark App.

Every innuendo and indication was there; but the talent was enough to hope it away.
I don't know if I agree with this. Remember - Fultz played against Ball and UCLA, and then sat the name game because of "knee soreness". At that point, he was listed as day-to-day.

He missed the next game, played in the next two, and then didn't play for the season.

The most interesting thing about his knee injury was that no one really ever knew when he suffered the knee injury. Also, for the six to eight weeks, no one really knew the severity of it.

To me, all of the shooting mechanics notwithstanding, since that UCLA game on February 4trh, he's played 68 minutes of college ball (two games against AZ and AZ State); 64 minutes in the Summer League before being shut down after coming down on someone's foot; 47 minutes of preseason action; and 59 minutes of NBA time.

During this time, he's missed multiple games; he apparently has problems lifting his arm above his head; and is batting his mysterious shoulder problem plus his right knee is sore again.

As with respect to the shoulder and knee, no one's ever been able to see anything that would have caused on injury.

So it doesn't seem like he's shook from being in the NBA; there seems to be something deeper going on because it seems like it's a carryover from college.
 
Aug 24, 2017
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That's a good point; I am obviously being a little funny in my presentation of it and we can't say it's the NBA or being the #1 pick. But I do think we can say it's mental.
 

luckiestman

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OK OK my joke fell flat. I am old but we generally would shoot threes for next

That's actually what I was thinking about. Forgot they were from the college 3 above the free throw line and not actually free throw line. I forget exactly what these guys called it "shoot the die" or something like that.

This was like 18-20 years ago, moops! Get off my lawn.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know if I agree with this. Remember - Fultz played against Ball and UCLA, and then sat the name game because of "knee soreness". At that point, he was listed as day-to-day.

He missed the next game, played in the next two, and then didn't play for the season.

The most interesting thing about his knee injury was that no one really ever knew when he suffered the knee injury. Also, for the six to eight weeks, no one really knew the severity of it.
That sequence seems strange at the time too. Fultz had played 38 minutes in the UCLA game. In his first game back he returned to the locker room at least once in the first half (I want to say he left game in second half to do same but honestly I don't recall for sure), played 38 minutes two days later then was shut down for the year. He never once left the floor in distress or with any limp/sign of injury. It was bizarre at the time and even more so now.
 

LondonSox

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Why do people keep insisting he's hurt when everything about the 76ers MO screams otherwise? The only thing that makes sense is he's actually healthy. I guess he could be hiding something but it would be hard to hide an injury serious enough to prevent him from shooting the ball correctly.
Because he says it's the reason for the changes, and the sixers have not disagreed.

If he is not hurt, he might really be mentally unstable and that's not something I want to really consider. That's how weird this is. This is the number one pick in the draft we're talking about here. He's either injured, trolling, or crazy. I don't see a 4th option.
Mentally unstable? Really?

So, are you still a celtics homer if you suggest that he may not have been the clear cut lock for #1 overall that most pre draft prognosticators would have you believe?
I don't know, do you think this was predictable?
If you predicted it or labelled him "mentally unstable " then hot take away

The guy went from an excellent shooter in SUMMER LEAGUE to not taking shots at all. No doubt that's what your reasoning was for not wanting him.

Further the free throw isn't even that bad, he needs to start his hands lower and do it all in one motion. The hitch has gone.

Anyone patting themselves on the back for one of the most unlikely and odd things we have seen in a long time needs to show their work. Gloating over three games which we don't know what is happening is dumb.
 

LondonSox

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If he's not willing to listen at this point. That's not good.
I think it's clear the team should just say shoulder injury, nothing long term but needs to heal and if he's healthy use the time to see a shrink. If he's hurt. LET HIM HEAL. Given how they babied embiid and Simmons this throw him out there is absolutely moronic.

It wouldn't shock me if colangelo didn't want his hurt for the hyped season. But enough. That is dumb and it's dumber by the day.
Don't fuck this talent up because you're stubborn and don't want people to question you
 

Kliq

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I don't know your age but waaaaay back in the day if there were less than 5 guys playing the winner you'd have players from the losing team line up to take FT's to fill out the next team.
As a millennial that plays frequently the standard has always been to shoot free throws to fill the open spots. If a couple guys make three or four free throws in a row; then it is customary to move to threes.
 

DourDoerr

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As a millennial that plays frequently the standard has always been to shoot free throws to fill the open spots. If a couple guys make three or four free throws in a row; then it is customary to move to threes.
Lord, not a millennial, but that's the way we do things on the west coast too.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If anyone wants a more in-depth look at his new form versus old form, the video below has it.

The narrator believes the new form is something that Fultz has been asked to do by the 76ers coaches; however, as one of the comments pointed out, it was something Fultz himself initiated between Summer League and pre-season so if he's been coached to change his form, it's probably something he started doing at the advice of one of his advisors.

And also arguing against an injury is the fact that I don't think I've seen (having watched the better part of two 76ers games) Fultz ever wincing or showing discomfort after making a layup or taking contact.

 

nighthob

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It's completely bizarre. I like Fultz, in general, and think that he'll still be OK long term. But Jesus am I happy that the Celtics took Tatum instead.
 

reggiecleveland

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He may need the obligatory Sixers red shirt year.
My bias is against nonshooters (though Smart has grown on me) so I was happy Danny didn't draft this guy. On the other hand his athleticism and understanding of how to beat people off the dribble is incredible. I imagine form the time he was 13 opposing coaches have been telling guys to let him shoot and keep him from the rim, without success.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He may need the obligatory Sixers red shirt year.
My bias is against nonshooters (though Smart has grown on me) so I was happy Danny didn't draft this guy. On the other hand his athleticism and understanding of how to beat people off the dribble is incredible. I imagine form the time he was 13 opposing coaches have been telling guys to let him shoot and keep him from the rim, without success.
This is interesting. I wasn't sold on Fultz due to his lack of explosiveness and in these early games he hasn't struggled getting his shot off on penetration in the paint. In college he never showed an inability to shoot as that was one of his strengths. He has yet to take a jumper from outside of 14 feet as a pro.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He has yet to take a jumper from outside of 14 feet as a pro.
Remember Fultz's summer league performance against the Jazz in SLC? Of the 16 shots he made, 8 were from 3P Land and he made four of them. He didn't have any difficulty shooting then and it is unclear what could have happened between now and then that would have lead to the current state of affairs.

write-up here: http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-76ers/summer-league-markelle-fultz-sixers-cant-finish-4th-quarter-rally

video here:
 

Kliq

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Imo, anyone saying they were hesitant on drafting Fultz because he was a poor shooter is having his unforeseen struggles taint their memory. Maybe there was some hesitancy due to his FT shooting but all I remember is everyone saying he was going to be an above-average shooter.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I didn't think he'd be a poor shooter, but I did mention just how incredibly small his sample size actually is.
 

luckiestman

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I watched his summer league debut after not watching a minute of his college career. I thought he was good and had to hope Danny did the right thing. I find this very troubling because how bad he looks does not make any type of sense to me.
 

Jimbodandy

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I watched his summer league debut after not watching a minute of his college career. I thought he was good and had to hope Danny did the right thing. I find this very troubling because how bad he looks does not make any type of sense to me.
There was some talk of him not being an elite shooter, based on ft%. I don't remember anyone hinting at the mess that he is now.

Looks like the yips to me. Hope he figures it out