Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

La Liga 2018-19: The Next Generation

Discussion in 'Breakfast with Gazza (with Sachmoneious Bullcrap)' started by Zososoxfan, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Last season we had a La Liga thread in addition to the Atleti and Barca threads (no Meringues allowed!) and I thought it was a solid addition. Frankly, there's not always a ton of action in the club-specific threads, so the Liga thread acts as a catch-all at times.

    This season in particular could be a good one for a league thread. Real has gone thru a ton of change, headlined by the departures of Zizou and Ronaldo. The only incoming transfer I'm aware of is Odriozola from Sociedad, which is a nice pickup, but Carvajal is still around (and 26 years old) so this is not some crucial change. I've heard that Benz is still a possibility to leave, but that doesn't seem likely. Bale will really have the onus to shape this year's edition of Real, but he will have plenty of help from Isco, Modric, Kroos, and Casemiro. Asensio will have another year to show that his coming out party two seasons ago was legit and not a flash in the pan. Kovacic, Theo Hernandez, and Lucas Vazquez are still around, so the cupboard is not bare. Nevertheless, this is the shakiest I can remember Real coming into a season since the Mourinho days. I do not know much about Lopetegui as a manager. He has guided the Spain NT since 2016 to a 14-6-0 record (9-1-0 in WCQ) and before that he had 3 OK seasons with Porto. Not that Real would ever admit it, but this would be a great season for them to run out their young guns and see who could be a starter for the next great Madrid team. The current team's core is getting old (Modric, Kroos, Benz, Ramos, Marcelo) and they need to break in some players. Or they could just accelerate the transfer of Mbappe and they will keep threatening for hardware.

    Barca I discussed at length in the Barca thread, but I'm a bit worried about the attack. Luisito is on his last legs as a world class CF, Messi is getting older, Dembouz has all the promise in the world but is a teenager, and it's not clear what Coutinho's best role is for the club. The recent acquisition of Malcom gives Ernie an extra option, and there is some young attacking talent around in Denis, Alena, and Arnaiz, but Ernie has yet to show that he can create a world class attack when Messi and Suarez are not on form. Nevertheless, the club has made some intelligent defensive transfers in the past few seasons (Umtiti, Semedo, Lenglet, Mina, Digne) that will keep them very solid at the back, and if 1-2 players break thru in the MF (Roberto, Samper, Coutinho, Arthur), they could be very strong on a week-to-week basis, but the club may still have a problem in UCL.

    Atleti supporters are likely pleased with the summer transfer window headlined by Griezmann surprising many folks by staying with the Colchoneros instead of hopping over to Barca. Although I didn't think much of his WC, I think Griezmann is a top 10 attacking player in the world and he will continue to improve as he gets more familiar with Costa and his other mates. Bringing in Lemar was a bold move and gives them another dynamic attacker, which is key for this mostly defensive squad. Snapping up Rodri from Villareal was also a shrewd move although the MF is crowded with Saul, Koke, and Thomas. I will be watching the development of Angel Correa closely and Vietto is back from loan, although time is getting short for him in a hurry.

    Valencia are coming off a nice 4th place season and while they lost Cancelo (for $40M!), they grabbed Kondogbia, Diakhaby, Piccini, and Wass. They have a young hungry squad and Marcelino is a solid manager.

    Villareal finished 5th last season and while they lost the aforementioned Rodri to Atleti, they brought in Moreno from Espanyol, Ekambi, Caseres,and Funes Mori. They play attractive football and La Liga is more enjoyable when this club is competitive.

    Betis came out of nowhere last season and finished ahead of local rival Sevilla for 6th. They too attached like glorious bastards and scored 60 goals (only Barca, (99 lol), Real (94), Valencia (65), and Sociedad (66) hit that mark). They lost a promising MF in Ruiz to Napoli and a young CB in Pezzella to Fiorentina, but picked up Carvalho from Sporting.

    Sevilla round out the top 7 and although they have some quality players in Muriel, Banega, and Nzonzi, this is a pretty old team that may be headed for tougher days ahead. I love Joaquin Correa on the wing (Argentina homer alert!), but Lenglet was probably their best player last season and Barca got him.

    Last season's bottom 3 of Depor, Las Palmas, and Malaga were significantly worse than the rest of the league. Depor finished third from the bottom which was still 14 points worse than Leganes.

    Huesca from the Aragon region is joining La Liga for the first time in their history, Vallecano return after a 2 year absence, and Valladolid (the only club in Castile y Leon) is back after a 4 year absence. There are no clubs from Asturias (Oviedo, Gijon), Cantabria (Santander), Navarra (Osasuna), La Rioja (Logrones), Extremadura (Merida, Badajoz), La Mancha (Albacete, Guadelajara, or Murcia (Murcia) this season.
     
  2. slamminsammya

    slamminsammya Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,615
    Atletico supposedly signing Gelson Martins who was released from his contract at Sporting Clube de Portugal after their bizarre ultras fiasco. He's a beast in football manager!
     
  3. Vinho Tinto

    Vinho Tinto Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,339
    Sporting will file a lawsuit that will dispute the “release” of Gelson and Rui Patricio.
     
  4. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Thanks for starting this thread!

    It's pretty cool that there are four teams from the Basque Country in first division -- Athetic Bilbao, Eibar, Alaves, and Real Sociedad.

    Conversely, southern Spain is pretty light at the moment with our two teams -- Sevilla and Betis -- in first division.
     
  5. slamminsammya

    slamminsammya Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,615
    Don't forget Podence and Carvalho. Those players altogether were easily worth 70 million Euros in transfer fees, maybe more. What a disaster for Sporting. Carvalho signed with Betis, relevant to this thread.
     
  6. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Do we know what TV channel is carrying La Liga this year? Is it BEIN again?

    Last year, I used GO90 to watch games -- I think it was a Verizon thing? -- but it has since been discontinued.
     
  7. Domer

    Domer Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,333
    BeIN has LaLiga trough 2019-20. The channel is currently unavailable on Xfinity due to a carriage dispute.
     
  8. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Super Cup talk here?

    Costa with a brilliant goal in the first minute!
     
  9. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Thanks.
     
  10. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Atletico is doing Atletico-things: playing defensively, making me nervous with the defensive line quite close to Oblak, and waiting for the counter.

    I get it, I do. This strategy yields results, and this match is the first of the season. But I'm a little tired of playing so deferential against Real Madrid when Altetico's team is equal if not a bit better. Saul, Koke, Griezmann, Costa, and Lemar are really, really good.
     
  11. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Atletico has had a brilliant first part of the extra time!
     
  12. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Congrats Bosox. As for La Liga, I'm likely cutting the cord this week and getting SlingTV Orange and Blue Package plus Sports Add On. I'm debating between Roku and Firestick, but I will report back after I get started.
     
  13. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,226
  14. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
  15. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,741
    This Valladolid pitch is ridiculous. I'm surprised nobody snapped an ankle.

     
  16. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    I think one can point fingers at Valladolid, but I think this incident once again implicates La Liga as an inept organization. In addition, Rayo Vallecano, a team that recently went from 2nd Division to La Liga, cannot play home games for the next two months due to unsafe conditions at the stadium resulting from construction.

    Yes, these clubs need to do better, but La Liga could be a better partner and could help these smaller and poorer clubs navigate these complexities.
     
  17. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Three games into the season, and both Barcelona and Real Madrid look pretty good. I thought Real Madrid would have a bit more trouble as I think the team is worse this year, not simply because they lost Ronaldo but also because they didn't add anyone of importance this summer.

    Strangely, Valencia and Atletico, two teams projected to finish top four and maybe even fight for the title if things were to go well, find themselves struggling early on.
     
  18. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Villareal: Hold my cerveza.

    In other news, Celta got off to a good start (sorry @bosox4283). I'll be following Betis closely this year too after their successful campaign last season. I didn't realize that they got Lo Celso in a loan. They already took 3 points in the Sevillana derby.
     
  19. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Sevilla absolutely dominated Real Madrid yesterday, winning the match 3-0 with all three goals in the first half. Jesus Navas has resurrected his career while Marcelo sometimes looks like he's playing with cement in his shoes.

    I had doubts earlier this year about Real Madrid's depth, and I think this game shows that the team lacks explosive talent off the bench and/or Zidane was able the most out of his players. Against Sevilla, Real Madrid had on the bench: Vallejo (21, CB), Mariano (25, Striker), Lucas Vazquez (27, Winger), Marcos Llorente (23, Midfielder), Dani Ceballos (22, Midfielder), and Vinicius Junior (18, Forward).

    None of those players seem ready and able to contribute, especially against top teams.

    Vinicius Junior may be a future star, but he's only 18 and is playing mostly with the junior team. Mariano had a good season at Lyon but it's not clear if he can be an impact player at Real Madrid and in the biggest matches. Zidane trusted Vazquez while Lotepegui doesn't seem to like him so far. Ceballos could be great but has a long way to go.
     
  20. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Atletico and Real Madrid finished with zero-zero draw on Saturday. Atletico dominated the first half while Real Madrid looked much better than Atletico in the second half.

    Interestingly, Real Madrid improved when Gareth Bale went off with a minor injury (or precaution for a minor injury) and replaced with him midfielder Ceballos. Ceballos played well and his presence allowed Real Madrid to start winning the midfield and controlling the match.

    The same thing happened a few years ago when Bale's injury toward the end of the season opened up a spot for Isco in the starting-eleven. As a result, Real Madrid played a brilliant match against Atletico in the Champions League and won the title.

    So, does Bale really fit on this team? Does Bale offer enough to compensate for the ways Real Madrid has to adjust without him?
     
    #20 bosox4283, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  21. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Bale has some incredible attributes when it's all clicking, but his injuries and consistency have always kept him back IMO. For those same reasons, he is overrated to me.
     
  22. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    Good call on Bale: he has now been subbed off for two straight games -- or maybe two of the last three games -- with a mysterious injury or as a precautionary measure.
     
  23. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    With the talent on Real Madrid and Barcelona, they still have to be the favorites to outlast the other 18 teams for the La Liga title, but something is different this year. There's a lot of competition in the top 10 and there are many stronger teams. Sevilla is currently in first place with 16 points and Atletico tied for second with 15. Espanyol and Alaves are tied with Real Madrid at 14 points.

    I read somewhere that the increased revenue has permitted the mid-tier teams to improve their squads by signing better players and retaining their players. I also think Real Madrid, Barcelona, and (a bit less but to some extent) Atletico are going through changes as their cores have left or are aging and are working to incorporate younger talent.

    Hay liga!
     
    #23 bosox4283, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  24. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Friends and I were talking about the same thing recently. It's much better for the league and all the clubs (including the big 3). It's much better from an entertainment perspective to have a tighter table and the champion to have 70-80 points rather than 90+. Typically a 4-2 win is more entertaining than a 7-0. It will also showcase the fact that La Liga has an absurd amount of talent. People rightfully point out the depth of the EPL, but it is just different from the type of quality you see in the mid and low-table Spanish sides. Now that those clubs have more funds to compete, it has changed the complexion of the league for the better.
     
  25. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    There are five teams within three points of Barcelona, who sits atop the league 18 points. Those five teams include Espanyol, Alaves, and Valladolid. Real Madrid is 7th with 14 points.

    Messi is now out for three weeks and there are Real Madrid fans calling for Lotepegui's head. Meanwhile, Atletico cannot score goals.

    It's a fun, fun year so far.
     
  26. Vinho Tinto

    Vinho Tinto Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,339
    I’d call these fans the smart ones.
     
  27. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    One thing that I didn't mention in my previous post is that if low and mid-tier clubs can compete on slightly more even financial terms (not trying to overstate this, but $5M means a lot more to some clubs than others), then they will be less likely to park the bus and go out and attack bigger clubs. This is what I was getting at with the entertainment value aspect to the post.

    I'll post about the Barca-Sevilla match in the Barca thread and I look forward to reading about Real-Alaves in that thread :)
     
  28. Titans Bastard

    Titans Bastard has sunil gulati in his sights Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,976
  29. PedroSpecialK

    PedroSpecialK Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    23,177
    Lots of smoke around Lopetegui being out and Conte as his replacement, as soon as today
     
  30. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    That's a massive upgrade, but I don't know if enough is being said about Real's current squad. This is an aging core that was built to provide Ronaldo as many chances as possible to finish. Now that others have to do the finishing, the team is rudderless. Real should probably do a full fire sale and sell Marcelo, Modric, Kroos, Benz, and Bale. Perhaps Isco as well. They can and likely will need to bring in the next generation of Galacticos, headlined by some combination of Mbappe, Neymar, Hazard, Dybala, and some MANC players.
     
  31. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,174
    Agreed Real needs to revamp that squad and I think Zidane knew that and at some level Perez does too. That's a lot of pieces to sell and not sure they'd get a ton of value for them in a fire sale, at least not enough to get the headliners you mentioned.

    With the Conte hire, less likely Hazard will want to go to Madrid. I think Real has a legit shot at Neymar and/or Mbappe but I think they will need to get some midfielders. Which Man City players did you have in mind? KDB would be the obvious one but does City entertain selling him?
     
  32. teddykgb

    teddykgb Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,705
    I don’t think City would sell KDB and honestly don’t think he’d push for the move. Maybe when Pep leaves you’d have a chance at some of City’s biggest stars. There are rumors of Sterling to Madrid already, I could see that although they’ll regret that one. I’d bet Sane and Jesus could be tempted but I doubt City would sell
     
  33. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,174
    I love Sterling but I don't think he'd thrive in Madrid. He's got it great with Pep at City - if Pep leaves maybe he's tempted. Sane could be an excellent target for Madrid and maybe City is willing if the price is right? Especially if City can get a maybe cheaper replacement like Chucky Lozano.

    In general, I think Madrid is in a tougher spot in the past with buying Galacticos. Quite a few teams who have players they want and aren't willing to sell.
     
  34. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,741
    Madrid was designed to play in a particular way, in which everything offensive revolved around feeding Ronaldo, and now they're trying to figure out another way to play but without new injections of talent or a manager with any vision for how to move forward.

    I'd love to think they're going to struggle but they have a lot of core players still in their primes - really only Ramos, Modric, and Benzema are old among key players - and they can attract the biggest names in football to replenish their attacking talent. The big question mark for me is their financial condition: They haven't spent real money in the transfer market in forever and its unclear whether that's just being prudent or whether their complex debts and real estate/stadium boondoggles have actually held them back.

    Hazard and Mbappe clearly both want to go there eventually, maybe even next summer. Sell Bale/Benzema, add that pair, and then bring in a top level manager and they'll be right on top again.
     
  35. PedroSpecialK

    PedroSpecialK Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    23,177
    Terms not agreed with Conte supposedly, some say because of the players not wanting him - Santiago Solari from RM Castilla will likely be the appointment

     
  36. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Basically, I don't think you can keep KDB, Mahrez, Jesus, B. Silva, Sterling, and Sane all happy with minutes (not to mention that Aguero and D. Silva are still there this year, although MANC is just as likely to sell them elsewhere this summer). I don't think Sterling has the quality to play in Spain and he's more valuable to English clubs, so I think he's the first one out of the conversation and then it comes down to finding the right fit between the clubs.

    If I'm Real, my order of preference is as follows:

    1. Jesus, one of the best CF in the world and younger than...
    2. KDB. The best AMF in the world.
    3. Sane. I've seen a bit more of him than Silva and while he's had trouble consistently getting into and performing in the XI, I think the world of him as a player.
    4. Silva. A terrific player with likely his best years ahead.
    5. Mahrez. Still class, but not as pacey as Sane or as much potential as Silva.

    From MANC's perspective, I don't see them letting go of Jesus or KDB without a huge fight. I can't find release clauses for Sane, B. Silva, or Mahrez but I bet Real could get one of them in January. I see them getting a player of this caliber in January to start the rebuild, see what they have, and bide their time until they can land Mbappe, Ney, or some other superstar in the summer.

    As an aside, can people respond with how familiar they are with how the football transfer market works. Several users above indicate that a club "wont sell", which is really not an accurate way to describe how this works. As a very quick and dirty explanation, every player contract has 3 key provisions: 1) wages; 2) duration; and 3) a release clause. Numbers 1 and 2 are pretty self-explanatory, but are frequently renegotiated to keep desirable players happy. A release clause is a sum of money that an interested club (Club B) can trigger by offering to pay the club who owns the player's contract (Club A) to negotiate wages with the player. So, if for example, Jesus has a release clause of $150M, then if Real offers to trigger that release, they negotiate wages and contract duration with the player and if that is agreed upon, Citeh cannot stop the transfer. This is why high level player contracts have been renegotiated more frequently recently--clubs are raising the release clauses of players, usually in exchange for higher wages.
     
  37. teddykgb

    teddykgb Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,705
    You are too focused on the rules in Spain. English contracts do not have to have a buy out clause. Player power exists and a player can agitate for a move but it’s not like it is in Spain.

    When I say City will not sell I mean it. This is an exceptionally well run team with incredible revenue that is turning a profit on its business while having the money of an incredibly rich owner behind it. City are no longer struggling to comply with FFP and only need to sell in the scenario like Sterlings where a player has run down his contract and the team risks losing him on a free. City have been incredibly proactive about extending contracts, though. Sane is signed until 2021. KDB until 2022, Mahrez the same. Jesus the same. It will take world transfer records to get any player Like this from City.

    I’m entertaining this because this is my team and I can give you perspective on whom City might entertain the idea of selling. The path to getting one of these players is to have the player run down his contract and make a public show of wanting to leave. Then if it’s KDB they probably just sign him to a deal with better terms. If he insists on the move then you’re starting with Neymar money as the bottom of the transfer fee.

    If you really targeted Jesus and were willing to pay I think there’s a narrow opening there. I don’t think it would work well for the kid though as he’s really struggling right now and can’t be expected to turn a team such as Madrid around.
     
  38. Zomp

    Zomp Turkey Virgin Dope

    Messages:
    10,930
    He's (Jesus) also Brazillian and it his probably a lifelong dream of his to play for Real.

    The best thing that is happening with Real struggling is it may give other players pause about joining them right now. For the past 10 years or so, a move to Madrid would have been a step up for any player in the world except if you played for Barcelona. I don't think that is the case anymore. As United have shown, just because you have money doesn't automatically mean players will come to you. This will be doubly hard for Madrid because they want a particular player type. Anyone seen as a potential Galactico is probably already in a better situation than the one at Real.

    Give it time though. Asensio, Vinicious JR, etc... will all be superstars soon enough.
     
  39. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    I didn't mean anything pejoratively and hope it didn't come across that way. I had thought that release clauses were mandatory throughout UEFA (or at least the big 4-5 leagues). Mea culpa. It seems that you are correct about the players having less leverage in England. More reason to play in Spain if you're a player.

    Based on both posts, I'm surprised that Jesus is considered the best bet to move. But in any event, I bet Real looks at both Jesus and Mbappe and determines which one they prefer since either would cost upwards of $150M. Jesus has the potential advantage of coming in the January window, but IMO Mbappe is the better player.

    I also don't agree with the premise that Real is going to struggle getting the best players in. United's struggles haven't stopped them from getting Pogba and Lukaku and that's with Mourinho (I kid)! The biggest difference at Real is the incredibly low threshold for sacking and the even higher standards. Lopetegui has been sacked after ~14 matches. Benitez was even more well-established and lasted slightly longer, getting sacked in January. IOW, I don't think any Real manager would've survived United's results last season.
     
    #39 Zososoxfan, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  40. bosox4283

    bosox4283 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,716
    I find the Real Madrid team to be a bit of a mystery: there's plenty of talent but the team sort of underperforms, which is strange to say about a team that has won four of the past five Champions League titles.

    Consider last year that Real Madrid finished 3rd in La Liga, only three points ahead of 4th place Valencia. Then, in La Copa del Rey, Real Madrid lost to Leganes.

    Many of the team's key players are 30 years old or younger: Carvajal (26), Varane (25), Kroos (28), Bale (29), Marcelo (30), Casemiro (26), Lucas Vazquez (27), Isco (26), Nacho (28), Benzema (30), Dani Ceballos (22), Asensio (22).

    I think, that, though are few key pieces may be aging quickly -- Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Bale, and Marcelo -- while some of the younger players have not been as consistently good as they could be.

    I simply think Bale doesn't fit this team: he's too often injured and doesn't offer the consistent level of play the team needs.

    But, overall, this group should be consistently better than the results they're getting.
     
  41. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Really well put. If I had to put my finger on it, I'd say that the Kroos-Modric duo has had to do more work in attack now with Ronaldo gone and they just can't cope after a busy year (especially Modric). Couple that with the fact that Benz and Bale are a year older and those 2 + Isco + Asensio aren't finishing nearly as much as CR7 did, and the struggles make a bit more sense. Madrid has only conceded 2 more goals than Barca for example, but have scored 14 less. Marcelo is also a player that depends on his speed and endurance and Carvajal and Varane's injuries are a real problem. Zizou was glue and now it's falling apart.
     
  42. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,174
    AFAIK, release clauses are more tied to Spanish/other country labor laws than UEFA/FA laws intended as a way to give employees more power. This does not exist in England. Hazard would already be a Real Madrid player if players in England had that type of power.

    I don't think Madrid will struggle to get players because they are struggling. I think they may struggle to get megastars because the financial power of other clubs has grown and without release clauses, players will be hard pressed to be force a move. I think teddykgb nails it.
     
  43. biff_hardbody

    biff_hardbody lurker

    Messages:
    161
    I follow Real casually and my opinion is that the younger players, who oftentimes have come up within the system, especially attacking players like Vazquez, Isco, and Asensio, just aren't that good. They are decent players for La Liga but they are not players that are going to thrust Real into Champions League contention. These guys have come up for some time, Vazquez and Isco especially, and when I watch them I am consistently underwhelmed.
     
  44. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    You and @teddykgb may be right about this--Madrid may not be able to poach the best players in the world as easily as they once did. It also won't slow them down if they get their house in order.

    I had never thought about it this way, but the feeder system in Spain with the best players ending up at one of the big 3 clubs is somewhat institutionalized when taken in conjunction with the mandatory release clauses (as an aside, it puts Atleti's acquisition of non-Liga players in recent years in a different light--i.e. they're a big boy club). I'm sure Spanish clubs have wizened up to these facts by negotiating higher release clauses, but once a big club comes knocking many players will agitate for the move. This will likely keep Madrid from falling too far, since they can raid Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal, or more economically from lower clubs. That doesn't nab them the big dogs they want/need, but it will keep their D, MF, and rotation players flush.

    Moreover, I just don't see a way for clubs outside the top 10 in value to resist those sweet Madrid Pesos. I'm thinking of clubs that have world class talent that is only recently emerging and more importantly do not have astronomical wages like Dortmund, Roma, Inter, Napoli, Ajax, Leipzig, Monaco, Benfica, Porto, etc. Thinking of those clubs, players like Savic, Fekir, Insigne, de Ligt, et al. should be available to Madrid. Combine that with a couple of more lucrative transfers from clubs like Chelsea (See: Courtois), Spurs (See: Modric and Bale), and Bayern (See: Kroos), and you have your NextGen Real squad. Personally, I think they pull in more polished talent from their peer clubs than the ones a step below, but a sound transfer policy would strike a balance of the two.
     
  45. rguilmar

    rguilmar lurker

    Messages:
    148
    Overall I agree that Real Madrid cannot just go out and nab whoever they want from top teams. Both Madrid and Barca have used the secondary teams in La Liga as a feeder system for a while, Barcelona much more so recently. The big dogs in England are a different matter. That being said, they do have several advantages. Just off the top of my head (and please note that some of these are more perception than reality):

    Spending a winter season playing in Spain is a lot nicer than being in England.
    WAGS preferring winters in Spain
    Real Madrid is one of the few clubs that tons of kids literally dream of playing for (possibly the most desirable team to dream to play for)
    La Liga is less physical, so longer playing career
    Spain as a country is perceived to be more welcoming to outsiders than England (definitely more perception here)
    If success in Europe is the gauge for the best teams/league, La Liga wins out

    Obviously not all players will agree with all of the above, but I would bet most would agree with many of those listed items. So all things being equal in terms of income, would it really be surprising if Madrid poaches a few stars from top clubs?

    When Madrid or Barca come calling, I would put money on them getting their man. It won’t happen every time, but I’d wager more often than not they get the player that they want no matter what team they currently play for.
     
  46. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,174
    I'm a Barca fan and I agree with all of that but the difference now is that players seemingly have to force their way out + upcoming contract expiry otherwise it would be hard. Hazard is a prime example - he didn't want to force his way out even though he really wants to go. Top PL clubs would rather keep the player for the $ being offered - only a really upset player on the club changes that IMO.
     
  47. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,741
    I'm with rguilar. I think people are underestimating the ability of Barca and Real (especially) to attract players and overestimating the ability of wealthy but less desirable clubs to hold onto them.

    In the end, players have the real power in football. If they want to force a move, they can force a move and its mainly just a question of how far they're willing to go. Cristiano Ronaldo left Manchester United - the biggest, richest club in the world at that point - in 2009 despite having three years left on his contract and despite playing for a club that would not be outbid in terms of wages. Neymar left Barcelona when he wanted to leave Barcelona. To believe that Kylian Mbappe, Eden Hazard, or Gabriel Jesus couldn't move to another club if they want is wishful thinking. It may be a multiyear process, in which the player begins agitating for a move and then agrees to stay one more year in exchange for the club agreeing to let them choose their destination the following summer (this essentially happened with Suarez and Ronaldo and I think its probably happening with Hazard right now). But if you want to leave, you can leave.

    The big question with Real is whether they actually have the money to buy big players at market prices.
     
    #47 Morgan's Magic Snowplow, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  48. coremiller

    coremiller Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,533
    Yup. Their failure to spend money this summer was downright bizarre. I could see a strategy the past couple of years of valuing stability with their core, but they sold their best player for huge money and just pocketed the funds without trying to replace him. Compare Real's behavior last summer to what Barcelona did when Neymar left, and Neymar was much less integral to the Barca set-up than Ronaldo was to Madrid's: Barca immediately threw huge money at Dembele and Coutinho.

    Something weird is going on behind the scenes there.
     
  49. wonderland

    wonderland lurker

    Messages:
    238
    I saw it as kind of a bridge year. Let’s see what Bale can do in the lead role. Let’s see what some of the young vets can do with more responsibility. Then buy from there.
     
  50. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Thought this thread could use a bump considering Real's 3-0 defeat to Mighty Eibar and Barca-Atleti's hard fought draw. Atleti played their perfect match, and only some inspired play by Dembele of all players rescued a point for the Catalans. For whatever reason, Dembele has the ball pop up on him a lot and it causes him to lose control and possession frequently. But on Saturday, the ball was stuck to the pitch and his speed, quickness, and skill were allowed to shine. It made a huge difference.

    Sevilla - 26 pts, +11 GD
    Barca - 25, +16
    Atleti - 24, +8
    Alaves - 23, +4
    Espanyol - 21, +4
    Madrid - 20, +1
    Girona - 20, +1

    11 clubs have a positive GD. Hay Liga! This is going to be a blast of a season. There is much more parity than years past and it's making every matchweek unpredictable and exciting.
     

Share This Page