Is something amiss with Amir?

RetractableRoof

RetractableRoof

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Serious question for those who actually know the game.

GM 2: 9 minutes, w/ 2 offensive rebounds and 4 points.
GM 1: 18 minutes w/ 4 rebounds (3 offensive) and 5 points.

Is it just matchups or is he hiding an injury or is he cooked against athletes? I'm seeing him stand around, watching rebounds, not putting a body on people. I don't want to knee jerk and blame effort, or draw conclusions about a player I genuinely like, hell I love his professionalism. But I don't know what I'm seeing and want some other input.
 
Eddie Jurak

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He is known to have ankle problems that come and go and limit his performance. Not sure if thatcher he issue here or not, but it is a known issue for him.
 
Mooch

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It's pretty clearly his ankles. He can't jump at all anymore and his mobility is tree-like.
 
DJnVa

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This series is showing us the way forward. This apparent beat down will lead to some major changes. I hope those ping pong balls go our way.
 
sezwho

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsam01.html

This season he averaged 20.1m/6.5pts/4.6rebs*. His playoff averages are 13.5m/4.5pts/3rebs. They are real declines, though you can see from RR's game stats in the first post they have extreme volatility. I think he is clearly suffering from foot/ankle issues, which I recall as pretty widely reported over the last couple years. The minutes are the key stat for me though as they could clearly could have used a functional Amir to help on the boards at both ends. A ground bound Amir who also can't run the court on the other hand...

*Side note - these numbers are all in their 4th straight year of decline, aside from one year where rebounds slightly...rebounded? In any case the sun is clearly setting (has set?) and counting on him next year is a mistake.
 
ifmanis5

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DrewDawg said:
This series is showing us the way forward. This apparent beat down will lead to some major changes. I hope those ping pong balls go our way.
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Pretty messed up to have it happen in the first round when you're a one seed but agreed.
Many of the problems we're seeing in this playoffs are exactly the same as we saw in last year's playoffs. Our bigs get pushed around, IT has trouble getting good looks in slow paced games and the supporting cast unable to consistently step up.
 
sezwho

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bosox79 said:
Do people still want to bring him back?
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Big guys with foot problems make for dangerous investments. I do like his game, and he is more productive on both ends than KO, but would only resign him expecting 12-15min and assuming we could sort a reasonable contract.
 
Was (Not Wasdin)

Was (Not Wasdin)

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I havent watched much of either of the first two games because of work, but I have listened to them. Robin Lopez seems to be able to do whatever he wants, and his 16pts/9 rbs per game so far is a pretty significant increase from his regular season numbers. If he really is dominating the way it seems, I want no part of Amir next season.
 
Rico Guapo

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Was (Not Wasdin) said:
I havent watched much of either of the first two games because of work, but I have listened to them. Robin Lopez seems to be able to do whatever he wants, and his 16pts/9 rbs per game so far is a pretty significant increase from his regular season numbers. If he really is dominating the way it seems, I want no part of Amir next season.
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Lopez is destroying Amir AND Al on the boards.
 
Kliq

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I think it is natural to nitpick players who are not giving you much when the team is losing to an inferior opponent in a playoff series. However, Amir's performance during the first two games of this series has been of about the same quality as Amir's performance all season, in which the Celtics were a very good team that regularly beat teams like Chicago.

The reason the Celtics are losing this series is not really because of Amir. Sure, if he had a better player at the 4 for this series logically the Celtics would be performing better; but the reason the Celtics are underperforming during this series is because guy that had been good/solid this season (Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Olynyk) have been bad. People lamenting that the Celtics can't compete with Chicago with Amir on the floor are ignoring that the Celtics were very good this season with Amir playing significant minutes.
 
ifmanis5

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Kliq said:
I think it is natural to nitpick players who are not giving you much when the team is losing to an inferior opponent in a playoff series. However, Amir's performance during the first two games of this series has been of about the same quality as Amir's performance all season, in which the Celtics were a very good team that regularly beat teams like Chicago.

The reason the Celtics are losing this series is not really because of Amir. Sure, if he had a better player at the 4 for this series logically the Celtics would be performing better; but the reason the Celtics are underperforming during this series is because guy that had been good/solid this season (Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Olynyk) have been bad. People lamenting that the Celtics can't compete with Chicago with Amir on the floor are ignoring that the Celtics were very good this season with Amir playing significant minutes.
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Yes, Amir started, but he only averaged 20 MPG and he was rarely on the court at the end of games.
But, in a way, that proves your point. Bradley, Crowder, Brown and Olynyk have been bad, while the Bulls' other guys have massively over-achieved.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Kliq said:
I think it is natural to nitpick players who are not giving you much when the team is losing to an inferior opponent in a playoff series. However, Amir's performance during the first two games of this series has been of about the same quality as Amir's performance all season, in which the Celtics were a very good team that regularly beat teams like Chicago.

The reason the Celtics are losing this series is not really because of Amir. Sure, if he had a better player at the 4 for this series logically the Celtics would be performing better; but the reason the Celtics are underperforming during this series is because guy that had been good/solid this season (Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Olynyk) have been bad. People lamenting that the Celtics can't compete with Chicago with Amir on the floor are ignoring that the Celtics were very good this season with Amir playing significant minutes.
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Olynyk has been fine, probably better than fine. His numbers through 2 games are actually a bit better than the regular season, and the defensive difference with him on the court has been significant, he's arguably been the most valuable player on the team (sad considering all he's doing is providing solid bench minutes with solid defense).

The other 3 (plus Thomas who is struggling on both ends) and Amir are among the biggest problems. Amir has been horrendous to the level of being unplayable. His Drb% is 4.3 FOUR FUCKING PERCENT! his defense has fallen off a cliff, his TS% has gone from .628 to .364, he's gone from a 13.1% AST% to ZERO.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amir doesn't play again this series.
 
Kliq

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Cellar-Door said:
Olynyk has been fine, probably better than fine. His numbers through 2 games are actually a bit better than the regular season, and the defensive difference with him on the court has been significant, he's arguably been the most valuable player on the team (sad considering all he's doing is providing solid bench minutes with solid defense).

The other 3 (plus Thomas who is struggling on both ends) and Amir are among the biggest problems. Amir has been horrendous to the level of being unplayable. His Drb% is 4.3 FOUR FUCKING PERCENT! his defense has fallen off a cliff, his TS% has gone from .628 to .364, he's gone from a 13.1% AST% to ZERO.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amir doesn't play again this series.
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I don't even think Olynyk has been that bad, just listing names of people I think could be doing more.

IT has been the most important player on the Celtics this series, the TPA you showed earlier just shows me how gray of a stat that really is.
 
Cellar-Door

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Kliq said:
I don't even think Olynyk has been that bad, just listing names of people I think could be doing more.

IT has been the most important player on the Celtics this series, the TPA you showed earlier just shows me how gray of a stat that really is.
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IT hasn't been very good to me, though it is in some ways a tale of two games. He's been horrific defensively and turned the ball over a lot (20% of his possessions) in both games, his AST rate is down as well. Now it's kind of skewed by being 2 games, he was good enough offensively in game 1 that he was a net positive despite the defense and turnovers. Game 2 he was abysmal by any measure.
 
RetractableRoof

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One thing that I felt the young Antoine/Pierce (and Mercer/Billups for the 8 minutes they were present) generation of Celtics needed more of was a quality veteran voice to make sure the young guys were pointed in the right direction, were approaching practice with the right attitude/intensity etc. I'm wondering if Amir fits the role for this coming generation. Based on what I have seen and the answers in this thread I don't believe that he will be able to survive long enough as a contributor on the court for when they are really at the door of competing for a championship. I'm not sure he is the right person for that role, just wondering if his body will last the 3-4 years it may take for the Brown/2017 pick/2018 pick combination to mature if that is the direction Ainge is building or has to build if the trades/FAs don't materialize.

It's an interesting aspect of team building and asset management. They are stashing players because they don't have roster spots, but all young teams do need veteran voices in the mix providing for professionalism, intensity, etc. Unfortunately those voices usually have to be contributors or they can get tuned out by the young bucks. Next years team is going to be incredibly interesting in this regard. One could see Amir, Zeller, Jerebko (can someone please give this man some minutes in the playoffs if the players who are getting them can't get it done?), Young, Green, Olynyk all being turned over (meaning some of, not likely all). Ainge has already said he didn't draft certain players from last years draft because he didn't want to muddy the development water for Brown. Who he drafts, who he stashes, who he keeps, Ainge has a full plate in front of him.
 
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