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LL Cool 22: Lower Leagues (Leagues 1, 2, Non-League & EFL Trophy)

Discussion in 'Breakfast with Gazza (with Sachmoneious Bullcrap)' started by Infield Infidel, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    Lots of changes this season, and not everyone likes them

    1. The Football League changed it's name to EFL, which, meh. The change was probably made to make it sound more like EPL.

    2. Johnstone's Paint Trophy is now EFL Trophy since there's no sponsor. Teams in Leagues 1 and 2 voted to allow 16 academy teams from select Premier and Championship clubs to be added to the now EFL Trophy. The EFL Trophy has pretty low attendance so adding academies was seen as a way to boost attendance. The voting was based on these being U-21 teams, but now EFL is saying that it will be U-23 teams and include 4 over-age players (like the Olympics). League 1&2 teams are not exactly happy about this The plans are coming out in fits and starts and the season starts next month. Many fans also view it as a precursor to B-teams like in Spain. More here: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36530076 http://www.espnfc.com/efl-trophy/story/2904442/fans-unhappy-over-under-23-team-plans-for-efl-trophy

    The format for EFL trophy proposed is 64 teams in 16 four-team groups (previously it was 48 team knockout), each group having an academy team. After that it's 32 teams in knockout form. They might add PKs to the group stage for an added point, they haven't decided if there will be extra time in the knockout rounds, but if they do they will have a fourth substitution. A lot is up in the air with not a ton of time before the tourney starts

    3. As was discussed in this thread, the proposal to add a League 3 in 2018, and making the top 5 divisions 20 teams each.
     
    #1 Infield Infidel, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  2. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    In other news, AFC Wimbledon was promoted (along with Northampton Town, Oxford United and Bristol Rovers), while Milton Keynes Dons was relegated from Championship, so they'll be in the same league for the first time. Interestingly, fans of MK Dons view the matchup more of as a rivalry (since they don't really have a rival), while AFC Wimbledon don't even want to call it a rivalry.
     
  3. SoxFanInCali

    SoxFanInCali has the rich, deep voice of a god and the penis of Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    They may not call it a rivalry, but "Where were you when you were us?" is a phenomenal chant.
     
  4. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't get resistance to the idea of Spanish-style "B" teams, but I don't get a lot of things about England.

    Seems to me to be a good way to get younger (often English?) players competitive games against comparable talent. Chelsea's "B" team vs. (pick a lower tier club) would seem to be a win for everyone.

    Maybe if the "B" teams were forced to play as the away team in the Cup competition? Would fans of lower-tier clubs be less prickly about the idea if it were a chance to sell out the ground and "beat" a big club?
     
  5. Titans Bastard

    Titans Bastard has sunil gulati in his sights Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    From what I understand, "B" teams are unpopular among most supporters of lower-league clubs in Germany. They are viewed as taking the spot of "real" clubs. "B" teams tend to be poorly supported and offer little to independent clubs - "B" teams have minimal home atmosphere and they don't bring much traveling support, either.

    In England, integration of B teams into the pyramid would result in the displacement of dozens of traditional League 1/2/Conference clubs into lower levels and I can't imagine they'd be very happy about that. You might suggest that this would be an opportunity to rework the English pyramid and allow for more regionalization. I'd agree, but it's hard to get anything like that done in England. England's pyramid is a particularly byzantine patchwork of old leagues that have been stitched together over time. They all have their own fiefdoms and agendas and nobody will want to be subsumed into a new structure.
     
  6. The Price Is Wrong

    The Price Is Wrong Banned

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    Asking out of ignorance, but do they have a league specifically intended for the B teams of top-level club sides? I guess if I didn't want to pay however-many-quid to see Arsenal @ Spurs but I could get decent seats to watch Arsenal B play Spurs B for 5-10 pounds, I might find that idea quite appealing.
     
  7. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    There is the Professional Development League (formerly Academy League, formerly Reserve League). There are U21 and U18 divisions, split into two leagues (Top Leagues sponsored by Barclays). They play 22 matches, and the matches aren't well attended. ManU lead the league with 3,100 per match and were the only club over 1,000. Most clubs play don't play in their home stadiums, instead playing in smaller grounds nearby. Chelsea just bought AFC Wimbledon's ground, for their reserves and women's teams.

    A guaranteed extra 6 matches in the EFL Trophy, with a little bit of pressure, would be good for the U21 teams, but having teams vote on U21 then sneaking in U23 seems very fishy.
     
  8. inter tatters

    inter tatters Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Well, my team in these Leagues is Chesterfield - we've just dragged ourselves out of lower-league 1 obscurity, to headline news by taking on the "poison chalice" of signing Ched Evans.

    Now interestingly, unlike many other clubs who've tried to sign Evans since his release from prison, the board decided not to poll the supporters, they just signed him, pretty much out of a blue. OK, Evans has had his conviction quashed and faces a re-trial, but the questions must be asked, when he goes back to trial, what use is he to a football club? I think it would be far better for him to clear his name, then look for a club. But, I suppose, if Chesterfield had taken that chance, far more clubs would be interested, as he did score 29 goals for Sheffield United in his last season.
     
  9. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    The name has changed yet again to Premier League 2. The age limit goes from U21 to U23. It includes 15 EPL teams and 9 from the Championship. 2 divisions of 12 teams each, with promotion and relegation. here's more info http://www.premierleague.com/news/58764

    Also for the EFL trophy (formerly Johnstone's Paint Trophy), six teams with Tier 1 academies, Arsenal, ManU, ManC, Spurs, Newcastle and Liverpool declined entry. New this year, this competition includes 16 U23 teams from Premier League 2, and at least 6 U21 players in the starting 11. They said they'll re-evaluate after the season if both finalists are Premier League 2 teams

    Here's the draw for the group stage:
    Northern Group A: Everton, Bolton, Cheltenham, Blackpool.
    Northern Group B: Wolves, Chesterfield, Crewe, Accrington.
    Northern Group C: Stoke, Bradford, Morecambe, Bury.
    Northern Group D: Blackburn, Fleetwood, Carlisle, Oldham.
    Northern Group E: Derby, Port Vale, Doncaster, Mansfield.
    Northern Group F: Sunderland, Rochdale, Hartlepool, Notts County.
    Northern Group G: Middlesbrough, Scunthorpe, Cambridge, Shrewsbury.
    Northern Group H: Leicester, Sheffield United, Grimsby, Walsall.
    Southern Group A: Reading, Bristol Rovers, Portsmouth, Yeovil.
    Southern Group B: Swansea, AFC Wimbledon, Newport, Plymouth.
    Southern Group C: Chelsea, Swindon, Exeter, Oxford.
    Southern Group D: West Ham, Coventry, Wycombe, Northampton.
    Southern Group E: Southampton, Charlton, Colchester, Crawley.
    Southern Group F: Norwich, Peterborough, Barnet, MK Dons.
    Southern Group G: Brighton, Southend, Stevenage, Leyton Orient.
    Southern Group H: West Bromwich Albion, Millwall, Luton, Gillingham.
     
    #9 Infield Infidel, Jul 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  10. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    The format for EFL Trophy is a little weird http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/efl-trophy-format-confirmed-for-201617-3170687.aspx
    So only three games in the group stage, like an international tourney. Instead of playing other teams in the group home/away, each team plays the other once, either home and away. The EPL2 (invited) teams must play one home game in the club's stadium. Clubs usually have reserve team games at a small ground nearby. It's unclear if it's EPL2 teams must play one home/two away, or if they can get two home games and play the second at the reserve team ground.

    Prize money totals about £2 million. Match revenue is split:
    This should generate a heck of a lot more money for Leagues 1 & 2 than the old JPT
     
  11. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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  12. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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  13. Titans Bastard

    Titans Bastard has sunil gulati in his sights Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Hartlepool United joins Leyton Orient on the trip down to the fifth tier after Newport County scored a last-minute winner to stay up.

    Lincoln City won the Conference National League and the playoff final will be between Tranmere and either Forest Green Rovers or Dag & Red. Forest Green would probably be one of the smallest clubs in the Football League in a very long time, as judged by the size of the town they represent.
     
  14. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    League two first legs are on Sunday, with Blackpool hosting Luton and Carlisle hosting Exeter, with the return legs next thursday. Luton was pretty clearly the 4th best team in L2 this year (3 teams go up via auto), but I don't know much else about these teams, other than the fact that Exeter plays an open and exciting brand of football and that Blackpool's owners are borderline criminal.

    As noted above Lincoln City are joining the Football League next season (they should get consideration for team of the year), and on Sunday Tranmere and Forest Green play at Wembley in the battle of Rovers to see who joins the Imps. Good luck to @Phil Plantier

    Bradford City and Millwall are set to meet next saturday to decide the League One playoff final. I was rooting for Fleetwood to come out of League One, as the club has an interesting history and a really cool story now. Their current owner was working for Enron when they collapsed, and it cost a lot of jobs in Fleetwood. He started his own energy business from his bedroom and built it into a giant. He bought his local club, has poured millions into it, and his business employs like 40% of the town. They have a beautiful but small park, and while they only averaged 3100 fans this season, the twon itself only has 25,000. Maybe next year.
     
    #14 Dummy Hoy, May 12, 2017
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  15. Phil Plantier

    Phil Plantier Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Thanks, DH. Forest Green are underdogs tomorrow: Tranmere have much better form and are taking over 10k fans to Wembley, while Forest Green look to have about 3k. Still, mercurial winger Keanu Marsh-Brown is back in form and could be the difference. It should be a decent spectacle, as both teams have to ability to pass sweetly.

    I'll be listening to the stream tomorrow at 10.

    Edit: They get the Guardian treatment https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-dale-vince-national-league-tranmere-wembley
     
    #15 Phil Plantier, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  16. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    I assume you saw the news that EFL games will be streamable next season...really be something if you can win tomorrow.
     
  17. miracleofmidre

    miracleofmidre Member SoSH Member

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    Delete. wrong thread.
     
  18. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    Congrats to Forest Green Rovers and @Phil Plantier !

    Welcome to the Football League!
     
  19. Phil Plantier

    Phil Plantier Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Thanks! Definitely the most exciting moment I've had as a far-flung supporter of Forest Green. The first team into League Football that played in the Stroud League, and the first new team in a while (don't know how long).

    Play-by-play man as the whistle sounded (paraphrasing): "Cheltenham, Newport, Grimsby, get ready to have some hummus at The New Lawn this Fall!"
     
  20. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    Awesome. I'm sure you have in the past, but at some point you'll have to explain Dale Vince to everyone here.
     
  21. Titans Bastard

    Titans Bastard has sunil gulati in his sights Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Before the advent of promotion and relegation between the Football League and the entity known at various times as the National League / Football Conference / Alliance Premier League, the only way to get into the Football League was to be elected in at the expense of an existing member, which happened quite infrequently. Because membership in the Football League was set in stone for so long, it's easy to mentally categorize clubs as "traditional" FL clubs and "traditional" non-league clubs. I happen to be entertained by seeing how far some of the former group can fall and how high some of the latter can rise.

    I think, excluding Football League clubs that were relegated and promoted back, the highest ranking club that was once promoted out of the Conference is Burton Albion. Yeovil Town are the only other ones who have reached the Championship; Fleetwood Town came close this year. Wimbledon and Wigan obviously both reached the EPL, but they were elected into the league in the 70s to replace small northern clubs (Workington and Southport respectively).

    On the other end of the spectrum
    • York City have been relegated down to the National League North division at the sixth tier of the pyramid
    • Halifax Town went bust, started over in the eighth tier, and were just promoted back to the National League
    • Same this with Chester City, who have stalled out at the fifth tier after initial back-to-back-to-back promotions from the 8th level.
    • Darlington went bust, started over at the 9th tier in 2012/13, and have worked their way back to the 6th.
    • Stockport County were relegated again, to the 6th tier, where they've been stuck for the last four seasons.
    • Hereford United went bust in 2014, started over in the 9th tier and have been promoted in each of their first two seasons.
     
  22. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    I couldn’t find a trhread for this season, so I figured I would drop this here:

    Accrington Stanley up to League One (pretty incredible story with the club)...seems the team had a good night of celebrations.



    In the thread, a reporter asks Brown to DM him his phone number if he’d like to do a live interview- Brown says sure mate, after I find my phone.
     
  23. Titans Bastard

    Titans Bastard has sunil gulati in his sights Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  24. SoxFanInCali

    SoxFanInCali has the rich, deep voice of a god and the penis of Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    AFC Wimbledon is going to survive in League One. MK Dons will be relegated to League Two.

    Awesome.
     
  25. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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  26. SoxFanInCali

    SoxFanInCali has the rich, deep voice of a god and the penis of Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Some comedy in League Two today.

    Swindon midfielder James Dunne picked up a red card for raising an arm to Accrington Stanley defender James Dunne. Accrington's James Dunne then picked up a second yellow for his reaction to Swindon's James Dunne's foul. One incident, two James Dunnes sent off.

    Swindon won the game 3-0.
     

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