Jimmy G is Staying Put in San Fran...
- Thread starter brandonchristensen
- Start date
Jimmy got paid a lot and he doesn't have an extensive track record. But I doubt that many Niners fans are going to be anything but thrilled that their team signed this guy to a 5-year deal. Given all their cap room and the potential Jimmy has shown, I'd be extremely pleased if I rooted for that team.
I do like the fact that Tom's annual number is materially lower that he thereby facilitates BB being able to spread the money around the roster and a deeper roster. But even with the very small sample, Jimmy looks like the real deal to me and I'd suffer some loss of flexibility to lock him up.
It would have been nice if there had been a sensible way to keep him in NE but I'm one Pats fan who will not find his success, assuming he has it and assuming it is not against the Pats, to be hard to take. Here's to this kid earning every dollar.
I do like the fact that Tom's annual number is materially lower that he thereby facilitates BB being able to spread the money around the roster and a deeper roster. But even with the very small sample, Jimmy looks like the real deal to me and I'd suffer some loss of flexibility to lock him up.
It would have been nice if there had been a sensible way to keep him in NE but I'm one Pats fan who will not find his success, assuming he has it and assuming it is not against the Pats, to be hard to take. Here's to this kid earning every dollar.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
When 49ers' QB Jimmy Garoppolo's 5-year deal gets finalized shortly, it will include the largest three-year cash total for a new contract in NFL history, just shy of $90 million, per source.
When 49ers' QB Jimmy Garoppolo's 5-year deal gets finalized shortly, it will include the largest three-year cash total for a new contract in NFL history, just shy of $90 million, per source.
They certainly overpaid on those accomplishments. They have the money, though, but it's still way too much for such an unproven player.
This is awesome. When Flacco was completely overpaid for a historic run to the Super Bowl, it was widely ridiculed. Rightfully so.
But Jimmy G gets one of the biggest deals in the history of football despite having a half a season of NFL experience, and it's great?
Could be. My point being, holy hell Jimmy G is still not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination. I know scouting would tell the differences, but damn me he could well be a right-handed Scott Mitchell.
The team did look dramatically different with him at the helm, and that's a major point in his favor and it's real, just as it was for Brady in 2001. But to me this deal looks like there's a decent amount of risk involved.
Fair reaction. But the salary cap is bigger now and SF has a lot of room. Nick Foles aside, it's hard to win in the NFL without an elite QB, and JG looks to have at least that potential. One could say the same about Joe Flacco but that's not how I ever viewed him. Still, I get your point and Jimmy is indeed clearly an inexperienced guy getting a fat check. As a SF fan, I would be fine with my team taking that chance, but I know reasonable minds could differ.
San Francisco had the room, at least for now they do. Is it an overpay? Likely, but the cap keeps going up. He was very good in his time in San Francisco. If he becomes and elite QB, Niners are good to go, if he doesn’t that’s another matter. Monster pressure is now on
This comparison makes no sense. Bledsoe was hurt and they needed someone to step in and play. Tom Brady just came off an MVP season and had one of the best playoff runs ever. At the halfway point, when the trade was made, he was his usual dominant self. Plus all the salary cap implications.
But this is all irrelevant to Jimmy’s trade value, which was my point to begin with. And the entire “showed zero signs of what transpired in SF (you mean NE?) was a fluke.” I mean sure, but that’s my point. At the time he was dealt, he didn’t have an extra 5 games under his belt, so his value was limited.
Big whoop, we’re stuck with Tom Brady, the greatest QB—and likely human being—ever.
Last edited:
Remember when everyone here made fun of Colts fans for suddenly becoming Broncos fans when Manning switched teams?
It's almost like some folks here are staging their exit in 2 years by hitching their wagon to Jimmy G.
You mean like the MVP season he just had and the insanely great super bowl? Jimmy is absolutely no lock and Brady is and has been his own standard.
Huge amount of risk, I totally agree. However, I'm a bigger fan of taking this risk compared to Darnold, Rosen or Allen. None of those guys really jump out at me the way that Luck did and I think there's a good chance JG ends up being better than them. The young kids would cost less, but I feel like you're stuck with them for about the same amount of time due to the draft pick investment.
I'm sure the second the Pats agreed to the deal they were high fiveing in Santa Clara. Teams take stabs at unproven college QBs in the first round every year. They got a potential franchise QB for a second round pick. Good for them.
Meh, Boston fans did it first when Bourque was traded to Colorado. We have no leg to stand on.
Edit: Fuck, he even got a parade in Government Center.
Sure, it was a good risk on their part, no doubt about it, and it still is exactly that, but that doesn’t mean it was some God-awful worst ever trade because the Pats chose to keep Tom Brady, who’s proven GOAT and still playing like a major boss.
But we’ve had this debate a million times. It’s over. Are we going to bring it up every time Jimmy completes a pass?
Fair point! That's why I trust Belichick (and Lynch) way more than myself haha. I would have talked myself into one of the kids too.
Everyone looking at this as an overpay -- and it might be -- needs to realize this is also the reason NE only got a 2nd rounder for him. He was a free agent and was getting paid this offseason no matter what. He just upped his rate by winning every game he played, most of which were in dramatic fashion.
If he turns into a hall of famer, sure.
If he ends up a perennial above-average, #5-to-#10 in the league QB, I won't be pissed. Nobody but Tom Brady was willing us to within an asshair of a championship last weekend. And more to the point, at full market value, Jimmy GQ would have to be a hall of famer to have been worth chucking aside Tom's surplus value, because he's going to be paid every dime he's worth going forward. As we now see.
It shows you how a franchise QB can quickly turn an organization around. I don't yet know if JG IS a franchise QB, but so far he looks every bit the part (SSS, I know). They have a ton of money still, and obviously ended the season playing well. I can see why Vegas is high on SF for 2018.
Personally, I'm gonna root hard for him and that team. I'd love to see Brady and JG be the top 2 QBs in the NFL for the next few years.
Personally, I'm gonna root hard for him and that team. I'd love to see Brady and JG be the top 2 QBs in the NFL for the next few years.
Nick Foles, Blake Bortles, and Case Keenum started championship games this season. Granted, Bortles and Keenum didn't win the Super Bowl, but it's not like you can't have success without paying a QB 30 million dollars a year.
San Francisco was surprisingly competitive in a lot of games even before JG took over. He obviously helped turn close losses into wins, but in their first 6 losses, they had a lot of 2 or 3 point shortcomings against solid teams like the Seahawks, Rams and Redskins.
Correct.
People hate the real world. I get it, but it makes them crazy.
What’s the alternative here?
Franchise him? Ok, that would be $23.5 million. And if he’s at all good, you’re looking at franchising him again, which I believe carries a 20% bump, another $28 approximately for 2019. So you’re already at $51.5 and only 2 years in. The total guarantee under this deal is reported at $74 — for 5 years.
Draft a QB? Somebody say that, pretty please. Who exactly? Darnold and Rosen will be long gone by the time they pick, but even if they weren’t, neither is a lock — or a Luck — or even close to it. And Trubisky, drafted second last year, got $29 million — all of it guaranteed. And this route, of course, costs you your 1st round pick — plus any other picks you might have to use to get Darnold or Rosen, both expected to be gone by pick 4 — and history has shown those are extortionate trades for teams seeking to move up even a few spots.
Or but they should have bargained hard! Really? He’s not a bad bargainer. He turned down a reported $17 to 18 from the Pats, effectively dared the team to franchise him, and effectively won his freedom to a prize destination. Not a bad bargainer. What’s the deal you’re going to force down his throat when he has the franchise tag as a weapon rather than a curse?
Only one of them was. But that was evened out by a ball he threw into double coverage that his receiver straight up stole.
This is a great point. They really could have won that first Rams game.
And the second Rams (game) was against backups.
The 49ers were never as bad as there 1-10 record and not as good as there 5 game winning streak.
I think they are what their final record said 6-10. I am hoping for 9-7 next year and maybe WC by 2019.
The parameters of this deal help to explain to the variety of "casual Pats fans" - I met a handful at the superbowl party I went to, living here in SF - the financial reality of why they couldn't keep JG and TB. (As soon as you talk about franchise tags and salary caps, their eyes would glaze over anyway...)
I've said for a while now that one of the biggest reasons for the Patriots' long-term success is Tom Brady. Not just Tom Brady the player, but Tom Brady the contract. He is worth far more than what his contract actually pays him. According to this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/01/highest-paid-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl.html ... Brady is the 15th highest paid QB in the league over the 2017-2018 seasons. Ahead of him:
Rank. Name (Avg 2-year salary)
1. Stafford ($27m)
2. DCarr ($25m)
3. Luck ($24.6m)
4. Palmer ($24.4m)
5. Brees ($24.3m)
6. Cousins ($23.9m)
7. Flacco ($22.1m)
8. Rodgers ($22.0m)
9. Wilson ($21.9m)
10. Roethlisberger ($21.9m)
11. Eli ($21.0m)
12. Rivers ($20.8m)
13. Newton ($20.8m)
14. Ryan ($20.8m)
15. Brady ($20.5m)
So let's not say Brady needs to be #1. Let's say he ought to be, I dunno, at the $24m range - between Brees and Cousins. That $3.5 million they save on Brady is more than the Patriots pay Andrews ($3m/yr), Chung ($2.7m/yr), Brown ($1.9m), Develin ($1.2m), Rowe ($1.2m), Thuney ($800k), T Flowers ($709k/yr), etc. The point is that the money they save on Brady being below market can be used to bolster the roster elsewhere. Over the years, that's added up to a lot of talent they've been able to keep instead of lose because of a higher Brady salary.
True dat. Odds equal to or very close to the Falcons, Panthers, Cowboys, Texans, Jaguars, Rams, Saints and Seahawks. FWIW this site.
Arizona Cardinals +$5,000 (50 to 1)
Atlanta Falcons +$2,000 (20 to 1)
Baltimore Ravens +$5,000 (50 to 1)
Buffalo Bills +$10,000 (100 to 1)
Carolina Panthers +$2,500 (25 to 1)
Chicago Bears +$15,000 (150 to 1)
Cincinnati Bengals +$12,500 (125 to 1)
Cleveland Browns +$15,000 (150 to 1)
Dallas Cowboys +$2,000 (20 to 1)
Denver Broncos +$4,000 (40 to 1)
Detroit Lions +$5,000 (50 to 1)
Green Bay Packers +$1,200 (12 to 1)
Houston Texans +$2,000 (20 to 1)
Indianapolis Colts +$4,000 (40 to 1)
Jacksonville Jaguars +$2,500 (25 to 1)
Kansas City Chiefs +$3,000 (30 to 1)
Los Angeles Chargers +$4,000 (40 to 1)
Los Angeles Rams +$2,000 (20 to 1)
Miami Dolphins +$7,500 (75 to 1)
Minnesota Vikings +$1,200 (12 to 1)
New England Patriots +$600 (6 to 1)
New Orleans Saints +$2,000 (20 to 1)
New York Giants +$7,500 (75 to 1)
New York Jets +$15,000 (150 to 1)
Oakland Raiders +$3,000 (30 to 1)
Philadelphia Eagles +$1,200 (12 to 1)
Pittsburgh Steelers +$1000 (10 to 1)
San Francisco 49ers +$2,500 (25 to 1)
Seattle Seahawks +$2,500 (25 to 1)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers +$4,000 (40 to 1)
Tennessee Titans +$5,000 (50 to 1)
Washington Redskins +$7,500 (75 to 1)
http://www.footballlocks.com/nfl_futures_odds_super_bowl_liii.shtml
Absolutely. And the flip side to this is when teams pay guys like Stafford or Flacco. They are decent or good QBs, (sometimes great) no doubt, but they aren't worth the money and it ultimately hurts the entire team because they are completely overpaid for their talent level.
Beating the dead horse to death, but this deal also goes to show how nuts it was to think the Pats had any way of keeping JG and Brady.
The guaranteed money is actually less than I thought he’d get — it’s basically Alex Smith money.
Though I suspect we’ll discover when all the details are public that JG is likely to earn a lot more of his non-guaranteed money than Smith is.
Though I suspect we’ll discover when all the details are public that JG is likely to earn a lot more of his non-guaranteed money than Smith is.
The JG contract should be fantastic news for the Patriots brain trust (and us):
- Vindicates the Pats for trading him - there is no way they could have kept him, as it is clear he was looking for premium starter money - and more importantly for a premium starter role
- Shows that the Patriots did successfully develop a Brady successor - which lends credence to the idea that they can do it again (and it adds to Josh McDaniels legend as a QB whisperer)
- Creates another NFC rival to tire out would be opponents before they get to the SB (though the flip side of that is that NFC defenses will be that much more battle tested)
- Is a counterpoint to the prevailing theory that the Patriots are self interested cheaters. If the Patriots dealt JG to a good home in mid season, and provided he succeeds, it will reflect well on the organisation and potentially add SF to the list of teams that work well with the Patriots. I suspect it is not a coincidence that most of those teams are in the NFC.
Even if it’s an overpay here vs getting a QB in the draft that is offset in part by the savings they will get by underpaying for whatever other position they take with the pick.
5. They accomplished a major objective — dealing him out of the AFC, for the foreseeable future. The Pats clearly thought very highly of JG. That judgment has been confirmed by the 49ers. I don’t want him in the AFC East, Denver or Jax.
Very true - thanks for that. The JG contract makes that accomplishment semi-permanent - I.e., JG is in the NFC for likely the rest of Brady's career.
1. Well, they could have cut Brady loose after this season and made JG the starter. Ya, a ridiculous notion, but a few years from now we may look back and say that would have been the right thing to do.
2. Just because they developed JG is probably more of a reflection of JG than the Patriots. How many young QBs stuck behind Brady have gone on to great careers?
3. Tire out NFC opponents before they get to the SB? Huh?
4. Trading JG mid-season was nothing more than a franchise trying to figure out the best thing to do with an asset. It does not enhance the Patriots reputation of "self interested cheaters". In fact, many think they were fleeced for a potential franchise QB.
1) There would be a fan mutiny. No, they couldn’t
2) It doesn’t matter what those QBs do post NE - only what they do with McDaniels
3) Yes agreed that is meaningless
4) Also meaningless from a public image perspective but may make other GMs slightly more likely to work with the Pats
In the scenario 1 above, the Pats would cut Brady after an MVP season and amazing SB performance for a guy that had not even started more than a handful of games?
There is no way they could have made the move without letting Jimmy play and Jimmy wasn’t playing over Tom this past season.
Looking back and saying they should have cut Brady after 2017 and the season he just had is the very definition of hindsight being 20/20.
Hopefully the deal works out for both franchises.
Also Tom Brady liked Jimmy’s Instagram post about getting paid.
So I guess TB12 didn’t hate him as much as some media outlets reported, if one wanted to put any stock in the like of a post.
Overall good deal for Jimmy and the 49ers. He will still have one more big deal in him and the 49ers don’t need to worry about the most important position in football.
So I guess TB12 didn’t hate him as much as some media outlets reported, if one wanted to put any stock in the like of a post.
Overall good deal for Jimmy and the 49ers. He will still have one more big deal in him and the 49ers don’t need to worry about the most important position in football.
Last edited:
Not to mention even if you assume that they could have gotten Jimmy to play 2018 at the same cap number as Brady is due, cutting or trading Brady would have cost another $14 million against the cap. So, this move would mean that Jimmy's first year as QB would cost the Patriots their MVP quarterback, and they've be significantly hamstrung in any ability to try to build around their new $100 million (give or take) franchise QB in his first year.
And the truth is they couldn't have gotten Jimmy to play for Brady's cap number if they had gotten rid of Brady. They likely have to pay him upwards of $25 million or more, so we're really probably talking closer to $18 or $19 million more on the cap.
If Brady had been horrible last year or had shown signs of decline, then, yes, you have your break the glass guy in Jimmy and franchise him and take the cap hit for Brady. But you're certainly not happy about it. $14 million is a lot of cap money. You'd much rather that Brady play well.
There was no good option. Was there a delta between what they might have gotten for Jimmy in the off season and what they got for him mid-season? Possibly. Was that delta worth waiting to see how Brady would do? Water under the bridge. Who the hell can say?
It seems pretty difficult to draft and develop starting QBs, and there are few certainties in the talent pool. But the fact that they seemed to get it right with JG, and that a couple of other teams seem to have done well recently (Eagles / Wentz, Rams / Goff, KC / Mahomes, Texans / Watson) leads to optimism that the Pats can do it again in the next 2-4 years before Brady hangs them up.
(lots of hedging in there I know; getting used to the mocking though
)