Heard he's been trying hard to move Bass and his expiring contract to no avail.wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Kevin Love News and Rumors
- Thread starter Reardon's Beard
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HomeRunBaker said:
I would hope that would be do-able towards the deadline when some teams realize they are out of contention and want to clear some space or a contending team needs a big. I cant see anyone really wanting Bass at the moment.
Statman said:NBA Store Discontinues Wiggins Cavaliers Jerseys.....
http://dimemag.com/2014/08/nba-store-discontinues-wiggins-cavaliers-jerseys/
This could be the Atlanta Falcons Favre jersey for basketball. Collectors item
HomeRunBaker said:
I would be SHOCKED if Philly is the one giving up that pick. A couple of seconds to help maybe as they ahve so many, a high 1st? No chance.
Bennett is a lot more useful for the Sixers than Young, esp if Bennett is better this year, which he looked in summer leagues by most reports but eh summer league. But not a 1st round pick more IMO.
I assume Philly will be eating some salary somewhere vs giving up a pick, because they ahve salary space and were in on several cap space for pick deals that fell through (Lin and I forget the other).
I'm with London - I'd eat my hat if Philly gave up their own first round pick to acquire Anthony Bennett.
I understand there's recently been some pushback on the Bennett-bust train, but apart from going #1, there's not too much to recommend him. He was the #1 pick in a draft that was considered the worst in a long time, and if anything, has underperformed. Further, he wasn't even the consensus #1 guy (he ranked ranked 8th in the Draftexpress mock for instance). He ranked 22nd on one projection system, translating his stats to the NBA. And then there's the fact that he put in the worst rookie season by a top pick I've ever seen (he had a negative WS/48, ranking 442nd out of 482 NBA players last year). Yes, a lot of rookies struggle, and yes he had some physical problems, but the sheer degree of awfulness is hard to overstate.
Nobody can be declared a bust after one year, but I feel like there's been a bit too much pushback there. He looked like a reach when he drafted in a terrible draft, and played like it. I can't imagine Philly giving up much for him.
I understand there's recently been some pushback on the Bennett-bust train, but apart from going #1, there's not too much to recommend him. He was the #1 pick in a draft that was considered the worst in a long time, and if anything, has underperformed. Further, he wasn't even the consensus #1 guy (he ranked ranked 8th in the Draftexpress mock for instance). He ranked 22nd on one projection system, translating his stats to the NBA. And then there's the fact that he put in the worst rookie season by a top pick I've ever seen (he had a negative WS/48, ranking 442nd out of 482 NBA players last year). Yes, a lot of rookies struggle, and yes he had some physical problems, but the sheer degree of awfulness is hard to overstate.
Nobody can be declared a bust after one year, but I feel like there's been a bit too much pushback there. He looked like a reach when he drafted in a terrible draft, and played like it. I can't imagine Philly giving up much for him.
Yeah, it's hard to imagine that enough of his suckage last year was attributable to being overweight to make any weight loss a real factor in his becoming a halfway decent player. I think he has long odds towards ever putting up a season as good as Thaddeus Young's worst.
The one thing that Bennett has going for him unlike guys like Julius Randle is that he can at least shoot. With Randle, Z-Bo, Marcus Fizer, etc. those guys have to be go-to scorers to be worth having around. Bennett will probably have at least a decent career as a backup power forward who can hit corner threes and grab defensive rebounds. He is, ironically, a player in the mold of Kevin Love. Just way, way worse.
Are we sure Bennett can shoot? I mean in a game -- even Rondo can bury 20-footers consistently in shootaround.
I lean toward bowiac's view, because there doesn't appear to be any precedent for a player as bad as Bennett was last year becoming something more than a back-end rotation player (and Bennett needs to improve significantly just to be that). On the other hand, there aren't a lot of relevant parallels, and the ones that do exist have potentially confounding variables (Olowokandi was three years older, Kwame Brown supposedly had an attitude problem, Etc.).
I lean toward bowiac's view, because there doesn't appear to be any precedent for a player as bad as Bennett was last year becoming something more than a back-end rotation player (and Bennett needs to improve significantly just to be that). On the other hand, there aren't a lot of relevant parallels, and the ones that do exist have potentially confounding variables (Olowokandi was three years older, Kwame Brown supposedly had an attitude problem, Etc.).
maufman said:
He did in college. His college 3 point % was probably too high (37.5%) to be sustainable, but he still shot pretty well from just about everywhere on the court at UNLV.
maufman said:
Well, I don't entirely disagree with that. My point is that I think he will stick in the league as a backup power forward and won't be exiled to Israel and Puerto Rico like Marcus Fizer.
According to Woj the terms of the Love trade have been finalized: Wiggins, Bennett and a protected 2015 first rounder for Love. Love has also committed to resign with Cleveland on a 5 year $120M deal.
Works on the RealGM trade checker (after 8/23).
Works on the RealGM trade checker (after 8/23).
Don't the Celtics already own Cleveland's 2016 first-round pick? Did they pick up another one somewhere else?Brickowski said:
I'm not so high on Wiggins or Bennett, plus the pick is a year away and protected. Nor did Flip dump any of his unwanted salaries. I don't see this as the best result for MN at all.
If Wiggins turns out to be the next Kobe, it's a good deal for MN. But I'll be surprised if that happens.
It's a very good deal for Cleveland, although IMHO as presently constructed they will have difficulty winning a championship unless Varejao stays healthy.
If Wiggins turns out to be the next Kobe, it's a good deal for MN. But I'll be surprised if that happens.
It's a very good deal for Cleveland, although IMHO as presently constructed they will have difficulty winning a championship unless Varejao stays healthy.
What would the "best result" for MN have been, then? They can only take the best offer on the table.
They got a nice haul, IMO, for one year of Kevin Love. From a franchise standpoint, it's a chance to at least start fresh and keep fans interested with marketable young talent. Granted, if they find themselves at the bottom of the standings in 3 years, then it's all for naught, but that likely would have happened had they kept Love, anyway.
They got a nice haul, IMO, for one year of Kevin Love. From a franchise standpoint, it's a chance to at least start fresh and keep fans interested with marketable young talent. Granted, if they find themselves at the bottom of the standings in 3 years, then it's all for naught, but that likely would have happened had they kept Love, anyway.
MN backed themselves into this when they inked Love to his current deal. Given bad cards to play, Flip has done about as well as possible here. IMO, getting Wiggins was his smartest play and main objective. Wiggins has to become an All Star for this to work out well for the Wolves, but he's a better bet (higher ceiling) than Klay Thompson. Better than taking CHI's package.
Obvious match/obvious deal -- I think both played it right and have agreed to the inevitable. Was looking forward to seeing Wiggins with LeBron, but equally the Love-LBJ combo should be a lot of fun to watch develop, too.
I agree there's an awful lot riding on Varejao staying healthy, which doesn't seem likely. But should be a fun team -- if Waiters sticks with the Cavs am guessing he's going to get yelled at one helluva lot by LeBron.
I agree there's an awful lot riding on Varejao staying healthy, which doesn't seem likely. But should be a fun team -- if Waiters sticks with the Cavs am guessing he's going to get yelled at one helluva lot by LeBron.
Without digging it out again this is a lot less than the KG haul right? Wiggins was centerpiece of this one and Al Jeff was the centerpiece of that one. Big Al was already on the cusp of stardom & still very young, plus the Cs packaged several other young prospects.
I agree MN had to take best offer available but just curious b/c it was a very similar situation.
Also, MN epically squandered the KG haul. For their sake I hope they manage these assets better.
I agree MN had to take best offer available but just curious b/c it was a very similar situation.
Also, MN epically squandered the KG haul. For their sake I hope they manage these assets better.
Not all consensus #1 picks are created equal. Being the consensus #1 in a year when a polished, athletic talent like Jabari Parker is also available is high praise. Wiggins is arguably the highest upside talent to enter the league since Derrick Rose.
Wiggins is raw, so the Wolves will suck this season, and perhaps next season too, but make no mistake -- Flip has pulled a major coup.
Wiggins is raw, so the Wolves will suck this season, and perhaps next season too, but make no mistake -- Flip has pulled a major coup.
It's not Cleveland's pick (which Chicago owns). The Cavs own protected 2015 first rounders from Memphis and Miami.
Brickowski said:
Chicago only owns swap rights. Regardless, it can't be Cleveland's pick because the Celtics own their 2016 pick, so the Stepien Rule forbids them from trading their 2015 pick.
The Cavs still have a 1st round pick and Haywood's contract to acquire a rim protector. At that point you are looking at a pretty stacked roster.
Irving, Delladova, Waiters, Mike Miller, Marion, K. Love, Thompson, Rim protector X, Varejao, and the best player in the world.
Irving, Delladova, Waiters, Mike Miller, Marion, K. Love, Thompson, Rim protector X, Varejao, and the best player in the world.
Basketball was only a peripheral interest for me at the time, so I don't recall, but it seems like Jefferson was much more analogous to Klay Thompson. A good, young player, but one about to get paid, and probably pretty close to his upside. Consensus most places is that Wiggins is a better piece than Thompson, so I think the same would go for Wiggins vs. Jefferson.ALiveH said:
I do wonder if it's true that Wiggins is an above average #1 pick. He seems about average to me, not as good as Davis, Rose or Oden, but better than Kyrie, Bennett or Bargnani. Similar to Wall or Griffin.
IMHO Boston's rumored offer, which included Sullinger, THREE unprotected first rounders and maybe an additional player or two (Olynyk, Smart, Young?), plus the ability to include Bogans' non-guaranteed deal and take back unwanted salary from the Wolves, was overall a better package for a rebuilding team-- unless you really think Wiggins is the next Kobe. I don't. My view of him is pretty much the same as Bowiac's, except that he will take longer to develop than Wall or Griffin, both of whom had NBA bodies when drafted.Stitch01 said:
Of course, what Ainge was rumored to be offering and what he actually offered may be two different things.
Wiggins is the only asset that the Wolves could have realistically got that has the potential to single-handidly make the franchise a consistent title contender. He could become a special two-way wing player like Kobe, Wade, McGrady, or Durant. Such talent would win a lot of games on their own and make it more likely to sign complementary pieces. Granted, the probability of that happening is fairly low, but Wiggins does have that upside. Not only does Wiggins have an elite ceiling, his floor and his median outcome career paths are also pretty valuable.
Put it this way: Minnesota's odds of winning an NBA title in the next 10 years was around 0% before this trade and would stay at ~0% with any trade package they could have got. Wiggins at least moves those odds a little.
Put it this way: Minnesota's odds of winning an NBA title in the next 10 years was around 0% before this trade and would stay at ~0% with any trade package they could have got. Wiggins at least moves those odds a little.
Brickowski said:
The problem with the Celtics assets (for both this team and in a potential trade) is that none of them are likely to be stars. To use Bill Simmons' phrasing, four quarters doesn't equal one dollar in the NBA. Wiggins is a player Minnesota can build around. He likely won't be a Kevin Durant level player, but he will probably be as good as Russell Westbrook.
That's pure speculation. I watched Wiggins 4-5 times last year, and I kept asking myself, "Where's the beef?"moly99 said:
It's hard to say where the Nets picks will fall. But yes, with Love the Celtics would probably be a 7-8 seed in the EC and their picks would be in the late teens. Plus Sullinger has proved that he can put up consistent double doubles in the NBA and would fill some of the rebounding void left by Love's departure. He's a known quantity and an improving player (who would have been a top 5 pick had he come out as a Freshman). But hey, I was never in favor of trading for Love, so I'm glad Flip sees it differently.drleather2001 said:
Wiggins is a huge gamble for the Wolves. IMHO He's closer to the 19 year-old Gerald Green right now than he is to the 19 year-old Kobe.
If you watched him 4-5 times yet persist on thinking Kobe is a viable comp, you may want to re-think your evaluation. Completely different player. Wiggins will never play a minute at shooting guard, though he will defend SGs when called on.
Well, I use "Kobe" as shorthand for level of stardom. Yes, Wiggins is a very different player, although at 195 lbs I don't see him mixing it up in the frontcourt any time soon.
He's 19. He'll fill out a bit. His listed weight was 200 at Summer League.
I see his ceiling as a Grant Hill with a better outside shot, more hops and, ideally, intact ankles. Or I guess Scottie Pippen with worse defense and better shooting.
I don't see him as a 25+ ppg constant go-to scorer, more of a 20-25 ppg, all around player.
If his ball handling comes along he could be a good fit for the triangle, but even now, just getting up and down the court with a guy like Rubio will be fun to watch
I see his ceiling as a Grant Hill with a better outside shot, more hops and, ideally, intact ankles. Or I guess Scottie Pippen with worse defense and better shooting.
I don't see him as a 25+ ppg constant go-to scorer, more of a 20-25 ppg, all around player.
If his ball handling comes along he could be a good fit for the triangle, but even now, just getting up and down the court with a guy like Rubio will be fun to watch
So unless Wiggins turns out a Kobe-like level of stardom, trading one year of Kevin Love for him+ wasn't a good deal for the Wolves. Okay.Brickowski said:
I think your take on this is spot on except for one thing. Aside from Wiggins, nothing about the TWolves including Rubio will be fun to watch. They just went from bad to putrid for next season.Infield Infidel said:
Ha. As a person who hasn't watched a T-Wolves game in its entirety since the KG era, I'm looking forward to the highlights, not the games.
Looking at Grant Hill's stats, it's eye opening how much his game fit the previous era. In his first five seasons, he took 121 total threes and made only 18%. He didn't even make a three in the lockout season. A wing superstar having almost no impact from 3 seems anachronistic. Even Wade took around one 3 per game in his early years. In Hill's sixth year, he was 34-98 from 3; he may have added it as a weapon if his ankle didn't give out. If Wiggins gives Minnesota one season as good as Hill's 96-97, the Wolves could feel good about the trade.Infield Infidel said:
Are you implying that Wiggins won't have an impact from behind the NBA arc? He has excellent form even from NBA range, a quick release, and shot a competent 34% as a 19-yr old. He projects to be a good to very good 3-point shooter so I'm not sure how Grant Hill's lack of these skills are even relevant.mandro ramtinez said:
I wasn't commenting on Wiggins potential from 3. It was just a digression on how little impact Hill had from 3 when he was at his healthy peak and how it would be tough to be an All-NBA wing in today's league while not at least attempting a 3 per game. I should have made that more clear.HomeRunBaker said:
DannyDarwinism said:
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he's saying that unless Wiggins turns into an all-star caliber player, they took the wrong deal. I think they have to take the Wiggins deal myself, but I can see an argument that Boston's was at least very competitive. Wiggins vs. Smart/Sullinger/3 first round picks with potential to be lottery isn't exactly a slam dunk. If Wiggins doesn't turn into a superstar, Boston's deal was probably better.