Liverpool 2017-18: Salah Days are Here

[PedroSpecialK]

Not too surprising given the back injury.

In transfer speculation, Jean-Michaël Seri is on Liverpool's radar, per Ed Aarons. His release clause is €40m.

 

[SocrManiac]

I'm going to make a really, really bold statement. You guys ready?

Moreno is not capable of defending at this level.

When he's in the formation effectively becomes a 3-5-2. The back three are lopsided, with two central defenders and a right back. They can't keep running him out there in case there's an improvement- he is what he is.

This was bot a great transfer window for addressing areas of need.

 

[swiftaw]

I have always though that they should just use Moreno as a left winger (a backup to Mane).

 

[SocrManiac]

I tend to agree, though I don't think his attacking instinct is that good, either. It's one thing to make a positive attacking contribution as a marauding fullback, but I'm not sure he's reliable enough to be one of the primary threats, either.

 

[67YAZ]

Reports all over that 'Pool turned down €125m for Coutinho today. That's a lotta cash for a guy with a serious back problem. I have a hard time imagining that Barca will be back with another offer, but goddamn are they desperate. My guess is that Coutinho's camp will make another public push to see if that can force the issue.

Notably, there's nary a whisper of Sakho news this summer - after Palace refused to stump up £30m, he's been in total limbo. Another loan deal seems most likely or maybe a quick sale if Liverpool will come down on their valuation.

As for Moreno, I think he's shown a real focus on defending so far. he hasn't been great, but he is quite clearly passing up some of the aggressive runs he used to make in favor of holding his position. I hope Robertson can claim the job quickly because I have the sneaking suspicion that Henderson will miss some time and Milner will be his replacement....

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I can understand why Liverpool don't want to sell because there is just no way they find replacements in two weeks that don't make the team substantially worse and this is a huge year of the club. And I also understand that transfer fees are going through the roof in general.

But €125m for Phillipe Coutinho is still ridiculous.

 

[coremiller]

They should absolutely sell Coutinho for 125m. That price is insane. Coutinho is good but he's not thaaat good.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Notably, there's nary a whisper of Sakho news this summer - after Palace refused to stump up £30m, he's been in total limbo. Another loan deal seems most likely or maybe a quick sale if Liverpool will come down on their valuation.

West Brom is apparently interested. Probably comes down to whether they sell Evans to Man City.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

They should absolutely sell Coutinho for 125m. That price is insane. Coutinho is good but he's not thaaat good.

We'll ..yeah .. but ..

If that offer came in 2 months ago they would have accepted in a heartbeat. But now it's probably too late to line up a replacement. Draxler is apparently available but I don't think he's as good as Coutinho. And it's not like they need the money to fund other transfers. They are perfectly willing to spend 140 GBP on VVD and Keita.

The bottom line is they can't take a step back this year.

 

[Carbo Loading]

They should absolutely sell Coutinho for 125m. That price is insane. Coutinho is good but he's not thaaat good.

According to the Echo, the offer was 82M upfront and the rest in add ons which may or may not be achievable. Barcelona is known for dodging add on payments so it's unlikely Liverpool would get much more than the 82M.

 

[67YAZ]

West Brom is apparently interested. Probably comes down to whether they sell Evans to Man City.

Good that there's some interest at least. But I don't think the Baggies would splash the kind of cash needed. FSG hasn't shown much willingness to bargain down on their valuations, and Sakho already makes £25k/week more than West Brom's highest paid (Rondon). But who know these days with so much TV money sloshing around?

 

[SocrManiac]

Even at 82m guaranteed, you help him pack his bags.

You’d think they’d at least explore the critical areas of need using that kind of cash before rejecting outright. Is the squad really better as constructed than it would be minus Cou, plus a CDM and central defender (and maybe left back)?

I’m still scratching my head as to how Juventus picked up Matuidi for a comparative song. You’d think he would have been a nice interim solution for LFC while working on Keita.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Even at 82m guaranteed, you help him pack his bags.

You’d think they’d at least explore the critical areas of need using that kind of cash before rejecting outright. Is the squad really better as constructed than it would be minus Cou, plus a CDM and central defender (and maybe left back)?

I’m still scratching my head as to how Juventus picked up Matuidi for a comparative song. You’d think he would have been a nice interim solution for LFC while working on Keita.

There are zero indications that Pool need to sell to raise funds to bring in reinforcements.

 

[JayMags71]

According to the Echo, the offer was 82M upfront and the rest in add ons which may or may not be achievable. Barcelona is known for dodging add on payments so it's unlikely Liverpool would get much more than the 82M.

Same with the Mirror (with the usual caveats about the mirror 's reliability):

MirrorSport can reveal the details of the latest offer, made today with a headline figure of £119 million.

The true fee is a guaranteed £80m, with a string of improbable targets triggering further payments.

These ‘never-never payments’ would include Coutinho...

• Winning multiple trophies in the same season
• Winning multiple Champions League titles
• Winning the Ballon d’Or as the world’s best player
• Winning multiple trophies and the Ballon D’Or in the same season
• Payment of the basic £80m fee staggered over five years

 

[coremiller]

Ah, that's a very different proposition. In particular staggering the 80m is a strange proposal for Barca and suggests their finances are a mess. If the idea from Liverpool's perspective is to sell Coutinho at a highly inflated evaluation so they can use the money to invest in other players, they can't do that if they don't get the cash upfront. And Barca just received 220m for Neymar, they shouldn't have cashflow issues, so why are they insisting on staggering the payments?

 

[67YAZ]

So they can spend another €125m on Dembele? Dembele is much more the Neymar replacement, Coutinho an Iniesta replacement. At this point, Bartomeu probably needs both signings to survive as Barca board chair.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Bartomeu reportedly lied to the Barcelona board about Messi having signed an extension.

Regarding Coutinho, Barca have also reportedly notified Liverpool that their current offer comes off the table on Sunday afternoon. Strikes me a lot like...

"This offer comes off the table at midnight... tonight."

 

[SocrManiac]

Just finished today’s match.

It’s really sad to see how far Sturridge has fallen. He’s just incapable of decision making in this system. He’s made of silly string and impossible to unload.

 

[67YAZ]

But Barca is still gonna Barca. They look to have lined job Seri, to be announced after Nice's second leg vs Napoli on Wednesday. This is the peril of getting fixated on one hard-to-pry-free transfer targetvlike Keita - Liverpool might have made a run at Seri six weeks ago for half the fee they were willing to pay for Keita.

But at least there's some more smoke around Sakho - Palace remain interested and maybe West Ham, too?

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Officially into the Champions League group stages. The draw is tomorrow, Liverpool will be in pot 3.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

But Barca is still gonna Barca. They look to have lined job Seri, to be announced after Nice's second leg vs Napoli on Wednesday. This is the peril of getting fixated on one hard-to-pry-free transfer targetvlike Keita - Liverpool might have made a run at Seri six weeks ago for half the fee they were willing to pay for Keita.

But at least there's some more smoke around Sakho - Palace remain interested and maybe West Ham, too?

Rumour is the Seri deal has fallen through .. for inexplicable reasons .. unless the player didn't want to go. Would really like to see Pool go for him.

Of course that has lead to another rumoured offer for Coutinho .. which will be ignored.

So .. one week to go .. do they make an offer for VVD? One final one for Keita ?

Also rumours of Klopp being in on Shalk's (and Matip's ex partner) CB Benedikt Howedes. He would represent an excellent plan B

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Seri has an issue with his ingrown toenails that cause muscle pain and other issues in cold weather... sounds crazy but has led to many ruling out a move fo England for him (I believe he was quoted as saying he could never see himself moving to a cold environment)

 

[67YAZ]

That's wild about Seri's toenails. Would fit right in with Can's cramping calfs, I guess...

Guardian reports that it was PSG that swooped in and blew up Barca's deal for Seri. That's turning into a real nasty rivalry. Can only hope they meet in a Champions League knock out round this year.

Watched the Hoffenheim match late last night. Wild, exhilarating, nerve wracking first half. I don't think Henderson is back to his peak form of last season, and that is killing the defense. When Henderson was at his best, roughly from the Chelsea match mid-September until he went out injured, Henderson was breaking up counters, shielding the CBs, and moving the all very effectively (passing success well over 80%). I hope he's just shaking off the rust - he's always been slow to adjust - but the side really do need another boss midfielder to tighten the defense. Keita is a dream, Seri seems unlikely, I dont know enough about Kovacic to understand if he can play this role. Howdes would be a very good get, but the midfield needs it most right now. And god forbid Henderson get injured again...like every season...

 

[JayMags71]

From the CL thread. We got a lucky draw, but our fixture list is pretty crowded, now.

• Match day 1 – September 13 – Sevilla (H)
• Matchday 2 – September 26 – Spartak Moscow (A)
• Matchday 3 – October 17 – Maribor (A)
• Matchday 4 – November 1 – Maribor (H)
• Matchday 5 – November 21 – Sevilla (A)
• Matchday 6 – December 6 – Spartak Moscow (H)

We have a fairly hard run of fixtures stacked around CL ties:

Spartak Moscow (A):

• Before: Leicester (A)
• After: Newcastle (A)

With Leicester away in the League Cup before Leicester away in the league, this means four away games in a row.

Maribor (A):

• Before: Man United (H)
• After: Spurs (A)

Here's hoping for 1-2 reinforcements to the squad before the window closes.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

It's good that the away game to Moscow comes in September instead of December.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Odd timing by Klopp to drop Mignolet, but he's reportedly out of the team today entirely.

Karius to get the start home to Arsenal.

 

[SocrManiac]

I was trying to find evidence that corroborates the Dutch report and I can’t. I only see other outlets picking it up. Liverpool’s website says there are no changes in team selection against Arsenal, which is the only thing I can see at this point.

Karius had a preseason that made Ward look like the number 2. Hard to imagine what could have happened in training to make this happen.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I was trying to find evidence that corroborates the Dutch report and I can’t. I only see other outlets picking it up. Liverpool’s website says there are no changes in team selection against Arsenal, which is the only thing I can see at this point.

Karius had a preseason that made Ward look like the number 2. Hard to imagine what could have happened in training to make this happen.

The Echo is reporting Mignolet has definitely been dropped .. not even on the bench. This is really, really strange. In a transfer season of mega rumours there hasn't been a sniff concerning Mignolet. Maybe he ran over Klopp's dog or something.

 

[SocrManiac]

Again, with the caveat that we have no idea what’s going on in training...

I can’t find an upside to this. Karius’s last look in a game was awful. The crowd is going to beat him like a rented mule if there are any slip ups. Klopp’s supposed talk of giving Mignloet a rest doesn’t pass the sniff test, either, given the international break.

I just don’t understand this at all.

 

[swiftaw]

And if you're going to drop him, play Ward, at least he's played in a competitive match in the last 6 months.

 

[CPT Neuron]

MANE!

 

[CPT Neuron]

So deadly on the counter.....Arsenal quit a long time ago, but still lethal press and counter today.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Today is proof that it doesn't matter who the keeper is if the other side never get an attack going.

Even with that, Karius got away with holding the ball too long 3 times.

 

[67YAZ]

It's hard to understand what is going with Karius. He tries to dribble his way out of trouble, he mis-kicks stationary balls...these are just fundamental mistakes. I thought last year his problem was lost confidence....today it was lost concentration? There's talent there, he showed in the Bundesliga. I think he needs a loan to get his mojo back.

Conversely, Mingolet responded magnificently to being benched last season. I really hope this was just an odd rest day.

Can is certainly playing his way to a bigger contract. I've been curious about these negotiations. At some point it came out that the hold up was basically that Can wants to play in Henderson's role, which Klopp clearly doesn't prefer when both are healthy. But Can doesn't seem to have pushed for a move, either, even with Juventus reportedly sniffing around. Does Can just want to walk on a free at age 24? Not a common play, but Can could see some of that transfer money rolled into his salary and enjoy big wages right into his prime.

 

[SocrManiac]

From the Juventus side, it’s taken as fact that Can will be in Turn next season on a free transfer. It’s difficult to see where he fits- Matuidi, Marchisio, Pjanic, and Khedira all seem like they’d play ahead of him in central midfield.

I’m still astounded Matuidi landed with Juventus when he fits the LFC need so beautifully.

Today’s performance against Arsenal was... Weird. Classic case of LFC not being as good as they looked today, though I think the Gunners might be that bad under Wenger.

Karius shouldn’t catch a sniff against better opposition (HA!).

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Liverpool appear to be closing in on Thomas Lemar, a few days after Wenger publicly stated that Monaco had shut the door on him leaving this window. Bid is reportedly in the £65m range.

Additionally - Liverpool have signed Naby Keïta, though the deal sees him transferring next summer. Wowza.


Per the tier 1's, the club paid next summer's £48m release clause and a premium to get it done. Have to believe that this eases the concern of Can potentially leaving on a free as well, though more B2B/holding midfield depth is never a bad thing.

 

[CPT Neuron]

Love this bit of business.....this is a brilliant move!

 

[JayMags71]

Have to believe that this eases the concern of Can potentially leaving on a free as well, though more B2B/holding midfield depth is never a bad thing.

I thought Keita is more of an attacking midfielder, while Can is more of a DM. Are they really more similar?

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Keïta's similar to Can, in the sense that they are both box-to-box midfielders with high workrates - however, I don't think there's any question that Keïta is the superior player.

Keïta's attacking threat comes primarily through his vision, and his most valuable trait in midfield moving forward is his ability to draw defenders to him before finding a teammate - whereas Can makes a habit of drawing pressure and outmuscling his opposition to hold the ball before finding a teammate.

Defensively, Keïta was second among midfielders in Bundesliga in interceptions/90 and third in blocks/90 (>2k min played), so I would expect him to have better positioning / awareness than Can (who sometimes gets caught upfield). On the attacking side, he is superior to Can of last season in terms of output, key passes, dribbles, etc:

Spoiler

I've seen him play maybe 3-4 times total, so would definitely invite a more avid Bundesliga follower to call BS

 

[67YAZ]

That's certainly a unique way to nab Keita, but at this point, Liverpool need to be creative to nab this level of talent. But as for Lemar, does he really bring that much more than Draxler, who is reportedly available for half the fee? To my estimation, no, but it would be another young, potentially-world-class player to add in the mix. Now about that defense...

 

[CPT Neuron]

And in the shock of the month....Coutinho is apparently healthy enough to play for Brazil....

 

[ehaz]

That's certainly a unique way to nab Keita, but at this point, Liverpool need to be creative to nab this level of talent. But as for Lemar, does he really bring that much more than Draxler, who is reportedly available for half the fee? To my estimation, no, but it would be another young, potentially-world-class player to add in the mix. Now about that defense...

Lemar I think would be a better fit in a midfield 3 (not to mention being able to play on the wings). He's also faster and has a great work rate whereas Draxler has a (perhaps undeserved) reputation for being lazy and not tracking back.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I think they view Lemar as Coutinho's eventual replacement. Given that he will probably leave next summer.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Keita is official

Nice to know he will be joining next summer, regardless of the results of this season.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Keeping this in our thread because it's too stupid to post as a transfer rumor / confirmation... a few LFC forums have been tracking a flight that left from Bournemouth airport, and touched down in Liverpool about half an hour ago. There is reportedly an LFC car there for the pickup, as seen in these three photos:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIZfBHQW4AIs7hR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIZe9jxXoAA5VRk.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIZfmhnXkAADZKa.jpg

That Mercedes van appears to be the same that took Salah and Robertson to their medicals, so the prevailing theory is that it's Van Dijk flying from Southampton for a medical.

http://i.imgur.com/AEfNJDw.jpg

/adjusts tinfoil hat

edit: Gaining more steam - someone on Twitter spotted the van with matching plates to the one that transported Salah:


edit 2: the Van has a twitter account now (https://twitter.com/KS15YXM) and a This is Vanfield meme has emerged

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIZ7X_YW4AAO71T.jpg

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Now this is interesting .. Coutinho has supposedly been "told" by FSG that he will be sold to Barcelona this window. It's not been made public because LFC is trying to line up a replacement (Lemar one assumes).

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/philippe-coutinho-told-will-barcelona-player-week-163051023.html

Normally this would be just another silly rumour except for the fact LFC seems rather desperate to bring in Lemar. They are rumoured to have sent yet another (the third) bid to Monaco. Also the Coutinho rumours have kind of dried up since the last bid was summarily rejected. Plus, the Lemar transfer seems to be, IMO a "nice to have" rather than a "must have".

So a prediction .. if they land Lemar, Coutinho's off to Barcelona .. otherwise he stays. Which would be excellent business IMO.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

It would be disappointing, given FSG's public statement. I wouldn't be too surprised if they let him rot until January but didn't register him for the Champions' League. Needless to say, his conduct in going to the Brazil call-up and training while feigning a back injury is more egregious than anything Sterling or Suarez pulled.

It's also worth pointing out that none of the "god-tier" LFC sources (Paul Joyce, Tony Barrett, Chris Bascombe, Melissa Reddy) have reported this, though I imagine if any corroborated it they would risk losing their source(s) within the club.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

It would be disappointing, given FSG's public statement. I wouldn't be too surprised if they let him rot until January but didn't register him for the Champions' League. Needless to say, his conduct in going to the Brazil call-up and training while feigning a back injury is more egregious than anything Sterling or Suarez pulled.

It's also worth pointing out that none of the "god-tier" LFC sources (Paul Joyce, Tony Barrett, Chris Bascombe, Melissa Reddy) have reported this, though I imagine if any corroborated it they would risk losing their source(s) within the club.

It was actually referenced in the Echo's running blog. The mere fact that they acknowledged it's existence says .. what?

But you are correct. At this point I'm only trusting the sources you mentioned.

Mind you, no one had the Naby Keita signing until it happened.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Peter Moore is awesome

 

[JayMags71]

Tyler sounds like a SoSH Arsenal supporter. I know Deadspin isn't exactly a fantastic source for EPL analysis, but this article was like Cialis.

As they’ve shown at times already, Liverpool are a true force to be reckoned with this year, even without Coutinho and Adam Lallana or any new faces to fill those two players’ boots. But if they can add Lemar to this bunch, and integrate Lallana back into the fold once he gets healthy, and maybe even keep hold of Coutinho for another year before turning over the reins to Keïta, then this team will be legitimate title contenders now and for a while yet.