Home Theater PC

[AlNipper49]

Get one Roku and I'll share my Plex library with you. Easy peasy.

 

[Couperin47]

Sumner's fav, the WD TV Media player, for $85  til 8/5
http://www.neweggflash.com/product/15-140-006?utm_source=NFEmail080114&

 

[jayhoz]

Ok, I'm going to slowly acquire the components for a Plex server with Rokus as the playback devices.  I do not plan on doing any gaming on this at the moment.  I'd like the headroom to push three concurrent 1080P streams though that scenario will be extremely infrequent.
 
This is going to be a slow burn so the wife doesn't see the true cost of this thing. 
 
Purchased
Roku 3 (refurb)
OCZ ARC100 120GB SSD for the OS
 
Needed / Questions
Case - I'd like this small and quiet, but with enough room to expand as needed.  Thinking of doing a RAID setup.  Is four internal bays enough?
CPU - Thinking an i5 like the 4690K ?
Motherboard
RAM - 4 or 8Gb ?
Power Supply
Graphics Card
OS
 

Get one Roku and I'll share my Plex library with you. Easy peasy.

 
The Roku has been purchased big boy.

 

[SuperManny]

Ok, I'm going to slowly acquire the components for a Plex server with Rokus as the playback devices.  I do not plan on doing any gaming on this at the moment.  I'd like the headroom to push three concurrent 1080P streams though that scenario will be extremely infrequent.
 
This is going to be a slow burn so the wife doesn't see the true cost of this thing. 
 
Purchased
Roku 3 (refurb)
OCZ ARC100 120GB SSD for the OS
 
Needed / Questions
Case - I'd like this small and quiet, but with enough room to expand as needed.  Thinking of doing a RAID setup.  Is four internal bays enough?
CPU - Thinking an i5 like the 4690K ?
Motherboard
RAM - 4 or 8Gb ?
Power Supply
Graphics Card
OS
 
 
The Roku has been purchased big boy.

 
I use XBMC for my HTPC and love it, I believe Plex integrates well with XBMC but I've never used it. What is the benefit of going with Plex?
 
I use an old computer running Windows as the "server" at the moment and it works great sending files to several devices at once. I assume you need the newer CPU and graphics card because Plex trans codes from the server instead of the playback device? 

 

[jayhoz]

The Roku don't play nice with XBMC.  Yes, the transcoding, if needed, is done on the server side.

 

[SumnerH]

I use XBMC for my HTPC and love it, I believe Plex integrates well with XBMC but I've never used it. What is the benefit of going with Plex?
 
I use an old computer running Windows as the "server" at the moment and it works great sending files to several devices at once. I assume you need the newer CPU and graphics card because Plex trans codes from the server instead of the playback device?

Roku has shitty codec support and often needs transcoding to play stuff back, which Plex or Mediatomb will do on the fly.

XBMC's a much nicer product but doesn't transcode on the fly, so you need smarter players that will play all your codecs or you need to transcode everything ahead of time. You can use XBMC + Rokus if you transcode everything ahead of time, but you take a one-time quality hit when you do that and it's a moderate PITA.

(I use XBMC + WDTV Live SMP players and avoid transcoding).

 

[SuperManny]

Roku has shitty codec support and often needs transcoding to play stuff back, which Plex or Mediatomb will do on the fly.

XBMC's a much nicer product but doesn't transcode on the fly, so you need smarter players that will play all your codecs or you need to transcode everything ahead of time. You can use XBMC + Rokus if you transcode everything ahead of time, but you take a one-time quality hit when you do that and it's a moderate PITA.

(I use XBMC + WDTV Live SMP players and avoid transcoding).

 
Interesting, I haven't had any issues with streaming just using XBMC as the front end on other PCs and most recently an Amazon Fire TV, which streams the files from the old computer through SMB. The old computer is also used as my main HTPC in the Family Room but I've been thinking of either converting it to a full time server or buying/building a home server.

 

[SumnerH]

 
Interesting, I haven't had any issues with streaming just using XBMC as the front end on other PCs and most recently an Amazon Fire TV, which streams the files from the old computer through SMB. The old computer is also used as my main HTPC in the Family Room but I've been thinking of either converting it to a full time server or buying/building a home server.

 
PCs running XBMC will play pretty much anything you throw at them (even more than the WDTV).   The Fire TV is more limited than the Roku 3; it won't play VOB, MKV, or AVI files, unless things have changed recently.

 

[jayhoz]

Any thoughts on this case?  It says it holds 6 3.5" internal drives.  Do you think I could fit 6 HDD plus one SSD?
 
 
Fractal Design Node 304
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

 

[Red Sox Physicist]

 
PCs running XBMC will play pretty much anything you throw at them (even more than the WDTV).   The Fire TV is more limited than the Roku 3; it won't play VOB, MKV, or AVI files, unless things have changed recently.

The Fire TV (and Fire TV Stick) can run the android version of XBMC (now called Kodi). It'll do MKV over DLNA or SMB with that.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Any thoughts on this case?  It says it holds 6 3.5" internal drives.  Do you think I could fit 6 HDD plus one SSD?
 
 
Fractal Design Node 304
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

 
At the end of the day you can always tape the SSD on top of the spindle drive and live to tell about it.

 

[Couperin47]

Any thoughts on this case?  It says it holds 6 3.5" internal drives.  Do you think I could fit 6 HDD plus one SSD?
 
 
Fractal Design Node 304
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

 
A 2" long strip of 1" wide self-adhering velcro and you can place your SSDs anywhere you like in that sucker...btw a very nice Fractal design...

 

[jayhoz]

Here is where I am at.  Any thoughts / suggestions.  I'd like to try to shave some cost out.  The motherboard seems to me to be a place to start?
 
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
 
CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($168.99 @ NCIX US) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($117.98 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: OCZ ARC 100 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $20.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.00 @ B&H) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($99.00 @ B&H) 
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case  (Purchased For $59.99) 
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $619.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-05 13:51 EST-0500

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Last time I was shopping for large capacity hds, I remember that after reading reviews on Newegg, I formed the impression that Hds more than 2TB had a higher percentage of customer complains; something like 20-30% gave them 1 star which in my mind meant a bigger risk with my data. Things may have changed since then.

Also, although I am a big fan of Western Digital, I remember going for the Samsung green version, although I don't remember why.

 

[Couperin47]

Last time I was shopping for large capacity hds, I remember that after reading reviews on Newegg, I formed the impression that Hds more than 2TB had a higher percentage of customer complains; something like 20-30% gave them 1 star which in my mind meant a bigger risk with my data. Things may have changed since then.
Also, although I am a big fan of Western Digital, I remember going for the Samsung green version, although I don't remember why.

 
Samsung is now the bottom end brand for Seagate, has zero connection to Samsung and is probably my least favorite brand.  The Toshiba/HGST 3 Tb drives are not bad (The box will say Toshiba, the label will say HGST, as in Hitachi and neither company has anything to do with these anymore... all owned by WD these days). The Toshiba stuff generally has a 3 yr warranty and their 7200 rpm models are just a few bucks more than the WD Green 5400 rpm equivalents.  I have avoided all the 4 Tb drives.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Roku has shitty codec support and often needs transcoding to play stuff back, which Plex or Mediatomb will do on the fly.

XBMC's a much nicer product but doesn't transcode on the fly, so you need smarter players that will play all your codecs or you need to transcode everything ahead of time. You can use XBMC + Rokus if you transcode everything ahead of time, but you take a one-time quality hit when you do that and it's a moderate PITA.

(I use XBMC + WDTV Live SMP players and avoid transcoding).

 
Can some explain to me what people mean when they refer to transcoding on home media centers? I have codecs in my computer, when I play a movie on winamp, I ve got ffdshow and haali media splitter running. Is that transcoding? If yes, how do you transcode in advance? By having compressed the original dvd into an mkv/mp4 file to begin with?
 
Also, I casually browsed WDTV and Roku, so I won't pretend I know what they do exactly (although I have literally read this thread 3-4 times. From what I see, wdtv is a bit more expensive than Roku 3, but Roku 3 has the option to mirror your computer (XBMC included)I suppose that when it does that, all of the transcoding is done on the computer. OTOH, since I want to do a media center for my mom in europe, roku online services don't have too much value for me, but if WDTV is more expensive what would i be paying for on top of the theoretically more capable roku?

Also, if you re going to stream mkv files with 5-6 Mbps bitrate is an i5 such a need? Won't an i3 do?

 

[SumnerH]

Transcoding means converting from one encoding to another.  So compressing an h.264 encoded MKV into a divx AVI is transcoding.
 
It can be done on the fly: many media servers will recognize that your handheld can't play some coded, and will transcode it into something common like h.264 mpg with AAC audio and then stream that down the wire to your handheld, without the new encoding ever hitting the hard drive.  Only the original file is stored, but it's re-encoded every time you play it back (which takes CPU horsepower).
 
It can be done ahead of time: you can convert an mpg to an avi or whatever, and either store both versions of the file, or discard the old one.
 
Transcoding in general sucks because you lose some quality in the process.  And it's often dumb about additional streams (other languages, soft subtitles, director's commentary, etc),
 
Transcoding on the fly sucks for a couple of other reasons:
1. It takes a lot of CPU
2. It is encoding a file stream beginning to end, so seeking to arbitrary locations is often impossible (some systems have hacks for this) and FF/REW may be impossible as well depending on the server's speed and implementation.
 
OTOH it saves disk space over keeping multiple versions transcoded.
 
Roku 3 doesn't play as many codecs as the WDTV SMP Live does, so you more often will need to transcode or be careful about what codecs you use.
 
I don't know what "the option to mirror your computer" means--both WDTV and Roku devices can stream from XBMC or a SMB share on your computer quite capably.  XBMC is not capable of transcoding on the fly (that's the one place Plex is superior).
 
(I'm leaving remuxing out of the discussion for simplicity's sake)
 
 
Real world example: I have a ton of videos on my desktop.  We have a Roku, XBox One, PS3, WDTV, and a smart TV in the house.  I run XBMC on my desktop for watching things there; it also serves out to the various devices.  The WDTV can play everything that I have on my machine.  The others are all more limited--the XBox One plays maybe 90% of what I've got, the Roku maybe 75%, and the PS3 and smart TV are both extremely limited in what they'll play back.  The Roku can see the whole library, but when you go to play some files it'll pop up a "file type not supported" error message and refuse to play them.  The smart TV will try to play things it doesn't understand and crash completely.

 

[SumnerH]

Note that the Roku has offsetting features as well: unlike the WDTV, it'll play Amazon streaming video and some other sources.  So it really comes down to what you're using it for and what you need.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Thanks a lot for the answer. Give me some time to process it, because I am trying to wrap my head around it.
 
I will note that when I said that Roku 3 mirrors the computer, I meant it's mirroring what's on the screen. If it does that, it can't be transcoding, can it? I also don't need online services like Amazon or Netflix, because I am trying to find a solution for europe.

 

[SumnerH]

Ahh that mirroring thing is cool.  I'd have to see it in person to see if it's acceptable for quality video/audio playback or not (we have a Roku 3, but no Windows 8.1 desktop to test it from)

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Why? It only mirrors win 8.1?

 

[SumnerH]

Why? It only mirrors win 8.1?

http://support.roku.com/entries/56698214-Roku-screen-mirroring-compatible-devices claims so. Or Android 4.4.2 or later, but I've got nothing there I want to screencast.

 

[djhb20]

Might as well chime in here.

I have a pretty powerful (well, from 18 mos ago) windows PC hooked up to my main TV. It runs XBMC on a non-admin user which is almost always active. (I do switch to the other occasionally to rip BR and DVD to MKV files.)

All my video files (uncompressed MKVs) are stored on a synology NAS with a directory structure that that PC and my zoltec zboxes connected to the TVs in the bedroom and basement can access. They also run XBMC off of cheap USB keys running OpenElec. Everything work great in home.

But, as mentioned above, XBMC can't stream to mobile devices at home or on the road, so I recently started running a plex server (on the admin user of the main TV PC) which is always running and that reads the same directories as XBMC. They are completely compatible that way. So if I am on my phone or away from home, I can open up Plex and stream/download anything I want

The inter compatibly of plex and XBMC works out great that way. (Plex is an offshoot of an early version of XBMC).

Edits: mobile typos

 

[jayhoz]

Should I be concerned with H97 v. Z97 chipsets?  The H is $23 cheaper.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128721&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
 
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-Z97NWF&c=CJ

 

[Red Sox Physicist]

Should I be concerned with H97 v. Z97 chipsets?  The H is $23 cheaper.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128721&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
 
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-Z97NWF&c=CJ

 
The Z97 supports base clock overclocking and SLI/Crossfire for multiple GPUs, the H97 does not. Since those are both mini-ITX boards with one PCIe slot, you can't do multiple GPUs anyway. The only reason to get the Z87 over the H87 is if you plan on overclocking which is unlikely for a HTPC given the extra heat, noise and power usage associated with that. An H97 will be fine.

 

[jayhoz]

What is my best bet in terms of remotely accessing the HTPC as it will be headless?  I'd like to have full access to the PC inside and outside the local network from both another PC and Android.  I plan on using Win 7 on the HTPC.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Teamviewer and Remote Desktop?

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Ok, after considerable thought and googling, I ve concluded that what I want is an XBMC box connected to a shared network drive.
 
I assume the shared network drive on a computer which is on 24/7 won't be a problem, although I am not sure whether I should have XBMC or codecs installed on that computer ( noone is going to be watching anything there either way).
 
The xbmc box should be doing the transcoding on its own and should be as easy to use as possible.(thanks again to sumner for explaining transcoding to me). I ve done some research on them and i ve come across dozens. Two common threads I see is that the android on them doesn't work and that their remote controls suck.
 
However, you can flash them with linux and that turns them even more exclusively to xbmc boxes and that's fine by me. Moreover, I came across the xbox one remote control and I know that if I can pair it with flirc I can get it work with lirc on linux. Jayhoz you should look into it, it looks as the most elegant remote control out there.

I should note, that I ve never toyed with linux, but....
 

 
Anywho, does anyone had a good experience with an xbmc box or knows for a fact that it will play on its own all the codecs you will throw at it?

 

[SuperManny]

Ok, after considerable thought and googling, I ve concluded that what I want is an XBMC box connected to a shared network drive.
 
I assume the shared network drive on a computer which is on 24/7 won't be a problem, although I am not sure whether I should have XBMC or codecs installed on that computer ( noone is going to be watching anything there either way).
 
The xbmc box should be doing the transcoding on its own and should be as easy to use as possible.(thanks again to sumner for explaining transcoding to me). I ve done some research on them and i ve come across dozens. Two common threads I see is that the android on them doesn't work and that their remote controls suck.
 
However, you can flash them with linux and that turns them even more exclusively to xbmc boxes and that's fine by me. Moreover, I came across the xbox one remote control and I know that if I can pair it with flirc I can get it work with lirc on linux. Jayhoz you should look into it, it looks as the most elegant remote control out there.

I should note, that I ve never toyed with linux, but....
 

 
Anywho, does anyone had a good experience with an xbmc box or knows for a fact that it will play on its own all the codecs you will throw at it?

 
I have a similar setup at my house. 1 old PC that stores the data, 2 Amazon Fire TVs with android version of XBMC sideloaded, and several PCs with XBMC. I've never had any problems with codecs at all, its plays all of the different files types I've thrown at it. Setting it up isn't difficult but its not always straight forward and the customization is pretty much limitless. Luckily there is a large community behind it so there are a lot of resources available. The thing that took me the longest to get setup correctly was the backend mySQL database, which ensures that the library and watched list are shared between all devices. 

 

[SumnerH]

Anywho, does anyone had a good experience with an xbmc box or knows for a fact that it will play on its own all the codecs you will throw at it?

 
Depends on the hardware.  XBMC on raspberry pi and many embedded android devices has limited codec support.  On a standard desktop PC (even one in a fancy media case that looks like a PVR or whatever) it'll play anything you throw at it.  
 
You'll have to be more specific with what you mean by an "xbmc box".

 

[Nick Kaufman]

 
Depends on the hardware.  XBMC on raspberry pi and many embedded android devices has limited codec support.  On a standard desktop PC (even one in a fancy media case that looks like a PVR or whatever) it'll play anything you throw at it.  
 
You'll have to be more specific with what you mean by an "xbmc box".

 
From what I understand, beyond the streaming devices made by well known vendors such as Apple TV, Roku and Chromecast, there are small boxes made by Chinese companies which slap on the Android OS along with some apps, but most importantly an XBMC app.
 
If you go on amazon and use the keywords xbmc box, you will come across a good chunk of them. Here are a few that have caught my eye in multiple searches:
 
Matricom G-box MX2 Dual Core XBMC Android 4.2 TV Box + Special Edition XBMC
 
http://www.amazon.com/Matricom-G-Box-MX2-Android-Special/dp/B00GR30SW4/ref=sr_1_2?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1418346544&sr=1-2&keywords=xbmc&pebp=1418346545911
 
ANDROID TV BOX -FULLY LOADED XBMC -FULLY UNLOCKED
 
http://www.amazon.com/ANDROID--FULLY-LOADED-UNLOCKED-ANYTHING/dp/B00HVFLKD8/ref=sr_1_4?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1418346544&sr=1-4&keywords=xbmc&pebp=1418346618078
 
2014 SkyStreamX 4 Quad Core Android Smart TV Box - Android 4.4 & Gotham 13.1 XBMC Addons Preloaded
 
http://www.amazon.com/SkyStreamX-Quad-Core-Android-Box/dp/B00M03ULH2/ref=sr_1_5?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1418346544&sr=1-5&keywords=xbmc&pebp=1418346652627
 
ANDROID TV BOX -FULLY LOADED XBMC -FULLY UNLOCKED
 
http://www.amazon.com/ANDROID--FULLY-LOADED-UNLOCKED-ANYTHING/dp/B00HVFLKD8/ref=sr_1_4?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1418346544&sr=1-4&keywords=xbmc&pebp=1418346618078
 
XIOS DS Streaming Media Player for TVs (with XBMC capability)
 
http://www.amazon.com/XIOS-Streaming-Media-Player-capability/dp/B0088IGPM8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1418346678&sr=1-1&keywords=xbmc+xios&pebp=1418346680335
 
As you can see most of those devices make a point of putting xbmc on the title, that's why I am calling them XBMC boxes.
I would have no problem getting the WDTV, but from my understanding they don't have an xbmc app.

The reason I want this is because I am building this for my 80 year old mom who doesn't speak english and hasn't used a computer until 3 years ago. Even the simplest thing I ll throw at her is going to be a challenge, so I want to have XBMC preloaded and set up for her and hope it will be easy enough for her to use.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I have a similar setup at my house. 1 old PC that stores the data, 2 Amazon Fire TVs with android version of XBMC sideloaded, and several PCs with XBMC. I've never had any problems with codecs at all, its plays all of the different files types I've thrown at it. Setting it up isn't difficult but its not always straight forward and the customization is pretty much limitless. Luckily there is a large community behind it so there are a lot of resources available. The thing that took me the longest to get setup correctly was the backend mySQL database, which ensures that the library and watched list are shared between all devices.
 

 
Yeah, I ve heard good things about FireTV and XBMC; i ve got no need for an sql database; I will take a closer look, thanks.

 

[SuperManny]

 
Yeah, I ve heard good things about FireTV and XBMC; i ve got no need for an sql database; I will take a closer look, thanks.

 
I like the FireTV so far but I only really use it for XBMC which has to be side loaded unless you jailbreak it first. The android version of XBMC works well though.