Hoyer, Patriots reach agreement on 3-year contract
- Thread starter bsj
- Start date
PFT reporting that Green Bay tried to sign Hoyer. The caveat is RapSheet, who originally reported the story.
As for JG, sure he could bust, but I'm inclined to take everything BB said yesterday at face value -- he's a very good player going to a very good coach. Pats seem to have treated JG like a nuclear weapon -- keep him as long as you can and be very careful with disposal. The thought of him starting for Denver or succeeding Ben in Pittsburgh (should he retire) is not pleasant.
As for JG, sure he could bust, but I'm inclined to take everything BB said yesterday at face value -- he's a very good player going to a very good coach. Pats seem to have treated JG like a nuclear weapon -- keep him as long as you can and be very careful with disposal. The thought of him starting for Denver or succeeding Ben in Pittsburgh (should he retire) is not pleasant.
Because before that he was really good? Given how many chances QBs get for a guy that talented to be unemployed after 3 bad years on the worst roster in football with incompetent coaches is truly bizarre. Especially as a backup where the most important skill is not throwing picks, one of the areas Kaepernick is exceptional at.
I understand in this particular instance why they went Hoyer, but Kaepernick is still young enough that his physical talent and past performance makes him an interesting gamble, over the Drew Stanton, Blaine Gabbert, Drew Henson crowd is in no way an indicator that he's out because he's not good.
Edit also being a top 30 QB 2 of the last 3 years should make you attractive as a backup at least in a league where 30 QBs start any given week.
This is dumb and disingenuous, he was old and injured and still had job offers. The counter is that Drew Henson was never good, nor were a handful of other backup QBs who are employed despite being much worse than Kaepernick not only in his good years but his bad as well.
You're creating a separate argument that I'm not arguing. I never said other teams with different QB situations shouldn't be approaching CK. Don't change the discussion to fit a different narrative.
Edit: And no, those numbers are based off a minimum amount of snaps. Being one of the worst QBs in the league because he qualified with enough snaps doesn't make him a good backup. All it means he has a difficult time being good.
When Kap was good, it was due to the dual-threat he represented. Remember when Chip Kelly's offense was revolutionizing the league in Philly? The NFL figured Kap out. He isn't a good traditional pocket passer, so teams have no interest. He isn't accurate, has no touch, etc.
I'm responding to your argument that he's a shit QB and there is no football reason for signing him. I said up thread that I understand going with Hoyer for system familiarity and because he's definitely in playing shape. However you argued that there was no football reasons for signing Kap. That's clearly not the case, he's talented he has shown more upside in the past than Hoyer or anyone else, and he brings a different skill set with mobility. He's clearly one of the 2 best available QBs and preferring his upside and physical tools isn't unreasonable at all.
Edit to respond to your edit, sure it means he played better than someone who started much of the year for an NFL team. Assuming he's worse than a large number of guys who didn't play three years in a row isn't reasonable you're assuming without any evidence. Teams gave significant snaps to players worse than him, and continued to do so several years in a row.
Because it’s the only way we’ll have any fucking fun this season if Brady goes down.
Duh.
I mean, like you said—all this talk is about the backup QB. Most popular guy in town indeed...
Not that I necessarily disagree but this just reminds me of how BB makes every QB every week sound like the second coming of Brady. My favorite was when he did it for Bortles.
That's absurd. He didn't say we would get Fitz too.
I always liked Hoyer when he was here the first time. He seemed like he had a good handle on the offense and was composed in the pocket. Getting him back as a solid backup makes the return on this trade more palatable.
I don’t understand why you refuse to acknowledge the connection between Kaps good years and the short-term take over of the Read option in the NFL.
Yes Kaps had some years where he was a good, young QB that showed a lot of upside. It occurred exactly when the Read option was the hot new NFL offense. He has the physical traits you want in a QB to run that type of offense. But the Read option’s popularity has waned because defenses figured out how to defend it. Once the defenses figured out how to force Kap to be a pocket passer he was terrible. He is not accurate with the football. There is a mountain of evidence to support this.
He had a unique skill and hit the nfl right when that skill was en vogue but it’s no longer the case. His own stats from the end of his time in San Fran support this. What you’re left with is a guy that may be physically gifted but does not possess the specific skills needed to be an adequate NFL QB.
Could Belichick and McDaniels possibly find a way to make use of his physical gifts in a new way that the NFL has not seen yet? Sure, that could be possible. But why would you want a backup quarterback that would only be successful if you reinvent your entire offense for his specific skills? That makes no sense.
He also had big fumble numbers in his good seasons. That alone likely disqualified him from a Belichick team. You can’t just bench the backup quarterback and go to the 3rd guy if he keeps fumbling.
The point is even the best QB ever had a playoff game where he was completely horrible and gave the team no chance. You can't judge a player by one game. Overall Hoyer has been a pretty decent backup QB.
I actually think this is an interesting point that should be explored a little more. No sane GM would, at this point in their careers, pick Hoyer over JG to be their starting QB. Zero. JG's upside and age work greatly in his favor over Hoyer.
BUT....
If we're just talking about *backup* quarterback, a guy who could win you a few games if needed.... well... JG was really good in his 2.5 games last year. Really good. But Hoyer also has had a lot of those kinds of games, if you can believe it.
JG has had 3 games where he's thrown more than 10 passes. Those three games:
10-17 (58.8%), 90 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 73.2 rating
24-33 (72.7%), 264 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 106.1 rating
18-26 (69.2%), 232 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 135.4 rating
Hoyer has had 47 games where he's thrown more than 10 passes. Of those 47...
- 14 (29.8%) he's had a rating of 100+
- 21 (44.7%) he's had a rating of 90+
- 26 (55.3%) he's had a rating of 80+
So Hoyer is a QB that is perfectly capable of playing really well. He's also capable of playing really poorly. Just what a backup should be.
Everyone knows they wanted Hoyer. If they bring in CK, he says all the right things, looks good in a workout, and then they sign Hoyer sight unseen anyway, then it looks like they just brought him in for show and wasted his time for pr reasons and to try to avoid the lawsuit.
Sorry if off topic, but do you think Kap would sign if a team promised to set up liaison between the police in that city and the black community and maybe give him a hand in the process? At some point a protest has to have goal. I wonder if anyone wanted him enough o go there.
If he really is the poster boy for the kneeling, maybe he could get some to suggest it stops.
If he really is the poster boy for the kneeling, maybe he could get some to suggest it stops.
Maybe there could be some sort of conditional agreement that they would set up the liaison but only if he played well.
I'd love for this to go to court and Belichick being on the stand using video evidence to show why Kaepernick sucks and the Patriots didn't look at him.
Yeah; I'm in the 'Kap is getting screwed' camp, and I still agree with the above completely. You want a backup QB to be able to step into the existing offense, and he's almost the polar opposite of a Brady-led offense.
I'm strongly tempted to create an "all Kapernick all the time" thread just so that the issue stops polluting every other thread around here.
I don’t understand why you refuse to acknowledge the connection between Kaps good years and the short-term take over of the Read option in the NFL.
This isn't said enough. Kaepernick was good at a point in time, the league adjusted, he was injured for a while, might not be what teams want in their system and might want starter money.
Oh yeah... and he might be a huge distraction.
This isn't said enough. Kaepernick was good at a point in time, the league adjusted, he was injured for a while, might not be what teams want in their system and might want starter money.
Oh yeah... and he might be a huge distraction.
Your Honor, assistant counsel Zolak will do the direct examination for witness Belichick.
Hoyer contract
2017 476K
2018 900K
2019 3M 1.5M guaranteed
But maybe fake news? It was a Field Yates tweet
2017 476K
2018 900K
2019 3M 1.5M guaranteed
But maybe fake news? It was a Field Yates tweet
Am I missing something with draft guides listing Sam Darnold as a 1/1 - because I see a guy who has struggled a ton this year and rumors are he is heading back to school. I realize going after sports journalists for being lazy is the lowest of the low hanging fruit but it seems like they looked for the 2017 post NFL draft 2018 NFL Draft Class Preview rankings, found the top guy in many of those articles and have just run with it this year.
Where are you still seeing him listed 1/1? Most updated ones I’ve seen have him as at least second if not third or fourth qb in the draft. Eligibility is almost always ignored at this point in the mock processes.
This is a super good deal. I have to believe Green Bay offered more, Hoyer must just miss Tommy.
Darnold probably heads back to school. Some of the others in this deep class also are not lighting it up. Rosen, for example.
Hoyer will be double dipping and is in fine shape money wise. As noted here, under the contract he signed with SF, he is pulling down about $10 million in guaranteed money over 2 years:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.patspulpit.com/platform/amp/2017/11/1/16596356/contract-details-between-the-patriots-and-qb-brian-hoyer-are-super-interesting
That is SF’s obligation, not the Pats, and that money is fully guaranteed.
I heard on San Francisco radio he had offset language. May not be double dipping.
Quite possible. That would mean SF pays him $2 million and the Pats pay him $900 K for next year.
There’s also a non-frivolous chance he hits his $3 million number with the Pats in 2019, either because TB is done after next season or because whoever is drafted next spring is not up to backup duty.