Jaylen Brown - underrated?

Cesar Crespo

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If you ignore guys who didn't shoot a large enough sample of free throws AND three pointers, it's almost no one. Might as well call it a "Bruce Bowen" (career 3P% of .393 on 2,082 attempts, career FT% of .575 on 1,013 attempts).
I'm curious if we will see more players like this giving the ever growing importance of the 3 point shot, especially when a player is attempting 300 3 point shots in a season while taking all of 34 free throws. For players who pretty much get all their offense from beyond the arc, FT shooting isn't all that big a concern.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I would guess the dunking in slippery conditions combined with PTSD from watching Hayward shatter his ankle.
I mean, this isn't Jeff Kent "washing his truck". And its not like he was under duress or anything like that. I am more worried about any players walking in the icy conditions than I am a guy who jumps hundreds of times a week adding one more leap.
 

Ed Hillel

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What alarms you about this "nonsense" that involves a 21 year old kid goofing around in the snow?
It would be the dunking in snow and slippery conditions on a slippery rim, especially for a guy with achilles and knee injuries this year.
I mean, this isn't Jeff Kent "washing his truck". And its not like he was under duress or anything like that. I am more worried about any players walking in the icy conditions than I am a guy who jumps hundreds of times a week adding one more leap.
Why would being under duress have anything to do with it? And why are you more worried about someone walking in icy conditions than dunking a basketball in them? Because he jumps a lot? As a functional biped, I would guess he does quite a bit of walking, as well.

My post was mostly in jest, but let’s be honest it’s not the brightest thing for him to be doing.
 

Manzivino

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I mean, this isn't Jeff Kent "washing his truck". And its not like he was under duress or anything like that. I am more worried about any players walking in the icy conditions than I am a guy who jumps hundreds of times a week adding one more leap.
To be clear, I was joking.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I am just messing around with you guys too. Brown and his extracurriculars, which mostly appear to involve basketball-related and geeky stuff, worries me less than some of the players who are burning the candle at both ends by partying hard.

That said, it would totally suck if he blew something out playing around in the snow. He would get a few more than "no" days off.
 

lovegtm

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Man, Jaylen lives in the ‘burbs at 21? Sad!
He's from the burbs in Atlanta; people like what they know.

Honestly I love the enthusiasm and fun he's having with the game. Love it, bodes really well for his future.
 

jimv

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Jaylen's FT shooting continues to be a problem. 0 of 4 last night, down to 57%. In the 4 games since coming back -

FT - 5 of 11
3pt - 5 of 18
overall - 16 of 44

Hopefully just a slump rather than the FT trouble spreading
 

reggiecleveland

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I'm curious if we will see more players like this giving the ever growing importance of the 3 point shot, especially when a player is attempting 300 3 point shots in a season while taking all of 34 free throws. For players who pretty much get all their offense from beyond the arc, FT shooting isn't all that big a concern.
I expect there may end up being more guys like this. The 3pt shot has changed the game so much. I see HS kids I coach against that are good 3pt shooters but struggle with even simple shots around the rim. It seems counter-intuitive they are better at the more difficult shot, but that is where they spend their time.
 

Jimbodandy

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I expect there may end up being more guys like this. The 3pt shot has changed the game so much. I see HS kids I coach against that are good 3pt shooters but struggle with even simple shots around the rim. It seems counter-intuitive they are better at the more difficult shot, but that is where they spend their time.
I have heard anecdotes that kids don't finish as well in this age of AAU and various travel teams. Some of these guys haven't played that many games that didn't have a referee or at least a coach blowing whistles. I'm curious if your observation is consistent with that.

There's no specific evidence that I have seen, but as a kid, I always preferred playing suburban kids for that reason. We city kids were more used to fighting through contact at the rim.

Of course your three point argument makes a shitload of sense.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Jaylen is amazing and whoever said he was too smart deserves infinite retroactive face punches.
 

reggiecleveland

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I have heard anecdotes that kids don't finish as well in this age of AAU and various travel teams. Some of these guys haven't played that many games that didn't have a referee or at least a coach blowing whistles. I'm curious if your observation is consistent with that.

There's no specific evidence that I have seen, but as a kid, I always preferred playing suburban kids for that reason. We city kids were more used to fighting through contact at the rim.

Of course your three point argument makes a shitload of sense.
Certainly kids all over, at least North America play way too many formal games. My own kid fits into this. I want him to play pickup, just learn to get 2 a hundred different ways, but when he goes to the few places there are pickup these days there are few good players. So he plays on club team, and does his job, guards different positions, move the ball, run the floor, finish or take wide open shots. He is quite sophisticated in what he can do in team D, switch screens in one matchup, hedge with another,

Of course the level of play in my neck of the woods is below high level AAU, Once every two years or so we have kid that gets div 1 buzz, and every 4/5 years kid (usually a big) goes to a decent div 1 school. In a are years we had two of these kids in the city at once was when we took them down to AAU stuff, so it has been a while since I have observed AAU in the USA first hand.

Lastly though I am coaching again, and the 3pter is such a weapon I debate whether we should spend 50% of practice time shooting 3s.
 

Imbricus

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Brown making a big splash overseas. I don't think I've ever read an article with so many long, thoughtful quotes from him, including this one:
That’s the reality because sports is a mechanism of control. If people didn’t have sports they would be a lot more disappointed with their role in society. There would be a lot more anger or stress about the injustice of poverty and hunger. Sports is a way to channel our energy into something positive. Without sports who knows what half of these kids would be doing?
I like hearing him speak his mind. Good thing he's playing for the Boston Celtics though and not the Oklahoma City Thunder. ;)
 

DannyDarwinism

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Of course the level of play in my neck of the woods is below high level AAU, Once every two years or so we have kid that gets div 1 buzz, and every 4/5 years kid (usually a big) goes to a decent div 1 school. In a are years we had two of these kids in the city at once was when we took them down to AAU stuff, so it has been a while since I have observed AAU in the USA first hand.
I've been wondering about the general level of competition in Canada because a guy I play with is originally from Halifax and he's one of the better players among our regulars, which isn't terribly impressive, but does include a couple of DIII guys and a dude who rode the pine at Northwestern. He's a 6'2 guard with crazy range and no conscious whatsoever. Google tells me he played for St. Francis Xavier at the time they won a couple of CIS championships, but I can't really tell what the CIS encompasses.
 

reggiecleveland

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I've been wondering about the general level of competition in Canada because a guy I play with is originally from Halifax and he's one of the better players among our regulars, which isn't terribly impressive, but does include a couple of DIII guys and a dude who rode the pine at Northwestern. He's a 6'2 guard with crazy range and no conscious whatsoever. Google tells me he played for St. Francis Xavier at the time they won a couple of CIS championships, but I can't really tell what the CIS encompasses.
Do you have a name? I probably know who he is, even though that is the other side of the country.
Is he Randy Knorr?
Cis is, or was genially Div 2 level. Powers that compete for the title can beat div 1 teams, just like good Div 2 teams. Like most secondary leagues CIS players are usually really good, but smaller less athletic that Div 1 guys. Guard play translates better since all the +6-9 guys find ways to the USA, the top 2 or three schools here. Guys are usually good stdents, and have to stay in school legitimately for the most part, so often CIS teams can really execute gameplans, etc at an advanced level with academic guys that stay together for up to five years. Perenial champ Carleton is a good div 1 school, half the time the crush everyone in Canada.

Recently what was the JUCO level of Canadian ball schools have used the "lets be fair" Canadian attitude to force their way into the CIS greatly diluting the talent pool. At one time guys could develop with well coached JUCO programs and transfer to bigger schools, now those kids stay at the local school and star on a team that gets smoked most of the time.
 

joe dokes

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Wow, Jaylen is a special person.
He sounds like Bill Bradley did when I was a little kid.

And dont kill me, but . . . He also reminds me of Phil Jackson, before he fell in love with himself. I remember reading an article in the Boston Phoenix in the early 80s when Jackson was coaching -- and driving the bus for -- the Albany patroons in the CBA. He sounded then much the way Popovich sounds now. I think Jackson decided he knew everything and stopped learning.
 

reggiecleveland

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I expect at some point we will see the top four or five programs in Canada try to go NCAA. Next time we have a conservative PM in Canada and Democrat in the White House it will happen. Dems are inclusive while republicans protectionist, while in Canada, as the little brother, it is different, Liberals want to protect our "unique" Canadian way, while conservatives want us to be more like the USA.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Do you have a name? I probably know who he is, even though that is the other side of the country.
Is he Randy Knorr?
Cis is, or was genially Div 2 level. Powers that compete for the title can beat div 1 teams, just like good Div 2 teams. Like most secondary leagues CIS players are usually really good, but smaller less athletic that Div 1 guys. Guard play translates better since all the +6-9 guys find ways to the USA, the top 2 or three schools here. Guys are usually good stdents, and have to stay in school legitimately for the most part, so often CIS teams can really execute gameplans, etc at an advanced level with academic guys that stay together for up to five years. Perenial champ Carleton is a good div 1 school, half the time the crush everyone in Canada.

Recently what was the JUCO level of Canadian ball schools have used the "lets be fair" Canadian attitude to force their way into the CIS greatly diluting the talent pool. At one time guys could develop with well coached JUCO programs and transfer to bigger schools, now those kids stay at the local school and star on a team that gets smoked most of the time.
Interesting. That sounds about right for him- highly skilled on offense, good handle, great pull-up, good passer- but not particularly athletic. Pretty similar to the D3 NESCAC guys I used to play with, just add 15 years and 15 pounds. He can really take over the big-centric pick up games we play with his shooting though, unless I'm guarding him, of course. I'll pm you his name. Looks like he transferred to Dalhousie after a couple of years. He said that he scrimmaged Northwestern in college (not sure for which program); claimed he went off, but they still lost. It definitely seems like more and more guys are coming out of Canada, with RJ Barrett potentially what Andrew Wiggins was supposed to be.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Brown making a big splash overseas. I don't think I've ever read an article with so many long, thoughtful quotes from him, including this one:

I like hearing him speak his mind. Good thing he's playing for the Boston Celtics though and not the Oklahoma City Thunder. ;)
I'm glad he's playing for the Cs and not just because he can dunk a basketball but because I'm eager to see where his life journey goes. Without making this all V&N, it is my belief that the African-American community needs role models who are willing to talk about the tough questions but in a way that is honest and genuine and moral and isn't reflected in a "what's in it for me or my brand?" mentality.

All of the stuff is good but in that context, I particularly liked this quote:

Brown’s readiness to talk about politics and culture might account for the surreal suggestion in 2016 that he was “too smart” for the NBA. From the outside, ‘smart’ seemed a euphemism for ‘troublesome’. What did Brown think when, as a teenager, he heard words unlikely to be used in conjunction with a white athlete? “It was hinting at something very problematic within society. It bothered me but I was so focused on getting to where I was going I never dissected it or pointed it out to anybody.

“But I disagree that an athlete can’t be intelligent. Some people think that, in basketball, we have a bunch of masculine adults who don’t know how to control themselves. They’re feeble-minded and can’t engage or articulate ideas. That’s a narrative they keep trying to paint. We’re trying to change it because that statement definitely has a racist undertone.”
 

lovegtm

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“But I disagree that an athlete can’t be intelligent. Some people think that, in basketball, we have a bunch of masculine adults who don’t know how to control themselves. They’re feeble-minded and can’t engage or articulate ideas. That’s a narrative they keep trying to paint. We’re trying to change it because that statement definitely has a racist undertone.”
I love Jaylen, and think he's a very smart guy, but this quote is really shoddy, analytically. The reason there's a perception that athletes aren't intelligent, on average, is because it's really fucking hard to find humans who are 6-2 to 6-10, have incredible motor skills and kinesthetic sense, are very fast-twitch, are disciplined, and also have high IQs. Everything except the last is basically a requirement to be an NBA player, with the last only being moderately helpful.

Blaming that perception of athletes on "racism" is incredibly dumb/poorly thought out, and I'd expect more from a smart, thoughtful dude like Jaylen.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I love Jaylen, and think he's a very smart guy, but this quote is really shoddy, analytically. The reason there's a perception that athletes aren't intelligent, on average, is because it's really fucking hard to find humans who are 6-2 to 6-10, have incredible motor skills and kinesthetic sense, are very fast-twitch, are disciplined, and also have high IQs. Everything except the last is basically a requirement to be an NBA player, with the last only being moderately helpful.

Blaming that perception of athletes on "racism" is incredibly dumb/poorly thought out, and I'd expect more from a smart, thoughtful dude like Jaylen.
Why do you have racism in quotes?
 

slamminsammya

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I love Jaylen, and think he's a very smart guy, but this quote is really shoddy, analytically. The reason there's a perception that athletes aren't intelligent, on average, is because it's really fucking hard to find humans who are 6-2 to 6-10, have incredible motor skills and kinesthetic sense, are very fast-twitch, are disciplined, and also have high IQs. Everything except the last is basically a requirement to be an NBA player, with the last only being moderately helpful.

Blaming that perception of athletes on "racism" is incredibly dumb/poorly thought out, and I'd expect more from a smart, thoughtful dude like Jaylen.
Sorry, but this right here is where the shoddiness is, analytically. OK, you have correctly pointed out that athletes are rare amongst the general population. But conditioning on athletes, you have given no reason why their distribution of "intelligence", whatever that may be, should be any different than the population at large, where as a culture we supposedly allow a greater possibility of intelligence.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I love Jaylen, and think he's a very smart guy, but this quote is really shoddy, analytically. The reason there's a perception that athletes aren't intelligent, on average, is because it's really fucking hard to find humans who are 6-2 to 6-10, have incredible motor skills and kinesthetic sense, are very fast-twitch, are disciplined, and also have high IQs. Everything except the last is basically a requirement to be an NBA player, with the last only being moderately helpful.

Blaming that perception of athletes on "racism" is incredibly dumb/poorly thought out, and I'd expect more from a smart, thoughtful dude like Jaylen.
That is not his point. He was talking about people labeling him as "too smart." As the article says, that's never talked about in terms of white athletes.

And as for your contention that it's hard to find guys who are athletic enough to play in the NBA, I have to wonder about that. I mean is IQ distribution across NBA players that different from the general population? I would think that it's harder to find high IQ day laborers than NBA basketball players.
 

slamminsammya

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And as for your contention that it's hard to find guys who are athletic enough to play in the NBA, I have to wonder about that. I mean is IQ distribution across NBA players that different from the general population? I would think that it's harder to find high IQ day laborers than NBA basketball players.
Yea, this is the same point I was trying to make. @lovegtm, in other terms Jaylen Brown is talking about how as a society we underestimate P( is smart | is athlete). Your argument is P( is athlete) is small, so therefore P( is athlete and is smart) is even smaller, which is really irrelevant to the question of what P( is smart | is athlete) is.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I bought my kid a Kyrie jersey for Christmas, but I'm going to get us both a Jaylen jersey. That kid is awesome.

Love his game, love his attitude, love his curiosity and courage. Love his emotional intelligence and individuality.

Maybe my favorite player since Reggie Lewis.
 

americantrotter

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He’s my favorite Celtic for sure. I love his game, his hair, and who he is probably most.

I also love the new NBA which allows the players to be more than sneaker hawkers and I can’t help but think LeBron who I want to hate has given so much cover to al of the other players to speak up.
 

jmm57

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20 for his last 22 from the line. 24-26 if you count the Futures game 4-4. Huge development if he can really turn the corner to an average/above average shooter from the line.
 

luckiestman

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20 for his last 22 from the line. 24-26 if you count the Futures game 4-4. Huge development if he can really turn the corner to an average/above average shooter from the line.

It was a major weakness given the way he plays to contact. I hope this improvement is real.
 

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The progress he's made in the past year plus has been impressive. Most notably for me, recently, is that he is seeing the floor better, staying under control on drives, finishing well through contact.
 

RetractableRoof

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Dude must be some kind of young and strong, word is he's pretty much okay. That was a horrible looking fall.
I've taken that fall, at around that age (without his muscle tone). He's going to have some residual hurting. Pretty much ok is an answer to a prayer.