Manchester United 2015/2016: The Most Exciting Team in the League

Zomp

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So after one of the busiest weeks I can remember for transfers its time to start the season thread.
 
After agreeing to sign Memphis Depay during the end of last season, in this week alone United have signed Matteo Darmian, Bastian Shweinsteiger, and have an agreement in place for Morgan Schneiderlin.  He won't steal the headlines but Darmian is a very important signing.  Antonio Valencia filled in admirably last season and after having so much youth as a teenager Rafael's time at the club has come to an end.  Darmian will hopefully bring consistency and a player who is comfortable in both defense and attack.  He looks pretty durable as well, playing in 47 games in all competition last season.
 
Schweinsteiger (the first German to ever play for the senior club) and Schneiderlin turn what has historically been a weakness into a strength and one of the best midfields in Europe.
 
I don't know if they'll compete with Chelsa for the title (need a centerback especially and a back up striker to Rooney) but you would hope this squad will easily make the top 4 and compete on all fronts.  If we lose DDG to Madrid we'll probably try to sign a keeper but will have to roll with Valdes if none of the targets come through.
 
Van Gaal has his work cut out for him making all of the new signings gel together but unlike last year when everyone came in near deadline day, these signings will go on the preseason tour and should be given plenty of time to gel.
 
Its almost a given that Van Gaal will play 4-3-3.  How some of the players fit in we'll see (for example does Di Maria play on the wing or at left or right center mid?) but I'm looking forward to seeing how it all shakes out.
 
Here's my depth chart and preffered position list but LVG could change some things around...
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------DDG (Valdes)----------------------------------------------------------------
Darmian (Valencia)-----------Jones(Smallling)----------------Rojo(Evans)---------------------------------Shaw(Blind)
-----------------------------------------------------Schweinsteiger (Carrick)-----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Herrerra (Mata)----------------Schneiderlin (Fellaini, Di Maria?)----------------------------
Mata (Di Maria)------------------------------Rooney (Wilson)-------------------------------------------Depay (Young)
 
 
 
There are some rumors coming out tonight that PSG will be 45M pounds for Di Maria.  I COULD see United selling him and taking a loss then trying to bring someone that can play on the wing and up front (Lacazette, Cavani) if Di Maria goes, but he's so talented I'd love for him to get another year.
 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Adding Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger improves United significantly in an area of weakness but Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin-Herrera is a very defensive trio, good at controlling games, extremely good at pressing the opponent high up the field, but quite poor compared to other top clubs in terms of offensive thrust and creativity in the final third.  I don't think that is even one of the best three man midfields in England...
 
Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin-Herrera
Coquelin-Cazorla-Ozil
Fernandinho-Yaya-Silva
Matic-Fabregas-Oscar
 
Let alone in Europe...
 
Busqets-Rakitic-Iniesta
Modric-Kroos-James
Martinez-Thiago-Gotze
Marchisio-Pogba-Vidal
 
The problem is that Schweinsteiger (at this stage in his career at least), Schneiderlin, and Carrick are all ideally the most defensive midfielder, or at least the player expected to contribute least in the final third, in a midfield three for a top club.  Except for Atleti, I can't think of any other top European club regularly playing a guy as offensively limited as Schneiderlin in the #8 role, even if they have a good passer behind him like Schweinsteiger.  Even Mourinho realized that he needed a player like Fabregas there in today's game.  And while Herrera is a very nice player he isn't exactly in the same class as the players the other teams on that list are trotting out as the most attacking of their three midfielders...
 
The biggest problem with United last year was that they didn't create enough chances and didn't score enough goals (62, which is about 20 less than you usually need to compete for the title).  In that sense, I think Depay is actually the most important transfer of the summer as a goal scoring wing forward who could add some much needed dynamism.  If he thrives and contributes a lot next year, this team could be really dangerous.  If he struggles adapting to the Premier League, I don't see United having enough offensive firepower to consistently break down defenses and turn 1 point into 3 points, especially with that midfield.
 
The X factor is that I'm almost certain you will buy another striker as going into the season with Wilson as cover for Rooney (I don't buy Depay at striker, no matter what LVG says) is borderline suicidal.  It might be a backup that adds depth and not much else but it also could be a big splash, which the club can certainly still afford.
 
Overall, my guess is that due to all these issues, plus the growing pains of bedding in 4-5 new starters, United won't seriously challenge for the title this season.  But they'll likely consolidate a place in the top 4 and set themselves up for a real title challenge the following year.
 

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Wow, another major re-tool for United! You can't blame them-- they have the spending power, and the desperate determination to remain at or near the top. I agree, Zomp, that they are all but a shoo-in for CL places this year. I also agree, MMS, in your midfield breakdowns. There's a lot of quality already out there. It does all come down to LVG being able to make the whole at least as good as the sum of it's parts, and though I'm not wholly sold on him, I've got to believe their attack will benefit from new solidity in the midfield. The weak link is clearly now the middle of defense, especially if DeGea goes as expected. If they can provide cover for them, it ought to mean more time in the attacking zone, and I think they have enough talent up front. DiMaria will have to be better, but they could have 5 players score 10 or more goals.
Of course, they can't all play at once. Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin are almost redundant as preferred holding MFs, along with Carrick. If the former has injury problems, it could mean the latter gets more games. Conversely, Schneiderlin could see his playing time and prospects drop if the old guys stay healthy for a while. In any case, ManU now has an embarrassment of riches, and look to be firmly in the running for top spot next year.
Not that that makes me particularly happy...
 

Zomp

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Adding Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger improves United significantly in an area of weakness but Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin-Herrera is a very defensive trio, good at controlling games, extremely good at pressing the opponent high up the field, but quite poor compared to other top clubs in terms of offensive thrust and creativity in the final third.  I don't think that is even one of the best three man midfields in England...
 
Schweinsteiger-Schneiderlin-Herrera
Coquelin-Cazorla-Ozil
Fernandinho-Yaya-Silva
Matic-Fabregas-Oscar
 
Let alone in Europe...
 
Busqets-Rakitic-Iniesta
Modric-Kroos-James
Martinez-Thiago-Gotze
Marchisio-Pogba-Vidal
 
The problem is that Schweinsteiger (at this stage in his career at least), Schneiderlin, and Carrick are all ideally the most defensive midfielder, or at least the player expected to contribute least in the final third, in a midfield three for a top club.  Except for Atleti, I can't think of any other top European club regularly playing a guy as offensively limited as Schneiderlin in the #8 role, even if they have a good passer behind him like Schweinsteiger.  Even Mourinho realized that he needed a player like Fabregas there in today's game.  And while Herrera is a very nice player he isn't exactly in the same class as the players the other teams on that list are trotting out as the most attacking of their three midfielders...
 
The biggest problem with United last year was that they didn't create enough chances and didn't score enough goals (62, which is about 20 less than you usually need to compete for the title).  In that sense, I think Depay is actually the most important transfer of the summer as a goal scoring wing forward who could add some much needed dynamism.  If he thrives and contributes a lot next year, this team could be really dangerous.  If he struggles adapting to the Premier League, I don't see United having enough offensive firepower to consistently break down defenses and turn 1 point into 3 points, especially with that midfield.
 
The X factor is that I'm almost certain you will buy another striker as going into the season with Wilson as cover for Rooney (I don't buy Depay at striker, no matter what LVG says) is borderline suicidal.  It might be a backup that adds depth and not much else but it also could be a big splash, which the club can certainly still afford.
 
Overall, my guess is that due to all these issues, plus the growing pains of bedding in 4-5 new starters, United won't seriously challenge for the title this season.  But they'll likely consolidate a place in the top 4 and set themselves up for a real title challenge the following year.
 
I think the United midfield as currently constructed is only behind Chelsea's in England...you name 4 clubs that have better midfields and I don't disagree but if they are in the top 10 out of, what, a hundred or so top league clubs then the claim isn't off.
 
I could be wrong but I though Schneiderlin prospered over the past two years when they brought Wanyama in to play the furthest back in the midfield.  I agree offensively he's limited but that would be the 3 midfielders I'd expect in tight defensive games vs top 4 clubs and in the Champions League.  Against other clubs, you'll probably see LVG drop one of the Sch's and put Mata or Di Maria in the trio.  LVG is addicted to flexibility, he now has it.
 
Reports today are suggesting they'll bring in a striker but looking at the market there aren't many options.  Otamendi could be coming in for the CB position.
 

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I would echo what others are saying in that it seems like you now have one too many defensive minded midfielders.  I love Schneiderlin as a player and I'm not happy he went to your lot but he's best in that CDM role -- he and Wanyama were more anchoring together.  If it weren't LVG, i'd almost expect a 4-2-x-x base with the personnel you have.
 
I'd suspect that you were hard after Schneiderlin and found out you could get Schweinsteiger and just opted for grabbing both.  I don't know how much Bastian really has left, it wouldn't shock me if he's mostly a sub by the end of the season as I think the rest of your midfield options will be more effective.  I think you're a bit premature on the best or 2nd best in the league stuff, especially since you'll have to decide what to do with Fellaini.  United papered over a lot of cracks with Fellaini winning long balls -- if these moves crowd him out of the side then there's a lot of attacking intent to make up and the players you've added just aren't really attackers (Bastian at his pomp aside).
 
The biggest question mark for me remains De Gea.  I wake up every day hoping to see him transferred out which is amazing given the rough start that he had.  I think the drop off from De Gea to anyone you can get at this point is massive and likely to be felt, so while I think United have had another good summer (although most of last summer's good summer didn't work), I don't think i'd be comfortable saying top 4 is likely.  The back line is still poor and you might lose the player who was in my opinion good for a dozen or more points himself last season.  Could be a very bad combination.  Di Maria to PSG also has a lot of chatter, which is a move that would make sense for all involved, I think.
 

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Zomp said:
I could be wrong but I though Schneiderlin prospered over the past two years when they brought Wanyama in to play the furthest back in the midfield.  I agree offensively he's limited but that would be the 3 midfielders I'd expect in tight defensive games vs top 4 clubs and in the Champions League.  Against other clubs, you'll probably see LVG drop one of the Sch's and put Mata or Di Maria in the trio.  LVG is addicted to flexibility, he now has it.
 
This is a good point, though I think it'll be Zomp-favorite Herrera getting the bench when Mata or DiMaria takes the 3rd role against "lesser" competition. 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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soxfan121 said:
 
This is a good point, though I think it'll be Zomp-favorite Herrera getting the bench when Mata or DiMaria takes the 3rd role against "lesser" competition. 
 
Agreed.  One thing LVG essentially never did last year is play Herrera and Mata together in a midfield three.  He was willing to play them at the same time if one was on the wing or a wing midfielder in the diamond but he clearly didn't want to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with them as two of his three central players.  Also, he almost never played Di Maria centrally in a three man midfield, despite him really thriving in that role in his last year in Madrid.
 

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Lloris has fractured his wrist during training and could reportedly miss the start of the season. 
 
Assuming United are now highly unlikely to purchase him as a replacement if De Gea were to be sold to Madrid, meaning we could see Valdez as our #1 shot stopper this season.
 
Valdez is more than a capable keeper but given his career struggles playing balls in the air in La Liga (which also happens to be one the toughest aspects of the game for goalies to adjust to in the premier league), I can definitely see this as one of weak spots in a team that's gearing up to challenge for the title. 
 
Lloris' injury makes it more imperative that United play hardball with Madrid and reinforces my opinion that if Real don't offer the world record fee for De Gea or include Ramos as a part of the deal as United are seemingly interested in, United should tell them to kick sand. United can then go compete on all fronts with a world class keeper for a season while Real try to take down Barcelona with Navas between the goal posts. 
 

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Darmian has played wingback almost exclusively at Torino and for Italy under Conte. Given Van Gaal's love of the wingback, Darmian and Shaw might tempt him to switch back to a defensive 3.
 

Zomp

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Its a possibility, definitely.  But then you'd have to have 2 of Herrerra, Mata, and Di Maria on the bench assuming Depay takes on the Robben role.
 
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Van Gaal played 3-5-2 at the World Cup because of two factors.  One was Strootman's injury but the other was that he just didn't have faith in any 2 of the Dutch defenders.  Given that the team prospered when we switched to a 4-3-3 last year I'd like to see it continue...if he buys a center back I think its a given we'll stay with it.
 

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Reading on BBC that Valdes refused to play with the reserves and LVG opted to announce to the press that he will be sold. Nice way of going about business. If I was a ManU fan, it would make me nervous having him as a coach. But on the other hand, it makes the sale of DeGea seem more remote. Clearly more chips to fall in this summer saga.
 

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Stanley Steamer said:
Reading on BBC that Valdes refused to play with the reserves and LVG opted to announce to the press that he will be sold. Nice way of going about business. If I was a ManU fan, it would make me nervous having him as a coach. But on the other hand, it makes the sale of DeGea seem more remote. Clearly more chips to fall in this summer saga.
 
I don't think DeGea will be sold, I think he'll leave on a free at the end of the season. 
 

Zomp

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Stanley Steamer said:
Reading on BBC that Valdes refused to play with the reserves and LVG opted to announce to the press that he will be sold. Nice way of going about business. If I was a ManU fan, it would make me nervous having him as a coach. But on the other hand, it makes the sale of DeGea seem more remote. Clearly more chips to fall in this summer saga.
 
Why would it make you nervous?
 

Stanley Steamer

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Zomp said:
Why would it make you nervous?
I like coaches who run the shop, but are discreet about it. I think "flamboyant" better describes LVG, and I'm just waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. At some point, it looks likely he'll say or do the wrong thing, and it will mean his demise. If he wins, then there will be no problem.
It's not that I really worry about it, just that it would not fill me with confidence as a supporter.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Stanley Steamer said:
I like coaches who run the shop, but are discreet about it. I think "flamboyant" better describes LVG, and I'm just waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. At some point, it looks likely he'll say or do the wrong thing, and it will mean his demise.
 
Its not shoes that he likes to drop.
 

Zomp

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Stanley Steamer said:
I like coaches who run the shop, but are discreet about it. I think "flamboyant" better describes LVG, and I'm just waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. At some point, it looks likely he'll say or do the wrong thing, and it will mean his demise. If he wins, then there will be no problem.
It's not that I really worry about it, just that it would not fill me with confidence as a supporter.
 
I guess.  That's his style though.  I don't think he's any more arrogant than Mourinho.  He has one of the best track records coaching European football.  History shows it ends ugly, sure, but doesn't it always? IMO you need a huge ego to manage this club.  Ferguson had one.  Moyes certainly didn't. 
 

Zomp

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So LVG has told MUTV that he'd still like to bring in two players to strengthen the squad.  Centerback is obviously one of them but nobody can figure out if the other is keeper or striker.  This comes amid reports that any bids for Chicharito have been turned down because Van Gaal expects him to back up Rooney.  I'm sure if the right striker would come along LVG would buy him and then sell Chicharito but its difficult to know what the plan is.
 

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I don't think Mueller is a realistic target at this point. After losing Kroos and Schweiny in two consective summers, I feel fans might full scale riot if another integral member of Bayern/the German national team was sold to a team abroad.
 

Zomp

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Looks like Di Maria is gone.  A fee of 45 million GBP has been quoted, making it a loss of about 15 million GBP for one season.  There is no question the talent is there.  He started off really well but the injury then attempted burglary of his house seemed to shake him and he never really regained his form or confidence.
 

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De Gea will not play against Spurs and didn't travel with the team to London, according to various reports.
 
They should just get it over with and move on.  A swap of De Gea for Navas plus cash makes a lot of sense, as it gives United a good keeper in return plus there is more room for both parties to claim that they won the dick-measuring contest since Navas' true value is uncertain.
 

Zomp

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Completely agree MMS.  This news has significantly lowered their bargaining position and made it near impossible for De Gea to stay.  Getting Ramos was a pipedream all along but I think they could have gotten a fee north of 25 million pounds and even then I wanted him to play one more season for us then go out on a free.  It would have been a nice statement from the club.
 

Zomp

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3 wins on the bounce for United.  2 in the Prem and one very important match tonight in the Champions League qualifiers.  The job isn't done by any stretch but having a 3-1 lead is so much better than 2-1 when a home goal can kill you.
 
Biggest news, to me, at the start of the season has been the 4-2-3-1 formation with Blind in defense.  The back 4 has been very good so far (I read a stat the other day that said since United have switched back to the back 4 last November they've allowed the fewest number of goals in the Premier league ) and Blind hasn't been physically dominated...yet.  Memphis Depay had himself a night.  Its surprising to see how well built he is physically for someone who is only 21.
 
IF Pedro comes along, I can't help but wonder if he'll slide into the wide right position then have Mata run through the middle ahead of the 2 holding midfielders.
 
 
--------------------------------Rooney-------------------------------
Depay-----------------------Mata---------------------------Pedro
----------------------------2 Schmidfielders-----------------------
 

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I liked what I saw out of Depay but have to temper expectations given that he was against a Belgian defense, which like Dutch defenses, haven't got the memo that he likes to cut inside to the right like an inverted Robben.
 
Fellaini showed again that he can be valuable for United in the CAM position but personally I think United could do the most damage with Herrera (given they don't buy another striker or decide to experiment with Rooney lined up behind Januzaj or Chicharito) playing at the top of a 3 man midfield. United actually played the best footy last season when Herrera combined with Mata on the right and found Rooney and other attackers making runs from deep. 
 

Zomp

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Herrera looked like a completely different player in the 10 role than in the 6 role along side Carrick.  Here's hoping on the weekend Herrera starts behind Rooney with 2 of Carrick/Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin behind him.
 

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New information coming out about the Martial transfer makes some of the bonuses seem much more realistic.  Numerous sources are claiming that it is is really 7.2m pounds for (a) 25 international caps before June 2019 (b) scoring 25 goals total in all competitions before June 2019 and (c) the Ballon D'or.
 
B should happen unless he is a total bust and A is realistic if he cements a regular starting (or key sub) role in the national team.  C is obviously a long shot for anybody.  So you could have many scenarios where he is a good-but-not-particularly-special player - ie, an Anelka type career - and  ends up costing 50m pounds.  But he won't cost 57m unless he is a world beater.
 
On Football Weekly Extra yesterday, the guys were suggesting that c) is awarded if he finishes in the Top 20 or something in the Ballon D'or (which I assume pretty much means getting some votes of any kind). So that's not out of the realm of possibility either; regardless, that's an insane amount of money for an Anelka-to-Arsenal type purchase.
 

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So, is there any question now that Manchester intentionally fucked up the transfer at this point?
 

Zomp

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The Guardian reported yesterday when it came out that Mendes was in Manchester that he and De Gea actually believe that Madrid fucked it up on purpose.
 

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Zomp said:
The Guardian reported yesterday when it came out that Mendes was in Manchester that he and De Gea actually believe that Madrid fucked it up on purpose.
 
Right. Or that's just the spin they've been using to convince De Gea to stay.
 

Zomp

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Even if it doesn't have an official release clause I'm sure there is a handshake deal saying if Madrid comes in for xx amount then he can leave.
 
Either he stays for four years, or United get a higher fee for him.  Either way this is great news for the club.
 

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Zomp said:
Even if it doesn't have an official release clause I'm sure there is a handshake deal saying if Madrid comes in for xx amount then he can leave.
 
Either he stays for four years, or United get a higher fee for him.  Either way this is great news for the club.
 
 
Well .. if it becomes the accepted narrative , I don't think acquiring a reputation for deliberately sabotaging deals to screw over a player's wishes is particularity good news.
 

Zomp

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Reports coming out that Rooney is out for tomorrow with a hamstring injury.  If true, I guess the decision comes down to Martial up front or Fellaini.  I THINK he'll go with Fellaini.
 

Zomp

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By the way today's conference was brilliant and, imo, Van Gaal at his best.  He was pretty open and patient with questions but put a lot of thought into answering them.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjX4eLEF1c0
 
 
Check out around the 5-7 minute mark when he talks about Martial.
 

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Sucks about Luke Shaw. He's a very good young player who was coming into his own. Hopefully a successful recovery and a long career.
 

Zomp

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Ugh its so awful.  After an injury cursed first season he came back in incredible shape and was one of our bright spots in this (early) season. You hope he can make a full recovery but he may not play again this season.
 
Tough loss to a good PSV side. Memphis' goal was pure filth but he was still inconsistent.  Thought Martial's hold up play and distribution from up front was surprisingly strong for a 19 year old kid.
 

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I agree about Martial.  The Premier League is a different beast but he looked plenty capable of playing as a lone striker, holding off defenders, and bringing others into the play.  And he clearly also has the pace to run behind the defense and pose that kind of threat.
 
It will be interesting to see what LVG does with the LB position. Rojo could be OK as a stay-at-home LB but I don't see him as a viable option in a system oriented toward having a very strong spine (with relatively conservative CMs) and attacking down the flanks through combination play between the fullbacks and wingers.  And playing a hacker at LB could really hurt Memphis, arguably your best offensive player.  So Blind seems the most likely replacement, but that disrupts the CB partnership between him and Smalling, which seemed to be working surprisingly well.   Darmian also played on the left a fair amount at Torino, so moving him to LB and playing Valencia at RB could be another option.
 

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It'd be tough to move him off CB right now, but I could see Rojo coming back into the team at CB while Daley Blind moves to LB.
 

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Once again Martial impressed me with his hold up play and physicality.  He's also got pace for days.
 
45 passes leading up to Mata's goal.  BIG win.