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LeBron to LA

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Wait, Lebron didnt know his dad? I did not know this. TBH I am not a Lebron fan (or even interested in him) beyond hoping the Celts beat his teams. I also didnt follow the NBA as closely from 2010-16 as I did from 86-2010. So Its likely this is well known and I missed it.
    Someone mentioned the "perhaps best set of sports genes ever bestowed...". To that point WHO WAS HIS DAD? Was Wilt in Cleveland doing a promotional tour for Conan the Destroyer? Chris Carter leave campus one night? Julio Franco have a bad night at Short and need some company? <-- my leading contender). Joe Carter bored with being on the bench chatted up Ms. James? Did Arkansas and Mike Conley Sr have a Spring meet at OSU in 84? Did Magic and the Lakers have a late season game with Cleveland in 84?(HMMM...)

    I want to study this mystery mans other progeny. Are they on half a dozen pro or college teams? Or are they all 5'8 240 lb schlubs? Was it all the mom!?
     
  2. queenb

    queenb Member SoSH Member

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    Gloria James said back in 2002 that LeBron's biological father was a man named Anthony McClelland. Nobody has much to say about him except that he's a convicted felon.

    Another theory is Roland Bivins. He went to high school with LeBron's mom and looked just like him. This video explains it a bit and includes these pictures:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Soxfan in Fla

    Soxfan in Fla Member SoSH Member

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    The only thing I knew about Lebron’s parents before now is that Delonte West banged his mom.
     
  4. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks Queen B.

    Yea Roland Bivins sure seems like he is the guy.
     
  5. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Hockey isn't really popular among African Americans at all. They make up 3% of the NHL fan base. The only major sport that draws in less is NASCAR.
     
  6. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    I've never heard of the Roland Bivins theory until today and it's blowing my mind.

    I mean, at first I think it's kind of weird on in-depth people are going on figuring out the truth of what is a very private and personal matter; but given he probably has the best genetics of any athlete we have ever seen, it is fascinating to wonder who his father was. It seems odd though that LeBron and his mother wouldn't admit it was Bivins if that was the truth though, it isn't like him being the father would be more shameful than McCleland, but of course, we don't know the whole story.
     
    #456 Kliq, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  7. Soxfan in Fla

    Soxfan in Fla Member SoSH Member

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    Holy cow that looks like Lebron was retrofitted into the 1970’s in that pic. That guy looks just like Lebron.
     
  8. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    It was rhetorical, but thank you for the info. That's about 6x of what I would have guessed it was.
     
  9. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    I realize that hard work won't make me 6'8", but the thousands of hours Lebron has spent lifting, running, and training basketball has a lot more to do with his dominance than who his dad is. He's not a racehorse.
     
  10. queenb

    queenb Member SoSH Member

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    It's possible she doesn't even know for sure. All we have to go on is LeBron saying this:

    My guess is he either doesn't know his father's identity, or has a hunch but doesn't want to give whoever the person is any recognition, and also doesn't really want to know because, as he says, the abandonment is his fuel. It would be hard to stay mad at Bivins who got gunned down in his 20s, so why let himself believe that's who it is when he doesn't know for sure? Far better to run with the idea that maybe his father is still out there, not being there, and feeling dumber by the day that he didn't stick around. I'd probably do that.
     
  11. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    No doubt, but if we were looking to create the world's greatest athlete and could pick two athletes to procreate, it would be LeBron and Serena Williams. For stupid bar arguments it's interesting to examine LeBron's genetics.
     
  12. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    I see this a lot so I want to point it out as no one else seems to have.
    Lance Stephenson is a bad defensive player. By numerous metrics one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. His rep from playoffs and playing vs LeBron is a total outlier.
    He can't shoot and he can't defend, he's not a great passer but other than that.
    Jacob Goldstein has it as a 0% chance of being worth his contract. And it's not huge. He bad.
    Lonzo and KCP and lonzo was better in the NBA than anything he's ever shown before, it looked real but I want a bigger sample.
    The team is full of bad defensive players and so so shooting.

    Absolutely
     
  13. slamminsammya

    slamminsammya Member SoSH Member

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    When I saw that picture at first I thought it was Lebron doing some old time gag. How coukd it not be that guy? I mean would ya just look at it?!
     
  14. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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  15. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I would say that genetics work pretty much the same with humans and racehorses. He was a 1st Team HS All-American as a Sophomore before he even knew what conditioning was.
     
  16. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    i really like socially conscious Lebron. I just can't stand the anything to do with basketball version.
     
  17. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Bivins looks exactly like Bron, guess its the other way around...

    although the hair skipped a generation
     
  18. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

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    Balding likelihood comes from one’s maternal grandfather.
     
  19. NickEsasky

    NickEsasky Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em SoSH Member

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    This is false. I have done much research on the subject in my 20s.
     
  20. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    Most traits people think of as monogenic (hair color, eye color, male pattern baldness) are not.
     
  21. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Edit: read that too quickly, sorry
     
    #471 Jimbodandy, Aug 1, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  22. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    This conversation is a little icky to me, but why is LeBron a better athlete than Deion or Bo? Or are people hung up on the height?
     
  23. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Or Usain Bolt? Phelps? How do you measure it?
     
  24. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's hard to judge isn't it. I mean one of these guys from this piece of ESPN's list of the greatest athletes of the 20th century is clearly much faster stronger and bigger than the others:

     
  25. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah but he has no arms.
     
  26. Eagle3

    Eagle3 Member SoSH Member

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    Until Lebron becomes an All-Star in a second professional sport, I'm taking Bo all day long. Not sure about Serena. Clearly she's the best female tennis player of all time, but not sure about all-around athlete. Not horrible form, but she doesn't look like a natural here.
     
  27. BuellMiller

    BuellMiller lurker

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    No worse than Sabathia throwing to first tonight.
     
  28. NoXInNixon

    NoXInNixon Member SoSH Member

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    Sabathia doesn't make the top 10,000 athletes in the world.
     
  29. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    We can talk all day about what constitutes athleticism. I think there’s a lot of fetishization of strength and speed whereas reflex and coordination are undersold.

    Speaking of which, what’re LeBron’s measurables? He never struck me as particularly fast or agile. Shit, I’d think Gronk is likely the better athlete, all in.
     
  30. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    It's an interesting question. And as the resident Serena superfan here, I'm going to ruminate on it, because I'm hydrating after a long night out.

    If Serena saw a path where, 10 years down the line, after obsessive-compulsive practice and film study, she could go out and straight crush fools in another sport, she might take it up. She pretty much feeds off the pain of the vanquished, like a tennis dementor. Hates practice, hates conditioning, but puts up with it solely because of how good it feels curtsying to a cheering crowd after she's sent another tall eastern european blonde to the showers. She is not the most physically gifted female athlete I've ever seen, though she's not too far off, but it's her mentality (and problem-solving ability on the court) that has made her what she is.

    The problem is that no other sport for women has the kind of talent depth that tennis does, so it's a natural choice for where to find the best female athletes. The talent depth in female tennis today is frequently compared to itself in other eras, and also to the depth in men's tennis. That the comparison is made at all speaks volumes; it's the only sport in which such comparisons are even made in non-mocking terms. So then you compare to the LPGA, and yeah, Serena could teach herself how to hit, but she's never going to really end up standing over the metaphorical corpse of someone she has crushed, so I'm not sure it'd excite her that much. But even if she were motivated, there will be other golfers who can make shots she'll never gain the reps to make. Likewise, she's not going to have the eye-foot coordination of a Carli Lloyd, nor the straight distance endurance of most olympic runners, nor the flexibility and body control of a gymnast. Her footwork on the court, when at her best, is world class, but that's rote practice and muscle memory rather than extraordinary genetics.

    She's not without pure athletic assets - she's willing to suffer on the court, beyond the breaking point of many professionals, in order to turn a match around and outlast someone. That's Rafael Nadal's calling card, for example, and it's won him titles and admiration. Her eye-hand coordination on volleys and at net is great, though not especially so among the top 100 tennis players. Balance and body control to hit with her trademark power, that's athleticism. Her GOAT-level serving ability... well, you have to read your opponent, know what their weakness is at any given time, and then execute to one of 3 locations (T, wide, body) with one of several spins or deliveries, a high percentage of the time. It's probably comparable to pitching, and she's definitely the Pedro of tennis serving. But that requires only a certain amount of athletic talent, probably not all that far off the bell curve - and then an absurd amount of mental focus.

    So what's made her what she is is probably 60% mental abilities manifested in ways from game tactics to shot consistency, 30% willingness to out-practice and out-suffer people on the court, and 10% god-given talent to hit super powerful groundstrokes and top-of-tour serve speeds. Is she as much of a natural even at her chosen sport as, say, Steffi Graf was? Probably not. Was she born to dominate a sport of her choosing the way, I dunno, an olympic Heptathlete like Jessica Ennis was? Or a basketball natural like Elena Delle Donne? Or Katie Ledecky? Probably not. Yeah, I think there's a meaningful difference there: Serena Williams, for all her gifts, probably could never become (and could never have become) a world-class athlete in swimming, track and field, gymnastics, stuff that worships youth, insists on a body type, and relies on genetic physical gifts more than anything. I could see her practicing the shit out of something as a second career, and ending up dominating a shallower pool, like in (say) shooting or rowing or, hell, even wrestling. Something where her mental focus delivers a premium. It'd be awesome, too. But I think that's categorically different.

    Yeah, I dunno if I'd pair her with Lebron to make super-children. She's the best in the world at the sport with the deepest female talent pool in the world, but she's all that through a combination of things that just aren't hereditary, not in the same way that an explosive first step and an absurd physique are hereditary.
     
    #480 InstaFace, Aug 3, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  31. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Edit: This is not a rejoinder to @InstaFace 's analysis of Serena--he posted while I was googling.
     
  32. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    You guys always do this. Sports are made up games. If someone hadn’t invented tennis or golf or basketball, some people would be great athletes regardless. Yeah Serena probably wouldn’t be great at gymnastics or soccer. So what? They’re made up games. She’s preternaturally strong. Has amazing endurance and above average reflexes. She’s a great athlete. You don’t need to analyze her abilities in other made up games to tell that.

    Floyd Mayweather is perhaps the greatest living male athlete. I don’t think he could play D3 in any other sport. Doesn’t matter a bit.
     
  33. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    Like, is Brady a better QB and a better football player than Rogers and Kaepernick? Yes. Is he a better athlete? Not even close.
     
  34. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Remember how in '80s movies it was imagined that special forces guys were 260 pounds of muscle rucking through the jungle?
     
  35. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    It was a matter of time before the phrase "Jumped the shark" came to mind in some of these offseason threads.

     
  36. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah.

    I love me some Gronk, and certainly Marciano is right that we overvalue strength and speed in the "athleticism" evaluation. But we're losing sight of what a beast LBJ is. I'm fairly certain that he could join an NFL training camp right now and be a productive TE. Gronk wouldn't see the floor on a D1 college hoops team.
     
  37. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    1,490
    LeBron could have been a top NFL receiver. Apparently, one of his coaches in HS was former Packer safety Mark Murphy, who was the defensive coordinator on LeBron's HS football team said the best four receivers he ever was around were Largent, Lofton, Rice, and LeBron.

    James was a total beast as a wide receiver in high school in Ohio, an all stater in his soph and junior years, recruited by ND, Florida State, and Ohio State.
     
  38. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    I meant in the context of an elite athlete. What would you say his 40 time is? 4.7, 4.8?
     
  39. adam42381

    adam42381 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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  40. Eagle3

    Eagle3 Member SoSH Member

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    This comes down to the definition of Athlete, which has a lot of different nuances to it.
    There is raw, pure, athletic ability independent of sport, measured strictly by speed, strength, coordination, etc. Then there is
    athletic ability as applied to playing a sport/game. And then there is specialized athletic ability as applied to a specific sport.

    As mentioned, Brady and Mayweather are among the greatest athletes All-Time within the confines of their sport, but neither
    would be anywhere near the list of those with great overall athletic ability. And then there are people who are amazingly fast
    sprinters and/or are incredibly strong and/or have off the charts numbers in other measured tests of athletic ability, and yet they
    are unable to apply that in a way that translates to excellence in a sport/game environment.

    My personal definition when talking about ALL AROUND great athletes are the people who have the ability to apply their athleticism and
    do well in pretty much ANY sport/game. That's why I'm taking Bo Jackson.
    He had world class speed and incredible power and coordination, and applied that to the tune of being the only person ever
    to be an All-Star in two different major sports (MLB and NFL). Not to mention 2 time state Decathlon champ in HS who set state records in the high jump and triple jump and had a really good college track and field career inbetween football and baseball. He was basically really, really good at anything he ever attempted, right on down to Archery.

    Given his sucess at football in HS and his obvious raw physical gifts I'd say it's highly likely that Lebron would be really good at just about any sport.
    But without tangible evidence, I'm sticking with Bo. Or Jim Brown. Or Jim Thorpe. Or Wilt Chamberlain as my sleeper pick.

    Babe Didrickson is my pick for women, but that's strictly based on what I've read given that she died long before I was born.
    She won 2 golds and a silver in the Olympics (hurdles, Javelin, and High Jump), was an All-American basketball player, won 10 major championships as a pro golfer, and even played some baseball. I'm not sure who the best living female candidate would be.
     
  41. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Wait, what? Mark Murphy who is president of the Packers? He played for Washington. Did you mean someone else?

    And color me a little uninspired by his quote. Comparing a 16 yo kid who was a physical freak compared to his competition to Largent and Rice is a tad hyperbolic.

    He’s a physical freak and always has been, but let’s not go too far here.
     
  42. Eagle3

    Eagle3 Member SoSH Member

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    Another definition of a great athlete is someone who makes everyone around them a better player.
    So getting back to the original topic, how much impact do people here think Lebron will have on the rest of the Lakers?

    As much as I will hate to see it as a Celtics fan and Lavar hater, I think he will make Lonzo much better in particular.
    Lonzo will likely improve on his own as most good players do in their second year. But I think Lebron will indirectly help improve
    his shooting. My theory is that Lonzo needs more time to get his shot off because of his unorthodox release. He was a pretty
    good shooter in college because he had that time, but in the NBA with guys having more gap closing speed and length he didn't have
    that time to get his shot off comfortably last year. With Lebron driving, drawing, and dishing as effectively as he does Lonzo is going to have that extra fraction of a second he needs much more often.
     
  43. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Seems so odd to me that basketball fans can't stand the best basketball player in world when it comes to basketball things
     
  44. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    Is it that odd for people to dislike the best player in the world? People didn’t like Bonds, or A Rod, or Brady, or Ronaldo; etc.
     
  45. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

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  46. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Why? Most of us here got really tired really quickly of Manning’s on field antics (‘Omaha!’), the dramatic pre snap stuff, him throwing his teammates under the bus, etc. And he did enough good stuff to have a children’s hospital named after him (before the dirt came out anyway). What seems odd to me is being unable to separate the player from the person. He’s a goddamn role model off it and I respect the shit out of him. He’s a marvel on it and I acknowledge that and think he’s one of the greatest ever. But I’ll never root for him and that has nothing to do with my loyalties. I will gladly admit that part of it isn’t his fault, the way he gets ball washed by ESPN so much grated on me. But he does plenty enough.
     
  47. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    One way to say it is, when his playing days are over, he will be more universally beloved than just about any other GOAT candidate in any sport. Jordan-Federer tier of respect, and moral leadership / a public platform, if he wants it. Jordan didn't want it, Federer doesn't seem to, but the likes of Ali, Pele and Jackie Robinson are where he could put himself if he wanted to.

    [​IMG]
     
  48. Tony C

    Tony C Dope Dope

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    Those guys are not the norm, though -- they're either accused of cheating (not necessarily correctly, of course) or in Ronaldo's case is just....an ass. But Messi is widely loved and for every Bonds could name 10 Ripkens who are widely appreciated.

    A guy like James is a privilege to watch, no matter what his team. Jordan was the same, much as I rooted against the Bulls at the time you just had to also say, wow, I'm watching the greatest at a sport I love.

    As for James making Lonzo Ball better, I'm intrigued by the mix of talent and I do think it'll be a test of whether LeBron is among the greatest ever or has a claim to be the greatest. His Miami team had the 3 studs and some complementary players and Cleveland was a bit similar in that with Kyrie -- as with Wade/Bosh -- it seemed like the star talent was used to take the pressure off...i..e, they'd alternate being the center of the offense and conserve energy that way, but always with a fair amount of ISO ball. The Lakers don't have a complementary star to LeBron, but they do have a ton of speed, passing ability, and guys (theoretically) on the rise like Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma. I think it'll be the first time LeBron's success will depend on raising the level of young players around him who have talent but not accomplishment. Going to be interesting to watch.
     
  49. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Some of y'all are going to be mad disappointed if you ever meet your favorite musicians or artists at a party or something.
     
  50. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    So you can dislike Ronaldo because you think he’s “an ass” but there is no way you can feel the same way about LeBron?
     

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