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Machado to Padres for 10 years, 300M, opt-out halfway through

Discussion in 'MLB Discussion' started by DeadlySplitter, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Fred not Lynn

    Fred not Lynn Dick Button Jr. SoSH Member

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    If they want to run hard, they should join a track team...
     
  2. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    Just what the San Diego Padres needed, a great, lovable player that will bring people off the beaches and into Petco.
     
  3. santadevil

    santadevil Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    You get some applause from me with this post
    :drums:
     
  4. shaggydog2000

    shaggydog2000 Member SoSH Member

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    I lived in San Diego. Nobody in the press will say a single bad word about him or his hustle. The fans will blandly accept him. He will be king of the town with no effort.
     
  5. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    We have a place down there and head down a lot. What I meant was they won’t get all excited about him as a potential great addition to the team/difference maker. It’ll be like “is this that new guy?” when he comes up.
     
  6. Wingack

    Wingack Yankee Mod Dope SoSH Member

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    This kid voices how I feel right now...

     
  7. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    I hope that kid grows up to be the GM of the Yankees one day.
     
  8. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Could you explain that? Isn't AAV * Years = Total Value, regardless of how that money is allocated to the various years and different buckets?

    I realize that to get to apples-to-apples with the Padres, you'd have to make assumptions about what years 9 and 10 would look like, and maybe Machado didn't want to take the risk that he wouldn't be worth $25M those two years. But I'm curious how that CWS deal was going to get to "higher value" than the Padres' deal.
     
  9. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Rosenthal didn't tell us how it would exceed the Padres deal so we don't know. He did mention incentives and vesting options so maybe it was an 8 year deal with 2 vesting option years attached.
     
  10. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Yep, exactly, which would have taken it to 10/320:

    Verified account 2m2 minutes ago

    The Chicago #WhiteSox's final offer to Manny Machado was an eight-year, $250 million guarantee with a $35 million option in 2027 a $35 million option in 2028, making the potential total worth $320 million. The option years vested with 550 plate appearances the previous season
     
  11. nvalvo

    nvalvo Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    I think he should have taken the Chicago deal. The money is also huge, and he could post gigantic numbers in Armour Square.

    In any case, it's fun to have actual news to talk about.
     
  12. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    That rant was great. But I hope the kid's dad gently explains the history of the Yankees so as not to too greatly disillusion the child.
     
  13. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    either Machado wanted the 100% guarantee, the eye-popping 300M+ as a benchmark, he factored in SD fans/weather vs Chicago's, or the opt-out was critical.

    at the same time, this contradicts this quote, so who knows.

    Daryl Van Schouwen‏Verified account @CST_soxvan 6h6 hours ago
    Ken Williams: “We could not go that $300M level.”
     
  14. uncannymanny

    uncannymanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    At the time of your post, I didn’t see the years, which I suspected were less than 10. According to JA’s post, yes, 50 million difference in guaranteed money.
     
  15. Manramsclan

    Manramsclan Member SoSH Member

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    I disagree about fan apathy here in San Diego. Padres fans are going to be excited. I didn't understand the Hosmer deal last year, and still don't. This deal, however, makes sense. This is the first time in a long time (maybe ever?) that a superstar has become available at age 26. The guy is one of the best players in the league offensively. No franchise gets a chance to sign a guy like that for only money, much less the Padres.

    Their arrow is pointing up. They don't have good pitching, but they have some promising arms at the major league level not to mention what they have in the minors. If Tatis, Jr., Urias and one of Franchy Cordero/Franmil Reyes pan out they will have money to go get pitching.

    The Padres now have a monopoly on the sporting interest of San Diego fans. If they build a winner they will own this town. After all, they literally are the only game in it.
     
  16. Ford Frick's Asterisk

    Ford Frick's Asterisk Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks for participating, Chicago. Enjoy your parting gifts of Yonder Alonso and Jon Jay.

    *
     
  17. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Hell, he should be GM of the Dolphins right now.

    Yeah, if they can't afford the Machado contract, there's no chance they are getting Harper. They might be better off with a Keuchel consolation prize anyway, as their rotation is almost as shaky as San Diego's (and I'm a fan of their Luchessi and Lauer).
     
  18. sean1562

    sean1562 Member SoSH Member

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    does anyone think strasburg will opt out of his deal? San Diego native that never really craved the spotlight
     
  19. Jerry’s Curl

    Jerry’s Curl lurker

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    This is bad new for the Sox IMO, that becomes the baseline for a Betts extension now.
     
  20. jmm57

    jmm57 Member SoSH Member

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    June 4, 2016: Traded by the San Diego Padres with cash to the Chicago White Sox for Fernando Tatis Jr. (minors) and Erik Johnson.

    At least they got that -0.1 WAR from Big Game James over 435 innings.
    Think if they put the money they spent on him towards a Machado they could be the ones with the Machado/Tatis left side?
     
  21. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    17,000
    Really? $300M over a decade is a lot of years but seems like a bargain for Mookie.
     
  22. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Betts will be two years older when he his FA. I’d expect fewer years but higher AAV.
     
  23. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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  24. BoSox Rule

    BoSox Rule Member SoSH Member

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    That they’re the same age and Machado is already a FA is kind of an important distinction there though, Pete.
     
  25. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    They traded Quintana for Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease in 2017, the #3 and #25 overall prospects right now, so that kind of balances the Shields fiasco.
     
  26. Old Fart Tree

    Old Fart Tree the maven of meat Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That’s a LOT of money to pay a guy I don’t like.
     
  27. themuddychicken

    themuddychicken lurker

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    I think it is important to remember, when considering what kind of standard this sets for future guys like Mookie, that there's a discount built into the Machado deal due to his attitude issues. if you replace Machado's attitude with Mookie's this would probably be a $350 million contract. It's Machado's only flaw and without it he'd easily be worth $35 million a year.
     
  28. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    If it wasn't for his attitude, who would pay Machado $35M per year?

    I mean there were three to four teams (Yanks, Pads, Phils and ChiSox) who were bidding for his services. The White Sox were a hair over what the Pads offered, but not that much. I don't think that his attitude cost him $5M per year (or $50M over his ten-year contract) and quite honestly, I think that was a bunch of BS to begin with. There are plenty of dudes with bad attitudes, it's professional sports.
     
  29. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    this is a ridiculous post... there was no discount here
     
  30. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    Agree w/ JMOH that attitude has near zero impact on contracts, and never really has - at least for the elite guys. In 1998 - the two highest paid players were Gary Sheffield and Albert Belle - elite players have never had to take a discount for being jerks.
     
  31. azsoxpatsfan

    azsoxpatsfan lurker

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    I understand the dislike of Machado, but he's not ALL bad

     
  32. radsoxfan

    radsoxfan Member SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't totally discount his attitude factoring into the eventual contract here. I'm not saying it makes sense or should play a role, but in the right situation it can.

    By all accounts the Yankees were essentially out on Machado largely because of Steinbrenner. Wasn't this at least in part attitude related? Even if 10/300 is "market value", the fact that the Yankees (or another team potentially) didn't jump in and try to beat that seems relevant in this case.
     
  33. themuddychicken

    themuddychicken lurker

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    i believe there was. just given his age and production at a prime defensive position, and the fact that Trout (who obviously should be the highest-paid) signed an early extension 5 years ago, Machado deserved to be the highest-paid player in the game on a per-year basis. shortstops who can hit are one of the most valuable commodities in the game and a 26 year-old one doesn't come on the market as a free agent very often.

    $30 million a year is less than David Price signed for 4 years ago and it will likely be less than what Harper signs for. remove the attitude and Machado would be worth much more than Harper, who appears to have peaked 4 years ago and is already a defensive liability.

    given the money teams have to spend and how rarely elite talent becomes available $30 million a year isn't really a big deal anymore like it was 5 years ago. the numbers keep going up and in 2019 10/$300 million is a little low for someone as talented as Machado.

    get ready for a shock in 2 years when Mookie is on the market. $35 million a year will be seen as a bargain for him.

    -edit- part of how the "discount" gets applied is by teams not being in on the bidding. as mentioned above, the Yankees had no interest in Machado and they have a lot of money and a big opening at 3b where he'd fit great. Boston wasn't interested in him, and without the attitude i'd have loved for Boston to sign him for 10/$300 (he's an upgrade from Xander, who's a free agent next year). adding teams like NY and Boston to the bidding tends to lead to bigger contracts.
     
    #83 themuddychicken, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  34. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    Machado received the most money an athlete ever got in American sports. How much did his attitude hold him back? It's not like he "settled" for 10/$200M. In a depressed (and you can argue the causes of this depression) market, where a lot of big players were out of the running (no Boston, no NY Mets or Dodgers or Angels, and really, the Yankees didn't "need" him) he still got a bunch of cash from a team that hasn't made this big of a free agent acquisition since Bruce Hurst and Jack Clark in 1989.

    The Padres were bidding against the White Sox, who again, offered Machado slightly more than he received from San Diego. I'm not sure how he left money on the table.
     
  35. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    NY specifically is definitely valuing character or attitude or whatever you want to call that quite a bit these days when choosing who to go after. That’s IMO the bulk of why they seemingly much prefer Arenado to Machado, leadership, clubhouse presence, that kind of thing.
     
  36. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That's quite possibly true. But the truth is ... none of us have any idea whether the Yankees made an offer to Machado, and we're not likely to find out. So while I understand your inclination to see things in a certain light, there's just no way of knowing whether that idea holds water.
     
  37. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    Arenado also plays third base, Machado wants to play shortstop.

    And unlike ARod, it doesn't seem like he wanted to move. No matter how slimming pinstripes make him look.
     
  38. Soxfan in Fla

    Soxfan in Fla Member SoSH Member

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    That’s believable considering they’ve always targeted nothing but the highest character players in free agency.
     
  39. SemperFidelisSox

    SemperFidelisSox suzyn SoSH Member

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    Were the Yankees valuing character and leadership when they re-signed Chapman?
     
  40. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Don't be silly. They signed Chapman as their one example to show how a player with a troubled past can become a saint by donning pinstripes
     
  41. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    This was never really true, he just wanted to prove he could play both positions to teams before free agency and he's much more valuable at 3B where he is special defensively than he is at SS where he is adequate. He will be at 3B in SD once Tatis is up and maybe even before that.
     
  42. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    All I'm doing is reporting what I see, not saying I agree with it or it's wise. I think some of it is their worries about public perception and the flak they took in the wake of the Chapman acquisition and re-signing is a factor. If you put Arenado's personality/temperament into Machado's body, I think he's a Yankee right now. SD jumped in after they saw NY was not really in and their competition was just PHI and CHW.
     
  43. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Actually we know pretty much exactly what happened here, NY said publicly in Dec before meeting with Machado that they weren't going to $300M, they offered him/Lozano something around $220M at the meeting in Dec (not a 'formal offer' but they were ready to move right then according to reports), and when Machado wasn't interested and made it clear that he was going to the highest bidder, NY basically moved on while keeping a toe in the water in case he changed his mind or his market fell apart.
     
  44. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    Wait a second, so the Yankees were willing to sign Machado (despite his bad attitude) if he agreed to their (very below market) terms?

    This isn't the Yankees developing a conscience, it's the Yankees being cheap.

    You're correct about that. My bad.
     
  45. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No ... you know what they wanted you to hear. If you believe that these stories you hear are the whole truth, then I don't know what to tell you
     
  46. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    It's them putting a value on a player, which includes the whole package, on field, off field, things they know much more about than we do. I guess you could call it 'cheap' but it's also pretty much where the market was for him until SD got involved maybe 3-4 weeks ago.

    Also to be clear, I'm not saying NY is 'developing a conscience'. I think it's more that they already have so many pieces in place that they have the luxury of at least trying to only add big ticket guys who they're completely comfortable with. Machado and Harper aren't in this category, Arenado and Trout and Betts and Lindor (depending on need obv) would all be in the latter category presumably.
     
  47. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    I don't see any reason to doubt this specifically, but as always, YMMV.

    Actions are what we do know, and NY's actions following this meeting were that they signed Tulo and LeMahieu and the info leaks (and keep in mind, the front office consists of many different people, each with their own ties to different reporters, it's not just one entity with one voice) that they were out on Machado ended up proving true. Joel Sherman has better NY sources than anyone, and he's been saying NY is out on Machado for months now, and it seems pretty clear that he was right (if they had ever pushed for him after Dec, I am pretty sure we would have heard about it).
     
  48. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Honestly I think some of what happened was that NY heard along with everyone else that Machado really wanted to come to NY. When it became clear at/after their meeting that he was just going to take the highest offer no matter who it was from (as is his right, obviously), that played into the fears NY had about him (their front office was split on pursuing him from the beginning) that he might go into cruise control once he had signed his massive deal.

    Again, I'm not agreeing (or disagreeing) with how they approached this, but I do think this was at least a component of what happened.
     
  49. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    This seems pretty reasonable to me. I'd have the same fears.
     
  50. santadevil

    santadevil Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    I predict this signing will be terrible for the Padres.

    Machado now has his guaranteed contract, he'll rely on his talent and not work too hard going forward and will slowly become less and less of an impact player.

    Also, have fun with your money in San Diego Manny
    Glad you can stop trying to hurt players in the AL East with your dickish plays on the bases
     

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