Liga dos Campeões de futebol em Lisboa: Dog Days of Summer

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
It's just under a month since Bayern won the title, but the first draw for 2013-14 is already out and games begin on July 2 for the minnows.
 
1st Qualifying Round
 
Shirak (ARM) vs. Tre Penne (SMR)
Lusitanos (AND) vs. EB/Streymur (FAR)
 
2nd Qualifying Round
 
Neftchi Baku (AZE) vs. Skënderbeu Korçë (ALB)
Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) vs. Vardar (MKD)
Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) vs. Željezničar (BIH)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) vs. Sitjeska Nikšić (MNE)
Birkirkara (MLT) vs. Maribor (SLO)
Sligo Rovers (IRL) vs. Molde (NOR)
Elfsborg (SWE) vs. Daugava Daugavpils (LAT)
HJK (FIN) vs. Nõmme Kalju (EST)
Ekranas (LTU) vs. FH (ISL)
The New Saints (WAL) vs. Legia Warsaw (POL)
Celtic (SCO) vs. Cliftonville (NIR)
Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) vs. Fola Esch (LUX)
Gyõr (HUN) vs. Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR)
BATE Borisov (BLR) vs. Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ)
Shirak/Tre Penne vs. Partizan (SRB)
Slovan Bratislava (SVK) vs. Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) vs. Lusitanos/EB/Streymur
 
The 17 winners move into the champions pool of the third qualifying round, where they will be joined by FC Basel, APOEL, and Austria Wien.  From there, the 10 remaining clubs play for five group stage places in the final round of qualification.  So, at least two of the clubs in the 2nd round draw will reach the group stage.
 
 
 
In the non-champions pool, there will be two pots of five clubs in the third qualifying round:
 
Seeded -- Lyon, Zenit, PSV, Metalist, Fenerbahçe
Unseeded -- PAOK, Red Bull Salzburg, Nordsjælland, Grasshopper, Zulte Waregem
 
The five winners move on to the final round, where they'll be joined by Arsenal, Milan, Schalke, Real Sociedad, and..... Paços de Ferreira.
 
 
 
3rd round losers parachute to the Europa League playoff round.  4th round losers parachute to the Europa League group stage.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,282
AZ
Great stuff.  Thanks for posting.
 
Boy, the Scottish Premier League really got whacked, with the champ being dropped to the second round this year.  It's a tough road for a team that beat Barca last time around.
 

Vinho Tinto

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 9, 2003
7,047
Auburn, MA
Titans Bastard said:
and..... Paços de Ferreira.
Their coach, Paulo Fonseca, has already been named as Vitor Perriera's replacement at Porto. Plus, they have sold a few of their first XI from last season. So their debut on the big stage shouldn't last longer than 2 matches. They had a very nice season, but this only happens due to Sporting's mismanagement.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Great stuff.  Thanks for posting.
 
Boy, the Scottish Premier League really got whacked, with the champ being dropped to the second round this year.  It's a tough road for a team that beat Barca last time around.
 
I would feel worse for Celtic if they weren't playing the ideal opponent. Cliftonville are not good enough to be a serious threat and are a nationalist club in Belfast. The entire stadium and all 22 players on the pitch are going to want Celtic to win.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,282
AZ
Spacemans Bong said:
 
I would feel worse for Celtic if they weren't playing the ideal opponent. Cliftonville are not good enough to be a serious threat and are a nationalist club in Belfast. The entire stadium and all 22 players on the pitch are going to want Celtic to win.
Interesting. I don't know much of anything about Northern Ireland football. It does I guess highlight the drop Scottish football has taken that the two premier leagues both put their champion into the same CL qualification round.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,723
MetroWest, MA
Celtic were in the second round last year, no? Had to get through HJK and Helsingborg? I may be missing a round, but I'm not too worked up about it, because if they get eliminated at this stage, they clearly don't deserve to proceed. Regardless, the SPL league coefficient sucks without Rangers, and this is the outcome of that. I hate Gers and they were arrogant spendthrifts to end up where they did and were deserving of far worse, but the simple fact is that Scottish football suffers without them. Fuck those fucking cunts.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Great stuff.  Thanks for posting.
 
Boy, the Scottish Premier League really got whacked, with the champ being dropped to the second round this year.  It's a tough road for a team that beat Barca last time around.
 
The SPL isn't exactly in a golden era, but almost all champions who don't qualify straight to the group stage enter in the 2nd qualifying round.  See this chart (this is THE website for CL / EL rankings and mechanics minutiae).  Scotland was one of the few leagues that sent a champion to the third round in 2012-13, but the SPL slipped from 15th to 18th this time around.
 
 
Celtic was actually really helped by the reorganization of CL qualifying a few years ago.  Under the old system, Celtic would have to navigate a treacherous free-for-all-bracket that would include lots of heavyweights from the top leagues.  Now, the champion clubs are separated from runners-up from "mid-majors" and 3rd/4th place clubs from big leagues, so they aren't going to wind up facing Arsenal or AC Milan down the line.  In fact, they are guaranteed to be seeded throughout qualifying which means there's no way they'll even face the "scarier" clubs in their bracket like Basel, BATE, APOEL, Steaua, etc.  If seeded teams were to always win, their final qualifying opponent would be one of: Viktoria Plzen, Dinamo Zagreb, Partizan, Austria Wien, Legia Warsaw.  Not chopped liver, but those are winnable matchups.  And some seeded teams will lose, so that pool will be weaker when the time comes.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Vinho Tinto said:
Their coach, Paulo Fonseca, has already been named as Vitor Perriera's replacement at Porto. Plus, they have sold a few of their first XI from last season. So their debut on the big stage shouldn't last longer than 2 matches. They had a very nice season, but this only happens due to Sporting's mismanagement.
 
Portugal is one of those leagues whose ranking really takes it on the chin when the Big Three don't finish in the top three.  Paços has only EL experience, it has a crappy seeding guaranteeing tough matchups, and a surprise season the year before means the roster will be picked clean by the time the CL starts because like most small Portuguese clubs they have no money.  Paços may not even be seeded when they get dumped into the EL playoff round.
 

Vinho Tinto

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 9, 2003
7,047
Auburn, MA
Titans Bastard said:
Portugal is one of those leagues whose ranking really takes it on the chin when the Big Three don't finish in the top three.  Paços has only EL experience, it has a crappy seeding guaranteeing tough matchups, and a surprise season the year before means the roster will be picked clean by the time the CL starts because like most small Portuguese clubs they have no money.  Paços may not even be seeded when they get dumped into the EL playoff round.
 
All true. Plus, if Platini eliminates the Europa NIT it would hit Portugal the hardest. Their current ranking is fattened by having 3 teams reach the EL semis in 2011. In a Champions League only format, Benfica does not add to this year's coefficent after being eliminated in the CL group stage. 
 
Braga has done a great job of impersonating the Oakland A's by building competitive squads around undervalued castoffs. However, they will never have the potential that Sporting does. It's taken a 30 year run with a massive haul of domestic and continental trophies for FC Porto to MAYBE have a larger group of supporters than Sporting. Bruno Carvalho is their 10th president since 1986 (Pinto Da Costa has been Porto's president since 1976), they really need him to oversee something that resembles stability in their boardroom.
 
If Sporting could return to the level they were at from 2000-2005, that would give Portugal 3 clubs that could regularly compete for spots in the Champions League group stage. 
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,282
AZ
Titans Bastard said:
The SPL isn't exactly in a golden era, but almost all champions who don't qualify straight to the group stage enter in the 2nd qualifying round.  See this chart (this is THE website for CL / EL rankings and mechanics minutiae).  Scotland was one of the few leagues that sent a champion to the third round in 2012-13, but the SPL slipped from 15th to 18th this time around.
 
 
Celtic was actually really helped by the reorganization of CL qualifying a few years ago.  Under the old system, Celtic would have to navigate a treacherous free-for-all-bracket that would include lots of heavyweights from the top leagues.  Now, the champion clubs are separated from runners-up from "mid-majors" and 3rd/4th place clubs from big leagues, so they aren't going to wind up facing Arsenal or AC Milan down the line.  In fact, they are guaranteed to be seeded throughout qualifying which means there's no way they'll even face the "scarier" clubs in their bracket like Basel, BATE, APOEL, Steaua, etc.  If seeded teams were to always win, their final qualifying opponent would be one of: Viktoria Plzen, Dinamo Zagreb, Partizan, Austria Wien, Legia Warsaw.  Not chopped liver, but those are winnable matchups.  And some seeded teams will lose, so that pool will be weaker when the time comes.
 
Interesting.  I've never really tried to follow the rules for the first three rounds of qualification, because it always was too complicated.  I just look at the fixtures list when it comes out, but I'm going to try to figure it out this year.
 
If I'm understanding you, once you get past the first tie in the second round, it's much better to be a champion that has entered in the second round than to be one of the ten non-champions that enter in the third round.   Still, the far more privileged position is the four champions that enter in the third round.  I know it's a bit anglo-centric, but it's hard for me to think of the Scottish Premier League as only the 18th best in Europe.  But I guess that's the story.  The drop from 16 to 17 is significant the way it's set up, but I suppose not nearly the same as the drop from 5th to 6th or 7th for the non-champion teams in those leagues.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Interesting.  I've never really tried to follow the rules for the first three rounds of qualification, because it always was too complicated.  I just look at the fixtures list when it comes out, but I'm going to try to figure it out this year.
 
If I'm understanding you, once you get past the first tie in the second round, it's much better to be a champion that has entered in the second round than to be one of the ten non-champions that enter in the third round.   Still, the far more privileged position is the four champions that enter in the third round.  I know it's a bit anglo-centric, but it's hard for me to think of the Scottish Premier League as only the 18th best in Europe.  But I guess that's the story.  The drop from 16 to 17 is significant the way it's set up, but I suppose not nearly the same as the drop from 5th to 6th or 7th for the non-champion teams in those leagues.
 
Well, it's complicated and it changes every five years or so.  And to be honest, it doesn't really matter much for the top 8-10 countries, just the mid-sized and small ones who regularly scrap through early rounds of qualifying.
 
When UEFA tweaked the qualifying format for the 2009-10 edition (which coincided with the inaugural Europa League in its new format), it was a win for the biggest and smallest countries.  The number of guaranteed group stage places was increased from 16 (out of 32) to 22.  The six addition direct entry places were given to the 3rd place finishers of the Top Three and the champions of #10, #11, and #12.
 
Qualification was split between champions (i.e. champion clubs from leagues ranked #13 and below) and non-champions (4th place of #1-3, 3rd place of #4-6, 2nd place of #7-15).
 
The champions bracket is a lot weaker and provides an easier path to the group stage for champions of smaller countries.  It guarantees that some of these smaller guys will be in the CL group stage year-in, year-out.  The group that really got squeezed were the 2nd place clubs of the "mid-major" countries #7-15.  Red Bull Salzburg or Nordsjælland might have had a chance if they were in a general qualifying pool with smaller league champions like Viktoria Plzen and Maccabi Tel Aviv.  When they need to get through clubs like Arsenal, Milan, and Zenit -- good night.

 
Scotland has dipped down to #18 because they are utterly dependent on Rangers and Celtic to keep their ranking high.  All other clubs from the SPL struggle to even get through one round.  The SPL's coefficient dipped because the decline of Rangers and Celtic in the last 10 years meant that they couldn't carry the rest of the league as they once did.  With Rangers down and out for a while, it's only going to get worse.
 
BTW, Scotland's #18 ranking is from the 2007-08 season through the 2011-12 season (this five-year span, ending one year ago, was what determined qualification spots for the just-ended season).  In the coefficients for the span from 2008-09 through 2012-13, the SPL has slipped even further to #24.  The SPL may bounce back up over the next two years because there really aren't many points to defend from 2008-09 and 2009-10.
 
 
The struggle for the SPL and other similar leagues is their top-heavy nature.  Right now, they have only four places in Europe.  If Rangers get their house in order and the Old Firm collectively starts doing better in Europe, they'll move up the rankings until they hit #15.  At that point, the SPL would get a fifth place in Europe.  But that's just another shitty club that will get knocked out early and drags down the league's coefficient.
 
This dynamic is part of the reason why Portugal, Ukraine, Russia, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece, et al are always leapfrogging each other in the back half of the top 10.  The same thing happens with smaller countries in the bottom half of the top 20.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Vinho Tinto said:
All true. Plus, if Platini eliminates the Europa NIT it would hit Portugal the hardest. Their current ranking is fattened by having 3 teams reach the EL semis in 2011. In a Champions League only format, Benfica does not add to this year's coefficent after being eliminated in the CL group stage. 
I think Europa league is here to stay. They've already announced that starting with the 2015 Europa Champions, the Europa Champion will get a CL spot. That should provide more motivation for big clubs to take it more seriously. The window to change the competition from 2015-2018 closes July 1.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Titans Bastard said:
In the non-champions pool, there will be two pots of five clubs in the third qualifying round:
 
Seeded -- Lyon, Zenit, PSV, Metalist, Fenerbahçe
Unseeded -- PAOK, Red Bull Salzburg, Nordsjælland, Grasshopper, Zulte Waregem
 
The five winners move on to the final round, where they'll be joined by Arsenal, Milan, Schalke, Real Sociedad, and..... Paços de Ferreira.
 
 
 
3rd round losers parachute to the Europa League playoff round.  4th round losers parachute to the Europa League group stage.
 
Fenerbahçe and Beşiktaş have received Euro bans for domestic match-fixing, so Bursaspor will move up from the Europa League to take Fener's place.  Kayserispor and Kasımpaşa move into the Europa league.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Shirak of Armenia beat Tre Penne of San Marino 3-0 in the opening match of the Champions League.  I was tremendously excited to see that none other than Ismaël Fofana scored a hat trick.  If that name doesn't mean anything to you, it's because you weren't following the absolute beast of a season he put up in the Conference South as I managed Dover Athletic to promotion in FM11.
 
Meanwhile, Lusitanos holds a 2-0 lead over EB/Streymur in what would be an outstanding win for the Andorrans.  No Andorran club has won or tied a European match since 2009.  If the result stands, the Faroese will have to live in eternal shame, or at least await Gibraltar's entry into UEFA.
 
My apologies to those of you who were planning on rushing home to catch these games on the old DVR.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
2nd Qualifying Round, 1st Leg
 
Neftchi Baku (AZE) 0-0 Skenderbeu Korce (ALB)
Steaua Bucuresti (ROU) 3-0 Vardar (MKD)
Viktoria Plzen (CZE) 4-3 Zeljeznicar (BIH)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) 1-1 Sutjeska Niksic (MNE)
Birkirkara (MLT) 0-0 Maribor (SLO)
Sligo Rovers (IRL) 0-1 Molde (NOR)
Elfsborg (SWE) 7-1 Daugava Daugavpils (LAT)
HJK (FIN) 0-0 Nomme Kalju (EST)
Ekranas (LTU) 0-1 FH (ISL)
The New Saints (WAL) 1-3 Legia Warsaw (POL)
Cliftonville (NIR) 0-3 Celtic (SCO)
Fola Esch (LUX) 0-5 Dinamo Zagreb (CRO)
Gyor (HUN) 0-2 Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR)
BATE Borisov (BLR) 0-1 Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ)
Shirak (ARM) 1-1 Partizan (SRB)
Slovan Bratislava (SVK) 2-1 Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) 6-1 EB/Streymur (FAR)
 
 
Last year, BATE Borisov beat Bayern Munich in the CL group stage.  This year, they just lost at home to Shakhter Karagandy in the second qualifying round.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Titans Bastard said:
Fenerbahçe and Beşiktaş have received Euro bans for domestic match-fixing, so Bursaspor will move up from the Europa League to take Fener's place.  Kayserispor and Kasımpaşa move into the Europa league.
 
An appeals court overturned these bans, so sorry Kayserispor and Kasimpasa -- no more Europe for you.  And it's back to the EL for Bursaspor.
 
 
Anyway, the 3QR draw came out this morning.
 
Champions:
 
Basel (SUI) vs. Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR) / Gyõr (HUN)
Molde (NOR) / Sligo Rovers (IRL) vs. Legia Warsaw (POL) vs. The New Saints (WAL)
Slovan Bratislava (SVK) / Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL) vs. Partizan (SRB) / Shirak (ARM)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) / EB/Streymur (FAR) vs. Steaua Bucharest (ROU) / Vardar (MKD)
APOEL (CYP) vs. Maribor (SLO) / Birkirkara (MLT)
Celtic (SCO) / Cliftonville (NIR) vs. Elfsborg (SWE) / Daugava Daugavpils (LAT)
BATE Borisov (BLR) / Shakhter Karaganda (KAZ) vs. Neftchi Baku (AZE) / Skënderbeu Korçë (ALB)
Austria Vienna (AUT) vs. Ekranas (LTU) / FH (ISL)
HJK (FIN) / Nõmme Kalju (EST) vs. Viktoria Plzen (CZE) / Zeljeznicar (BIH)
Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) / Fola Esch (LUX) vs. Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) / Sutjeska Niksic (MNE)
 
Non-Champions:
 
Nordsjælland (DEN) vs. Zenit St. Petersburg (RUS)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT) vs. Fenerbahçe (TUR)
PAOK (GRE) vs. Metalist Kharkiv (UKR)
PSV Eindhoven (NED) vs. Zulte Waregem (BEL)
Lyon (FRA) vs. Grasshopper (SUI)
 
 
The 10 winners from the Champions bracket move on to the final round where they'll play for five GS places.  The five winners from the Non-Champions bracket will be joined by Arsenal, Milan, Schalke, Real Sociedad, and Paços de Ferreira and play for another five GS places.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Titans Bastard said:
An appeals court overturned these bans, so sorry Kayserispor and Kasimpasa -- no more Europe for you.  And it's back to the EL for Bursaspor.
 
I saw that the bans were only temporarily overturned. Totally confusing, since Fener and Besiktas could win, but then have their suspensions reinstated. Who would go through then, their opponent, or the other Turkish teams?
 
Fenerbahce have been drawn against Salzburg in the third round of Champions League qualifying - although their participation in the competition is dependent on a final ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
The Turkish club, along with fellow Super Lig outfit and Europa League qualifiers Besiktas, were initially handed a two-year suspension by UEFA in June for their involvement in domestic match-fixing.
That ruling was overturned on a temporary basis by CAS, who will make a final decision on Fener on August 28 and Besiktas on August 30
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Infield Infidel said:
I saw that the bans were only temporarily overturned. Totally confusing, since Fener and Besiktas could win, but then have their suspensions reinstated. Who would go through then, their opponent, or the other Turkish teams?
 
It would be a mess.  No matter what happens at this point, they've at least managed to screw the Greeks.  PAOK was supposed to be seeded in the 3QR draw, but replacing Bursaspor with Fener pushed them into the unseeded pool.  Instead of getting a shot at Nordsjælland or Zulte Waregem, they have a very tough matchup against Metalist Kharkiv.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Titans Bastard said:
2nd Qualifying Round, 1st Leg
 
Neftchi Baku (AZE) 0-0, 0-1, (0-1) Skenderbeu Korce (ALB)
Steaua Bucuresti (ROU) 3-0, 2-1, (5-1) Vardar (MKD)
Viktoria Plzen (CZE) 4-3, 2-1, (6-4) Zeljeznicar (BIH)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) 1-1, 5-0, (6-1) Sutjeska Niksic (MNE)
Birkirkara (MLT) 0-0, 0-2, (0-2) Maribor (SLO)
Sligo Rovers (IRL) 0-1, 0-2, (0-3) Molde (NOR)
Elfsborg (SWE) 7-1, 4-0, (11-1) Daugava Daugavpils (LAT)
HJK (FIN) 0-0, 1-2, (1-2) Nomme Kalju (EST)
Ekranas (LTU) 0-1, 1-2, (1-3) FH (ISL)
The New Saints (WAL) 1-3, 0-1, (1-4) Legia Warsaw (POL)
Cliftonville (NIR) 0-3, 0-2, (0-5) Celtic (SCO)
Fola Esch (LUX) 0-5, 0-1, (0-6) Dinamo Zagreb (CRO)
Gyor (HUN) 0-2, 1-2, (1-4) Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR)
BATE Borisov (BLR) 0-1, 0-1, (0-2) Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ)
Shirak (ARM) 1-1, 0-0, (1-1) Partizan (SRB)
Slovan Bratislava (SVK) 2-1, 0-3, (2-4) Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) 6-1, 3-1, (9-2) EB/Streymur (FAR)
 
 
Last year, BATE Borisov beat Bayern Munich in the CL group stage.  This year, they just lost at home to Shakhter Karagandy in the second qualifying round.
 
 
There were a few surprises in the second qualifying round.  Shakhter Karagandy finished off BATE with another 1-0 win, this time at home.  HJK capped a terrible few weeks for Finnish clubs by getting eliminated by an Estonian club.  In the Europa League, Finnish clubs were eliminated by clubs from Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, and the Faroe Islands.
 
The other seeding upsets were Ludogorets, FH, and Skënderbeu Korçë, although I don't think the first two weren't actually much of a surprise.
 
 
The third round is set now:
 
Champions Bracket:
 
Basel (SUI) vs. Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR)
Molde (NOR) vs. Legia Warsaw (POL)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL) vs. Partizan (SRB)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) vs. Steaua Bucharest (ROU)
APOEL (CYP) vs. Maribor (SLO)
Celtic (SCO) vs. Elfsborg (SWE)
Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ) vs. Skënderbeu Korçë (ALB)
Austria Wien (AUT) vs. FH (ISL)
Nõmme Kalju (EST) vs. Viktoria Plzen (CZE)
Dinamo Zagreb (CZE) vs. Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA)
 
Non-Champions Bracket:
 
Nordsjælland (DEN) vs. Zenit St. Petersburg (RUS)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT) vs. Fenerbahçe (TUR)
PAOK (GRE) vs. Metalist Kharkiv (UKR)
PSV Eindhoven (NED) vs. Zulte Waregem (BEL)
Lyon (FRA) vs. Grasshopper (SUI)
 
 
Arsenal, Milan, Schalke, Real Sociedad, and Paços de Ferreira are still waiting to join the Non-Champions Bracket for the final playoff round.  The losers in the 3QR drop into the Europa League Playoff Round.  The winners advance to the CL Playoff Round and are guaranteed group stage football of some kind.
 
Because the 3QR draw is made before the 2QR round is completed, seeding is based on the teams that are "supposed" to advance based on their club coefficient.  So if there's an upset, the winning team gets to essentially take advantage of the seeding of the team they beat.  So in a 3QR match that was supposed to be BATE vs. Neftchi Baku, it's actually two teams with very low club coefficients in Shakhter Karagandy vs. Skënderbeu Korçë.  Clubs from Kazakhstan and Albania have never played in a group stage of any Euro competition before, so the winner of this home-and-home will be a first (most likely in the EL because whoever wins, their chances of getting out of the Playoff round are doubtful).
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Third Qualifying Round:
 
Basel (SUI) 1-0, 3-3, 4-3 Maccabi Tel Aviv (ISR)
Molde (NOR) 1-1, 0-0, 1-1 Legia Warsaw (POL)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL) 2-1, 1-0, 3-1 Partizan (SRB)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO) 0-2, 1-1, 1-3 Steaua Bucharest (ROU)
APOEL (CYP) 1-1, 0-0, 1-1 Maribor (SLO)
Celtic (SCO) 1-0, 0-0, 1-0 Elfsborg (SWE)
Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ) 3-0, 2-3, 5-3 Skënderbeu Korçë (ALB)
Austria Wien (AUT) 1-0, 0-0, 1-0 FH (ISL)
Nõmme Kalju (EST) 0-4, 2-6, 2-10 Viktoria Plzen (CZE)
Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) 1-0, 3-0, 4-0 Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA)
 
Nordsjælland (DEN) 0-1, 0-5, 0-6 Zenit St. Petersburg (RUS)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT) 1-1, 1-3, 2-4 Fenerbahçe (TUR)
PAOK (GRE) 0-2, 1-1, 1-3 Metalist Kharkiv (UKR)
PSV Eindhoven (NED) 2-0, 3-0, 5-0 Zulte Waregem (BEL)
Lyon (FRA) 1-0, 1-0, 2-0 Grasshopper (SUI)
 
 
Maribor's win over APOEL might be the biggest surprise, but nothing too shocking.  The losers parachute into the Europa League Playoff Round.  The winners are all guaranteed group stage football of some sort, although whether it's CL or EL depends on how they fare in the final qualifying round.
 
 
Playoff Round
 
The 10 winners from the Champions Bracket play for 5 places.  The five winners from the non-Champions Bracket are joined by some (mostly) heavy hitters and play for another five.  The draw is tomorrow and the seeding is as follows:
 
Champions:
Seeded:
Basel (SUI)
Celtic (SCO)
Steaua Bucharest (ROU)
Viktoria Plzen (CZE)
Dinamo Zagreb (CRO)
 
Unseeded:
Austria Wien (AUT)
Legia Warsaw (POL)
Maribor (SLO)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
Shakhter Karagandy (KAZ)
 
Non-Champions:
Seeded:
Arsenal (ENG)
Lyon (FRA)
Milan (ITA)
Schalke (GER)
Zenit St. Petersburg (RUS)
 
Unseeded:
PSV Eindhoven (NED)
Metalist Kharkiv (UKR)
Fenerbahçe (TUR)
Real Sociedad (ESP)
Paços de Ferreira (POR)
 
 
 
Hard to imagine many seeds going down on either side, but you never know.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Metalist Kharkiv lost their CAS appeal, so their banning for match fixing will stand. They are replaced by PAOK Salonika, the team Metalist beat in the last round

So I think if Fenerbahce loses their appeal, they would be replaced by the team they defeated, Red Bull Salzburg. Which really, really would suck for the Turkish team that Fener replaced.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Infield Infidel said:
Metalist Kharkiv lost their CAS appeal, so their banning for match fixing will stand. They are replaced by PAOK Salonika, the team Metalist beat in the last round
So I think if Fenerbahce loses their appeal, they would be replaced by the team they defeated, Red Bull Salzburg. Which really, really would suck for the Turkish team that Fener replaced.
 
 
All of these last-minute changes are so CONCACAF-ish.  Decide who will play and who will not play before the draw is made and the matches have begun, please.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Here's the weird thing: Arsenal play at Fener this week and next. Does it matter? If Fener lose their appeal, Arsenal automatically advance. And Red Bull Salzburg and Besiktas don't have the opportunity to play. 
 

Vinho Tinto

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 9, 2003
7,047
Auburn, MA
Zenit trounced Pacos 4-1 at Porto's stadium. Zenit was a notch above in class & benefitted a little from Lady Luck being on their side. They were without Hulk picked a muscle injury vs Anzhi, but the attack looked strong regardless. Danny can't play LW for Portugal due to CR7, but he's a different Kay on that side. Arshavin came off the bench to set up the 4th goal. A nice little weapon to have.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,548
KPWT
Infield Infidel said:
I think Europa league is here to stay. They've already announced that starting with the 2015 Europa Champions, the Europa Champion will get a CL spot. That should provide more motivation for big clubs to take it more seriously. The window to change the competition from 2015-2018 closes July 1.
 
Would this allow for a 5th team from the BPL to get into the CL, or would the 4 teams per League limit still be in place? Obviously the example for this year would be if Spurs or Swansea won the Europa this year, but still finished outside the top 4 in the BPL this season. This would create some interesting decisions in April / May if a team was 5th or 6th in the table and in the semis or finals of the Europa League. 
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Today's results:
 
Arsenal 2-0 Fenerbahce (5-0 agg)
PAOK 2-3 Schalke 04 (3-4 agg)
Legia Warsaw 2-2 Steaua Bucharest (3-3 agg, AGR)
Basel 2-0 Ludogorets Razgrad (6-2 agg)
Austria Wien 2-3 Dinamo Zagreb (4-3 agg)
 
Schalke kept coughing up the lead in Greece, but eventually pulled away despite going down a man thanks to our very own Jermaine Jones getting himself sent off after a second yellow.
 
The wildest game seemed to be in Vienna.  Dinamo were in a huge hole after losing 2-0 at home and then conceded an early goal.  Then, they stormed back with three goals to take the lead on the away goals rule, but Austria Wien scored a late goal to advance.  This is Austria's first representation in the CL group stage since 2005-06.
 
Steaua held off Legia in a tough near-miss for the Poles, who haven't sent a club to the CL group stage since Widzew Lodz in 1996-97.  Given the sort of minnows that pop up from time to time, that's real underachievement for Poland.
 
 
Arsenal was never in doubt after winning 3-0 in Istanbul during the first leg.  Basel similarly finished off weaker opponents at home after an away win in the first leg.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
The seeding pots for the group stage won't be finalized until after tomorrow's qualifiers, but it's starting to come into focus.
 
Pot 1:
Bayern Munich (TH)
Barcelona
Chelsea
Real Madrid
Manchester United
Arsenal
Porto
Benfica
 
Pot 2:
Atletico Madrid
Olympique Lyon
Shakhtar Donetsk
AC Milan
Schalke 04
Olympique Marseille
CSKA Moscow
Paris Saint-Germain
 
Pot 3:
Juventus
Zenit St. Petersburg
Manchester City
Ajax
Borussia Dortmund
Basel
Olympiakos
Galatasaray
 
Pot 4:
Bayer Leverkusen
Copenhagen
Napoli
Anderlecht
Celtic
Steaua Bucharest
Viktoria Plzen
Austria Wien
 
 
Lyon looks very likely to fall to Real Sociedad, who will instead go into Pot 4, so Juventus and Leverkusen will probably move up a pot.
 
Zenit has about a 0% chance of losing to Pacos at this point.
 
If PSV upset Milan, Zenit will move up to Pot 2 (assuming Lyon also lose) and PSV will go into Pot 3.
 
The Celtic/Shakhtyor and Plzen/Maribor winners will wind up in Pot 4 either way.
 
 
 
If Shakhtyor Karagandy hold off Celtic, I think they'd be the smallest minnow in CL history.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Gunfighter 09 said:
 
Would this allow for a 5th team from the BPL to get into the CL, or would the 4 teams per League limit still be in place? Obviously the example for this year would be if Spurs or Swansea won the Europa this year, but still finished outside the top 4 in the BPL this season. This would create some interesting decisions in April / May if a team was 5th or 6th in the table and in the semis or finals of the Europa League. 
IIRC, it would allow a 5th team from the Prem into CL. But the max is 5. If teams from the Prem won both the CL and Europa League, and neither qualify via league, then the 4th place team would get bumped to Europa League, and I think the 5th place team would be in Europa League, as they are increasing the maximum EL teams to three. 
 
Also, just read that if the Europa League winner also qualifies from its domestic league, it is automatically in the group stage http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/organisation/executivecommittee/news/newsid=1956131.html
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
The second half of qualifiers are now complete, with no surprises.
 
Zenit St. Petersburg 4-2 Estoril (8-3 agg)
Maribor 0-1 Viktoria Plzen (1-4 agg)
Celtic 3-0 Shakhter Karagandy (3-2 agg)
Real Sociedad 2-0 Lyon (4-0 agg)
AC Milan 3-0 PSV Eindhoven (4-1 agg)
 
Only Celtic was ever in doubt, but they pulled through even if they left it late.
 
 
Lyon's loss means that Juventus and Leverkusen each move up a seeding pot for tomorrow's draw.
 
Pot 1:
Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Arsenal, Porto, Benfica
 
Pot 2:
Atletico Madrid, Shakhtar Donetsk, AC Milan, Schalke 04, Marseille, CSKA Moscow, Paris Saint-Germain, Juventus
 
Pot 3:
Zenit St. Petersburg, Manchester City, Ajax, Borussia Dortmund, Basel, Olympiacos, Galatasaray, Bayer Leverkusen
 
Pot 4:
Copenhagen, Napoli, Anderlecht, Celtic, Steaua Bucharest, Viktoria Plzen, Real Sociedad, Austria Wien
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Vinho Tinto said:
I don't understand how Benfica are in Pot 1 and Dortmund are in Pot 3. 
 
The seeding methodology rewards consistency.
 
Benfica:
 
2008-09 -- EL group stage
2009-10 -- EL quarterfinal
2010-11 -- EL semifinal
2011-12 -- CL quarterfinal
2012-13 -- EL final
 
Borussia Dortmund:
 
2008-09 -- lost in UEFA Cup qualification round
2009-10 -- DNP
2010-11 -- EL group stage
2011-12 -- CL group stage
2012-13 -- CL final
 
 
It all adds up to this seeding ranking.  It takes the last five years into account, but doesn't weigh recent results more heavily.  IMO it weighs Europa League results too heavily as well.
 

Vinho Tinto

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 9, 2003
7,047
Auburn, MA
Thanks for the explanation. UEFA does weigh too much into the EL, but on the other hand they do need to give it some level of value. Teams treat it as Europe's Coca-Cola Cup as it is. 
 
Saw on twitter that 6 of the 8 clubs in Pot 1 have new managers. Benfica and Arsenal are the only holdovers (and with Benfica that was not always certain).
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,446
Vinho Tinto said:
Thanks for the explanation. UEFA does weigh too much into the EL, but on the other hand they do need to give it some level of value. Teams treat it as Europe's Coca-Cola Cup as it is. 
 
Saw on twitter that 6 of the 8 clubs in Pot 1 have new managers. Benfica and Arsenal are the only holdovers (and with Benfica that was not always certain).
 
I should add that another important factor is that it rewards teams that are always in Europe.  If you miss out on a year or two, your ranking will plummet.  That's tougher on German clubs who play in a league that is more balanced than England or Portugal.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,942
The Slums of Shaolin
Madrid-Juve will be tasty affairs but its a shame they couldn't get matched up with another good team to push them.
 
Group H. Ouch.
 

AgentOrange

Member
SoSH Member
May 15, 2007
476
Too bad PSG couldn't have replaced Marsaille in F. That would have been fun.

Man City might finally get a knockout round appearance for their billions.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
Zomp said:
Madrid-Juve will be tasty affairs but its a shame they couldn't get matched up with another good team to push them.
 
Group H. Ouch.
 
Galatasary made it to the to QFs last year and have Sneijder and Drogba.  They are certainly underdogs but they aren't pushovers either.  
 

Turrable

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2011
2,670
Nobody bumped this for day 1? I have class from 2:30-3:45 on Tuesdays I am...not pleased
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
I'm working from home/home sick today and I watched most of ManU/Leverkusen.  ManU was dominant  (one of the Leverkusen goals was very late) and their goals were beautiful.  Rooney was very active and looked dangerous.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
Rest of today:
 
Olympiacos 1-4 PSG
Galatsaray 1-6 Real Madrid
Benfica 2-0 Anderlecht
Kobenhavn 1-1 Juventus
Bayern 3-0 CSKA
Real Sociedad 0-2 Shaktar Donetsk
Plzen 0-3 Man City
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,282
AZ
Is this the general CL thread?  Apologies if not.
 
Why the heck do all 8 games have to kick off at the same time?  It would be nice to watch two games on the day, which seems only to happen when there's a game deep in an eastern time zone.   I can understand simultaneous kick offs late in the group stages within the same group, but it just doesn't make sense now.
 
My general rule of thumb when confronted with something that doesn't make complete sense is to decide whether sex or revenge could be a motive.  If not, the answer is pretty much always "money," but I don't understand how that plays out here.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,568
California. Duh.
Keep in mind these are weekday evening games and most of Europe is in the same time zone.  Unless you want games kicking off while people are still at work or at 10 PM local time, it's tough to stagger them.