Joe Kelly and his new slider

The Gray Eagle

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So Kelly's got a different way that he delivers his slider. Unlike a lot of spring training talk, where pitchers make adjustments that haven't been tried out in games yet, so no one knows whether they might actually work or not, Kelly used his new slider in the playoffs last year, and had great success with it in obviously a very small sample.

He says he came up with the adjustment right before game 1 of the playoffs.

“In the playoffs, it was all sliders. I kind of tweaked the sliders with (assistant pitching coach) Brian Bannister I think the first day in Cleveland. We held the same grip, but did something with my wrist, the way I cocked it a little bit different and I played catch with them warming up before batting practice for about 10 minutes. I liked how it spun, and he liked how it spun and how it went straight down and disappeared, kind of like a Chris Archer-type slider. I got into the game and I shocked to it because I wanted to test it out and got a good swing and miss on it. So I was like, ‘OK, I’m going to keep throwing it.’ There was one point probably in my third appearance in the playoffs where 10 of my 13 pitches I threw were all sliders. I didn’t want to throw it that much but I kind of fell in love with it because it was generating so many swings and misses and so many foul balls and weak contact. It was something I learned probably 10 minutes before Game 1. I was like, ‘You know what, why not?’ That is kind of my personality. If I see something I see works, or I think will work, it’s something I’m going to try.


Seems like something to watch this year, and see how hitters handle it after they have more video of it and it's included in their scouting.

"(Kelly) had accomplished the month-long success thanks to better command of a 100 mph fastball, and a revamped curveball that came from the same arm slot as his heater. But now he has his new slider, which maxes out his repertoire heading into the new season.

“One hundred percent,” said Kelly when asked if those were the three pitches he would be leaning on from Day 1 in 2017. “That’s what my game-plan is, trying to simplify pitching for this season.”
 

luckysox

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Boy, he could really be a special reliever if he can stay consistent with control of the fastball. Everything he does will come from that.
 

mfried

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I've always thought he had big-time promise. I still think this 3-pitch menu gives him starter qualifications, but I guess with the addition of Sale, and the loss of Uehara, Ziegler and Taz, we need him more in the bullpen. Fastball command indeed!
 

NickEsasky

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Granted it worked, but it seems strange to be testing out a new pitch during playoff games.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Granted it worked, but it seems strange to be testing out a new pitch during playoff games.
Especially when you had been utterly dominant in your previous 17-plus innings, going all the way back to July. Say what you like about our boy Joe, but don't call him cautious.

BTW, Brooks confirms the story. His slider in October is obviously quite different than before: about 3 mph faster, with nearly zero glove-side break and a big reduction in downward movement. That last bit might seem to contradict the "went straight down and disappeared" part of Kelly's account, but maybe the extra velocity is making the vertical movement "tell" more even though it's measuring as smaller. Or maybe the different spin is making the pitch harder to identify until it's too late. Or both.

EDIT: Oh, and possibly the biggest takeaway about the new slider from Brooks can be seen in this graph--which might even have implications for decisions about bullpen vs. rotation use, though I hope not, because I think they should be in "if it ain't broke" mode with Kelly now and grooming him for closer.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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BTW, Brooks confirms the story. His slider in October is obviously quite different than before: about 3 mph faster, with nearly zero glove-side break and a big reduction in downward movement. That last bit might seem to contradict the "went straight down and disappeared" part of Kelly's account, but maybe the extra velocity is making the vertical movement "tell" more even though it's measuring as smaller. Or maybe the different spin is making the pitch harder to identify until it's too late. Or both.
According to this chart - http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=523260&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=pfx_x&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=01/06/2017 - the new slider had greatly reduced horizontal break so I'm sure it does appear to Kelly as if it goes straight down.
 

iayork

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He's right, his slider was different in the post-season. It looks to me as if it's more fastball-like than during the regular season.

This is a super quick glance without even correcting the mis-categorized pitches from PITCHf/x, but you can see that in the post-season his sliders were generally faster, with less horizontal movement, and with "rise" rather than "drop" (both relative to the path the pitch would follow according to gravity alone).

JK_Sliders.png
 

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drbretto

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If you have yourself this great new tool, what sense does it make to announce it to the rest of baseball?

I'm sure people would catch on soon enough, but by announcing it, you're just basically sending out a bulletin to everyone to update their entry on Kelly. If you don't broadcast it, you can catch some people off-guard.
 

dhappy42

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If you have yourself this great new tool, what sense does it make to announce it to the rest of baseball?

I'm sure people would catch on soon enough, but by announcing it, you're just basically sending out a bulletin to everyone to update their entry on Kelly. If you don't broadcast it, you can catch some people off-guard.
I was thinking the same thing, but on the other hand, he'll be throwing the pitch in spring training, so it won't be a secret on opening day anyway. And maybe there's some psych out value letting batters know he's got a nasty new pitch they have to worry about.
 

joe dokes

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FWIW soxprospects has Kelly projected to be a PawSox starter. I like him in the Boston pen.
I would be very very surprised if DD and JF dont currently and exclusively think of Kelly as an important leverage option out of the pen.
 

Lowrielicious

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Kimbrel, Thornburg, Kelly and Carson Smith hopefully back around mid-year.

Plenty could go wrong but if things break the right way that could be a killer bullpen to go with a rotation to match.
 

Rasputin

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Kimbrel, Thornburg, Kelly and Carson Smith hopefully back around mid-year.

Plenty could go wrong but if things break the right way that could be a killer bullpen to go with a rotation to match.
Add a high powered offense, great outfield defense,pretty good all around infield defense, this team has just about every weapon it needs.

Stay healthy. Get a break or two. See you in October.
 

twibnotes

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Interesting that it was Bannister, not Willis, who helped him come up with the new slider.

Given that Willis has earned some scrutiny around here, it will be interesting to see over time how Bannister (in an expanded role since July) contributes to the staff's success.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Interesting that it was Bannister, not Willis, who helped him come up with the new slider.

Given that Willis has earned some scrutiny around here, it will be interesting to see over time how Bannister (in an expanded role since July) contributes to the staff's success.
It might be more a matter of seeing if what he has already contributed has staying power. The Sox' pitching was unmistakably improved in the second half last year:

1st half: FIP- 101, HR/9 1.21, BB/9 3.26
2nd half: FIP- 89, HR/9 0.97, BB/9 2.83

And this mostly took the form of several individual pitchers with talent but command/consistency issues having dramatic second-half turnarounds: e.g. Buchholz, EdRo, Kelly. Of course we can't say for sure how big a role Bannister played in this, but the chronological correlation is suggestive.
 

Plympton91

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FWIW soxprospects has Kelly projected to be a PawSox starter. I like him in the Boston pen.
That's consistent with other SoxProspects views, which seem as if the people running the site would rather win the International League than the American League.
 

the moops

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It is mostly a playoff thing, but once he was traded to Cleveland last year, he did pitch a little bit differently. 8 of his 26 appearances were for more than an inning. Only went 2 full innings in three times, but he was used over multiple innings more so than in NY.
 

Al Zarilla

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It is mostly a playoff thing, but once he was traded to Cleveland last year, he did pitch a little bit differently. 8 of his 26 appearances were for more than an inning. Only went 2 full innings in three times, but he was used over multiple innings more so than in NY.
Yankees had that 3 headed monster, Cleveland just 2.