Longhorn Football 2015: When do we get our horns back?

rguilmar

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It looks like there might have been enough interest in the general college football thread to do this. Feel free to add to this thread, mock the Horns, or otherwise contribute.
 
First, recapping 2014. Last year was the first year in the Charlie Strong era, and it was a tough one. 6-7 seasons with five blowout losses are not what Longhorn fans expect or accept. Most fans realize that he inherited a team that lacked a lot of talent, depth, and discipline. The dismissal of several players only made matters worse. The offense was awful, quarterback play was uneven at best, and special teams were terrible. The defense was actually pretty solid, and most games where the Horns gave up lots of points reflected the poor play on offense, not defense. The rise of TCU and Baylor as legitimate national title contenders only made matters worse. Texas fans will not take kindly to being seen as the fourth best program in the state (adding in A&M). On the plus side, some young players really developed last year. Also, like I said, the defense was very good. Strong had a very good year recruiting too, including stud linebacker Malik Jefferson (who will need to contribute as a true freshman) and QB Kai Locksley (who will be redshirted).
 
I look at 2015 as the beginning of the rebuilding of the program. Last year was always going to be a mess, so I think (hope?) that this is the year Charlie starts to turn it around. I'm hoping for a 7 or 8 win season, but part of me is dreading a four win season and another coaching change. Issues 1-3 for this team are quarterback, quarterback and quarterback. Will it be upperclassman Tyrone Swoopes or redshirt freshman Jerrod Heard? Neither instills much confidence, but one or both of them will lead a new-look Texas offense. Strong made the change to a spread tempo offense similar to those used by most Texas high school programs. Theoretically the bulk of the players should feel more at home in this system. I would prefer Heard because of what we saw last year out of Swoopes, plus Heard is more mobile which is important and today's college game. Beyond that, Johnathan Gray should lead the rushing attack. There are plenty of good-not-great wideouts. The wide receivers that emerge might depend on who has the better rapport with the starting QB, whoever that is.
 
Most of the offensive line is back, so there is experience there. They were so dreadful at times last year that I don't know if that is a good thing though. The defense was really good last year, and they will continue to play the base 3-3-5 with a Fox end. The Horns lost a TON of talent and tackles here, but it looks like they have solid replacements. For example, Malcom Brown was a beast last year and is gone to the NFL, but his replacement, Hassan Ridgeway, looks more than adequate. The D-Line in general looks solid, as does the rest of the defense. I'm less concerned than most about the lost talent here and expect another solid season. One key area of focus for the defense is forcing turnovers. While generally speaking the defense was the strength of the team last year, they forced a surprisingly few amount of turnovers.
 
Charlie Strong has traditionally put together solid special teams play. Last year was a disaster. Nick Rose looks solid enough as the place kicker. Punting will make me nervous all year though. The return game looks to have an infusion of young talent too. I'm hoping for more out of this unit.
 
I know a lot of Longhorn nation expects ten win seasons each and every year. Barring everything going right for the Horns and disasters for several other teams, that will not happen this year. I would consider 8-5 or 7-6 a successful season, depending on who the losses are to and how many games are blowouts. Another sub-500 season and Strongs seat starts to get pretty warm.
 

canderson

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The biggest negative from last year is Strong/his staff looked unprepared quite often. They screwed up a coin flip or two, made disastrous playcalling decisions, had tons of late playcalls sent in, etc. It was a disjointed mess. Hopefully those things are tightened down quite a bit, and hopefully we find someone who can throw a football. 
 
Everything else will fall into place for a 6 win year. I don't think Strong has a hot seat after this year no matter what, honestly. Texas will give him a few years because the admin realizes what he had to inherit. 
 
Shaka will be different since he has a cupboard that isn't bare. 
 

LeftyTG

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Not super exciting or anything, but I think Matthew Merrick may be joining this year's class late and not grey shirting, as was the original plan.
 

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canderson said:
The biggest negative from last year is Strong/his staff looked unprepared quite often. They screwed up a coin flip or two, made disastrous playcalling decisions, had tons of late playcalls sent in, etc. It was a disjointed mess. Hopefully those things are tightened down quite a bit, and hopefully we find someone who can throw a football. 
 
Honestly, these were my biggest issues with last season, as well. I didn't expect much because of what he inherited but for a coaching staff that preaches discipline as vehemently as they do, for them to have so many of those gaffes was really off putting. If memory serves, they would have won the UCLA game had it not been for that idiotic coin flip gaffe and then running a hurry-up offense while trying to protect a late lead. Those are the types of things that I expect to see improve this year.
 
For me, anything more than seven wins is gravy, considering the quarterback situation and the talent lost on defense. It will help that the offensive line has some experience and hopefully some continuity (remember, a lot of the o-line issues last year were due to the revolving door at center) but I don't have any faith in Swoopes becoming a viable quarterback and Heard is a complete unknown.
 
On a personal note, I'll be at a wedding about an hour outside of Chicago on Sept 5. The temptation to bail on the wedding and drive to South Bend is going to be very very very hard to resist.
 

rguilmar

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Bosoxen said:
 
Honestly, these were my biggest issues with last season, as well. I didn't expect much because of what he inherited but for a coaching staff that preaches discipline as vehemently as they do, for them to have so many of those gaffes was really off putting. If memory serves, they would have won the UCLA game had it not been for that idiotic coin flip gaffe and then running a hurry-up offense while trying to protect a late lead. Those are the types of things that I expect to see improve this year.
 
For me, anything more than seven wins is gravy, considering the quarterback situation and the talent lost on defense. It will help that the offensive line has some experience and hopefully some continuity (remember, a lot of the o-line issues last year were due to the revolving door at center) but I don't have any faith in Swoopes becoming a viable quarterback and Heard is a complete unknown.
 
On a personal note, I'll be at a wedding about an hour outside of Chicago on Sept 5. The temptation to bail on the wedding and drive to South Bend is going to be very very very hard to resist.
 
That was one of the things I had trouble defending to my friends who were against the hiring of Strong (not that they are Texas fans, they just like to bust my balls). Their argument is that Strong is in over his head. I don't buy that, but I can see how people would argue the case. 
 
I do find myself oddly excited about the upcoming season. Like everyone else, I think seven wins is about as good as it gets for this squad. I want to see some of the young guys play, and look forward to more close games. I probably turned off four or five games last year because the Horns were being blown out so badly...
 

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I am, and will forever be, a Syracuse fan first and foremost (yes, Syracuse does - technically - have a football team).  However, I married and Austin girl and ever since moving to Austin five years ago, I've picked up the Longhorns as a second team.  About a year ago, my wife started a job in the UT athletic department and interacts with the athletes and coaches on a daily basis, which has deepened my feeling of connection to the program.  I'm a believer in Charlie Strong and thought it was a great hire.  Like most in Austin, I have modest expectations for this year but am optimistic for next year.  The culture change is real and I do expect that, win or lose, Texas will be hard to play against.  This isn't exactly deep insight, but the future will come down to whether or not they can develop a QB.  I'm not sold on Swoopes or Heard, but am hopeful on Locksley.  I'm hoping to check out this season Austin Westlake's QB Sam Ehlinger, who recently commited to the Horns.  Maybe he'll be an answer (though Strong may not be around to reap the benefits if so).
 
FWIW, not sure if it has been reported, but I can confirm that Merrick is, in fact, enrolled and will not be grey shirting.  I'm not sure what recruit didn't make it to campus.
 

ethangl

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MLB Cecil Cherry, who had a LOT to say over the summer, is transferring after 4 days of camp. Kids these days.
 

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Winston Cherry also speculated that his son and head coach Charlie Strong aren't getting along right now.
 
http://www.burntorangenation.com/2015/8/11/9130325/cecil-cherry-texas-longhorns-transfer
 
Might there have been disciplinary issues on top of the playing time issue? It's not a leap to think that someone as vocal as Cherry might run afoul of a disciplinarian like Strong. I can only imagine Strong would only take so much chirping from someone who might vocally take issue with losing playing time.
 

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Apparently at practice Cherry just wasn't making the cut. Coaches were yelling at him a lot for bad positioning and missing entire plays. He was all talk, no performance. Charlie signed the release as soon as Cherry asked for it, so I imagine Strong isn't too fussed about it.
 

rguilmar

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Rumor has it that he's looking to transfer to USF, so maybe homesickness played a role too. Cherry's father indicated that the his son was a bad fit for the defensive scheme too.

The attendance other higher rated, more productive (so far) freshmen linebackers will lessen the blow. He is a three star recruit, so he was always going to have to put in the work next to the likes of Jefferson and Wheeler. I'm not saying he won't grow into a good or great player, just that he seemed to be struggling and was a notch below several other classmates. It looks like it was a tough transition for him.

I'm more concerned that only one of the Florida Five are actually in Texas right now.
 

rguilmar

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Just one of those days in Austin.

Redshirt freshman Duke Catalon is looking to transfer too. Same basic deal- young man a little buried on the depth chart looking for more playing time.

Reports on him were pretty solid last year before he got hurt. Looks like Foreman is getting reps behind Gray, and that either Chris Warren or Kirk Johnson (maybe both) had jumped ahead of Catalon.

He was heavily recruited out of high school, so I held out some hope for him. Oh well...
 

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No, that wouldn't be surprising at all, considering what was on the roster when Strong took over. Mack's recruiting had taken a massive nosedive, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Strong ride his first major recruiting class. Whatever happens, it'll happen with his guys.
 

rguilmar

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Season opener is Saturday night in South Bend. Pretty much everyone is picking the Irish to win it. I can't say I disagree as there are just too many question marks for Texas right now. Will Swoopes be a much improved QB? When and how will Heard be used? How does the O-Line hold up, especially with two true freshmen starting? How do the other freshmen perform? By my count, we are looking at seven frosh starters (Williams-LT, Vahe-RG, Burt-WR, Jefferson-MLB, Freemen-OLB, Bonney-CB, Dickson-P). How will the defense deal with the losses from last year's team? How improved are special teams (if at all)? How much can Ridgeway play? And that doesn't even to address the sheer size and talent of Notre Dame...
 
Given all of these questions, I think we are looking at something along the lines a 28-10 scoreline. I would love to be wrong, and in some ways I do think Texas matches up ok with the Irish, but Notre Dame is looking like they want to make the playoff. They're just too strong, but I do expect Texas to put up a good fight. 
 

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canderson said:
I predict a 17-6 loss.
 
This sounds about right. I expect the defense to put up a fight but the offense to continue its horrid ways from last year. Short of Swoopes actually becoming a quarterback, that's pretty much how I figure most of the season will go. To be fair, I think averaging 20 points per game should be enough to win 6-7 games with that defense. So I don't exactly expect a miserable season, just not a wildly successful one.
 
In news that only interests me, I found out yesterday that the wedding I'm going to is at 3:00, which gives me a glimmer of hope of at least catching the second half of Saturday's game. Maybe.
 

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BigSoxFan said:
How does the University of Texas end up with a scrub like Swoopes at QB?
Mack Brown told Barnett, yes Ohio State's starting QB, Texas wasn't interested despite him wanting to go there and instead recruited Swoops (who was 1-9 as a starting QB in high school).

That's a good start to the explanation.
 

thehitcat

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Bosoxen said:
 
This sounds about right. I expect the defense to put up a fight but the offense to continue its horrid ways from last year. Short of Swoopes actually becoming a quarterback, that's pretty much how I figure most of the season will go. To be fair, I think averaging 20 points per game should be enough to win 6-7 games with that defense. So I don't exactly expect a miserable season, just not a wildly successful one.
 
In news that only interests me, I found out yesterday that the wedding I'm going to is at 3:00, which gives me a glimmer of hope of at least catching the second half of Saturday's game. Maybe.
I hope you stayed at the wedding and had fun because well...anyway I hope the reception ran long. 
 

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I hope you stayed at the wedding and had fun because well...anyway I hope the reception ran long. 
I just got to the bar. Sounds like Swoopes didn't disappoint. I'm already starting to think wearing a Longhorns shirt to the bar for the after party was a bad idea.
 

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I missed the game except for a few minutes on the radio because i was camping. Has it been covered anywhere why Gray only got eight carries and none before the 3rd drive? For a team with such a huge question at QB, that's almost beyond comprehension.
 

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The worst part of all this is that after the disastrous end to last season, Strong publicly took responsibility for the mess, and said that this kind of thing would never, ever happen again at the University of Texas (or at least as long as he is HFC).
 
And on Saturday, nothing had changed. Terrible QB play, terrible OL play, terrible DL play (significant regression here), terrible DB play, terrible play calling - a uniformly awful performance, looking very much like the blowout losses to frog and piggy.
 
So if Strong is to be taken at his word that this kind of thing will never happen again, and it happens again, what are we to make of his fitness to be HFC at Texas?
 
This week is, I think, an important one for Charlie Strong's future at Texas. You could see the rage just below the surface at his presser today. He said he didn't talk to his coaching staff after the game or on Sunday because he didn't want to say anything he might regret. Either he makes some serious changes in coaching responsibilities and personnel, and beats up pretty good on Rice on Saturday, or he may start to lose people. If the team that played the domers shows up, we're looking at maybe 4-8. If Charlie is able to finally get through, make some personnel and coaching changes, maybe we can salvage something from this season. I choose, at this point, to believe that Charlie Strong cannot and will not burn his career and the Texas program through some futile loyalty to the clearly overmatched Shawn Watson and Tyrone Swoopes.
 

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WestMassExpat said:
I missed the game except for a few minutes on the radio because i was camping. Has it been covered anywhere why Gray only got eight carries and none before the 3rd drive? For a team with such a huge question at QB, that's almost beyond comprehension.
 
Strong said it was because we got down big early and Watson decided that passing was the only way to play catch-up.
 
Yuk yuk yuk.
 

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I fully expect Rice to take them into OT, and maybe even win.

Watson probably isn't around by Big 12 play. It doesn't mater who is coaching though, Swoops might be one of the 10 worst D1 starting QBs.
 

LeftyTG

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canderson said:
I fully expect Rice to take them into OT, and maybe even win.

Watson probably isn't around by Big 12 play. It doesn't mater who is coaching though, Swoops might be one of the 10 worst D1 starting QBs.
It just boggles my mind that Swoopes played QB at a 2A school, with a graduating class of 70, playing other similarly sized schools...and his senior year the team went 1-9.  You'd think that a high level QB recruit would just completely dismantle small town high school competition...and they went 1-9.  That is just astounding.
 

canderson

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Movement today.

Strong said tonight Jay Norvell will take over play-calling duties. Watson demoted, Strong said he is pissed but will do what's best. Strong is not going to call defensive plays this season now and will be more involved in the offense than he has before.

Heard got equal snaps with Swoopes today, too.
 

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I don't see how this is anything but a panic move -- it's literally four days from the season opener and they've already burned through co-OCs or playcallers or whatever the hell Strong was calling Watson and Wickline. Maybe there's small consolation to be taken here that Strong is demanding accountability among his staff, but on a macro level this move is half a year too late or a season too early. Obviously Notre Dame crushed us, but I find it hard to believe whatever deficiencies Strong observed weren't there to close out 2014 vs. TCU and Arkansas, or in spring practice, or in two-a-days. So now recruiting takes a double hit beyond the confidence lost in the deep loss.
 
Reasonable people can argue the extent to which Mack left the cupboard empty, but at some point the missteps of Strong's tenure are just as numbing. The UCLA coin flip gaffe; opening himself up (or the program opening him up) to be deposed over the Wickline OK State feud; pursuing Daylon Mack but losing Zach Gentry in the process and getting neither; changing OCs not even midstream. Realistically, when can we expect elite production from the quarterback -- maybe 2016 if Heard's lottery ticket cashes in or Locksley actually is a QB? Will Strong even still be with the program?
 

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What's the alternative here? Doing what Mack did and waiting about 10 years after the sell-by date to shitcan Greg Davis? Sure, the move is probably a little rash but this is a guy that demands absolute accountability. He would look pretty damn foolish if he throws players off the team left and right but doesn't wield the same axe on his coaching staff.
 
I'm honestly not at all surprised that the offense was so horrid. Swoopes is hopeless and Heard is as green and raw as you would expect a redshirt freshman to be. What was more concerning was the complete and utter lack of a pass rush and how quickly the secondary went from a strength to a weakness - though I'm willing to delay judgment on the secondary due to the aforementioned lack of a pass rush.
 
I've only seen the first half of the game so far, but what I've seen is not a team that would win six games. Kicking the shit out of Rice might make me feel better, but it would still be a far cry from making me feel confident in the team.
 

canderson

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To give a little bit of sympathy to Strong here, there is not a junior or senior on this roster that is really worth a damn. He has a team that is basically void of any talent that isn't an underclassman. That's a tough pill to take at first but usually shows dividends down the road. Now, that road best be short and straight but it's early yet. Strong has really had one recruiting cycle and created a top 10 class and a few of those kids looked great vs ND (Boyd and Malik). 
 
I don't see what Strong did as a panic at all, I just think he should've done it after the bowl game (can we even call that thing a game, it was so bad) instead of waiting after game 1. 
 
I'm going to hold back any thoughts on the defense until they get some reps and don't have to be on the field every 1:30. 
 

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I can understand why he didn't make the move after the Arky game. I would imagine he would have wanted to give his staff a full offseason to try to correct those issues and give Swoopes a chance to prove that he could apply what he learned. Neither one of those things happened, so Strong pulled the plug.
 
Watching the first half last night reminded me that David Ash would be the quarterback right now, had he not had to retire. I figure things would look a hell of a lot rosier right now with a senior at quarterback. I know there's no sense dwelling on that but it reminds me that the coaching staff was dealt a really shitty hand, which is compounded by the fact that Swoopes is just so terrible (that ball he bounced to Burt in the second quarter, which would have been a touchdown with even a mediocre throw, is all the evidence one needs that Swoopes just doesn't have it).
 

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The other encouraging thing is that Heard is now getting equal first-team reps.
 
If Charlie does get more involved with the offense, and if he is the person we think he is, we're going to see Heard handing off to a steady diet of Gray-Foreman-Warren, with some dinks and dunks to Daje, and only a few deep balls. That should get it done against Rice. But after that, I think we're in for a long season of growing up.
 

canderson

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Kremlin Watcher said:
The other encouraging thing is that Heard is now getting equal first-team reps.
 
If Charlie does get more involved with the offense, and if he is the person we think he is, we're going to see Heard handing off to a steady diet of Gray-Foreman-Warren, with some dinks and dunks to Daje, and only a few deep balls. That should get it done against Rice. But after that, I think we're in for a long season of growing up.
Apparently Heard didn't play against ND due to a concussion issue (coming off one, I mean). So, I agree. 
 

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I think the concussion issue was mis-reported. He had his bell rung a little but Charlie said no concussion. In any case, Heard had his helmet with him on the sideline in the second half, which would indicate no concussion, and he practiced Sunday.
 
I think either a) Watson is (was) stupidly devoted to Swoopes (which ended up costing him); or b) Charlie didn't want redshirt freshman Heard sacrificed and made damaged goods for the rest of the year by a vastly superior Notre Dame squad. Burn Swoopes, save Heard for conference play.
 

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Bosoxen said:
What's the alternative here? Doing what Mack did and waiting about 10 years after the sell-by date to shitcan Greg Davis? Sure, the move is probably a little rash but this is a guy that demands absolute accountability. He would look pretty damn foolish if he throws players off the team left and right but doesn't wield the same axe on his coaching staff.
Greg Davis's playcalling got them to, or at least, did not prevent them, from getting to the '10 BCS championship undefeated. And Mack likely would've been hoisting another trophy if Colt didn't get hurt. IMO, the problems were complacency, talent evaluation, and gambling wrong on Manny Diaz at DC. But sure, Davis could've been more innovative.
 
canderson said:
To give a little bit of sympathy to Strong here, there is not a junior or senior on this roster that is really worth a damn. He has a team that is basically void of any talent that isn't an underclassman. That's a tough pill to take at first but usually shows dividends down the road. Now, that road best be short and straight but it's early yet. Strong has really had one recruiting cycle and created a top 10 class and a few of those kids looked great vs ND (Boyd and Malik). 
 
I don't see what Strong did as a panic at all, I just think he should've done it after the bowl game (can we even call that thing a game, it was so bad) instead of waiting after game 1. 
 
I'm going to hold back any thoughts on the defense until they get some reps and don't have to be on the field every 1:30. 
I get your point, but your first part is hyperbole with them having Jonathan Gray, Sedrick Flowers, Hassan Ridgeway, and Desmond Jackson. Plus, Daje Johnson was the lone bright spot in the opener and has some promise, and Malcom Brown the DT would be a senior if he didn't leave early.
 
We're Texas; we shouldn't have to change coordinators during the season in a new coach's tenure. Anything else to me, if not panicking, is recklessness managing the staff. Hire the right guy at the outset, and spend the money on a sure thing for lieutenants. We've seen in the last years of Mack's tenure where f'ing around with coordinators got us.
 
Bosoxen said:
I can understand why he didn't make the move after the Arky game. I would imagine he would have wanted to give his staff a full offseason to try to correct those issues and give Swoopes a chance to prove that he could apply what he learned. Neither one of those things happened, so Strong pulled the plug.
 
Watching the first half last night reminded me that David Ash would be the quarterback right now, had he not had to retire. I figure things would look a hell of a lot rosier right now with a senior at quarterback. I know there's no sense dwelling on that but it reminds me that the coaching staff was dealt a really shitty hand, which is compounded by the fact that Swoopes is just so terrible (that ball he bounced to Burt in the second quarter, which would have been a touchdown with even a mediocre throw, is all the evidence one needs that Swoopes just doesn't have it).
Maybe Strong was right to further evaluate what he had with Watson after the bowl, but for it to be so soon after the opener, is one game this season really enough of a sample size to make the call unless there was outside pressure?
 

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Greg Davis's playcalling got them to, or at least, did not prevent them, from getting to the '10 BCS championship undefeated. And Mack likely would've been hoisting another trophy if Colt didn't get hurt. IMO, the problems were complacency, talent evaluation, and gambling wrong on Manny Diaz at DC. But sure, Davis could've been more innovative.
 
How much of the success of the 08-09 seasons was as a result of Davis' play calling and how much was as a result of McCoy's ability to improvise? Reasonable minds can differ but my untrained eye told me that Colt had much more to do with the way that team moved the ball than anything Davis did.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all saying Davis was the reason the program went to shit. I don't think you'll ever find anyone who says that it doesn't all lay at Mack Brown's feet. I was merely pointing out that I'd rather they be a little trigger happy with yanking an ineffective OC than wait until his style is stale and teams have found a way to easily stop it. I mean, people were calling for Davis' head even while VY was still kicking around in Austin. Mack kept him around far, far too long.
 
WestMassExpat said:
Maybe Strong was right to further evaluate what he had with Watson after the bowl, but for it to be so soon after the opener, is one game this season really enough of a sample size to make the call unless there was outside pressure?
 
When your presumptive leader and best offensive player gets only 8 carries, despite averaging five yards apiece, I'm pretty comfortable with saying that the play calling was putrid. It goes far beyond that when you place it in the context of this particular team, considering their God awful quarterback situation. I would have much preferred them run Gray 30 times and take the ball out of Swoopes' hands. They might have lost 24-3 but that, at least, would have been a defensible strategy. Slinging the ball around with a quarterback whose best attribute is throwing it at receivers' feet is not a game-winning strategy. The issue was further compounded by some of the worst offensive line play I've seen in a long time.
 
Maybe there was outside pressure but Watson and Wickline didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. The axe was likely to fall eventually, so why not try to salvage the season before it completely gets away?
 

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I'm sick of the "We are Texas, we should be better" statement. Being good has no bearing on the name on the jersey. Syracuse and Army used to be great too. 
 
To be good, you have to have good players, good coaching, and good talent evaluates. All three of those have been questioned in the past three years quite often. 
 

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canderson said:
I'm sick of the "We are Texas, we should be better" statement. Being good has no bearing on the name on the jersey. Syracuse and Army used to be great too. 
 
To be good, you have to have good players, good coaching, and good talent evaluates. All three of those have been questioned in the past three years quite often. 
Sorry in advance for the mini-rant -- this isn't meant to be directed at you, just the claim about the we should be better statement. Maybe we're saying the same thing.
 
If it was just a past, distant history of success, then yes, I'd agree. Yale and Army would have a legit gripe they're not crushing it now. Hell, if it was based on tradition, A&M should be in contention every year.
 
We should be better because of the underlying program elements:
  1. We crush most other programs financially. We've been at the top of revenue nationally for years, and in 2014 worth 7 percent more than the next-most-valuable Notre Dame.
  2. Recruiting hotbed. We're the dominant program in the state that has produced the most FBS recruits from 2008-2013. In 2013, we were a close third behind Florida and California for most NFL players by state.
  3. Sustained winning. We're third all time in wins among FBS teams. Despite the efforts of Mack in his later years and the early Strong gaffes, we're still a destination program.
So yes, I think we should be better because we're Texas -- because we shouldn't have to make value moves within the athletic department personnel and facilities, and that trickles down to getting good players, good coaching, and good talent evaluators. Personally, I still put most of the blame on the complacency and incompetence of Mack's last years. And everyone should get a mulligan or three. But still, to me with our resources, striking out on Watson/Wickline is ridiculous after doing so on Harsin, Diaz, and Applewhite (again, on the last three, not Strong's fault).
 

WestMassExpat

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Bosoxen said:
 
Maybe there was outside pressure but Watson and Wickline didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. The axe was likely to fall eventually, so why not try to salvage the season before it completely gets away?
 
The whole offensive side of the ball looks toxic now. I'd argue it's unrealistic to expect Norvell, who hasn't called plays since 2007 at UCLA, to be substantially different from Watson.
 
I just wonder who realistically saw a scenario going into the season where they'd make a change after one game.
 

Bosoxen

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WestMassExpat said:
 
The whole offensive side of the ball looks toxic now. I'd argue it's unrealistic to expect Norvell, who hasn't called plays since 2007 at UCLA, to be substantially different from Watson.
 
I just wonder who realistically saw a scenario going into the season where they'd make a change after one game.
 
I think everyone expected them to struggle on offense. The extent to which they struggled, which precipitated the change, was probably far more eye-opening than even the most pessimistic prediction. It's probably too early to say whether Norvell will affect any kind of positive change but I think we can all agree that your initial statement is 100% correct.
 

WestMassExpat

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Maybe this excerpt from the AP story on the game was already out there, but it was new to me:
 
But Strong changed play callers this week, taking the job from assistant head coach Shawn Watson and giving it to first-year wide receivers coach Jay Norvell. Watson had insisted Heard wasn't ready to start and was woefully behind Swoopes, who was 5-8 as a starter in his career, in development.
 
 
 
Strong was saying leading up to the opener that they were close, but this is saying Watson thought there was a huge gap in Swoopes favor. I guess this gives more insight into Watson's demotion, if true.
 
Optimism: we scored more than 10 points for the first time in three games back to last year.
Pessimism: we gave up 4 TDs to Rice.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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WestMassExpat said:
Pessimism: we gave up 4 TDs to Rice.
 
We played something like 20 freshmen last night. There were several defensive series during which the entire lineup was made up of freshmen. Jackson and Ridgeway are still coming back from injuries. They are almost playing with a high school defense of very talented, very fast, very inexperienced guys. It'll get better.
 

canderson

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There was a ton of talent on the field, they were all just 18 years old. If they don't fire Charlie in two years I think this team will again be a strong team.
 

WestMassExpat

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To clarify, I had a note of pessimism for this season.
 
But yes, I've been optimistic we'd turn it around every year since 2010. And thank goodness Heard is getting his shot.
 
All I want at this point is a chance against OU and maybe if four or five things fall in our favor, a shot for the league.
 

sachmoney

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It only took Patterson two years to get fired! Take that, Dave Brandon!
 
It sounds a lot like the Brandon situation to be honest. President pushes a guy with business "acumen." That guy alienates fans and alumni and gets fired. Just things happened quicker?
 

canderson

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I had December in my family pool, damn. 
 
At least they hired Shaka ... if I'm Charlie I'm pretty damn nervous now though. 
 
Edit: I should add this happened almost certainly because a large portion of the major donor base hated him and refused to give to UT. 
 

Bosoxen

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Good fucking riddance. I just hope he didn't poison the well too much.
 

LeftyTG

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sachmoney said:
It only took Patterson two years to get fired! Take that, Dave Brandon!
 
It sounds a lot like the Brandon situation to be honest. President pushes a guy with business "acumen." That guy alienates fans and alumni and gets fired. Just things happened quicker?
supposedly (at least according to talk radio here in Austin) the last straw was when the various coaches told Fenves they had no confidence in Patterson.  Both Strong and Smart have made references to the fact that they don't deal with Patterson, but one of his assistants.  My wife told me a week or two ago that she was riding in an elevator with Fenves and the football coaching staff at DKR and that there was a weird vibe.  I didn't think anything of it at the time.