Has the "Twilight of the Patriots’ Dynasty" Finally Arrived?
- Thread starter Van Everyman
- Start date
Curran with a piece on Belichick that addresses a lot of the non-Brady issues:
http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/is-new-england-patriots-coach-bill-belichick-listening-anyone-anymore
This article boils down to "we speculated a few years that maybe Belichick isn't listening to anybody. Well that turned out to be wrong and they've had tremendous success since ... but maybe NOW he's not listening to anybody." There is zero in here. The whole premise of the 2009 thing is he lost his veteran coaches, but now he has a veteran coaching staff minus Patricia. To call it "baseless" isn't strong enough.
I guess you could call it the "Twilight" of the Patriots dynasty in that Brady seems to be an ageless sexy vampire who's very particular about his diet
I'm not so sure. Curran and Phil Perry did a podcast with Jerod Mayo discussing this, and one point that was brought up was that the current staff largely owe their careers to Belichick. That is definitely a different dynamic than him bringing together a staff of guys like Weis and Crennel from elsewhere. I'm not saying that nobody speaks up around Bill but it is worth questioning if there is too much deference at times.
As an example - do people really believe that Matt Patricia was in complete 100 percent lockstep on the Butler benching and shared the HC's belief that he wouldn't have helped at any point in the game? I don't. I think if you injected Patricia with truth serum, there's an excellent chance that he'd admit that he would have put Butler in the game at some point during the second half to see if it would have helped. Maybe he passionately argued this with Belichick and was turned down and Patricia was being a good subordinate and didn't let the world see their internal disagreement. All we know is, there was zero evidence of a disagreement between the two even as the secondary was being repeatedly toasted by the Eagles. Mayo stated on the podcast that he believed Patricia likely knew that Belichick was dead set on this decision and wouldn't have fought him on this. In light of what we saw, I would have felt better if the team's defensive coordinator had the nerve to push the head coach at times like this.
How do you know he didn't push on the Butler issue? Remember, Patricia admitted that he pushed BB to take a time out at the end of the Seattle Super Bowl. BB chose not to do so. Pushing isn't the same as getting one's way.
This is a good point. Sometimes the answer is no. The HC is the ultimate decision maker.
But there’s an in between here. Perhaps if the DC was a more senior guy who had enjoyed some career success prior to joining the Pats, Belichick would think more about rejecting his suggestions than he would with a coach, albeit an uncommonly bright one, whose coaching diapers he had changed. Maybe Bill himself knew that benching Butler was an extreme measure and if Accomplished Coach X was saying it, he would have thought more about taking the advice. And maybe such a coach would have been more forceful in making his point.
All that said, I’m glad that Flores is getting the promotion in role, if not name. Still, I think that having a more senior outsider as an assistant head coach or in some other on field role would be useful.
None of this makes it less baseless. As a topic for idle message board speculation, whatever, but Curran should be embarrassed to post that trash article.
The "current staff largely ow[ing] their careers to Belichick" has been true since Weis and Crennel left in 2005. It was true during Mayo's entire career. So I'm not sure what is new here.
For all we know, Patricia was the one pushing for Butler to be benched and talked Bill out of putting him back in. None of us have any idea. At the end of the day, all decisions are on Belichick because that's how the organization is structured, but the behind-the-scenes machinations are 0% proof, 100% speculation.
How soon people forget that NFL films from earlier in McDaniels career (while diapers still being changed) where Belichick and listens... then immediately shoots down McDaniel's ide... no wait... he patiently waited... listened and goes "great idea".
Do your job 1 or that one from the famous "I just can't get them to play"(maybe the football life one?)
Do your job 1 or that one from the famous "I just can't get them to play"(maybe the football life one?)
So, here we are at the beginning of free agency. At present:
But all signs seem to point to something seeming amiss with the Pats right now. Even normally insightful and level-headed beat writers like Tom E. Curran are writing doom-laden pieces about Brady's future and openly questioning whether Belichick is tuning people out. And stalwart posters like @dcmissle periodically seem like they are on suicide watch.
What is going on? Is anything going on? If not, why is there such an air of dissatisfaction about everything with this team?
- The team is watching the biggest exodus of still-useful players in recent memory -- Malcolm Butler, Dion Lewis, Danny Amendola and Nate Solder all signing elsewhere in free agency.
- Almost no one is coming to the team in free agency -- aside from re-upping a few special teasers, there are few difference-makers the team seems to be in on.
- Rob Gronkowski's future is still unclear -- he may want to retire or is perhaps trying to leverage a bigger deal.
- Tom Brady is "in no hurry to help the team" financially, according to Bedard, when asked about Brady restructuring.
But all signs seem to point to something seeming amiss with the Pats right now. Even normally insightful and level-headed beat writers like Tom E. Curran are writing doom-laden pieces about Brady's future and openly questioning whether Belichick is tuning people out. And stalwart posters like @dcmissle periodically seem like they are on suicide watch.
What is going on? Is anything going on? If not, why is there such an air of dissatisfaction about everything with this team?
I'll give sort of a "glass half full" answer to the post, although most of this is speculation from someone who thinks the media is often wrong when it comes to all things Patriots.
The free agency issue is real, in that the Pats are in a cap/player squeeze, and that squeeze happened to coincide with a season that quite a few teams had gobs of cap space. Beyond the current crop of UFA's, the team has to be looking at 2019 when Cooks, Hogan, Gillislee, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers, Geno Grissom, McClellin, Chung, Rowe, Ghost and Allen all come up. While many of them will be allowed to leave, the spots they leave behind still need to be filled. However, the Patriots do sometimes sit out the feeding frenzy at the start of free agency, and so I still think it's way too early to put any sort of grade on their free agent class until the 2nd tier guys start signing on in the next few weeks.
Brady's past contract restructurings have occurred at different times of the year (March, May, September). And there may not be any way to reduce Brady's 2018 cap number. There's a $7M in amortized signing bonus from the last restructure that stays regardless, and given where Brady is in his career, it's unlikely he's going to accept anything less of a guarantee than the $30M in salary and roster bonuses due him in 2018 and 2019, especially after winning his 3rd MVP award. This is yet another example of why retaining both Brady and JG in 2018 was a complete and utter fantasy. Bottom line is that any restructuring is going to be complicated, and it may be in both parties best interest to wait until the next crop of free agents are brought in anyway. Finally, IIRC, Kraft does get involved in the Brady contract talks, so take that for whatever it's worth.
I know Curran has been uncharacteristically on the doomsday bandwagon now for a while, but I'm still not sure if there's anything real to see there, or if it's just an overreaction to a tough Super Bowl loss, combined with a media driven narrative of Bill running amok making everyone unhappy. Curran does seem to be reading a lot more into the final Tom vs Time episode than what's there. All of the so-called smoke this offseason may not be anything more than a difficult cap situation, a complicated contract negotiation, and a player (Gronk) still coming to terms with the fact that he suffered yet another serious injury playing the sport he loves.
On the concerning side, there are some eerie parallels to the last time a local sports team with the GOAT player lost a tough final series to a team from Philly, and that's the 1974 Bruins: said GOAT was literally on his last legs (although we didn't know it at the time), aging and sometimes disgruntled supporting cast, unproductive drafts, key player defections, and rumored friction inside the front office (which turned out to be true, as B's coach Guidolin was thankfully fired after the loss).
The free agency issue is real, in that the Pats are in a cap/player squeeze, and that squeeze happened to coincide with a season that quite a few teams had gobs of cap space. Beyond the current crop of UFA's, the team has to be looking at 2019 when Cooks, Hogan, Gillislee, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers, Geno Grissom, McClellin, Chung, Rowe, Ghost and Allen all come up. While many of them will be allowed to leave, the spots they leave behind still need to be filled. However, the Patriots do sometimes sit out the feeding frenzy at the start of free agency, and so I still think it's way too early to put any sort of grade on their free agent class until the 2nd tier guys start signing on in the next few weeks.
Brady's past contract restructurings have occurred at different times of the year (March, May, September). And there may not be any way to reduce Brady's 2018 cap number. There's a $7M in amortized signing bonus from the last restructure that stays regardless, and given where Brady is in his career, it's unlikely he's going to accept anything less of a guarantee than the $30M in salary and roster bonuses due him in 2018 and 2019, especially after winning his 3rd MVP award. This is yet another example of why retaining both Brady and JG in 2018 was a complete and utter fantasy. Bottom line is that any restructuring is going to be complicated, and it may be in both parties best interest to wait until the next crop of free agents are brought in anyway. Finally, IIRC, Kraft does get involved in the Brady contract talks, so take that for whatever it's worth.
I know Curran has been uncharacteristically on the doomsday bandwagon now for a while, but I'm still not sure if there's anything real to see there, or if it's just an overreaction to a tough Super Bowl loss, combined with a media driven narrative of Bill running amok making everyone unhappy. Curran does seem to be reading a lot more into the final Tom vs Time episode than what's there. All of the so-called smoke this offseason may not be anything more than a difficult cap situation, a complicated contract negotiation, and a player (Gronk) still coming to terms with the fact that he suffered yet another serious injury playing the sport he loves.
On the concerning side, there are some eerie parallels to the last time a local sports team with the GOAT player lost a tough final series to a team from Philly, and that's the 1974 Bruins: said GOAT was literally on his last legs (although we didn't know it at the time), aging and sometimes disgruntled supporting cast, unproductive drafts, key player defections, and rumored friction inside the front office (which turned out to be true, as B's coach Guidolin was thankfully fired after the loss).
Watching sausage being made is not a great idea. This is an annual ritual — most fans of every team that is not active on the buy side, whether via FA or trades, on days 1 and 2, are anxious.
Some of the deals struck so far have been reasonable, but there are some notable splurges I’d want no part of, Solder and Watkins being two prominent examples.
There is no suicide watch. It is what it is — they’ve been hurt by other teams’ ability and willingness to spend, and by the fact that their recent drafts have not been greatly productive. They have limited resources and very little if any margin for error given their stipulated annual goal — to win the SB.
And that’s just what’s within their control: if Jax or some other team gets materially better, that’s tough for us. In that connection, both Philadelphia and Houston have phenomenally talented QBs on rookie deals and otherwise strong, well coached teams. And both are likely to be better.
I don’t assume the worst — uh oh, Gronk’s gonna retire — and I don’t assume the best either — Gracia’s gonna slide right in at LT; Jules will be better than new. Even keel.
Could not care less about the off field drama usually reliable Curran has been writing about. There’s no way of quantifying it from a W-L standpoint, and I’m focused on “18.
Some of the deals struck so far have been reasonable, but there are some notable splurges I’d want no part of, Solder and Watkins being two prominent examples.
There is no suicide watch. It is what it is — they’ve been hurt by other teams’ ability and willingness to spend, and by the fact that their recent drafts have not been greatly productive. They have limited resources and very little if any margin for error given their stipulated annual goal — to win the SB.
And that’s just what’s within their control: if Jax or some other team gets materially better, that’s tough for us. In that connection, both Philadelphia and Houston have phenomenally talented QBs on rookie deals and otherwise strong, well coached teams. And both are likely to be better.
I don’t assume the worst — uh oh, Gronk’s gonna retire — and I don’t assume the best either — Gracia’s gonna slide right in at LT; Jules will be better than new. Even keel.
Could not care less about the off field drama usually reliable Curran has been writing about. There’s no way of quantifying it from a W-L standpoint, and I’m focused on “18.
My glass half empty speculation is as follows.
I see Bill as having made a "Grand Bargain" with this players.
Play for me, subjugate yourself to a large extent, deal with the media like a Stepford Patriot, work extremely hard and endure a mentally tough environment, all in exchange for being on a team that invariably has a good chance to win the SB and will be lead by a HC/GM that will make great decisions for the most part and will not make dumbass moves that make winning much tougher.
That formula has worked for years and guys have been willing to toe the line while Bill, in turn, has routinely made good decisions, albeit not always ones that everyone agrees with. No doubt, having Tom Brady at the helm aided that, but still, Bill is a brilliant HC and GM, and has been universally regarded by everyone other than moronic Cheatriot types.
While I am not suggesting open revolt or a Tom Jackson type reaction, I was worried in the aftermath of the SB and continue to worry that the level of commitment Bill demands will be harder to get from players in the wake of the truly inexplicable set of decisions around the Bulter benching. We can defer on the decision not to start Malcom. Not adjusting and leaving two players out of position when the D was getting shredded and a starting corner was available but unused? I can't make an argument for it. I have read folks talk about having rules and not breaking them for the moment, etc., but I don't know, I think the moment in the later phases of SB 52 called out for an exception to whatever the particular rule was.
I can make sense of Lewis and Solder leaving rather easily. Big pay days. Butler was gone by some time in the second quarter of the SB, if not before. Amendola is a bummer because I think he was a special, clutch player on this team and with that QB. But even there, a good case can be made that he was maxing his value in his last big payday, and BB could not afford to match or even come close enough. Your mileage will vary on that one. It bothers me a lot and I wonder if the Butler thing made it harder for him to take a discount, but I understand that there are good counter arguments.
But after watching Tom on FB, watching him on the recent talk shows, reading his and Gronk's comments on instagram, and reading the many former Pats players' comments regarding Butler, I think it's at least a question whether Bill will have this team in his control to the extent that he once did. Before this year, we did not see Pats talking so openly about being FREE and HAPPY. What that actually means, I don't know, but it's new, I think.
I don't think it's just down to Butler, though I do think making a series of decisions that arguably cost guys a ring is a very tough thing to recover from. Pete Carroll and Bill are not the same guy and have very different pedigrees, but Poodle Pete did win a SB and got his team to the brink of another one, and I think an argument could be made that he never really got all his players to fully believe in him after he eschewed the run. Richard Sherman, for one, never seemed to get back on board and was pretty outspoken about his feelings. Again, I know that there are differences between them (five rings versus one, to start) but I think there is some risk that Bill wont be able to get guys to do what they did before.
Other factors could be players just wearing down over time, the fact that with time, some coaches get tuned out, the petty looking Alex G decisions, and seemingly getting less than full value for Jimmy G.
To be sure, I think it's entirely possible that all of this will blow over and that Bill will have the team FULLY in his control and we'll be back to 12-4, 13-3 and a SB birth. No one should be shocked if what always happens, happens again.
But the recent decisions, when combined with the already existing challenge presented by team building in the salary cap/parity era, could contribute to the end being near.
I know that many will say that there's nothing to worry about, these kinds of doubts come up every year, and will point to other decisions Bill made that did not result in any slippage whatsoever. Burkhead and Ebner re-upping are positive signs. A guy like Jordy Nelson seemingly wants in. Sherman wanted in.
But, still, the present circumstances seem different to me and we have never been in an environment where a good amount of people thought the HC's decision making played a key role in a SB loss. That is virgin territory for this team. Yeah, people had issues with the 4th and 13 call in SB 42 but that was on a long list of things that went wrong that day. If David Tyree doesn't....blech. Here, the Bulter call is the first factor on the minds of many as to why they lost. Whether that's fair or right is irrelevant in that the perception is there and I would be surprised if it's not shared by a bunch of the players.
I see Bill as having made a "Grand Bargain" with this players.
Play for me, subjugate yourself to a large extent, deal with the media like a Stepford Patriot, work extremely hard and endure a mentally tough environment, all in exchange for being on a team that invariably has a good chance to win the SB and will be lead by a HC/GM that will make great decisions for the most part and will not make dumbass moves that make winning much tougher.
That formula has worked for years and guys have been willing to toe the line while Bill, in turn, has routinely made good decisions, albeit not always ones that everyone agrees with. No doubt, having Tom Brady at the helm aided that, but still, Bill is a brilliant HC and GM, and has been universally regarded by everyone other than moronic Cheatriot types.
While I am not suggesting open revolt or a Tom Jackson type reaction, I was worried in the aftermath of the SB and continue to worry that the level of commitment Bill demands will be harder to get from players in the wake of the truly inexplicable set of decisions around the Bulter benching. We can defer on the decision not to start Malcom. Not adjusting and leaving two players out of position when the D was getting shredded and a starting corner was available but unused? I can't make an argument for it. I have read folks talk about having rules and not breaking them for the moment, etc., but I don't know, I think the moment in the later phases of SB 52 called out for an exception to whatever the particular rule was.
I can make sense of Lewis and Solder leaving rather easily. Big pay days. Butler was gone by some time in the second quarter of the SB, if not before. Amendola is a bummer because I think he was a special, clutch player on this team and with that QB. But even there, a good case can be made that he was maxing his value in his last big payday, and BB could not afford to match or even come close enough. Your mileage will vary on that one. It bothers me a lot and I wonder if the Butler thing made it harder for him to take a discount, but I understand that there are good counter arguments.
But after watching Tom on FB, watching him on the recent talk shows, reading his and Gronk's comments on instagram, and reading the many former Pats players' comments regarding Butler, I think it's at least a question whether Bill will have this team in his control to the extent that he once did. Before this year, we did not see Pats talking so openly about being FREE and HAPPY. What that actually means, I don't know, but it's new, I think.
I don't think it's just down to Butler, though I do think making a series of decisions that arguably cost guys a ring is a very tough thing to recover from. Pete Carroll and Bill are not the same guy and have very different pedigrees, but Poodle Pete did win a SB and got his team to the brink of another one, and I think an argument could be made that he never really got all his players to fully believe in him after he eschewed the run. Richard Sherman, for one, never seemed to get back on board and was pretty outspoken about his feelings. Again, I know that there are differences between them (five rings versus one, to start) but I think there is some risk that Bill wont be able to get guys to do what they did before.
Other factors could be players just wearing down over time, the fact that with time, some coaches get tuned out, the petty looking Alex G decisions, and seemingly getting less than full value for Jimmy G.
To be sure, I think it's entirely possible that all of this will blow over and that Bill will have the team FULLY in his control and we'll be back to 12-4, 13-3 and a SB birth. No one should be shocked if what always happens, happens again.
But the recent decisions, when combined with the already existing challenge presented by team building in the salary cap/parity era, could contribute to the end being near.
I know that many will say that there's nothing to worry about, these kinds of doubts come up every year, and will point to other decisions Bill made that did not result in any slippage whatsoever. Burkhead and Ebner re-upping are positive signs. A guy like Jordy Nelson seemingly wants in. Sherman wanted in.
But, still, the present circumstances seem different to me and we have never been in an environment where a good amount of people thought the HC's decision making played a key role in a SB loss. That is virgin territory for this team. Yeah, people had issues with the 4th and 13 call in SB 42 but that was on a long list of things that went wrong that day. If David Tyree doesn't....blech. Here, the Bulter call is the first factor on the minds of many as to why they lost. Whether that's fair or right is irrelevant in that the perception is there and I would be surprised if it's not shared by a bunch of the players.
TS - outstanding take.
I've long appreciated your work on this board --- well done.
I feel the same as you --- I'm not sure if BB will continue as the Pied Piper of Foxboro.
Do I hope I'm wrong?....no doubt. But so much feels strange post SB.
I've long appreciated your work on this board --- well done.
I feel the same as you --- I'm not sure if BB will continue as the Pied Piper of Foxboro.
Do I hope I'm wrong?....no doubt. But so much feels strange post SB.
I think TS is internalizing his dislike of the Butler move. Reality is that the players have likely moved on. Even most fans outside of the SoSH bubble have done so.
For all of the doom and gloom, take a look at the current depth chart as posted by Reiss
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4812189/how-patriots-depth-chart-looks-after-free-agent-defections
And remember that it is March 15.
They could field a pretty damn good team TODAY if they had to.
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4812189/how-patriots-depth-chart-looks-after-free-agent-defections
And remember that it is March 15.
They could field a pretty damn good team TODAY if they had to.
I wanted to revive this thread because I had a feeling there would be some good, balanced takes in a season that has lacked them. I think it’s possible that both sides could be right here: that perhaps there is some tension between the team/Brady and Belichick – and that they will work their way through it.
It was always clear that the end of this run would pose some difficult challenges. But I think most people thought they would start with Brady – in particular that the team would have to tell him that he was done and he might refuse. to step aside. Instead, #199 beat expectations ... again.
That part we know. What we maybe didn’t expect was that Belichick could be the one running out of gas. Yes, we knew he didn’t want to “be Marv Levy” and that he was capable of making strategic mistakes.
But I’m not sure anyone even on this board thought Belichick could ever “lose the team” after Tom Jackson and 2003, much less after the second (or third?) act in 2014 and 2016. Yet here we are, little over a year after the greatest Super Bowl in history wondering whether the grind of running this perfect machine year-in and year-out—constructing the roster out of low draft picks and castoffs, letting key guys go, keeping the culture consistent...oh and winning lots and lots of football games—could finally be wearing on him. Or, if his act could be wearing on them, the players.
There is still far too little actual evidence to know whether that is the case. But if there is one thing I do know it’s not to count any of these guys out. There is simply too large of a sample size with this team to do thay. Those who do do so at their own peril.
It was always clear that the end of this run would pose some difficult challenges. But I think most people thought they would start with Brady – in particular that the team would have to tell him that he was done and he might refuse. to step aside. Instead, #199 beat expectations ... again.
That part we know. What we maybe didn’t expect was that Belichick could be the one running out of gas. Yes, we knew he didn’t want to “be Marv Levy” and that he was capable of making strategic mistakes.
But I’m not sure anyone even on this board thought Belichick could ever “lose the team” after Tom Jackson and 2003, much less after the second (or third?) act in 2014 and 2016. Yet here we are, little over a year after the greatest Super Bowl in history wondering whether the grind of running this perfect machine year-in and year-out—constructing the roster out of low draft picks and castoffs, letting key guys go, keeping the culture consistent...oh and winning lots and lots of football games—could finally be wearing on him. Or, if his act could be wearing on them, the players.
There is still far too little actual evidence to know whether that is the case. But if there is one thing I do know it’s not to count any of these guys out. There is simply too large of a sample size with this team to do thay. Those who do do so at their own peril.
All things considered, and good health assumed, do the Patriots enter the 2018 season as a Super Bowl contender? I think we'd all answer 'yes' to that question. But I don't know how any Patriots fan could watch the end of 'Tom vs. Time' and hear tom's and Gisele's comments, realize that the team no longer has a very good young quarterback who could step in right away for Tom, and not be very concerned about the future of this team beyond 2018. Having an All-World quarterback locked up on a team-friendly deal has been a hell of an advantage in building a team. Now that Brady has come to realize that he is not immune from Belichick's 'everyone is replaceable' mindset, I highly doubt that he signs another below-market deal, if he continues to play beyond this contract at all.
Not only is everyone replaceable, everyone HAS to be replaced. Of course it’s the twilight — unless you think QBs can play at a high level for 25 years and coaches can coach for 50. Or unless you’re sunny about Bob/Jonathan pulling two new GOATs out of there asses. There is going to be a falloff.
When the Patriots have the modern day equivalent of Steve Young on their roster, we can sensibly discuss a Part II that will be shorter and less historic than Part I. But meanwhile, let’s enjoy the next year or two — it’s not likely to be five.
This is an emotional exercise, not an analytical one. The calendar is undefeated. The last couple months have been about coming to terms with football mortality.
When the Patriots have the modern day equivalent of Steve Young on their roster, we can sensibly discuss a Part II that will be shorter and less historic than Part I. But meanwhile, let’s enjoy the next year or two — it’s not likely to be five.
This is an emotional exercise, not an analytical one. The calendar is undefeated. The last couple months have been about coming to terms with football mortality.
Another point — this discussion of trading Gronk, and the insane notion of trading Brady, is Alice-in-Wonderland material.
The team has never taken the proverbial “step back” since the millennium turned. It has not been in GFIN mode, but it has certainly not deliberately weakened itself in any year in a material way.
So a couple months after trading JG away, they are gonna start now? When you have, realistically 2 maybe 3 years of vintage Brady left, maybe fewer?? For a 2019 first round pick (Gronk), to prove a fucking point, because they parted ways with Lawyer Milloy and others??? Please.
The team has never taken the proverbial “step back” since the millennium turned. It has not been in GFIN mode, but it has certainly not deliberately weakened itself in any year in a material way.
So a couple months after trading JG away, they are gonna start now? When you have, realistically 2 maybe 3 years of vintage Brady left, maybe fewer?? For a 2019 first round pick (Gronk), to prove a fucking point, because they parted ways with Lawyer Milloy and others??? Please.
There is only one way that Gronk is getting traded, and that is if his agent comes in and demands one, and then only if the Pats can get a literal haul in return. Otherwise, they would be better off calling the bluff and letting Gronk walk away from $9M. Gronk's agent knows this.
Brady is not getting traded; both Krafts have already said as much. Belichick knows this.
BB and Caserio have earned the benefit of the doubt. If you think about losing Butler and Lewis, those were players that they picked off the scrap heap and integrated into their system. Who is to say they cannot do that again?
I made this point yesterday. We had never heard of these guys as of a couple years ago. And Amendola only became coveted due to his 3rd amazing postseason with the Pats.
Solder is a loss. But the rest of the roster looks fine to me right now. They need to find a LT.
Solder may be a loss -- but the team did okay with Cannon and Vollmer when he tore his bicep in 2015. True, Brady almost died in the AFCCG that year but I have doubts as to whether Solder would have made much of a difference. That Denver team had one of the five best defenses I've ever watched. So while I get why Curran thinks replacing Solder could be challenging, I also could imagine them sliding Cannon over to LT and Thuney to RT and them surviving just fine.
Agreed. Amendola was awesome but Edelman is a better player and has the same rapport with Brady and clutch gene. We’ll see how the ACL injury impacts him but I’m expecting him to be pretty solid.
Lewis is a loss but Burkhead/White/Gillislee is a solid group and they will likely add to it (or subtract Gillislee and add someone else).
Butler is another loss but his play wasn’t good last year so replacing 2017 Butler shouldn’t be that difficult.
In the end, it’s all about finding an OT who won’t get Brady killed and figuring out a way to add more difference makers on defense either through FA or the draft.
I’m optimistic about the roster construction. This happens every year in FA in every city where players rush out of the door — fans get disappointed and scared. Fans are pissed in DC even though Washington has not been a big spender in FA for a good long time.
For most fans, the happiest moments are (a) when their team signs a big name free agent in the offseason; and (b) when said big name free agent finally leaves.
IMO last offseason the Pats entered GFIN mode. The Cooks, Ealy, trades and Gilmore, Allen, Burkhead acquistions seemed to personify a short-term loading up to cash-in on a closing Brady window.
I'm optimistic that the Pats with Brady are a play-off team coming out of the AFC East. But you can't coach-up 3rd rounders to 1st rounders, or old to young, forever. As already posted there is a price to pay for the many draft misses (and those stolen) over the past few years, and the bill is coming due.
I'm optimistic that the Pats with Brady are a play-off team coming out of the AFC East. But you can't coach-up 3rd rounders to 1st rounders, or old to young, forever. As already posted there is a price to pay for the many draft misses (and those stolen) over the past few years, and the bill is coming due.
I still think they are front runners to make the SB out of the AFC, but it appears that the rest of the league, particularly.the NFC, is gaining significant ground on them.
I'm not "worried", but there are a number of weird red flags I am seeing, not the least of which being the failure of TB to reneg, like he usually does w 2 years out, to help create enough cap room to make the Pats FA players.
If Brady wants to renegotiate his contract (again) to free-up cap space, that his decison, but I'd suggest he's done his fair share already to help this team.
IMO he's done his job.
IMO he's done his job.
Yeah that wasn't a criticism at all, just an observation that the dynamic is different.
The dynamic is different for several reasons. For one, Brady is 40 years old. Also the last extension only added 2 more years. There's still 14M in bonus money on the cap for his current deal.
How much money do the Patriots want to push out past 2 years? And how far out?
How much guarantee does Brady want? Does the Cousins fully guarantee deal affect that?
This is not a simple renegotiation if they do one.
And Brady was on the final year of his deal before signing an extension in September in 2010.
Plus his deals have been signed at different times so it's not like he's always signed an extension by now.
How much money do the Patriots want to push out past 2 years? And how far out?
How much guarantee does Brady want? Does the Cousins fully guarantee deal affect that?
This is not a simple renegotiation if they do one.
And Brady was on the final year of his deal before signing an extension in September in 2010.
Plus his deals have been signed at different times so it's not like he's always signed an extension by now.
If Brady does nothing, he will earn $30M over the next 2 years, either from New England or (extremely unlikely) another team. Brady has no reason to settle for any less in guaranteed money, and he, more than any player in the NFL, has earned the right to ask for quite a bit more than that if the team wants to extend him another 2 or 3 years. Has the dynamic changed? Sure. Why? Because it's likely his last and final contract.
About the only tangible benefit Brady gains otherwise from restructuring is protection from a career ending injury in 2018. But he's banked enough coin that he figures he can roll the dice on those odds. It's just hard to find a scenario that meaningfully reduces his cap hit either this year or next.
About the only tangible benefit Brady gains otherwise from restructuring is protection from a career ending injury in 2018. But he's banked enough coin that he figures he can roll the dice on those odds. It's just hard to find a scenario that meaningfully reduces his cap hit either this year or next.
Your last sentence explains in part why I’m not taking the Bedard report at face value.
Yep. I think last year is a great example of why "winning the offseason" isn't what it seems. That's not just because not every acquisition (hello, Kony Ealy) works out -- but also because "winning the offseason" overlooks the potential of guys already on the roster. Reiss cites Flowers as a great example since he didn't play a snap before becoming a dominant player -- this year we have a lot of guys who were in that situation in 2017, including Garcia, Rivers, Cyrus the Virus, as well as players like Thuney who we saw in limited action this year and Mitchell who was great during the previous season.
Will all these guys work out? Of course not. But as guys who are already in the Pats' system, the coaching staff has a much better idea of if they will -- and it's much less likely they'll face some of the chemistry issues we saw last year with guys who are new to the system (such as Gilmore, Britt and Dorsett -- who will also have another year under their belts).
So yeah, it's always great to add talent. But I'd say the odds are close to even that this team is actually better next year than they were in 2017, without even adding anyone else.
Will all these guys work out? Of course not. But as guys who are already in the Pats' system, the coaching staff has a much better idea of if they will -- and it's much less likely they'll face some of the chemistry issues we saw last year with guys who are new to the system (such as Gilmore, Britt and Dorsett -- who will also have another year under their belts).
So yeah, it's always great to add talent. But I'd say the odds are close to even that this team is actually better next year than they were in 2017, without even adding anyone else.
This point from Theo I don’t understand:
Before this year, we did not see Pats talking so openly about being FREE and HAPPY. What that actually means, I don't know, but it's new, I think.
Is he saying current players or players that just left?
Before this year, we did not see Pats talking so openly about being FREE and HAPPY. What that actually means, I don't know, but it's new, I think.
Is he saying current players or players that just left?