LeBron to LA
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Yep and LAL would have to beat them both. And likely have a very tough first round opponent in Utah or OKC.
How do you figure that this Laker team that he is punting on this season has high expectations? They look like a 50-win team with a shot to scare some people in the playoffs to me......does anyone really expect more this coming season? People who criticized Durant for ring chasing with the Warriors are now criticizing LeBron for starting a Laker rebuild on his own using a multi-year commitment to the organization (not necessarily you Kliq)……..people can't have it both ways. This decision was about more than simply NBA basketball but in a year he'll have Kawhi along with other pieces such as Howard or maybe even Bosh in a return. Year 2 of LeBron's Lakers have the potential to be a scary team.
Lopez would have been a better fit than McGee for what they are doing. They need the shooting that Lopez would provide that Javale doesn't offer. I think Lonzo and Ingram will both benefit quite a bit playing with LeBron, since all three are very good, quick passers, both in the half court and in transition. But the two young guys can't really shoot, so the spacing will be terrible, even when Kuzma and KCP are on the court with those three.
The real question for next year is how much improvement to Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo and Randle make in years, 2,3,2 and 4. Assuming they continue on any kind of upward trajectory, the Lakers can't really lose waiting the Spurs out. Kawhi becomes less valuable and all of the Lakers' young guys just gain value (assuming they improve) over the next year. If I was Pelinka & Magic, I wouldn't pay anything more than Ingram or Lonzo, Deng and a #1 for Kawhi.
The real question for next year is how much improvement to Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo and Randle make in years, 2,3,2 and 4. Assuming they continue on any kind of upward trajectory, the Lakers can't really lose waiting the Spurs out. Kawhi becomes less valuable and all of the Lakers' young guys just gain value (assuming they improve) over the next year. If I was Pelinka & Magic, I wouldn't pay anything more than Ingram or Lonzo, Deng and a #1 for Kawhi.
Nah, it would probably go just like the last time they played where all of the #2/#3 picks were hurt or terrible and the guy picked 27th wins the game by himself.
Marks on SportsCenter says after tonight’s moves it would be almost impossible to acquire Kawhi financially this summer. Appears they are going to just wait for next summer and sign him. Puts Pop in an interesting spot. Magic may have won a stare down with him.
This is probably helpful for the thread:
Draymond is getting kicked out of no fewer than two Lakers - Dubs games next year.
So one more roster spot, which is almost certainly a point guard. They still have the MLE, correct?
Draymond is getting kicked out of no fewer than two Lakers - Dubs games next year.
So one more roster spot, which is almost certainly a point guard. They still have the MLE, correct?
Won how? The Lakers ain’t winning this year and LeBron will turn 35 next season. Pops still has other suitors and he will still be the one in control of Kawhi’s supermax if he shows he can still play. If Kawhi dicks around, I 100% expect Pops to file complaints to make Kawhi miserable.
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In that they will keep all their assets and sign him next summer. And the other offers will likely be paltry knowing it’s a one year rental.
I pretty sure the last person in the NBA you want to play games with is Popovich.
Who cares about supermax? Kawhi would make more in endorsements in one year with LeBron in LA than his supermax contract would add in SA.
The other thing for LA - based on how Cleveland basically turned over their entire roster at the all star break this year and still surprised most people by making the finals, LA has to feel pretty confident that they don't need Kawhi at the start of the season to either make the playoffs or to have the entire season to adjust their playbook. So they also have the option of waiting the Spurs out - what other team is going to make a huge offer at the trade deadline for a half season of Kawhi when he's still making it clear he's signing in LA at the end of the year?
Along that vein, the only thing I'd say is that I think this makes it much more likely Kawhi plays this year, as the only thing that can hurt him at this point is if he still holds out and the Spurs find some way to prevent his free agency or can prove tampering.
Yeah, I don’t get that thinking. LeBron turns 34 in December. Every year that Magic doesn’t put a contender on the court is a waste of LeBron’s greatness. Next year the Lakers won’t even be close.
This talk about LeBron's age is reminiscent of the talk of him being "fatigued" by playing too many minutes the past couple years. It's sillytalk. If one year from now the Lakers have LeBron and Kawhi along with a bunch of quality role players they are competing with Golden State and Boston for a Championship...….6 months ago they looked like a bottom 5 team without much hope.
To call today anything but a colossal win for Magic and the Lakers is not analyzing this team clearly imo.
I haven't done a poll or anything; but I imagine that a lot of Laker fans are expecting at the very least, championship contention this upcoming season, if not a title. Rationale, unbiased fans can suggest that realistically the Lakers are not real contenders this year; but to the masses anything less than a championship this year will look like a disappointment for LeBron. Oddsmakers right now have them at 7/2, with only Houston and GS with better odds: https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/philadelphia-sixers-los-angeles-lakers-lebron-james-nba-finals-vegas-odds-sports-betting
Your optimism in your teams is always infectious. I’m as sure this will happen as I am that President Rubio will be hosting the Champion Raiders at the White House.
Actually only GS has better odds. LAL (and Boston) are both 3.5/1, Houston is now 7/1. It's fun to think that this move more than doubled the Celtics chances of winning the title (from 8/1 to 3.5/1), while halving Houston's chances.
Rockets have worse odds than the Lakers in your link (7/1 vs. 7/2). Only GSW is ahead and Celtics are tied with Lakers.
Yeah I don’t get that really. The Rockets were a 65 win team. Have to think those LA numbers must include the possibility of adding Kawhi.
That tweet has to be looking at opening lines, not immediately before & after Lebron to the Lakers. Celtics at 8/1 was only available for a fleeting moment until they settled closer to 6/1 or 5/1, depending on your book of choice. Lebron didn't move the Celtics odds as much as this article makes it seem (probably because his signing was already accounted for by bettors).
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You can't take Westgate or other Vegas lines on the Lakers at face value because of the huge number of LA based betters who flood the casinos with dumb bets on their favorite team.
This got a laugh, nice work. Of note, Derek Carr certainly has the right idea about all of this:
Huh? We’re not talking about LeBron. We’re talking about Spurs and Lakers and Kawhi. LeBron was obviously a coup for the Lakers but I’m not sure Magic won a staredown with Pop, as the poster claimed. We all knew LeBron was going to LA and that Kawhi favored going to LA. Today’s events literally changed nothing.
Kawhi is still on the Spurs and LeBron’s current Lakers team is still not a real challenge to the Warriors. If Pop blinks and trades Kawhi to LA for a couple of used basketballs, then we can start making these proclamations. Until then, the offseason has played out exactly as we all envisioned so far for the Lakers. Actually, it’s been worse since they were supposed to also have Paul George by now.
This is a No True Scotsman fallacy.
You made a general statement. I gave a counterexample of very recent vintage - "someone who only wants to be somewhere else" being persuaded to remain somewhere other than that initial place of his desire, thereby making the trading for him worth giving up some choice assets (Oladipo and Sabonis). That person also happened to be an all-star, a top-10%-of-the-league player. Now the goalposts have shifted such that somehow, only a post about Kawhi Leonard himself could possibly speak to a situation comparable to Kawhi's.
You could have chosen to backtrack from overstating the case. You could have chosen to distinguish the two situations, though surely it's easier to persuade someone to remain in Boston in 2018 than in OKC in 2016. Or you could just, ya know, double down with being a dick:
Maybe both-guns-blazing isn't the best way to defend your over-generalization and impress everyone with your stupefying intellect.
Maybe the phrasing was wrong, but Magic effectively bowed out of trading for Kawhi and is willing to wait a year. Pop isn’t getting his assets. And no one is going to unload a ton for a Kawhi rental. Pop’s highest trade return is gone.
I don't see anyone criticizing Lebron for starting a Laker rebuild on his own, as far as the competitiveness side of it (i.e. the Durant comparison). Certainly, he could pull off assembling another super-team by year 2, if they do sign a FA Kawhi Leonard, and quickly become fearsome just as you say. That said, his talent and magnetism for other talent probably could have done so at a great many other teams as well.
I do however see the point of people either lamenting or mocking that the Lakers, specifically, have some sort of mystique and aura that's supposed to be tantalizing to players. Somehow this makes them a better destination than alternatives with a superior set of basketball assets, and gets bandwagon-jumpers and casual fans in Los Angeles all happy in the pants. Those fans' swaggering, ignorant feelings of superiority is all over everyone's social media feeds right now, and we've been having to hear about all this bullshit for much of the last year besides. And Lebron James, of all people, has now decided to kneel before that mystique and aura. As a Boston fan, it is both right and good that we should mock this and wish him ill.
It’s still premature. For starters, we have no idea what Magic was offering before today nor do we know what return SA ultimately will get. We can all presume it’ll go down but who knows until it happens.
You've talked of Gregg Popovich suing Kawhi Leonard twice now. As in, going to court and demanding something from a player on his own basketball team, under some sort of legal theory.
Could you maybe point to one other instance of this ever happening in NBA history?
As great as he is, it's hard for me to believe Lebron isn't entering the phase of his career where he's going to be "just" a star player vs. Superman. There must be more to this plan than just "wait a year for Kawhi," right?
Injury seems like the only thing to keep the C's from a string of title-contending years.
Injury seems like the only thing to keep the C's from a string of title-contending years.
ESPN should fill out the form, too. They're going to be insufferable, aren't they?
Toronto has to be quietly celebrating and taking their team off the trade block.
Still, think the Celtics will handle them but Kryptobron is gone and they have some nice young players that can further develop.
Still, think the Celtics will handle them but Kryptobron is gone and they have some nice young players that can further develop.
I think it’s pretty clear at this point that LeBron was always going to LA. Given that, I would hardly call how this free agency situation and Kawhi has turned out a win. I also would not assume Kawhi will be on the Lakers moving forward. One of the major reasons LA appears to be not a serious threat to Golden State this season is that a guy we all assumed would be joining him for the past year spurned LeBron and his home team. Maybe Kawhi gets traded to a big market, gets his shoe endorsements or whatever, and decides to stay.
Talk about age is not sillytalk. If the Lakers do not get Kawhi or another star this season, they will not beat Golden State and LeBron will be 35 the next season. He might still have been great this season, but 35 is 35 and we’re talking about the NBA here, not quarterback or pitcher. Deterioration of skills, injuries - something is likely to give the next few seasons.
Of course it’s still a win to get LeBron, a major win, but poo pooing next season is silly. They need to move fast.
I don’t believe I have. I mentioned Fultz before for his GM divulging his mental health issues on Twitter, depending on how their contracts/CBA handle mental health and HIPAA.
As for Kawhi, if he pulls the same shit he did last year, I would be surprised if Pop/the Spurs did not initiate some sort of league complaint for breach of contract. The exact logistics of how that would work, I don’t know. There would be some process set up through the CBA to address this, whether it’s a league office investigation or something more independent. Usually players are traded, avoiding this, but if Pop isn’t getting the offers he wants and Kahwi is using the “my personal doctor says I can’t play” excuse, something is going to give, especially after Kawhi’s “I want out” meeting. I could see them going after his money and trying to toll the contract, for example.
That notwithstanding, I removed the word “lawsuit” and kept league complaint in. It would be an internal process dictated by the CBA, though certainly a legal one.
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Not sure you can say this. The outcome is essentially a draw. Kawhi would have to turn down an enormous amount of money next season (assuming he plays well) to join the Lakers.
Where the Lakers did win is avoiding the entirely real possibility that they empty the war chest for Kawhi and discover that he'll never be the same player again.
There is no MLE for teams that entered the offseason under the cap, but they can sign as many vet minimum players as they want.
This is awesome.
I hate Lebron. I hate the Lakers. Perfect hate watching.
Also, good on Lebron. He didnt take the easy route and he committed, essentially, the rest of his career there. By doing this, hes challenging for the greatest player of all time. Going to the west, building a team from scratch while flying solo, having to dethrone a historically great GS team? If he somehow wins a title in LA, it probably solidifies him as the GOAT.
Lebron in LA makes this league a lot more fun.
I hate Lebron. I hate the Lakers. Perfect hate watching.
Also, good on Lebron. He didnt take the easy route and he committed, essentially, the rest of his career there. By doing this, hes challenging for the greatest player of all time. Going to the west, building a team from scratch while flying solo, having to dethrone a historically great GS team? If he somehow wins a title in LA, it probably solidifies him as the GOAT.
Lebron in LA makes this league a lot more fun.
Randle is still an RFA, no? His potential salary must figure in large in their cap considerations.
So if George had signed in LA, would you then be far more uncomfortable seeing Ainge give up assets of a certain value for Kawhi?
Let's say the Lakers' roster stays the same as it is now. Is it better than Cleveland's this past year?
Randle seems like a solid player now. Ball - other than shooting - is really good, but he needs the ball to be his best. And LeBron obviously is a ball-dominant player. Stevenson is an enigma but has some ability. Kuzma and Ingram are interesting young players. I don't think as constituted they have a prayer of getting out of the West, but are they better than Cleveland was this past year?
Randle seems like a solid player now. Ball - other than shooting - is really good, but he needs the ball to be his best. And LeBron obviously is a ball-dominant player. Stevenson is an enigma but has some ability. Kuzma and Ingram are interesting young players. I don't think as constituted they have a prayer of getting out of the West, but are they better than Cleveland was this past year?
Oddsmakers setting this line know they are going to get a shit ton of dumb money pouring in regardless of price. It doesn't make any sense for them to set it at 7-1, 10-1 or whatever. Their job of setting a line isn't designed to provide expectations of them winning. My FB is loaded with Laker fans who are thrilled and excited about them having a shot once Kawhi arrives while enjoying to see a contender again. Not even they are fantasizing about LeBron winning a title in Year One.
Because after their additional signings last night it’s very hard to make it work financially. They don’t sign KCP if they are still trying to get Kawhi this summer.
My main fear is this negates the possibility of Griffin getting hired as the new GM in Philly and they snatch Mike Zarren away instead.
I'm a little surprised by all the other moves they're making, which seem unlikely to make them a real contender with GS/HOU, but do set them up nicely for next year. Lebron's 33, and while I expect he has a lot of good years left, there's not so many of them that I'd think he's willing to throw one away waiting for other max players to join him. On top of that, if the goal is to aim for next season to be competitive, why wouldn't he have just stayed in Cleveland for one more year, where his path to the finals is still much easier, and then made the move next year? Seems a little odd to me, unless he was just really ready for the LA chapter to begin, surrounding talent be damned.
Even if Pop were to trade Kawhi to the Lakers (always zero imo)…….you want him to take back two years of Deng to make the Lakers a super power? C'mon now.
The moves that the Lakers made post-LeBron yesterday show that they now believe, if they didn't already, that Pop is not going to trade Kawhi to them. The immediate signing of Wagner to his rookie deal was the big tell here as he can't be moved for 30 days now.
I love me some Celtics front office, but are you saying your fears could be realized because Mike Zarren > Lebron?
DemSox, this has to be the ultimate glass is half empty: Lebron leaves the East, the Celtics path just got harder?
I’m a bit surprised that the Lakers haven’t really addressed one of their biggest needs, 3 point shooting. They ranked second from the bottom in 3-point FG% and while LeBron helps a bit in that department (36.7% from 3 last year) I thought that they would go after more of a sniper, like Wayne Ellington. There's certainly plenty of time to pick up a guy like that, I wonder how much cap space they have left to do so.
I think part of the theory is that having Lebron (and his ability to penetrate and draw double teams) will improve the quality of the looks the other guys get a significant amount. The Lakers didn't have a single guy last year who you really had to worry about one-on-one...that has now changed immeasurably.
I was merely pointing out that it is still financially possible for LA to trade for Kawhi, not that it's likely. You don't seem to be reading these posts closely.
Oh, I was dancing in the proverbial streets with the rest of the Celtics fan base last night. By “main fear” I meant it was the primary downside I see, not that that downside in any way outweighs the benefits of Lebron moving west.