Henry Owens

IpswichSox · Jul 18, 2013

Globe: Owens throws six no-hit innings for Salem.

Henry Owens, a 20-year-old lefthander for high Single A Salem, threw six no-hit innings at Frederick Wednesday night before leaving the game after 89 pitches.

Owens walked four and struck out 10. Only two balls left the infield.

Owens now has a 2.93 earned run average on the season. Over 92 innings, he has allowed 62 hits and struck out 107. Owens was a supplemental first-round draft pick in 2011.

ALiveH · Jul 19, 2013

time to start thinking about giving him a taste of AA sometime this year before he hits his innings limit? Ridiculous SP depth.

Snodgrass'Muff · Jul 19, 2013

He turns 21 in two days. It's probably a good idea to let him enjoy some sustained success in high-A for a while longer. I wouldn't be disappointed if they let him finish the year there. Despite his impressive strikeout rate, he still only has a 2.28 k/bb ratio. They should be focusing on getting his walks down, IMO. His raw stuff is exciting and his ceiling is front of the rotation, but he needs to get the walk rate down under 4 if he's ever going to approach that. He also has an unsustainable 6.1 h/9 which is suppressing his ERA.

JakeRae · Jul 19, 2013

I'm with Snod. Owens is a great prospect, but he has a lot to work on in terms of refining his control and command before he'll be ready to pitch in MLB. As such, there is no reason to promote aggressively. He's still walking more guys than he did last year and striking out fewer (with a promotion, so this isn't a criticism) and has trended in the wrong direction in terms of walking players lately. He should finish the season in Salem and will get his promotion to Portland at the start of next season.

If he doesn't improve his control/command over the offseason, I'd also expect him to endure some real struggles in AA as he, hopefully, figures it out.

Where I would disagree with Snod is that I'm not sure his h/9 is unsustainable at the level he is pitching at. It won't last as he climbs the ladder, but in the low minors, pitchers with Owens' stuff can be very successful at limiting hard contact and suppressing hits.

Snodgrass'Muff · Jul 19, 2013

I meant generally as he progresses through the minors. He's not going to sport a 6ish h/9 in Portland or Pawtucket... never mind Boston.

JakeRae · Jul 19, 2013

Snodgrass'Muff said:
I meant generally as he progresses through the minors. He's not going to sport a 6ish h/9 in Portland or Pawtucket... never mind Boston.

Agreed.

IpswichSox · Jul 22, 2013

Owens named Carolina League Pitcher of the Week (July 15-21).

Chris21 · Jul 31, 2013

promoted to Portland per Speier

Snodgrass'Muff · Jul 31, 2013

Wow... that seems aggressive. I know the ERA and strikeouts are both really impressive, but he's sporting a 4.59 bb/9 rate this year. He's thrown a few more innings than he did in Greenville last year, so maybe that is one of the driving factors, and the Sox have been aggressive with their top prospects in the past but I would have liked to see him develop better command before hitting Portland. Maybe that will be one of their major goals for him before a Pawtucket promotion.

Brianish · Jul 31, 2013

I wonder if part of the thinking is that he hasn't been burned for his walks because he can so easily strike out high A hitters. The Sox have suggested that they like their prospects to struggle at some point in their progression so they have to adjust. Maybe they figure the best way to pressure Owens to work on control is to put him in a position where it affects his results.

rodderick · Jul 31, 2013

Snodgrass'Muff said:
Wow... that seems aggressive. I know the ERA and strikeouts are both really impressive, but he's sporting a 4.59 bb/9 rate this year. He's thrown a few more innings than he did in Greenville last year, so maybe that is one of the driving factors, and the Sox have been aggressive with their top prospects in the past but I would have liked to see him develop better command before hitting Portland. Maybe that will be one of their major goals for him before a Pawtucket promotion.

His H/9 is ridiculously low, guys simply can't put the bat on his pitches. Command is still an issue for Owens, but A+ batters simply aren't challenging him enough to drive improvement on that aspect of his game. When you can strike out nearly 11 guys per nine innings without great control, there isn't much incentive for you to attack the strikezone.

Snodgrass'Muff · Jul 31, 2013

rodderick said:
His H/9 is ridiculously low, guys simply can't put the bat on his pitches. Command is still an issue for Owens, but A+ batters simply aren't challenging him enough to drive improvement on that aspect of his game. When you can strike out nearly 11 guys per nine innings without great control, there isn't much incentive for you to attack the strikezone.

This is a good point. His h/9 will jump in Portland. It may have been unsustainable long term in Salem, even. If he can learn to avoid the walk he's going to be scary good. Hopefully this promotion kicks him in the ass and gets him moving in that direction. I'm pretty sure he could sustain an 8 or greater k/9 at the major league level right now. His stuff is that good. The walks and a normalized hit rate would kill him, but his strikeout stuff is just phenomenal.

Brianish · Aug 9, 2013

Article in the Providence Journal about the progress Owens has made with his curveball. Really exciting, even if taken with a grain of salt.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130808-top-prospect-henry-owens-getting-silly-swings-with-newly-refined-curveball.ece

Sprowl · Aug 9, 2013

Brianish said:
Article in the Providence Journal about the progress Owens has made with his curveball. Really exciting, even if taken with a grain of salt.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130808-top-prospect-henry-owens-getting-silly-swings-with-newly-refined-curveball.ece

Here is an interesting detail from brimac's article:

Owens has spent the season tinkering with a variety of curveball grips. He started with both his index and middle fingers on the ball to generate spin, but because he has such large hands, he discovered he could get away with just having his middle finger on the ball and lifting his index finger off it. That's allowed him to command the pitch -- and to maintain his deceptive arm speed.

Randy Johnson's height with Pedro Martinez' hands, and he throws something like a knuckle curve.

OttoC · Aug 9, 2013

As a loose rule-of-thumb, pitchers with "advanced" curve balls have a tendency to do well at lower levels because the average batter down there isn't accustomed to seeing the pitch. Double-A is the level that starts separating the men from the boys, so to speak; where pitchers who thrived with their curveball start finding batters who can handle it and batters who weren't troubled by pedestrian curveballs start have trouble with pitchers who can really throw them.

Note: I'm not saying that Owens is excelling because of his curveball but it may partly explain his low H/9 number.

valentinscycle · Aug 10, 2013

Got a chance to see Owens in his first outing at Hadlock tonight. He was yanked after 4 because of a pitch count in the 90s (I assume), and there was some bad mixed with the good, but still, he was fun to watch.

The good: that curve is as advertised. It was getting oohs and aahs from the sections behind the plate, and nobody put a good swing on it. He was able to spot it on both sides of the plate, and he threw it at various points in the count. It's a big, slow (70-72) one, but not at all gently rolling-- it really looked like he was snapping it off, and it got ridiculous swings. 8 Ks in 4, all of them (as far as I could tell) directly because of the curve.

The bad: he seemed to have no fastball command tonight. A few got rocked, and mostly it led to him being behind in the count, leading to the high pitch count. And when he got in a bit of trouble he became really, really deliberate (despite being spotted with a 4-run lead in the 1st)-- he slowed the game way down. He battled back from a few 3-1 counts but did so by abandoning the fastball entirely.

But the breaking stuff was most definitely there. His delivery seems pretty easy and fluid (although that leg kick is pretty high), and even if he seems not to come at lefties with the kind of severe angle a 6'7" kid could, those curves were just dropping off the table.

Snodgrass'Muff · Aug 14, 2013

Soxprospects.com has a new piece up about him.

Owens has had a strong season and established himself as one of the top arms in the system, and one of the top left-handed pitching prospects in all of baseball. Out of all of the arms in the Red Sox system I’ve seen this year, Owens might have the highest floor as even if the fastball doesn’t progress, he still has the potential for two plus secondary pitches and would fit nicely in the back end of a major league rotation. If the fastball takes a step forward, however, and he refines his command and secondaries, there is the potential for him to be a solid mid-rotation starter.

news.soxprospects.com/2013/08/scouting-scratch-henry-owens.html

They also have him ahead of Webster as the top pitching prospect in the system right now, number 4 overall. I'd be curious to see if he's continued to rise in the eyes of people like Law, Sickels, ect... It's going to be interesting seeing where he starts the 2014 season in the rankings. He's had a ridiculous ascent over 2013.

JimBoSox9 · Aug 14, 2013

The interesting thing is that the text of the article itself doesn't reflect the high ranking; mainly due to a very bearish view on Owens' fastball. Reminds me a bit of Buchholz the prospect; two sexy secondary pitches but a fastball that might be problematic establishing effectively enough to make the junk play. The author does note that other reports on Owens have seen a better heater than he showed that night. Personally I think there's little question his frame has at least 2-3MPH of growth still in it. I haven't seen enough to say for sure, but the signs could reasonably indicate he's overthrowing his FB today (no late life, inconsistent slot, late-inning velo drop); that would wonderful because it means simple growth should help with some of those ancillary issues as well.

Fred in Lynn · Aug 18, 2013

Friday night in Harrisburg: 5.0 IP/0H/3BB/10K

OttoC · Aug 18, 2013

I looked at the play-by-play for his three Double-A games and found he struck out 29 of the 47 batters he faced (21 swinging) and three of the eight hits he allowed were of the infield variety.

rodderick · Aug 18, 2013

Snodgrass'Muff said:
Soxprospects.com has a new piece up about him.

news.soxprospects.com/2013/08/scouting-scratch-henry-owens.html

They also have him ahead of Webster as the top pitching prospect in the system right now, number 4 overall. I'd be curious to see if he's continued to rise in the eyes of people like Law, Sickels, ect... It's going to be interesting seeing where he starts the 2014 season in the rankings. He's had a ridiculous ascent over 2013.

I really dislike this SoxProspects write up on Owens. You mean to tell me that if everything breaks right for him, he develops fastball command AND his secondary offerings improve, he could maybe, someday, be a middle of the rotation starter? I don't think there is any way a guy with this kind of stuff and ability to miss bats should have a "number 3" ceiling. I'd agree if that was his projection, but his ceiling? But, once again, I'm sure all these guys have A TON more expertise in scouting players than I do, so maybe I should just shut the fuck up.

Brianish · Aug 18, 2013

That's his original blurb iirc. SoxProspects can take a while to update their write-ups, usually just at the beginning/end of the year; so this year's success wouldn't be taken into account. I expect most scouts would put him at a #2 ceiling after this year, especially if he can improve a few things.

Edit - Though I guess improving a few things is implicit in the idea of a ceiling, so that was kind of redundant.

canderson · Aug 18, 2013

OttoC said:
I looked at the play-by-play for his three Double-A games and found he struck out 29 of the 47 batters he faced (21 swinging) and three of the eight hits he allowed were of the infield variety.

Saw him Friday, he had a ton a ton of swings/misses and foul balls. There was never any good contact off him, no sharp line drives or any special defense needed. He was crazy wild but after 25 or so pitches he was constantly locating his pitches perfectly. I was very impressed, didn't know anything about him really prior to that game.

rodderick · Aug 18, 2013

Brianish said:
That's his original blurb iirc. SoxProspects can take a while to update their write-ups, usually just at the beginning/end of the year; so this year's success wouldn't be taken into account. I expect most scouts would put him at a #2 ceiling after this year, especially if he can improve a few things.

Edit - Though I guess improving a few things is implicit in the idea of a ceiling, so that was kind of redundant.

Chris Hatfield from SoxProspects posted on Twitter a few days ago that he still sees Owens as a guy with a "number 3" ceiling, so I guess that description on the site is still applicable.

Granite Sox · Aug 18, 2013

rodderick said:
Chris Hatfield from SoxProspects posted on Twitter a few days ago that he still sees Owens as a guy with a "number 3" ceiling, so I guess that description on the site is still applicable.

SP.com consistently repeats this position primarily due to his wildness. Part of the logic is that advanced AA/AAA/ML hitters will lay off over time and take the walks. I'm surmising they're maintaining this position (even with his crazy K rates in AA so far) because he's still in the honeymoon period at the new level and they tend to rate guys' ceiling very conservatively in general.

JimBoSox9 · Aug 18, 2013

Jeez, someone find this guy a league that can touch him so can finally realize what all this 'throwing strikes' nonsense means.

Zedia · Aug 18, 2013

That link is an article from four days ago. And he was talking about his floor, not his ceiling.

"Out of all of the arms in the Red Sox system Ive seen this year, Owens might have the highest floor as even if the fastball doesnt progress, he still has the potential for two plus secondary pitches and would fit nicely in the back end of a major league rotation. If the fastball takes a step forward, however, and he refines his command and secondaries, there is the potential for him to be a solid mid-rotation starter."

Edit - I guess it's confusing enough to be taken either way.

djhb20 · Aug 18, 2013

OttoC said:
I looked at the play-by-play for his three Double-A games and found he struck out 29 of the 47 batters he faced (21 swinging) and three of the eight hits he allowed were of the infield variety.

I think you counted wrong. I think it's 29 of 61. According to the box scores, at least, he's faced 25, 17 and 19 guys in his 3 AA starts.

Regardless, it's insane, and as I said in the September promotion threads, if it keeps up, the FO would be remiss if they weren't considering using out of the pen at the end of the year. I don't think it will happen, but it's worked for other teams in the past.

JimBoSox9 · Aug 18, 2013

No way they can use Owens in the pen down the stretch. The control just isn't there for putting him to be anything but risky, and they'll go to a couple of the AAA guys for long relief/mop-up duty first.

OttoC · Aug 18, 2013

djhb20 said:
I think you counted wrong. I think it's 29 of 61. According to the box scores, at least, he's faced 25, 17 and 19 guys in his 3 AA starts.

Regardless, it's insane, and as I said in the September promotion threads, if it keeps up, the FO would be remiss if they weren't considering using out of the pen at the end of the year. I don't think it will happen, but it's worked for other teams in the past.

You are correct. Back of envelope: I was counting both Ks and PAs and managed to add the Ks for one game in place of the PAs for that game.

Plympton91 · Aug 19, 2013

Some quotes from Owens in this article from MiLB

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?content_id=57268270&fext=.jsp&sid=milb&vkey=news_milb&ymd=20130817

Super Nomario · Aug 28, 2013

Interesting article that suggests Owens' performance doesn't match his stuff: http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/08/28/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-the-challenge-of-scouting-and-projecting-henry-owens-steven-wright-locked-in-jose-vinicios-horrific-season/

" cannot figure out how his numbers are so good compared to his stuff. [He] has good deception to his fastball (88-92 mph) with average life. He throws his fastball 90 percent of the time and he gets strikeouts with it. Change was solid (78-80 mph) as usual and he throws that soft curveball (67-73 mph) that rolls. Hitters must not pick up the ball. He had no strikeouts in the first three innings and had some loud outs, and then I look up at the end of the night and he has a two-hitter with six strikeouts. I give him credit.”

...

“He’s a two-pitch guy — fastball/change — right now. A back-end starter,” said the evaluator, who felt that Owens looked like a No. 4 or No. 5 starter. “I don’t see the power stuff for the top of the rotation but he keeps getting guys out.”

EDIT: there's some complimentary stuff, too, but I thought the negative take was interesting because I hadn't heard it. It also lends some context to the #3 starter evaluation earlier in this thread.

OttoC · Aug 28, 2013

Super Nomario said:
Interesting article that suggests Owens' performance doesn't match his stuff: http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/08/28/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-the-challenge-of-scouting-and-projecting-henry-owens-steven-wright-locked-in-jose-vinicios-horrific-season/

EDIT: there's some complimentary stuff, too, but I thought the negative take was interesting because I hadn't heard it. It also lends some context to the #3 starter evaluation earlier in this thread.

I noted something similar in the game thread on his last start as I kept seeing 90 mph pitches and that his 67 mph pitch wasn't doing much but his 78 mph pitch was effective. I also noted that 5 of his 6 Ks resulted in the batter eithre being thrown out at first or being tagged out by the catcher.

Savin Hillbilly · Jan 23, 2014

Obviously the Kershaw comparison is not to be taken at face value, but this is still a fun and encouraging read:

Teammate on Henry Owens: "I think he's the next Kershaw"

Really liked the final part about what he learned from Barnes, Ranaudo and Workman about weight training. It speaks well of all parties.

uncannymanny · Apr 4, 2014

Owens with a stellar start to his 2014 AA campaign, no-hitting Reading through 6 innings of a rain shortened game.

IP H R BB SO
6 0 0 2 9

I almost feel like this kid isn't real.

LondonSox · Apr 4, 2014

That'll do pig.

Merkle's Boner · Apr 4, 2014

I really think we could see him leapfrog a few of the AAA guys this year. His stuff seems to play better. If he can harness it, a big if I understand, I see no reason why he can't be in Pawtucket by July. That will put some pressure on Webster et.al.

RedOctober3829 · Apr 4, 2014

Not a terrible start to the season.

AbbyNoho · Apr 5, 2014

IpswichSox said:
Globe: Owens throws six no-hit innings for Salem.

I saw this after clicking on this thread and though you just got the name of the city wrong, but then I realized the post was from a year ago. He likes throwing 6 inning no-hitters, huh?

Merkle's Boner · Apr 10, 2014

“(Owens) has competed really well out there in his two outings,” said Portland Manager Billy McMillon. “Guys are in Double-A for a reason, and there’s still a lot of development there and maturing. Suffice it to say, I think he has a lot of upside. You could close your eyes and see him pitching at higher levels, but he’ll get there when he gets there. If he keeps having outings like this, he’ll probably open up some more dialogue about what’s going to happen a month from now.”

Pretty bold statement by Billy McMillon, HO's Portland Manager. How soon could we see him in Pawtucket?

SouthernBoSox · Apr 10, 2014

Merkle's Boner said:
“(Owens) has competed really well out there in his two outings,” said Portland Manager Billy McMillon. “Guys are in Double-A for a reason, and there’s still a lot of development there and maturing. Suffice it to say, I think he has a lot of upside. You could close your eyes and see him pitching at higher levels, but he’ll get there when he gets there. If he keeps having outings like this, he’ll probably open up some more dialogue about what’s going to happen a month from now.”

Pretty bold statement by Billy McMillon, HO's Portland Manager. How soon could we see him in Pawtucket?

A month from now.

Madmartigan · Apr 10, 2014

For the record, start #2: 6 2/3 IP, 6 hits, 0 runs, 0 BB and 9 Ks

LondonSox · Apr 10, 2014

Well the only issue with Owens was proving it at a higher level and control.
The former usually highlights the latter. So if he keeps going like this then really the sky is the limit

uncannymanny · Apr 10, 2014

Is that a 0 K/BB? I can't wait to see this kid in Boston.

swiftaw · Apr 10, 2014

uncannymanny said:
Is that a 0 K/BB? I can't wait to see this kid in Boston.

Surely it would be infinity, not 0.

uncannymanny · Apr 10, 2014

In a true mathematical sense it's neither I was just making a (poor) joke.

Merkle's Boner · Apr 10, 2014

Nice writeup by Speier. The Cherington quotes make it sound likely that he is not long for AA and in fact made me believe we could see him in Boston sooner rather than later.

“There’s some things for him to do still at the minor league level, despite the start he’s off to, and he knows that,” Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said on WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan show on Thursday morning. “He got a little taste of Double-A last year. We started him there this year. We wanted to give him at least a few more starts there. There’s probably going to be some Triple-A time in his future before he sees the big leagues. … He’s a guy we think can be a major part of our rotation moving forward, so we want to be careful that we finish off his development as much as we possibly can.”

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/04/10/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-how-long-until-henry-owens-is-in-triple-a-manuel-margot-breaks-out-salems-streak-ends/

Rasputin · Apr 11, 2014

Merkle's Boner said:
Nice writeup by Speier. The Cherington quotes make it sound likely that he is not long for AA and in fact made me believe we could see him in Boston sooner rather than later.

“There’s some things for him to do still at the minor league level, despite the start he’s off to, and he knows that,” Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said on WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan show on Thursday morning. “He got a little taste of Double-A last year. We started him there this year. We wanted to give him at least a few more starts there. There’s probably going to be some Triple-A time in his future before he sees the big leagues. … He’s a guy we think can be a major part of our rotation moving forward, so we want to be careful that we finish off his development as much as we possibly can.”

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/04/10/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-how-long-until-henry-owens-is-in-triple-a-manuel-margot-breaks-out-salems-streak-ends/

Fast Forward to 2015 Spring Training where he's competing with Allen Webster and Workman for the last spot in the rotation and Workman and de la Rosa end up in the major league pen.

I can't wait for the next ten years. Someone's gonna look up about fourteen months from now and notice that our shortstop, center fielder, catcher, third baseman, and half the pitching staff are home grown, 27 or under, and oh by the way, pretty damn good.

And I have this fantasy. It may mean I am a horrible, horrible person, but Ellsbury gets moved to leadoff and in Derek Jeter's last game in the bigs, Ells is on first with two outs in the ninth and decides to steal because why the fuck not, the guy behind the plate is just a rookie.

And Christian Vazquez throws him out by five feet ending what would have been Jeter's last plate appearance in the majors and making all of Yankeedom hate him forever.

LogansDad · Apr 11, 2014

Sports on Earth chimes in: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/71607602/red-sox-pitching-prospect-henry-owens-is-living-up-to-the-hype?partnerId=as_mlb_20140411_21756114

Some stuff in there about his interactions with Swihart as well.

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