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HS basketball rule Question: Simple

Discussion in 'Coaches Corner' started by Bleedred, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    6,938
    Can someone direct me to the rule citation for high school basketball for an offensive foul that is not player control?  i.e.  Offensive player A is charged with setting an illegal screen (i.e. moving).  Offensive player A is charged with with a personal foul; his team is charged a team foul, and if his team is over the limit (or the moving screen puts his team over the limit), foul shots awarded to opposing player who was fouled.
     
    Thanks
     
  2. knuck

    knuck Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    137
    Team control is what matters, not 'player control'. If Team A is in 'Team Control' and commits a common foul, there are no free throws awarded. 
     
    There is no 'team control' during a throw-in or try.
     
  3. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    I don't think such a thing exists under NFHS rules, a foul on the offense that results in free throws.  Foul shots should not be awarded on an illegal screen.
     
    From the 2014-15 NFHS Basketball Rules - Simplified and Illustrated
    "A5 sets an illegal screen on B3. This is a team-control foul. Team B will be awarded a throw-in at a designated spot nearest to where the foul occurred , even if in the bonus."
    it cites 4-19-7: 7-5-5
    My full rule book is older but I think this is what it's referencing:
    4-19-7 A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has team control.
     
    The ball is awarded out of bounds after: A player-control or team-control foul, as in 7-5-4a.
     
    I think the definition of "team control" has changed over the years, maybe that was a point of confusion if free throws were awarded.
     
     
     
  4. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    Team control exists during a throw in - that was an NFHS rule change for 2011-2012
     
  5. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    6,938
    Heinie  -  where can I get a rule book and or a website that contains the rules?
     
    Free throws were awarded at a crucial point in the game.   I knew they shouldn't have been rewarded (at least I thought I did), but couldn't cite chapter and verse so didn't challenge.
     
  6. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    You can get a rule book on Amazon. Hard copy or a version for a tablet/phone.  They're pretty cheap, $6 or so.
     
    2011-2012 in pdf form published online you can probably google and find someone else who did this with a newer version.  I find the casebook or simplified and illustrated versions easier to understand.
     
    Good luck challenging a call like that during a game. It doesn't matter so much what the rule is as much as what the officials think the rule is. If you actually break out a rule book during a game, with 90%+ of officials, you're getting a technical foul and having every close call go against you the rest of the way.
     
  7. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    Agreed.  I've never done that for that very reason.*  Still pissed at myself for not at least asking for an explanation.
     
    edit:  *well, that reason, and also it's kind of douchie.
     
  8. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp captain obvious

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    6,104
    My understanding is that when it's a team control foul, the penalty is a change of possession, not free throws awarded.  
     
    I learned one this past spring during AAU that I never knew before.  My post player went to the block and made contact with her defender and then spun to look for the entry pass.  As the defender was trying to push her off the block my player, who was a little stronger, began to move the post defender back a few steps.  Typical fighting for position on the block.
     
    She got called for an offensive foul.  Why? I asked.  The ref said she was guilty of displacing the defender.  
     
    I'm like, uh, yeah, because the defender was pushing my player off the block.  What's she supposed to do, let herself get moved around?  

    Well I asked a friend of mine later who is a state basketball official and he said yep, the ref technically had it right.  So once post players engage and contact is made, you can hold your position, but you can't displace them.
     
    I never knew that.  I always thought that 90% of post play was trying to move the defender around so you can get better position.
     
  9. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    It is, just not by rule.   
     

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